S01.E07: Death Keeps Knocking on My Door

[ElectricBoogaloo]

MID-SEASON FINALE!

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As Hope hits the books to learn more about the latest creature to arrive to the school, things take a dark and twisted turn leaving her to confront one of her darkest fears. Meanwhile, Alaric attempts to help Rafael cope after his past comes back to haunt him.

Promo:

Original air date: 12/13/18

[UNOSEZ]

Solid episode.. Somehow I was actually surprised that the necromancer and Raf's GF got the knife... I had a feeling that MG would be a ripper. Seems like the good-hearted vamps are solid ripper candidates... Nice RAF/ Hope convo at the end.. But then they ruined it with talk of Elena.. I mean Landon being in danger.. So now that pairing will grind to a halt

[Chris24601]

Can Landon be the second key (instead of the third key he clearly is - which to be fair is still better than him ending up being a savior figure) so he can be destroyed without ending the world? Raph and Hope are a ton more interesting Landon and Hope by a country mile and his death would absolutely be something for them to cement some type of bond over.

I’m glad the knife drama is done, but they’ve set up dire enough prospects that Hope’s “Avengers” are clearly going to have to get proactive about stopping key two and three from unlocking. Such is the way of stories; the heroes are reluctant at first so the adventure comes to them... but they’ve passed the threshold now (some might say in a manner a bit too much on the nose, but I’ll take the literal over something so esoteric no one even catches it any day) so now it’s time for them to choose to take the next step into the larger world.

Given that we’ve already seen Hayley’s spirit turn up watching over Hope in the finale of The Originals, I’d not be surprised that The Necromancer was telling the truth about Klaus’ spirit watching over hope (apparently no one cares that Elijah is probably there too) and what he’d need to actually find peace.

MG as a Ripper-in-potentia also doesn’t surprise me. He was a little too milk toast and was in need of a personal flaw to overcome (rather than the interpersonal one that was his crush on Lizzie). It definitely seems like the vampires who most try to hold onto their humanity are the most likely to go completely out of control when their beast comes out.

Also of note is that I didn’t even miss Josie and Lizzie until the episode was over and realized I didn’t miss them.

All in all, I’m looking forward to where it’s going to go next once it comes back from hiatus.

[Minneapple]

Not a bad episode, but I knew right away the Necromancer would play Hope into getting the knife. Also, where the hell were Josie and Lizzie? 

I did like the Necromancer, he amused me. Generally the creatures they brought for the MotW format were good -- the dragon, the dryad, Jo, the Necromancer.

I don't care that Klaus is dead even if it makes Hope sad and more emo than usual. Klaus annoyed me on The Vampire Diaries so I hope he died a gruesome death.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved the Necromancer. He really made this episode with his constant dramatic exclamations. He was the right amount of comic relief. Not at all surprising that he manipulated Hope so that he could get exactly what he wanted. I am going to miss that freaky guy. When he said the grim reaper was a carnival sideshow hack, it reminded me of Spike on BtVS saying that Dracula just did flashy gypsy tricks.

I absolutely LOVED that Dorian was very clear with both Hope and Alaric not to bother him on his day off. I know that what Hope said is true (evil doesn't take a holiday), it's also true that everyone needs a break now and then. If Dorian's one day off a year results in the apocalypse, so be it. I respect him for having boundaries. I also respect that he can set aside the fact that he is able to set aside the fact that Stefan murdered his father and sister and work in what used to be Stefan's home. I don't know if I could do that.

As the saying goes, with great power comes great responsibility. I know that Hope was trying to help and she did what she thought was best, but she is also 15. Like Lizzie and Josie, having so much power means that Alaric and the school really need to hire someone who can help them with impulse control, anger management, and just generally keeping calm/making good decisions. I guess that's what Emma is supposed to be doing but this is where I feel like having more adults/role models/parental involvement would be a good thing. As much as Hope likes Alaric, I think she would take it much harder if Freya or Marcel gave her a stern talking to for the way she handled the Necromancer situation. I hope there are at least minimal consequences for what she did. Aside from what she actually did with the Necromancer (recruiting another student to help her get into his head), she used magic to trap Alaric in his office so that he couldn't stop her from going back. That's insubordination so that should merit some kind of punishment.

