Season 9 Episodes Talk

[IndependentMind]

Yeah they did but compared to the ratings in the past two episodes, it slipped.

"Criminal Minds (9.8 mil/2.3) slipped 7 and 12 percent and CSI (9.1 mil/1.7) dipped a tenth".

[Old Dog]

I think what you term as negating is really just frustration at how they are taking the show to a whole new direction and bringing characters to the fore who don't have the presence to be there. There has been a distinct lack of the key characters of Hotch, Reid and Rossi this season - although Reid has had some nice moments. And Blake has never really been given the scripts to show any development of her character. I get really frustrated with it so for me the negative aspects outweigh the positives. With this episode, there was little to commend at all sadly - and yet I can see that the idea of the story might have made a decent episode in the hands of a better and more experienced writer. This season just seems skewed out of kilter in favour of JJ, Garcia and Morgan - all of whom are in my view only average actors at best whereas the real talent is underused. It is frustration - and yet I like to think I review positively when it is merited - there have been 3 or 4 stand out episodes so far and I have commented on those positively.

[IndependentMind]

I'm always torn on ratings issues. On one hand, I obviously want the show to do well enough to continue on (...and on...and on!), but that's more about my hope that the show will return to some of what I once loved about S1-S4 than because I particularly like what the show has actually been giving us in recent seasons. And getting consistently high ratings seems to indicate to The Powers That Be that they're totally on the right track, so why would they ever have any motivation to reassess the current tone of the show and do things differently?

And while I'm not usually someone who allows my dislike of one character to ruin an overall show for me, I'm honestly not sure how much longer I want to keep watching if we get such a heavy emphasis on JJ. She's IMO a boring, flat, unlikable character played by a poor actress, and I can honestly say that the more we see of her, the less I like her, which I'm guessing is not what the writers are going for.

 

No necessarily. High ratings doesn't usually mean they are doing something right, it just means it's been around for 9 years and fans just watch it out of habit;. But if you compare the ratings since EM took over they don't compare to the ratings to the ratings they had pre season 6. The ratings have significantly dropped each year and yeah, we will have an episode now and then when the ratings will be high like "200" which I attribute to Paget's return. But they are not consistent.

Some fans i know online have checked out of CM. They will DVR when MGG is directing but other than that, they don't watch it anymore. I am one of them. I will watch it every now and then but it is no longer a must for me. 

Regarding ratings also, one is "The Blacklist". The writing on that show is awful. The lead actress is awful but the main attraction is James Spader. 

There are shows like "Hannibal" whose cast and writing is brilliant. OMG! It is the one of the best shows on tv. Everything about this show is great but the ratings suck.

[IndependentMind]

Regarding this episode, what exactly are they trying to accomplish here by making JJ say the things she said to Morgan?

[Wilowy]

Well, the publicity department titled the promo clip for that scene "JJ gives Morgan some tough-love."

I think if that's what they were shooting for, they completely chose the wrong person to do that. Someone else mentioned that it should have been Reid to talk to him, and I agree. Reid, while still quietly grieving himself, would've been in a prime position to talk to Morgan about appreciating what you have, while you have it. Poor boo.

[IndependentMind]

Harry Bing can boasts all he wants about last night's ratings but to get less than 10 million viewers that used to be unheard of from CM.

And that less than 10 millions viewers has happened three times this season already. Last year, the lowest was 10.0M. Season 7 the lowest was 12.41M.

The only time it hit 12M was "200". 12 M used to be the average and now, if they are lucky, they hot that many viewers. So yeah, the viewership is dwindling. And please don't say it's DVR, because they had DVR even then and they were not even up against any specials last night. 

Well, the publicity department titled the promo clip for that scene "JJ gives Morgan some tough-love."

I think if that's what they were shooting for, they completely chose the wrong person to do that. Someone else mentioned that it should have been Reid to talk to him, and I agree. Reid, while still quietly grieving himself, would've been in a prime position to talk to Morgan about appreciating what you have, while you have it. Poor boo

In my opinion, they thought this would make JJ seem funny and cool, but AJ's horrible acting did the opposite. 

.

Edited April 10, 2014 by IndependentMind

[Wilowy]

Even Reid couldn't believe the shit JJ said.

[IndependentMind]

Bwahahaha. That made me laugh out loud Willowy.

[ForeverAlone]

Since this was Ticona Joy’s first Criminal Minds episode, I will grade her on a curve, and say it was better than some of the stories from experienced writers this year. I’m looking at you Breen and your execrable “The Inspiration” and Rick Dunkle in the worst episode of the series “200”. The basic idea of the storyline was interesting. I just think there were some gaps in logic and plausibility.

I don’t mind some good old fashioned revenge as a plotline, nor do I mind a female unsub extracting revenge for her sister’s gang rape. Her motivation was interesting, and the story felt relevant to some of the real life cases we have heard about in recent years. I was glad they didn’t reveal who the unsub was until after the team gave the profile.

