Charmed - General Discussion

[Primal Slayer]

I love Grams and how she channeled her TK.

Of course we know that Wyatt turns evil in the future but I think they should've taken Grams whole spiel about not having males in the last 300 years as something more serious in the storyline. 

[4evaQuez]

16 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I love Grams and how she channeled her TK.

Of course we know that Wyatt turns evil in the future but I think they should've taken Grams whole spiel about not having males in the last 300 years as something more serious in the storyline. 

I agree with you. I love how it shows Grams' strong and fearless personality.

I would love if Paramount Plus - according to Wiki Paramount owns the Charmed rights - did a Penny prequel series. It could follow Penny and her coven before Patty was born.

I also wouldn't mind a Charmed animated series while I'm dreaming big. 

[Pearson80]

6 minutes ago, 4evaQuez said:

I agree with you. I love how it shows Grams' strong and fearless personality.

I would love if Paramount Plus - according to Wiki Paramount owns the Charmed rights - did a Penny prequel series. It could follow Penny and her coven before Patty was born.

I also wouldn't mind a Charmed animated series while I'm dreaming big. 

What I loved about Grams is that her grandchildren inherited something from her. 

Prue inherited her strength and telekinesis.

Piper inherited her potion making abilities and cooking skills.

Phoebe inherited her fearlessness and spell casting abilities.

A grams prequel would have been awesome with Constance Burge writing it and Brad Kern not being around..

Edited February 27, 2022 by Pearson80

[4evaQuez]

6 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

What I loved about Grams is that her grandchildren inherited something from her. 

Prue inherited her strength and telekinesis.

Piper inherited her potion making abilities and cooking skills.

Phoebe inherited her fearlessness and spell casting abilities.

A grams prequel would have been awesome with Constance Burge writing it and Brad Kern not being around..

True. I wish we knew more about Patty. The show liked to say Prue and Piper were the most like her, but it felt like lip service. I feel we never really got to know her outside of the Charmed Ones' gone too soon mother.

I was thinking I would like the Charmed Animated Series to be set during a time we couldn't be with the Charmed Ones, i.e. over the summer break. I realized there's not many opportunities to do so.

1. After Season 1, Andy is dead, and I don't want to see Prue grieve the entire time.

2. After Season 2, Piper is "up there" and can't be a part of it.

3. After Season 3,  Prue is dead, and only a week has passed between Season 3 and Season 4.

4. After Season 4 seems like the best time. The three sisters are together, no one is grieving a loss, and Piper is super early in her pregnancy, so that shouldn't be an issue. You could easily pull a 12 episode animated series from between the end of Season 4 to the beginning of Season 5.

5. After Season 5, Leo is missing, and Piper is under that spell Leo cast on her. We also have to deal with Chris being around.

6. After Season 6, Chris is dead, which I don't mind. However, I don't want to see Piper grieving. Leo is insane during this time, which I don't want to see.

7. After Season 7, The Charmed Ones are "deceased."

 

[Pearson80]

18 minutes ago, 4evaQuez said:

True. I wish we knew more about Patty. The show liked to say Prue and Piper were the most like her, but it felt like lip service. I feel we never really got to know her outside of the Charmed Ones' gone too soon mother.

 

I wish that we knew more about Patty as well. She was always a tragic figure whose death affected her daughters differently. Her absence shaped their personalities. 

Prue having to grow up fast to take care of baby sisters suppressing her own desires. It continued even as a charmed one and we saw her astral self expressing herself in a way that Prue never did in season 3.

 Piper feeling invisible underappreciated and unmoored who attached herself fiercely to her grandmother. We saw their close bond in the prewitch episode.

 Phoebe being angry not having had a mother that pushed her to lash out as a teen.

At least Paige had a mom who loved her so she did not grow up without a mom like her sisters.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Pearson80

[Primal Slayer]

Im surprised they never a did a 'What If' Patty hadn't died episode 

[4evaQuez]

27 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Im surprised they never a did a 'What If' Patty hadn't died episode 

That actually seems like a perfect 100th episode if Prue had not died. 

[Pearson80]

19 minutes ago, 4evaQuez said:

That actually seems like a perfect 100th episode if Prue had not died. 

That would have been awesome episode, especially to see how different the sisters would have been had they been raised by their mom. 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Pearson80

[Primal Slayer]

Finished up S5 and onto S6....some stray observations:

The writers wanting to make Paige into Ms.Superwitch really got in the way of Phoebe being a decent witch. Paige having all those dreams or whatever of the Titans really should've been Phoebes subplot. The woman with the premintions couldn't even see or feel them coming...it's almost as like:

Making Phoebe into the Goddess of Love is of course within her character even though it was less love and more lust. It's something the writers really like to drive home about Phoebe. She gets hit by the sin of Lust, is psychically connected to the succubus, Goddess of love, picks up on everyone's horniness as an empath...but if one thing is for certain, if we got all these characters in present day, Phoebe would certainly be bisexual lol.

Phoebe becoming an empath in S6....it wasn't something I was against but lord do I remember how annoying it got REAL FAST. They really wanted to amp her up so she can feel emotions, basically read thoughts, tap into witches/demons "emotions" to access their powers (which was teh DUMBEST thing ever). The power advances very quickly. But lord can Alyssa rock any hair-do! She looks great with the pixie cut. But I love Jason, outside of Cole, he was the best love interest she had and should've been her end-game. 