8 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I don't care that Klaus is dead even if it makes Hope sad and more emo than usual. Klaus annoyed me on The Vampire Diaries so I hope he died a gruesome death.

Ha, I'm with you. Klaus was a temper tantrum throwing dick who had no impulse control, murdered people left and right for offenses as minor as snoring too loudly or loving his siblings, and then acted like he was the self-righteous victim when people wanted revenge. I'm glad he's dead and gone too.

[AngelKitty]

And this is what happens without enough adult supervision.

[ketose]

The problem is that Josie and Lizzie are Siphons and there aren't a whole lot of them around to work at the school. Hops is supposed to be special, but she can't seem to do vampire things and she may not have any werewolf senses either. The only stuff she's done so far is minor witchcraft.

No Penelope either this week.

Edited December 14, 2018 by ketose

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 minutes ago, ketose said:

The problem is that Josie and Lizzie are Siphons and there aren't a whole lot of them around to work at the school. Hops is supposed to be special, but she can't seem to do vampire things and she may not have any werewolf senses either. The only stuff she's done so far is minor witchcraft.

Josie and Lizzie don't need to specifically be around siphoners. They're witches so they should be working on spells/magic (in addition to learning some major impulse control).

Hope can compel which is a vampire power. She did it on The Originals but I don't remember if we've seen her do it on Legacies yet. Her blood also has healing properties which is another vampire power. She had her first transformation into a werewolf on The Originals and even before that, she had more agility than a human due to being a werewolf. In one episode, she was basically parkouring around a two story house but way better than a normal human would (this was on The Originals before her first werewolf transformation).

[Josie means Love]

Is it me or a mid-season finale is supposed to feature every main character? I mean, yeah, Landon's absence was understandable, but he still got mentioned at the end. Where the hell were Josie and Lizzie? According to Kaylee Bryant, Josie's not gonna be around in the next 2-3 episodes, I think she will be absent from episodes 8 and 9, too. I would assume that we won't be seeing Lizzie either. This is too much imo. 

Other than that, I liked the episode, it was pretty decent. Raf got his closure with Cassie and he should be able to move on from her now. I hope he's going to choose one of the twins and just try to be happy again. I really hope that he's not going to be the "gigolo" that Hope called him. 

The Necromancer is by far the best creature so far, I really hope we'll be seeing him again. He didn't seem that evil/bad after all, I guess he can be redeemed, sort of. The Salvatore school has to be expanded in terms of supernatural species and by the end of S1 there should be some new guys. I'm still not giving up hope that we're going to see Kitsunes in the TVD universe one day. It could be mainstream, but they're canon in the books so Julie should just give it a try, even if they're antagonistic and not necessarily attend the school. 

P.S. There will be a lot of waiting until January 24th, so can anyone suggest some series I should watch? 

4 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Hope can compel which is a vampire power. She did it on The Originals but I don't remember if we've seen her do it on Legacies yet. 

I don't think she can do that. I don't know whether or not she compelled someone on TO, but in Legacies premiere she and Alaric waited for MG to try and compel Landon. It could be a plot hole tho, or maybe Julie just forgot about it. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Josie means Love

[ElectricBoogaloo]

19 minutes ago, Josie means Love said:

don't think she can do that. I don't know whether or not she compelled someone on TO, but in Legacies premiere she and Alaric waited for MG to try and compel Landon. It could be a plot hole tho, or maybe Julie just forgot about it. 

That’s a pretty big plothole/retcon because if I recall correctly, Hope was not only able to compel humans but vampires as well. 

I did wonder why she needed MG to get into the Necromancer’s mind because on TVD, all it required was one vampire. When the Necromancer said, “I assume you have a powerful vampire,” I thought she was going to say, “You’re looking at her!” which would then require a conversation rehashing the old rules (a witch can’t be a vampire - you know, unless the plot requires it à la the Heretics) and then the Necromancer saying that the gargoyles and dragons weren’t the only fairy tale creatures that turned out to be real. 