However, there were some definite leaps in logic. Maybe I missed it in the beginning, but I didn’t hear how the circumstances for all three of the disappearances were known by the local police. We knew and the team knew the circumstances of the third abduction, because we saw it and there was a survivor who could report what she witnessed. But were there some sort of witnesses to the first two abductions? Otherwise, how did they know they were connected and the unsub wore a pig mask for all three abductions? Or did they just assume they were all connected, even though the age and gender of the victims differed greatly?

I liked that Morgan was able to deduce that the unsub could be a woman based on the fact that she subdued them with a Taser (though it was JJ who first made that suggestion) and she used acid to torture her victims. But what I never felt was adequately explained was how Sheila was able to move these victims. Three of the victims were large men, and the unsub was rather petite. Unless she possessed the strength of Buffy or had a forklift readily available, I don’t see how she could maneuver these men into her vehicles and string them up. They either would have been fighting her and hard to subdue, or they would be unconscious and dead weight. I am willing to suspend disbelief, but only so much, and there are simple laws of physics at play here.

Likewise, even though I liked Reid in his one meaningful scene, the cognitive interview felt almost TOO specific. I know Jim Clemente has said in the past that the show doesn’t depict cognitive interviews accurately, but the supposed level of recall on this interview stretched the bounds of credulity even for this show. But I guess they needed to move the plot along somehow.

Even though we didn’t see the unsub until after the profile (which is much better than seeing the unsub in the opening scene that happens all too often), I personally would have preferred to see the team unravel the case purely from their end and not see any of Sheila’s interactions with Lauren or the victims, except maybe in a flashback after they knew more about what was going on. I would prefer to learn about the case and the unsub through the eyes and experiences of the team, and not know more than they do. This is a common refrain for most episodes though, and nothing unique to this one. Overall, it was interesting to watch how the team tracked down Lauren’s rape and Sheila’s motivation for her crimes, plus her choice of victims. We had one good Hotch and Rossi interrogation scene. They really do work well tag teamed together. And it was nice to see Hotch contributing more with the team.

I didn’t even mind Morgan and Savannah. I personally have no issues with personal scenes, IF, and this is a big IF, they are done well. Some of my favorite moments from earlier seasons were the personal scenes, because it made me learn more about the characters, that they weren’t just props, but almost like real people I grew to care about. My issue with later personal scenes (really season seven and beyond) is that SOME (though not all) of the personal scenes have an icky, cloying feel to it. I can almost feel the saccharine syrup dripping from those scenes, and they take me out of the Criminal Minds world and into some gooey fairy tale and hit me over the head with whatever they are trying to convey rather than feeling like authentic interactions between individuals. But I did not feel like that with Morgan and Savannah. They seem cute together, and I think they have good chemistry. Criminal Minds has tackled personal relationships since the very first episode, and when the relationships feel real, I enjoy it. Even though both have demanding jobs, it is understandable there will still be some tension on both sides from constantly being called away. Hell, if I had a job that had me on call so much, I’d feel the same way.

Now for my one big complaint. You know how when you dislike something, you are more likely to key in on that and notice it more? I’m like that with JJ this season. As I have mentioned before, I hit my saturation point with JJ earlier this season, and now it’s like I have an allergic reaction when she is on screen too much. That was VERY true for this episode. JJ was prominent in eight different scenes. How did this team ever survive without her superior profiling presence in the past? We had JJ and Morgan questioning the surviving victim.; JJ and Alex in interrogation room; JJ and Morgan at the hospital; JJ and Morgan at Sheila’s house; JJ and Alex in another interrogation room; JJ and others in the big team deduction scene; JJ and Morgan (Rossi was basically a prop) in the big rescue scene. And worst of all, we had JJ and Morgan on the plane dissecting his reluctance to commit. Was JJ just applying some tough love to Morgan by saying he either needs to work it out or end up alone, or is she really that icy on the inside? And I could have lived without hearing JJ channeling Morgan in Morgan-speak. That was just some very odd writing and a very odd delivery.

There were parts of the story I liked, but it was undone by some gaps in plausibility and TOO MUCH JJ (for me anyway).

Edited April 10, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[Wilowy]

Moved a few posts to the new "What Other..." thread.

[normasm]

On this episode, my other gripe about the series lately, I was trying to add up all the female serial killers they have had in the last, oh, say 3 years. I can't even remember. Female serial killers comprise less than one per cent in any given year. CM has had many serial or spree killers who are female. This annoys me, and I suspect it comes as a result of people whining, Mandy Pantinkin-like, that the violence against women in a show that is supposed to reflect reality is too awful, and oh, shield our eyes! 

The fact is men usually are the serial killers, whether alone or in a duo or a pack. Women who kill usually do so only when pressed by circumstance by someone they know. Like, a husband or boyfriend. Like, in self-defense.

