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S05.E18: When Everything Seems Wrong

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A lot of people have pointed out about Chelsea talking on the phone while driving. I agree that it isn't the safest thing to do, especially with a child in the car. But, it may be perfectly legal in her state. In my state, you can talk on the phone while driving (does not have to be hands free), but texting is illegal. Not disagreeing with the SAFETY of it at all, but I know around here, people don't realize how unsafe it is because it's something they have always done...they can't possibly be any more distracted while driving, their eyes are still on the road, besides, it's legal! (duh!)


Yeah in my city it is technically illegal to talk on the phone and drive but people do it all the time... I've done it if I need to take an important call, and I don't get how just talking on a cell phone while driving is any more dangerous than having a heated discussion/fight with your passenger, talking to or singing with your kid who is in the back seat, listening to a good audiobook or good music that you're really into--- or podcast that makes you think, etc.-- or just generally being distracted by any kind of talking or even thinking that could take one's attention away from the road. How does the mere of using Bluetooth to talk take away the risk of being too involved in a distracting conversation while on the phone?! In fact, I think studies back me up: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/talking-on-a-cellphone-while-driving-is-risky-but-simpler-distractions-can-also-cause-harm/2014/02/07/49675ce8-8cf2-11e3-95dd-36ff657a4dae_story.html


I get that some people talk on the cell phone by holding it in one hand and there's the argument that both hands should be on the wheel at all times. But that is rarely the case with me or my husband or any of the people I know-- with manual transmissions (which are completely legal and which by nature require the driver to have one of his/her hands on the stick shift instead of the wheel at times), fiddling with the radio, cruise control, gesturing while in conversation with passengers, taking sips of coffee or eating anything... I think it is quite normal for one hand to not be on the wheel and I don't really know of any laws that require both hands to be on the wheel at all times.


I'm not saying that most of these girls including Chelsea couldn't/shouldn't practice better driving safety (especially the kinds of carseats and restraints they use-- or not-- for their kids, ugh), but I just really don't think that talking on the phone while driving in and of itself is any more dangerous than other activities that are lawful. Of course texting is because you have to take your eyes off the road in order to do it (unless you have a text-to-speech feature to both read and respond to any texts), but to me it is the DISTRACTION and the MENTAL STATE that make something dangerous. If I need to have an important conversation with someone then I try never to do it while driving. If a client calls or my husband and I need to decide something important etc. or I feel upset about something then I either make it a point to schedule the phone call at a time when I'm not driving or I pull over and cry into the phone if it's that upsetting. But for general "hey how's your day, what did you do yesterday?" conversations I have no problem talking on my cell phone just like I have no problem talking to my husband IN the car about that kind of stuff when we're on roadtrips or one of us is driving to dinner together or whatever. When I talk on the phone in the car I use my shoulder instead of my hand to hold the phone although I do sometimes use my hand to answer my phone (to call the person, I just use Siri or text to speech). I do have Bluetooth but in my car it's not always reliable in terms of connecting and staying connected. If I'm in an area I know that police often frequent I use speakerphone and just keep the phone in my lap or in one hand down low and again I really don't see how that's any safer but it prevents me from being ticketed from the nanny state who-- as far as I can determine-- have no reason to think that just talking on the phone will make me more likely to have an accident than other things that are completely legal to do in a car (ex., eating, applying makeup, nodding off/falling asleep like Leah has done... sure, these things can LEAD to a ticket for careless driving but they're not illegal in an of themselves, and that's the part I have a problem with.)

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Kali needs to STFU about being separated from her husband for one whole month.  She pushed him to join the Air Force so she could take advantage of the military benefits, and separation is one price you have to pay.  My mother took care of 5 Army Brats while my father was involved with a little thing called World War II, so I have no sympathy for Kali.

I really dislike Kail but I am not sure where everyone is getting that she pushed Javi into the military or into marrying her/having a baby with her (which you didn't say but other posts have). He seemed completely on board with these ideas and some of them sounded as if they came from him. I haven't re-watched the earlier episode but I remember quite clearly that Javi brought up joining the military on his own and said it's a good job with good benefits. (Like many military people, with his education and experience level what else was he going to do that could pay pretty well, be a stable job for as long as he wanted it, and had good benefits?!) I distinctively remember that he was telling Kail about talking to a recruiter AFTER he had already gone to see one and that Kail asked something along the lines of "what branch would you be joining?" and he said the Air Force. He was also really into getting married and kept saying they should do it before he goes to basic training (although she definitely pushed him for a "formal proposal/engagement" and kept putting off the marriage ... I think he would have preferred to just go to the courthouse and get it done even faster/easier), and I am not sure of the conversations leading up to creating/ having Lincoln but there was nothing that stood out to me as showing that Javi didn't want to do that... he did say he wanted to have a baby and always seemed fine with it.