On a related note, did the dryad remember other creatures that have been erased? At any rate, we know she was erased/sent to Malivore much earlier than the Necromancer since he was still around long enough to know about Nazis. 

[Gwen-Stacys]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Hope can compel which is a vampire power. She did it on The Originals but I don't remember if we've seen her do it on Legacies yet. Her blood also has healing properties which is another vampire power. She had her first transformation into a werewolf on The Originals and even before that, she had more agility than a human due to being a werewolf. In one episode, she was basically parkouring around a two story house but way better than a normal human would (this was on The Originals before her first werewolf transformation).

 

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That’s a pretty big plothole/retcon because if I recall correctly, Hope was not only able to compel humans but vampires as well. 

Nope. Hope has never been able to compel anyone. She's had hybrids that were sired to her, like how Tyler was sired to Klaus in season 3 (???) before he broke it, so maybe that's what everyone's thinking about? Her hybrids (only 2 still alive, unless they died in the 2 years btw TO season finale ad Legacies' premier) were the only beings she could control without magic, and that's not compulsion. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Gwen-Stacys

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, Gwen-Stacys said:

 

Nope. Hope has never been able to compel anyone. She's had hybrids that were sired to her, like how Tyler was sired to Klaus in season 3 (???) before he broke it, so maybe that's what everyone's thinking about? Her hybrids (only 2 still alive, unless they died in the 2 years btw TO season finale ad Legacies' premier) were the only beings she could control without magic, and that's not compulsion. 

Ha, I remembered that she got someone to do what she said without question in the final season of TO but I totally forgot that it was a hybrid who was sired to her. Thank goodness some people have better memories than I do!

As a hybrid, Klaus had both vampire and werewolf powers so it seems weird that Hope wouldn't have all the regular vampire powers like compelling people and being able to go into their minds.

[ursula]

Hope has vampire blood, so it affects her line a human who's full of vampire blood : she heals instantly. But it won't give her vampire powers like speed, strength, compulsion, mind-jacking, etc. She gets her agility and speed from her werewolf side. 

 

This is actually a good point: will Hope still be able to make hybrids if she unlocks her vampire side (dying and resurrecting?) Because her blood works because it's vamp blood but it still counts as "living" blood. 

(I know this will end up being an "as the plot" determines thing but I can't help wanting to speculate.)

[Gwen-Stacys]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ha, I remembered that she got someone to do what she said without question in the final season of TO but I totally forgot that it was a hybrid who was sired to her. Thank goodness some people have better memories than I do!

As a hybrid, Klaus had both vampire and werewolf powers so it seems weird that Hope wouldn't have all the regular vampire powers like compelling people and being able to go into their minds.

She's not a full hybrid yet. While she has vampire blood in her veins, she herself is not a "Triggered" vampire. Like how she had her wolf agility before she triggered her werewolf half (but acknowledged the agility was nothing compared to what she could do once her wolf was triggered. Why they haven't explored that more...I have no idea.)

[ursula]

I just wanted to add that I felt the twins's absence keenly, and I was surprised there was no explanation for it especially since this was a great chance to name drop legacy characters - visit with their godmother Valerie, or a camping trip with aunt Elena, or a field trip with aunt Bonnie. Coming on the heels of the last episode that was so twins-centric, this episode caused a mood whiplash. And I can't help wondering at the decision to devote so much time/arc on Klaus's fate. New fans won't care. And among the legacy fans, a good deal of TVD and TO audiences didn't mix (i.e. a great deal of people only watched TVD to the end or only watched TO to the end) so there are a good number that didn't even know that Klaus's fate was a mystery, and frankly didnt' care. Then there are the legacy fans who liked the idea of Klaus going to hell and the fans who wanted Klaus to definitely be at peace, and both would be pissed off by this quasi-peace solution, 

[Chris24601]

3 hours ago, Gwen-Stacys said:

She's not a full hybrid yet. While she has vampire blood in her veins, she herself is not a "Triggered" vampire. Like how she had her wolf agility before she triggered her werewolf half (but acknowledged the agility was nothing compared to what she could do once her wolf was triggered. Why they haven't explored that more...I have no idea.)