Edited April 10, 2014 by normasm

[Racbec]

I am waiting for the episode that shows the unsub going free because he or she is caught because the team relies on Garcia's illegal search. I get that sometimes a victim's life is at stake and there is a decision to risk using such info, but the only time I remember the issue being addressed was the episode early on where the soccer player was kidnapped and was being held in the unsub's home. They went in without a warrant and were worried because they would not have been able to use the evidence they found if the girl wasn't there. Because she was, they argued that the girl was in danger and they didn't have time to get a warrant in time to save her life so the search was valid. These days, in almost every episode Garcia looks at people's bank records, medical records, employment records, etc., all without the consent of the person and without a subpoena.

[ForeverAlone]

Oh I remember tearing the show apart in season six for "25 to Life" for the very same thing. It was utterly ridiculous, and when Strauss is the voice of reason, you know your plan is half-cocked. In any case, Morgan did something that was incredibly stupid, probably illegal, and the arrest and anything gathered from it would probably be thrown out in court. All because he didn't obtain a warrant (because there wasn't enough evidence mind you).

In the past, there was also a pretense that Penelope couldn't readily access HIPAA information. I think it was specifically addressed in The Fox for instance. But nowadays, something like legalities, probable cause, and adhering to the 4th Amendment don't really seem to apply to a law enforcement agency. Of course this current crop of writers seem to glorify the team for "going rogue" and writing scenarios that practically cheerlead them into those situations (200 again). 

[Wilowy]

Moved the twitter discussion to The Bullpen...

[zannej]

I remember when Garcia actually used to feel guilty about invading people's privacy but now she doesn't seem to care about that. But then she used to not get as upset about some of the gore. Things have changed, but not for the better.

On Garcia's computer access, I wish they would mention that there are databases of info on individual people that are sold to marketers and election mongers. Google and other companies keep tabs on what people enter and what sort of stuff they search for and that is all compiled in a database and people who want to use that info to cold-call people with election crap. Apparently it is illegal to view that info in Virginia though. (Based on your internet searches, the companies try to determine if you are liberal or conservative and aim ads at you based on their assumptions).

I wish I'd had the chance to write down my thoughts on this episode shortly after watching it. I actually liked some things about it.

I liked that we saw the pig mask and didn't see the unsub right away. The image of the pig-mask face shushing the victims actually worked for me. When the unsub went to pull down the pants of one of the victims I could tell it was a woman from the size, and also wondered just what she was doing. I thought there was going to be some Lorena Bobbet action going on. I wish that the mask had been kept on and that we had not seen the face until they figured out just who it was and that they'd found another way to reveal that there was a young woman on a respirator.

I did like the bit where it showed Reid standing next to the witness at the party during the cognitive interview. I do agree with others that it was too much detail that he remembered. If anyone were to try that with me, it wouldn't work. 

While I don't care for relationship drama, I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't just Savannah being upset about Morgan not being around-- it was a specific thing of him canceling every time he was supposed to meet her parents. That made sense. I mean, on one hand she intellectually understood but on the emotional side, it was frustrating. Morgan came off as an ass with the telling her if she wants to leave him to go ahead or whatever. 

Someone pointed out that JJ was still front-and-center and was paired with most of the other team members for various scenes. This meant less screentime for some of the other members. I must be in the minority because I actually liked JJ trying to do an impression of Morgan and failing at it. That is something real people do. She just sucks at impressions and I felt that she actually was caring and trying to be a good friend-- even if the whole thing about being alone forever seemed harsh. She had a valid point. If he doesn't pull his head out of his ass he will end up alone.

However, I wish it had been someone other than JJ that talked to him. I wish someone other than JJ had noticed that he was distracted. Rossi or Reid should have noticed. Garcia is more likely to be the one to give him relationship advice because she's just that nosy and into his business. I guess because JJ is currently the only one of the team who is still married, they thought she could be the only one. 

IMO, I wish that Reid had confronted Morgan and said he was distracted and asked if he was OK. Then someone else could have overheard and butted in. and JJ could have piped in and done the impression and gotten cringes from the other co-workers.

Btw, did anyone else notice Hotch scowling at the paperwork he was reading on the plane at the end? For some reason that made me laugh.

I think some of the conclusions they reached were too far off, Garcia's computer access is creepy again, and it had room for improvement. Overall, for a writer's first attempt I think it turned out fairly well.

[normasm]

Yeah, zannej it should have been Ried, with no stupid aping of Morgan's style of speaking. Reid could have gently pointed out, as he did to Alex, that he had a good thing in his hand, and that was worth anything else in the bush. 

[zannej]

Medication can make a difference. I know a few people with schizophrenia and the difference between on meds and off meds is night and day. One person got down to under 90lbs because she was too paranoid to eat but after getting on meds she is now well over 200lbs and seems very "normal". Another person was telling me about how she tried all sorts of different medications and each had different side effects until she finally found one that worked for her. Yet another was always somewhat off even when on medication-- due to having Aspergers-- but when she went off her meds she was a total basket case.