I think that Kail and Javi are basically the same awful people except that Javi has the ability to sometimes come off as a nicer guy (but also likes to play the victim like Kail does, but since we don't him as well/see his parts as much, it's not always as obvious). I think the same exact thing about Jo except that I've been coming around to him more now that he seems really good at letting things that would normally have bothered him (and would bother most people) slide and concentrate on having the best life he can for himself and for Isaac. I think he's a good dad and maybe it's just what he presents to the cameras but he definitely is for whatever reason better at presenting himself well than most of the people in any of the TM franchises so I give him props for that. But he's like Kail in that he's a spoiled, entitled mama's boy who resorted to emotional abuse against her when he couldn't control her and get his way. I used to really hate him in the earlier seasons (and I felt some sympathy for Kail because yeah she was living with his parents but she was still a teenager with a young baby and nowhere else to go so I'm not sure what else she was supposed to do right away and I feel they were really over-controlling and only conditionally loved her. I have a son and when he is a teenager, if he has a girlfriend who is pregnant and who doesn't have anywhere else to go because she has an alcoholic mother and deadbeat father and is still in friggin' high school... if I accepted her into my home and life it would be unconditionally, at least until she was an adult and could be stable and on her feet. I would assume there was a very high possibility that they might break up [and if she had Kail's personality/disposition I might be relieved!] and if I had the means to support her for a while while she figured things out I definitely would. Yes Kail snuck around and lied about Jordan but there's that old saying that says people lie when other people don't want to hear or can't accept the truth. She and Jo had broken up [and it was Jo's decision at first, if I can remember correctly... but in any event at some point Jo was very happy with the fact they had broken up, which is understandable/fine] and it makes sense that a girl that age would meet other guys at work or whatever and start to date them. I wouldn't let her bring them over or have sex at my house or anything but I wouldn't tell her that unless she did exactly what I/my son wanted, she would be homeless basically! I just think that Jo's parents are a huge part of the problem because they were super enmeshed and tried to control the relationship between Jo and Kail when clearly they had gone their separate ways and their response to that was to kick her out if she wanted to have her own life outside of their son who at the time and for whatever reason was being a completely emotionally abusive Ahole.)


With all of the above being said, Kail is definitely awful and I think sadly it's due to her upbringing/parents and she is not likely to change but I do think that both Kail and Jo have taken some positive steps in the right direction and showed some signs of growth recently, so perhaps there is hope. Jordan was the only guy who wasn't just like Kail and that's why I think they didn't last too long. He was smart and got the heck out of Dodge before he could be entrapped by marriage/child/military. Javi not so much! He seemed to willingly walk into and even be a part of the entrapment. Yeah, Kail should not complain that he has to go away for his job for 4 weeks when the job is what she liked about marrying him in the first place. But he seemed to KNOW that and still get involved and even dangle that job/those benefits in front of her so what does he expect? I don't like either one of them and I think they're both purposefully stuck in their misery together.

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Regarding talkig on a cell phone while driving, it's banned in these States:




District of Columbia





New Jersey

New York


Vermont (effective 10/2014)


West Virginia (wait, so Leah is breaking the law???)

In my state it's city/county/municipality(?) specific (I guess the state as a whole hasn't banned it but municipalities can) so one area I'm driving in can have it banned whereas in the next it can be legal... all as I'm driving along ha ha. My city has banned texting but not talking. The next city over has banned texting and talking (but talking while using a handsfree device is okay... I often use my speaker phone in my lap as my 'handsfree device' and I don't know if that counts but knock on wood, in the three years or so that talking on a cellphone without a handsfree device has been banned and that I've done it that way while driving in the next city/suburb over [where my in-laws live, so quite often], I've definitely passed quite a few po-pos and have never gotten pulled over or ticketed for it... and I guess how would they know. I could be talking to myself or my husband or to my child in the backseat etc.]

Edited by GuiltyPleasureTV
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Gabriel is Jenelle's sister's kid. From the amount of time he spends at Barb's I'm wondering if she has custody of him as well.

I can't imagine Chelsea's house was all that expensive. The exterior is beautiful but the interior had really cheap finishes. If the house was around 200k, she could easily afford that with TM money. However once that's gone I'm sure Randylicious will be footing the mortgage.