Technically even without the vampire part, she's still a Witch-Werewolf hybrid. Beyond that though she's got the instant healing and ability to sire at least hybrids (possibly even actual vampires, we've never had any non-werewolf killed with her blood in their veins) and she's not an ordinary werewolf. Raf and presumably the other wolves at the school only turn on the full-moon, but the Crescent Moon pack all has the fully suite of Hybrid werewolf powers due to Hayley's sacred marriage deal; She is in full control of her shape-shifting and has even greater strength and agility than a normal werewolf (and at least part of her rapid healing comes from her werewolf side too).

She's basically this universe's version of The Slayer at this point.

[ketose]

On 12/14/2018 at 6:25 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Josie and Lizzie don't need to specifically be around siphoners. They're witches so they should be working on spells/magic (in addition to learning some major impulse control).

Hope can compel which is a vampire power. She did it on The Originals but I don't remember if we've seen her do it on Legacies yet. Her blood also has healing properties which is another vampire power. She had her first transformation into a werewolf on The Originals and even before that, she had more agility than a human due to being a werewolf. In one episode, she was basically parkouring around a two story house but way better than a normal human would (this was on The Originals before her first werewolf transformation).

I just meant that I expect Alaric to require Lizzie and Josie's unique siphoning power on occasion, especially since he's less likely to recruit a staff member who's also a siphon.

 

13 hours ago, Gwen-Stacys said:

She's not a full hybrid yet. While she has vampire blood in her veins, she herself is not a "Triggered" vampire. Like how she had her wolf agility before she triggered her werewolf half (but acknowledged the agility was nothing compared to what she could do once her wolf was triggered. Why they haven't explored that more...I have no idea.)

In TO, we learned that werewolves are the result of old and powerful magic, much like vampires. It's canon that a vampire can't be a witch (a turned witch loses their powers) but I'm not sure how much magic a werewolf can do. Vampirism isn't usually "triggered" so much as it can be a by-product of dying with vampire blood in your system. In Hope's unique case, when she dies she will transition to vampire because she always has vampire blood. However, the vampire blood still allows her to turn to a werewolf at will and sire hybrids.

[Lambsilencer]

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As the saying goes, with great power comes great responsibility. I know that Hope was trying to help and she did what she thought was best, but she is also 15. Like Lizzie and Josie, having so much power means that Alaric and the school really need to hire someone who can help them with impulse control, anger management, and just generally keeping calm/making good decisions. I guess that's what Emma is supposed to be doing but this is where I feel like having more adults/role models/parental involvement would be a good thing. As much as Hope likes Alaric, I think she would take it much harder if Freya or Marcel gave her a stern talking to for the way she handled the Necromancer situation. I hope there are at least minimal consequences for what she did. Aside from what she actually did with the Necromancer (recruiting another student to help her get into his head), she used magic to trap Alaric in his office so that he couldn't stop her from going back. That's insubordination so that should merit some kind of punishment.

I always thought that Alaric, if he wants Hope to be a student at the school instead of mainly his sidekick and weapon in his fights, he should treat her more as such and give the other students a clear signal that Hope (even though she might be "special") does not have more authority or privileges at the school than any other student.

I felt for Lizzie and Josie when they accused Alaric back in episode 1 (or 2) of taking more care of Hope than them. As their father, he should be more concerned in nourishing their future instead of putting Hope first. No wonder they felt neglected.

So, Alaric needs to make a fundamental decision. Does he want Hope to be a student or a sidekick? Because I think if on one hand, she needs to follow school rules, on the other hand, she is more like part of its staff, she gets even more confused than she already is. The girl needs clear guidance and, occasionally a firm ruling hand, for sure.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Lambsilencer

[ursula]

So Dorian's speech to Kaleb, with a name change:

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Do you know what kind of vamps are susceptible to being rippers? If I was taking bets, I'd say an impressionable, obsessive, clinically ADHD, horny little kid like Stefan Salvatore.