I could see the doctors having found something that helped with Diana's symptoms well enough to keep her lucid enough for certain lengths of time but that it would not work 100% of the time. 

If we fanwank that perhaps Reid's father took up some more responsibility for Diana's care to give Reid some relief, perhaps the father could have approved of the trip. I don't know if Reid would have allowed his father that kind of control though. I wish we could find out if he's on speaking terms with his father at all.

[normasm]

Zannej, in the US at least, people who are declared incompetent and placed in a mental institution against their will, which happened to Reid's mom by his action, cannot act on their own, nor can their guardianship be transfered to anyone on a whim, not her doctor, not William Reid. This isn't fanwank, it's reality. Even if they find meds that work to keep her lucid 100% of the time, she will still not become competent in the eyes of the law. Changing her guardianship would take a legal procedure and Reid, as her guardian, would either be instigating it or fighting it. William Reid has no control over Diana, even if he pays the bills, which we've never been told he contributes a cent. So, I can't cut slack for this kind of wild stupidity of the writers and researchers. 

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah me either. The whole Diana subplot strikes me as the icky sweet, cloying family moments that don't ring true or is grounded in reality. It wants to elicit some sort of sweet moment from us, and it is hitting us over the head with it. In the past, the show seems to have had a more realistic approach to Diana and schizophrenia, but that was last addressed in season four, so it's not surprising this is what we ended up with. Maybe this was their ham-handed way of closing the door on Diana, by saying that she is getting better and out living her life and therefore doesn't need to be mentioned or shown again. This was probably in response to the continued fan push to bring back Diana. This is their answer- that it's not needed. It's one of the reasons I was so pissed at what JJ said to Reid at the end, like all is well and he should be happy he doesn't have to the caregiver in the relationship anymore, because Diana is doing well and out living her life. Diana has had schizophrenia for over 30 years, and for the past 14 years she has been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric facility, and Reid is her conservator. One doesn't magically recover to the point of the prolonged lucidity the show wants to insinuate. Hell, it was even said in season one that schizophrenia is a lifelong illness, and it tends to only get worse as people get older. And since there isn't some actual drug in reality that has produced these sorts of miracle cures, I can't really get on board with that stupid fantasy.

Edited April 13, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[Wilowy]

If they're trying to craft some fantasy, then why does the drug have to be a reality? 

I loved the whole Grand Canyon thing. The way Matthew acted it made it seem as though Reid was genuinely thrilled for her, and I was too. It was nice to see him smile again. It didn't feel anvillicious or heavy-handed to me at all. Penelope's reaction to the tchotchke was natural too, her smile was genuine. 

Another way they could've gone would have been to let us see Reid open it up at his apartment, with a v/o from Jane speaking the letter. That would've been a sweet moment too, and hearkened back to, and contrasted with, his reading Gideon's letter. 

[Old Dog]

I absolutely hated the whole Grand Canyon thing. For me the stories have to be believable - and I do not believe that a woman like Diana would have sent the tourist druck even if there weren't the whole issue of her miraculous improvement and the fact that Reid didn't even know where she was! To me it was another of Messer's dips into Disney and had no place in CM.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Old Dog

[Wilowy]

How was it Disney? I've received fun stuff like that in the mail before so I guess that's why it rang true to me. 

We've yet to see the extent of Diana's improvement, and this makes me curious to see more of her. I can see how one could interpret it as a sort of cap to her story, but to me it just makes me more curious about her and now I want to keep up with any further changes in her condition. 

[Old Dog]

It certainly felt like a cap to me - the happy ending where Diana is miraculously so improved from an invariably degenerative condition that had forced Reid to have her committed. Now Reid doesn't have to worry about her anymore and everything is shiny and sunny. How is this not Disney? Whatever it is, it flies in the face of credibility. I also think it was meant as a cap to shut down all the fans clamouring for Diana to reappear.

[Wilowy]

It seems to me that there are ups and downs (mostly downs - treacly and inappropriate bar toasts notwithstanding), and they decided to show us an 'up'. It was welcome and I enjoyed it. :)

[ForeverAlone]

Ostensibly this show is based in reality. There is an actual BAU and they do actual profiling. Yes, the universe of this show is a bit different (e.g. this BAU has a plane and they go along on tactical raids frequently), but those were specific choices made at the start of the show to expand its storytelling abilities. However this show was grounded in psychological reality. The show got that right, and treated the subject matter with an adult seriousness. And the last few years that has eroded. You now have unsubs whose actions don't fit the supposed psychological makeup (The Replicator). You now have wholly unqualified media liaisons being handpicked to be a wartime interrogator (200). And now we have Diana whose schizophrenia has improved to such a degree she is able to go on field trips and her son and legal guardian doesn't even know it. It absolutely is a Disneyified version of schizophrenia and it belongs in the same treacly category as the bar scene from 200. Because once again the show sacrificed psychological realism for cloying, feel good crap. I absolutely think they wrote it that way to shut up fans about Diana. They have effectively closed the door on any stories involving her, and JJ's words to Reid were so incredibly stupid and completely trivialized everything. So yes, if the show is going to go down this route, I expect it based in reality and on actual advances in the treatment of schizophrenia, and not some fantasy wish to put a Disney ending on this particular story. It is one of the MANY reasons I scoffed at 200. I knew the crap they were spewing wasn't based in reality, so I was not going to accept it as such. And I am not going to accept it here.