The cousin could be there part-time if Babs watches him while his parents work, or he could be there as a full-time situation like with Jace, hard to say I guess.

My father in law watches our son on the week days while hubby and I work. We both work from home (until next week anyway... husband just got a 20 hour a week consulting job where he will have to be at their office) and have our own businesses so the hours can really vary. Right now I'm a part-time SAHM/part-time WAHM (but not the kind of work that one can do with a toddler around... if any such work exists) so I spend most mornings with my son and take him to playdates or the park or library story hours etc. (and sometimes my husband joins us) and then my son goes to his grandpa's house most (but not all) afternoons.


Some evenings if my husband or I work late or have any adult-only events like networking engagements or even sometimes dinner or happy hour with friends who might be having a birthday or a get-together or whatever, our son stays at Grandpa's until later in the evening and then we put him to bed. Most evenings he's with us but not every evening. I guess what I'm saying is that if I had a film crew following me around it could look like my son lives with his grandpa/is always there at any hour but that's not really the case, as I actually see him more than parents who work full-time see their kids, since I spend most mornings with him as well as most evenings, and most of the weekends. (He does occasionally go to my husband's mother's house-- his dad and mom don't live together-- on a Saturday or Sunday but since my MIL works full-time she probably has him at her house for a few hours every other weekend at the very most... usually 1 or 0 weekends a month... and we do family events together as my husband's mom has a large family in the area and everyone likes to get together and my son can play with my husband's cousin's kids.)

While Grandpa watches our son quite a bit it's still not as many hours as if he was in full-time daycare (due to the fact that I only work part-time) and due to his bond with his grandfather and the fact that it's free/cheaper (we've offered to pay but my husband's dad refuses so we just treat him to dinner frequently and gift cards occasionally on any kind of holiday and such), it's a good situation for us. (Unlike Babs my father in law is retired. I guess Jace and Gabriel are at daycare when Babs is working at Walmart so I'm not sure what hours both kids are actually there or what hours MTV is over there filming.)  


So anyway I am unsure as to whether Gabriel lives with Babs or just over there a lot while his parents work/ take a break/do whatever without him. (I'm not trying to say that judgmentally-- my husband and I definitely appreciate time to ourselves or as a couple when one of his parents or even one of our friends have offered to watch our son. I think we have a very strong marriage and one reason is that we've been able to take the time to focus on ourselves and each other instead of JUST our son. I'm really grateful for his family [most of mine suck and I moved away a long time ago] and while I definitely have issues with Babs' parenting/guardianship of Jace I think Janelle should be much more grateful for her involvement!])  I've read/heard that Babs has 2 or 3(?) other kids who are often in jail and/or bipolar so it's very likely that it's another Janelle situation, with Gabriel always being there. :(

Kailyn's scarf - it must have to do with breastfeeding. She's nursing a lot on this show. I don't remember if Isaac was nursed much or at all (I remember Jo and Kailyn fighting about the formula bottle in the microwave!). Even though she's not using the scarf to cover anything, it looks more normal from the neck up. The scene I noticed it in, she was wearing a button down shirt, and had it unbuttoned. So it wasn't as obvious that she was partially naked. I have no problem with public nursing, I'm just pointing out why MTV might have been into the scarf idea.



I think at some point Kailyn got really into the natural birthing/parenting movement. She asked her doctor about taking the placenta home to encapsulate it into pills to take, which helps with PPD and nutrition after birth and which is a thing that I and a lot of my friends have done but the doctor looked at her like she had two heads. (Granted I didn't have my first child until 2013 and by then it was all the rage so maybe Kailyn was on the cutting edge of it and her doctor hadn't heard of it yet?) I'm pretty sure she was aiming for and perhaps successfully had a natural birth because her labor scenes showed her standing up and bending over while Javi massaged her back etc... which one can't do while on an epidural. So it follows that she would be really into breastfeeding. You're right, I can't remember what happened with Isaac in terms of breastfeeding but I do remember some formula scenes so I don't think she breastfed for long if at all. Breastfeeding can be hard work and I don't care/judge how any mom chooses to feed her baby but I give major props to any mom who is committed to making breastfeeding work as I personally believe there are many natural benefits to both mom and baby.

Edited by GuiltyPleasureTV
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I agree. I don't think Chelsea or Aubrey need to move. She's finally gotten off her butt & finished school & was working. I think she needs the support system emotionally that she gets from both her parents. They also babysit for her when needed. I get that her dad should stop supporting her financially but I can't be mad at her for having a great relationship with him that goes beyond money. You can see that they have a loving & wonderful friendship on top of a dad/daughter one. Her mother is close to her too. She's very lucky to have 2 parents, even though they are divorced who she can be so open & close with. I could never do that with my mother. 