Considering that Stefan was a 17-year-old virgin when he met Katherine... this is a fair assumption, right?

[AngelKitty]

18 hours ago, Lambsilencer said:

So, Alaric needs to make a fundamental decision. Does he want Hope to be a student or a sidekick?

This may be true, but it isn't going to happen. First of all, Alaric is too wishy-washy and is just not a strong parental type. We saw this time and time again in the Vampire Diaries. He became part of their group but not a guiding force. He'll give lip service to Hope being a student but he'll use her when he can. She's the most powerful person on the show and he needs her help. It's that simple. Also, he's more protective of the twins because they are his daughters. He wants them to stay young and innocent of the bad supernatural stuff.

[Chris24601]

My take on Aleric and Hope is that he’s using her as a sidekick precisely because Hope has already experienced worse than just about every other student at the school is ever going to experience on their worst day by the time she was eight. There’s not much more she can experience at this point that’ll do any more damage than has probably already been done.

Sure, there’s probably some sort of therapeutic course of action akin to treating PTSD that might make her more functionally normal, but a super-werewolf with vampire healing blood, the firstborn Michaelson witch power boost and probably more magic knowledge via Freya and Vincent than even some of the faculty is just too much of an advantage to pass up when crap hits the fan.

Let’s not forget either that Aleric has the Gemini Coven merge crap looming over his kids and having a super-witch/werewolf/vampire sidekick available for trying to fix that is probably way higher on Aleric’s list of priorities than actually fixing Hope’s damage until that’s fixed first.

Basically, Aleric is using Hope so he doesn’t have to use the other students (particularly his daughters) and because Hope is so damaged that she’s okay with being used so long as she also gets the much greater latitude that comes with it.

As such, Hope knows that even if Aleric is mad at her, he’ll eventually get over it because she’s too useful for keeping the rest of the students away from all the darkness. It’s not remotely healthy for either of them really, but Malivore (literally “evil eater”) and Gemini merges are pretty much worse and damaged characters are way more interesting anyway.

[Josie means Love]

On 12/17/2018 at 8:13 AM, ursula said:

So Dorian's speech to Kaleb, with a name change:

Considering that Stefan was a 17-year-old virgin when he met Katherine... this is a fair assumption, right?

He was 17-year-old, but not a virgin. Remember Valerie? Back when TVD and Julie really wanted to get rid of Nina's legacy on the show. 

[Gwen-Stacys]

"He was 17-year-old, but not a virgin. Remember Valerie? Back when TVD and Julie really wanted to get rid of Nina's legacy on the show. "

I was about to say! I know I quit vampire diaries a season or two before the bitter end, but I did remember him putting a whole ass fetus in someone's uterus. Though, to be fair, he didn't remember it, so he was, in his mind, still a virgin.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gwen-Stacys

[DestinyAngel]

In the Necromancer episode when Hope is writing to her dear father Klaus, she says “I’m glad to know you’re with me, but I look forward to the day when you’re not.” At first I thought it was her saying she looks forward to physically being with Klaus in the after life since losing a parent in such a devastating way takes a toll especially after just getting them back. but as I’m dissecting it more, did she mean when he is no longer looking after her? As in when he finds peace, he won’t be looking after her? I feel like that doesn’t make sense. When he hopefully finds peace, if I were Hope I would still want him to be with me & watch over me & to know we’re always in each other’s hearts. I’m just really confused.

[Chris24601]

Pretty simple really... in the TVD-verse the afterlife is a matter of finding peace. If you're lingering in the mortal world (in this case the Necromancer saying that Klaus hadn't found peace because Hope isn't truly happy) its because you have unfinished business.

In this case she's saying she takes comfort in his spirit watching over her, but hoping she'll find happiness enough for his spirit to be able to pass on and find peace.