[Wilowy]

I am, and do. 

I still love my show and the characters. I'll still yell at it when I feel it's gone too far, like with 200, and even with some parts of the pigfest that was Wednesday... but it remains one of my favorites currently airing. 

News on a writer in The Bullpen, guys.

[normasm]

I love this show, too. I will watch it until it ends, or they tell MGG to take his ball and go home, whichever comes first. The nearly 10-year arc of the writing of this show has gone straight down in the last 3 to 4 years, with a few waves upward that caused those of us faithful to the original premise and approach to feel some hope. I (we, it seems) have the right to call crap as I (we) see it, and you certainly have the right to defend said perceived crap as you see fit. I respect your opinion, but we totally disagree on this.

[JMO]

I've just recently found this forum and hope you don't mind my entering the discussion.

The evolution of a TV series is an interesting process.  At the beginning, as the characters are being formed by both the writers and the actors, we simply take them in and decide what we think of them.  The writers and actors have free rein with what they will do.  And then, at some undefined time, the character is deemed (by us) to be fully formed, and we begin to measure their behaviors on screen against what we would expect of the people they've been written to be. 

For series with consistent writing teams, this can be a seamless process.  But, when there is such overhaul as there has, apparently been with CM (I'm a latecomer, discovered the series through syndication), there is inherent room for the new writers to stray far afield from the characters as they were originally written.  This is often dismissed as 'character growth', when it really represents a misunderstanding of the character by the new writer.

In the case of CM, I think this has, indeed, occurred.  I've had a condensed experience with the series, and can see that there is a marked difference between the original composition of each character, and how they are currently represented.  Similarly, there was an intelligence and, importantly for me, a pathos, that infused the series. The intelligence tries to rear its head from time to time these days, but the pathos is almost completely gone.  We saw a hope-inspiring remnant of it with Reid's reaction to losing Maeve, and the team's reaction to him.  But I have to agree with those who think that the pathos has been lost this season, and I also agree that the whole miswriting of the 'curing' of Diana is the best example of it.  (Totally ignoring the very existence of '200', now and forever).

Reid's relationship with his mother, and Diana's mental illness, were two of the best established 'personal' themes of the show.  To simply dismiss both of them with a miracle cure was, I thought, evidence of writing that just felt immature to me.  As though the writer didn't understand the dynamic, or the importance of it, and was willing to give it all away for a 'cute moment' at the end of the story. 

Or maybe it simply reflected a lack of imagination on the part of the writer (and the whole writing team---I've read that they vet the story lines with each other before proceeding).  They seemed completely nonplussed by not having Jane Lynch on the show.  How hard would it have been to have Reid receive an out-of-the-blue phone call from his mother, to celebrate a new improvement in her mental health?  Just watching his end of the conversation, trusting MGG to come through on the acting end,  would have been priceless. If they couldn't manage that, then just show him frustrated by being too busy to see his mother while in Vegas.  Even simpler, avoid Vegas completely.  Or was the episode set there specifically so they could 'amend' canon?

If CM hadn't ever had its day in the sun, I would certainly not have been moved to create this annoyingly long first comment.  But it did have its day, and it stood head and shoulders above other series  By choice, I will remain hopeful that it can go out the same way.

[normasm]

JMO, your entry was neither too long nor annoying! I'm of the opinion that Erica Messer has not even asked Jane Lynch. The woman thrives on staying busy, I'm sure that she'd love to reprise Diana, but we'll have to "forget" the Grand Canyon subplot...

[missmycat]

Check out this review written by one of the members of this blog. Please note specifically what he has to say about JJ.

http://criminalmindsroundtable.blogspot.com

[mstaken]

with no stupid aping of Morgan's style of speaking.

I'd have been quite happy if that had never made it past the cutting room floor, but I think someone like Reid, Emily or even Elle or Rossi could have pulled off that plane scene in a way that was at least a little less cringe-inducing, both because those characters had at least *some* rapport with Morgan and because the actors are, IMO, capable of teasing people in ways that feel more affectionately playful than bitchy and condescending, which is more than I can say for AJ Cook. Similarly, while I loathed the "...or you'll end up alone!" line, as if, OMG, being single is a fate worse than death, I think other characters could have sounded more genuinely supportive and insightful than just obnoxious and self-superior. AJ Cook makes questionable scenes so much worse than they have to be IMO. I'm starting to understand why the actress was given so little to do for the first several seasons.  