I agree!


My parents suck and I have limited contact with them because everything is about THEM, nothing is about me ever at all and never has been. I'm in my 30's but if my parents were there for me for emotional or financial support I would gladly take them up on it. I don't NEED... I have a husband and I'm a professional career woman who had a law degree by age 25... but it sure would be nice!


Sometimes I think people who pick on Chelsea's support from her dad are just jealous. I certainly am but I'm honest enough to admit it. She got pregnant by a complete deadbeat and jack-A at age 16. Sure, that was not a good decision on her part but what were her parents supposed to do once it happened? (I'm very pro-choice but many would condemn/judge her if she had wanted to have an abortion. That's besides the point because from what I've seen it was her CHOICE to have the baby.) What is so wrong with having parents who support her AND her daughter? It seems to me that her father is quite frustrated with her at points but continues to help her out because 1) she's his daughter and 2) what would it mean for Aubree if he didn't? If Chelsea weren't on MTV (I do kind of wonder what her dad originally thought of that idea?!) and didn't have her parents' support than she and Aubree would likely be on welfare (which many people also condemn and get judgmental about. I don't understand why people seem to judge and condemn pretty much any possible option!)


I'm not nearly as much as a Chelsea fan as many viewers are. I find her whiny, immature and annoying. But what would any of us do if our 16 year old daughter got pregnant and took quite a while to mature to a place where she was able to fully support herself and our grandchild? I'm pretty sure we would help her out! At least I know I would. Chelsea doesn't seem to be the "type" for college... she is smart in some ways but not academically, she doesn't have good self-esteem (and I don't know the reason for that but it's been lacking since we met her at age 16 so I have to say her parents and/or their relationship or lack thereof has a good deal to do with it, or she is just naturally like that), and she was so freaked out about passing her GED and then her makeup license or whatever it is... clearly she could not have survived in a college/academic environment and not everyone can or even should (there are lots of college graduates without jobs!) So I'm glad she finally seems to be finding her way to support herself better and I really don't think she could have done it without Randy's help and probably her mom's to some extent except that her mom seems pretty whack to me. If Chelsea had Dawn or Babs or Farrah's mom for her parents then she would never be doing as well as she is. (I'm surprised Farrah is doing as well as she is with that mom of hers... and I'm sad that Sofia will probably be the same as Farrah if not worse). 

I think that some people are quick to condemn anyone who uses the safety social net but also quick to condemn them from having the support of their family. Randy as a dentist clearly has extra money to drop on Chelsea and Aubree and clearly wants to (I have only ever heard him complain when he was having to foot Adumb's bills... understandably so!), so who cares. Taxpayers are not supporting her lifestyle (That's all MTV and Randylicious). It's good for Chelsea AND especially Aubree to have the emotional and financial support of as many people who love them as they can. I really do not understand the sour grapes. I guess it has something to do with the conservative "bootstrap" culture that thinks anyone who starts off poor as dirt should be able to make it and anyone who starts off with a supportive and financially well-off family shouldn't ever accept the benefits that come from being from family like that. In my opinion neither view is based on reality and it makes perfect sense that a dad who has the emotional and financial support for a daughter and grandchild would give it in a heartbeat, yet people are acting like Chelsea should "repay" him for his kindness by moving far away from him and separating Aubree from what is clearly a very loving relationship with her grandfather. Huh?!

Despite everything I just said, I DO think Chelsea would likely enjoy living in a bigger/better place than small town SD (I would hate to live there!), which she herself has expressed, and which would probably be good for her makeup career AND her independence. So I'm not against her doing it, and in fact I'm in favor of it, but I just think the disdain about Randy helping Chelsea out is unwarranted. I am very glad he is there for Chelsea and Aubree. And while he didn't prefer that they move away when Chelsea was talking about it during her time at that hair school, he clearly seemed to know he needed to accept it and would work with it. That is not the attitude of a smothering/co-dependent parent like Farrah's parents. That is the attitude of a dad who would prefer to have his adult daughter and young granddaughter close but who also knows that reality happens, they may not always want to live there (I certainly couldn't wait to escape the small town I was raised in!) and that he will still be there for them no matter where they are. I think it is a very loving and good relationship and I'm glad that Chelsea finally got some sense in her head and is listening to what Randy says. None of it seems off base or too enmeshed for me.

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