Edited April 15, 2014 by mstaken

[normasm]

I like a lot about what is said, specifically about excising the torture porn in favor of an expanded Reid cog/view with multiple witnesses. Good idea!! Also, the confirmation that they are going in the right direction with Morgan and Savannah. He needs to grow up, but it could have been Reid to point up how much he could lose if he didn't prize her. And the JJ stuff, oh, man. When Prentiss did that imitation of him in Season 7 "sorry doesn't bring it back!", that was funny, not borderline racist. And no, I definitely don't think anyone (not the writer, not the show runners, etc.) would ever intend something like that, it's just, badly written and poorly executed. 

Tell me, because I truly don't know: what other major network show allows amateurs to write a full episode of their major money-making show? CM did it last year with Ed Bernero's son, but, I don't think it's a good idea to put what is essentially an intern out alone with a writing cred on a major network TV show. If they fail, they fail big. But it just reflects on the show runner and all the executive producers when that happens. And I feel for Ticona Joy, she may have talent. But the show runners should never do that with a first-timer. Pair her with a veteran, at the very least...

Edited April 15, 2014 by normasm

[Wilowy]

I don't think we'd have to forget it.

I think a visit with her son would be warm and welcome, and very nice for Reid to see her doing better under her new medication. I want Breen to write it, though.

[zannej]

normasm, from what I've gathered from the writers and what I've been told by someone who used to work in the industry, the writer who's name goes on the script may be the original creator of the script and idea, but that the showrunners and sometimes other writers all get together to discuss it and try to work it in to something that they think should make it on screen. So its not like they are just giving the reins to the writer entirely. Erica Messer basically gets to call the shots and can tell the writer to change things if she doesn't like how it was going. I think that one of the problems with her decisions is that she doesn't recognize when something is bad or won't work so a lot of things get through-- I mean, one of the worst scenes in the history of the show was written by Messer (the Morgan slow-clap scene from "25 to Life").

I liked the review on the round table. I'd forgotten about Savannah insisting that she gets to drive. I like her.She's sassy without being bitchy.

[Wilowy]

This is what Virgil had to say when I asked him about the writing process on CM:

"Alcohol! Red wine! No, let me take you through the show’s writing process. There’s a rotation, if you watch the show regularly you can see the rotation. When you are up, I try to come to the table with no less than three ideas, between three and five, though I usually don’t get past two… pitch an idea, and Erica Messer or Janine (Sherman-Barrois, our other Executive Producer) say ‘Okay let’s go with that idea.’ The writer then writes a paragraph and submits it to the network and studio for approval. Then as a group we break the story and put it on the board.  And once every beat is on the board we pitch to Messer. Then the writer goes away and writes an outline. Then the writer gets notes from the entire room.  Then after that the writer goes away with all the notes and does a draft.  After that its another round of notes from the room, then the writer goes off and re-writes the draft.  Then you get notes from the studio and network.  Then you shoot it!  This current writing team, after working three years together, has a strong, effective shorthand and it goes with the procedural nature of the show. I think that’s one of the reasons we’re so successful."

[zannej]

Thanks. I knew I'd read somewhere that more than one person was involved in the process.

So Ticona wasn't alone on her writing. Pretty much every step of the way she had to get approval. I still think it turned out reasonably well for a first try.

[ForeverAlone]

So basically the entire writing staff is on their ass, because the quality of the stories has declined since season seven. Yes, there are some really good episodes in the past few seasons, but there just aren't AS MANY as the early seasons. So basically to right the ship, most of the current writing staff needs to be overhauled, because they aren't going to get back to that quality with the current configuration. 

[David T. Cole]

I just deleted a bunch of posts from here in the interest of picking up after a stumble where the conversation stopped being about the show and starting being about the 'right' away to watch it.

So to everyone in this topic -- new, old, poster, mod, black, white, criminal, mind -- and in the Criminal Minds forum I would like to remind you that:

• civility is paramount
• homogeneity of opinion is never expected or encouraged
• there's always a way to express your thoughts about the show without getting personal. So think twice on that and post once!

Alright. Hug it out. Good job team. Back to the episode discussion.

[David T. Cole]

I just wanted to add that the buck stops here with me and I had the opportunity to put this fire out when it started but I didn't and that is on me. We're all getting used to the newness here.

[zannej]

I forgot to mention that I did sort of get a soap opera vibe from the end of the episode when Morgan was kissing Savannah. Mind you, I avoid soap operas like the plague so I haven't seen much of them. I think the last time I saw something it had a blond girl in a tunnel with an iguana and she started screaming about it being a "dinosaur" and then really fake Styrofoam rocks started falling down. I was laughing so hard a that. I don't remember any more than that scene.

I was surprised that the characters were not as out of character as I'd expected given that it was a new writer. They were actually a it more in character than when written by some of the regular writers.

[zannej]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that I thought it would be even remotely possible for the facility to allow Diana to go on a field trip without the permission of some sort of legal guardian. What I was suggesting was that if we squint really hard and pretend that somehow hell froze over and Reid passed some legal guardianship to his father (it would assume that Reid was on good enough terms with his father to trust him- and it would be done because Reid's father is in the vicinity and can respond quickly if something went wrong and Reid was unavailable). IF we assume that the stuff Reid was dealing with involving his mother during the sabbatical involved some sort of legal paperwork hell and working out guardianship arrangements and such, we could pretend that William Reid was given some control. It's something that I think the writers would think was feasible, but probably would never happen. I admit I did ponder what would have happened if the reason he was on sabbatical was because his father initiated some legal action and battled it out with Reid for control over Diana (they never stated whether or not William actually divorced her) and came to some agreement that gave both of them guardianship.

I still call BS on them not notifying Reid about her leaving the facility though.

I didn't think they were saying she was completely cured. Sometimes patients can show remarkable progress when a new medication starts to kick in, but within a few months it stops working as well or the patient starts to think he/she is cured and no longer needs the medication. I've seen a friend doing well when she got on a new medication and it lasted a few months before she began to have problems again. It just doesn't last.

Sometimes in order to accept a certain story I have to just fanwank-- like the season 5 episode where Reid pretended to not get the story Prentiss told him about the star that shattered and how it had to be put back together. I had to pretend that Reid was just pulling her leg and keeping a straight face to mess with her so that I did not get pissed off about them writing Reid to be so out of character and clueless.

[AlecNewbary]

I don't mean to sound heartless when I say this, but does anyone else ever not want the victim to make it? I don't mean for every victim to be killed before the team can get to them, but every once in a while the writers should throw that in there. While it is a sad ending it shows the audience that they are only human and not super humans, like Erica likes to think JJ is. It seems as of late, the only way the episodes end are by the unsub surrendering, taking off and having the team run after them or the unsub killing themselves. Also, occasionally showing this would show the reality of the job and how sometimes, they don't always get there in time. Honestly, I think an ending like that would be more realistic than some of the unsubs surrendering. I also see what everyone means when wanting another team member to be the one to talk to Morgan. Personally, I think it should have been Hotch. He could have taken the time to tell Morgan how to avoid being in the same situation that he ended up being in with Haley. I don't see how the writers didn't take advantage of Hotch/Morgan time or Reid/Morgan time. I don't want to say that I dislike JJ, but I am finding it hard to deny. I am just tired of always hearing her spouting off things about crime scenes, etc. to Reid or Morgan who have been profilers for how long. Are we really supposed to believe that she knows more than them, just because she can kick butt and apparently breezed through profiling no problem? I am sorry, but it is hard for me to swallow that story. I must say I appreciate the continuity with Savannah talking about Morgan's driving, much like Reid pointed out on "The Angel Maker". That at least shows that there is some continuity in that aspect!

[SSAHotchner]

This wasn't a bad episode, but when are they going to give someone besides Morgan and JJ some screen time? Sheesh! Did Hotch get demoted and they just didn't bother to mention it? He's barely had anything to do all season. Rossi is rarely used, which for an actor of Joe's caliber is absurd. Reid has had a few moments this season, but Blake might as well not even have returned this season for all they've given her to do. I'm not interested in Morgan's love life, but if anyone should have talked to him about his situation, it should have been Hotch. That scene with JJ was painful to watch. If I had known she was going to turn out to be so obnoxious and overbearing, I never would have petitioned to bring her back.

Thanks for the info from Virgil about the writing process. Seriously, they need to have much more quality control of all the scripts. The lack of continuity for characters is appalling. And there's a limit on my ability to suspend my disbelief. Not so much for this episode, although I agree with those who question how the unsub was able to move the male victims, but 200 was a total piece of garbage. Where was the voice of reason?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to conversing with you all here.

[webruce]

First of all I don't like it when we (BAU), figure out the un-sub, that Piggy, took off her mask and was Susan Harrison. I know she got mad at the hospital and then went and took it out on the 3 hostages. But even if we saw her put it back on before she went back into the torture area, they did not know her identity until then. So like when she poured the acid in Trevor Burketts mouth and dumped him in the woods, he had no idea who Piggy was when the authorities asked.

I did think when Piggy parked her truck behind Debbie Martin and Christie White in the parking lot and tased Debbie it did look like a female form.

I felt very sad that Susan's sister Lauryn-Anne Harrison was in a coma and had to be unplugged. Finding out it was from a rape at a college party made it even worse for me.

Susan had kidnapped Michael Smith, Trevor Burkett, Christie White and later Adam Richmond. They all had a part in Lauryn's rape, or covering it up. Also Dr. Edward Calder. I thought he was bad when I first saw him at hospital.

It was also nice that at first the team was looking into James Lynwood who jumped to his death at Berta Sigma Delta's Piggy Party a few years earlier. It was a false revenge lead but they need those some episodes. Even though they didn't talk to his family. But I guess they had no link to Christie White.

Savannah wasn't happy with Morgan having to work so much. She wants him to meet her parents but he is always busy. Seems like Things were better later after the mission. Morgan said he loved her.

Flying home it seemed the team was all in their own little world. Morgan also told JJ he liked her better as the press liaison.

[Wilowy]

EVIDENCE FOUND NEAR BODIES IN LONG BEACH, CALIF., HAVE THE BAU SEARCHING FOR AN UNSUB FASCINATED WITH GREEK MYTHOLOGY, ON “CRIMINAL MINDS,” WEDNESDAY, APRIL 30

 

“Fatal” – When victims are found dead from arsenic poisoning in Long Beach, Calif., handwritten death threats and other clues have the BAU looking for an UnSub fascinated with Greek mythology. Meanwhile, Hotch has concerns about participating in Jack’s third grade career day, on CRIMINAL MINDS, Wednesday, April 30 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. 

[Wilowy]

Incredibly tight, well-wrought episode!! WHAT. THE. HELL?? Did Bruce take a class or something?? REID!! HOTCH!! EVERYONE!

 

Guys, I hate to say this, but they've been dicking us. These writers have known how to craft us our excellent eps ALL ALONG.

 

sigh. Just kidding. But this was REALLY GOOD. And why haven't they been giving us this all year? If BRUCE can do it, anyone can.

 

In case not everyone has seen the preview:

HOLLLLLLLLLY FUCCCCCCCCCCCKKK!! MY REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEID!!! Dead. I'm now dead. 

[SSAHotchner]

I liked this episode, but I question the manor in which the victims died. Did they research arsenic at all? I would think that a dose large enough to kill them so quickly would produce much quicker reactions/symptoms. And even if it worked slower, they would be really sick and not just vomit once and die. Loved that Rossi, Hotch, Blake and Reid got some stuff to do in this episode. I know it's childish, but I love it when Rossi curses about the unsubs. He's such a character! Loved the pairing of Blake and Reid. It started out so well, but of course it had to be Morgan and JJ taking down the unsub AGAIN. Sheesh. Can't we ever get a break from the two of them? Love, love, LOVED the scene at the end with Hotch and Jack's classmates. Hotch is such a sweetheart. It was a pleasure to see him in a light moment. I barely recognized Jack. The little cherub has really grown! And I loved that they suggested the teacher was attracted to Hotch. Who wouldn't be? It was a much more natural meeting for Hotch and a potential date. I always hated the way they forced the instant romance between Hotch and Beth, whom I totally despise. This was much more believable. If they meet from time to time and slowly discover they have common interests, that would be great. If nothing develops, so be it. Nothing lost. But at least it wasn't crammed down our throats with everyone speculating about it and saying how great the woman was right away. Lastly, he was a sympathetic character, but I was somewhat amused by the unsub being Kevin from The Office. He did an okay job, but it's kind of hard for me to take him seriously.

[normasm]

I totally agree, willowy! Even though we knew who the unsub was from the beginning, it held my interest. Good profiling, smart Reid Hotchness, and balance! Balance is what we've been asking for, and this was really well done. Fast-paced, and crisp.

[Wilowy]

I hear you about Kevin, SSAHotchner, but I thought he did a really good job. Every time he started to go into 'Kevin' territtory, it was like you could feel him pulling out of there and vocalizing properly. I believed him as the UnSub, totally. And at the end when he just dropped the weapon, I felt so bad for him. Like his whole spree had been a lie. Did anyone catch if the van actually did wreck, killing those people or was that just a lie they told to disarm him, I missed it. 

 

normasm, right? I really do love it when the writers surprise me. But I also get this feeling of... well, if you know how to DO this awesome stuff... why don't you do it every week? ARGH! The profiling was excellent, and I loved Jack's class - AND Jack! He's grown and doesn't have that weird, stilted delivery any more! AWW!

 

I also thought all the guest actors were wonderful. But most of all, I loved my Reid. He was amazing. And I really enjoyed seeing him and Morgan work together again. I mean REALLY enjoyed that. I miss those two working together and being bros. 

[normasm]

I think Morgan made that up, Willowy, about the van. I can't see how he wouldn't have known that happened, it would have been on the news... Minor point, I guess.

 

EDIT: Actually, that bit was Garcia's final OMG of the night, but i still don't see how 1) he wouldn't have heard about what happened, and 2) how it would have been on the internets in 2014. But, like I say, minor point.

Edited May 1, 2014 by normasm