The writers really couldn't wait 5 minutes before thrusting Piper back into the dating world could they? She just got out of a very intense relationship, has a child and already is trying to date again? One of my biggest tv taboos is wasting our time with love interests that have no chance at being end-game because they want to delay the endgame couple. 

Drew Fuller really was a terrible actor lol and Chris really had next to no redeeming qualities lol. I dont know how he could even be considered good when he's fine with killing people (or we..magical people) by using his TK to stop their heart! Damn. And he's worried about Wyatt growing up evil?

Paige has a whole degree and they have her do various temp jobs that she would never do or stay with long term. 

Piper/Phoebe just become more and more selfish as the seasons go on. Piper could care less about saving a soul because he willingly sold his soul to a demon! Paige has to hound her to save him while Phoebe is just out here throwing potions left and right with turning her sleeve bag co-worker into various animals. 

[Primal Slayer]

Also this pic is the closest we will ever get to a reunion...what I would give to at least get a EW reunion issue

[Pearson80]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Making Phoebe into the Goddess of Love is of course within her character even though it was less love and more lust. It's something the writers really like to drive home about Phoebe. She gets hit by the sin of Lust, is psychically connected to the succubus, Goddess of love, picks up on everyone's horniness as an empath...but if one thing is for certain, if we got all these characters in present day, Phoebe would certainly be bisexual lol.

 

I could definitely see Phoebe experimenting with women.

I did love Phoebe being connected  psychically to that succubus in season 2 and Bo in season 3. It seemed like a power advancement that should have been fleshed out more..

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Phoebe becoming an empath in S6....it wasn't something I was against but lord do I remember how annoying it got REAL FAST. They really wanted to amp her up so she can feel emotions, basically read thoughts, tap into witches/demons "emotions" to access their powers (which was teh DUMBEST thing ever). The power advances very quickly. But lord can Alyssa rock any hair-do! She looks great with the pixie cut. But I love Jason, outside of Cole, he was the best love interest she had and should've been her end-game. 

 

I always thought that empathy and even telepathy should have been power advancements of her premonition power.   It was so stupid for Phoebe to be able to tap into people's powers, it never made any sense. 

[Primal Slayer]

The deeper i get into s6 the harder it is the watch. They just have next to no care about the show and they think they're in a comedy.  There are no stakes at hand...

[4evaQuez]

I'm a little heartbroken as I have to write this final Season 8 review. Once again, I've come to the end of Charmed. As much as I've had some very genuine complaints about Seasons 6-8, I'm actually going to miss rewatching the show. Even at its worst, I truly love it. I found myself liking the last few minutes - and only the last few minutes - of Forever Charmed just as much as the first time.

First, I'll say I actually enjoyed watching Season 8 much more than I was expecting. I honestly dreaded watching this season as I remember hating it so much. As I wrote during my Season 6 review, Season 6 and Season 8 often switch as my least favorite season. That may continue in the future, but as of right now, I enjoyed my Season 8 rewatch more. A large part of that is that I haven't watched Season 8 at all in syndication. Hulkus Pocus and Jung and the Restless are the only episodes I watch during reruns, and I never bought the Season 8 DVDs. Thank you, Peacock. However, that actually made Season 8 really easy to rewatch. I genuinely had no idea what some of the episodes were about, especially later season episodes. I was honestly taken off guard and even surprised by some of the developments. I also think the actresses do a better job this season than last season with their portrayals. This still isn't Seasons 1-5 of Charmed, but it also isn't Season 6.

Billie Jenkins - Billie seems like the best place to start. I remember truly despising this character when she was introduced. As I'm certain we all know, the showrunners planned to have a spinoff with Billie, and they did absolutely everything wrong with introducing the character to the audience. With Paige, it was a slow build to her actually feeling like a main character. With Billie, they told us she is the new POV character and we'll like it or else. However, with a rewatch and knowing how spectacularly the character failed with the Charmed audience, there was no spinoff, and even the writers realized how much the character failed, I honestly didn't hate her as much. Quite frankly, she wasn't even the most annoying character of the season. Coop, Christie, and Phoebe take that prize, in that order. As I mentioned during Season 6, KC is a better actress than DF/Chris. I do think the show at least had a better idea who the character was. She at least does have an excitement for witchcraft and helping innocents. Because the show didn't make her someone's daughter, the show actually does a better job with having her connect with the Charmed Ones. Even though she's Paige's charge, she actually has the strongest relationship with Phoebe. She even helps Phoebe come to some a few narrative climaxes. It's Billie who helps Phoebe realize she misses her old life and she can no longer be Julie in Rewitched. It's Billie that helps Phoebe try to reconnect with her premonitions power after Phoebe had "given up on them" in Hulkus Pocus. Granted this is a stupid development that's happened in Seasons 5 and 6. But Billie still helped. It's Billie that helps Phoebe realize she's disconnected from love in Engaged and Confused. Again, this is stupid as Phoebe has been having this storyline since Season 2. But unlike Chris, Billie does actually seem to care about the sisters, especially Phoebe. Billie is spunky and has just enough youthful snark to set her apart from the protagonists.

That being said, I still don't particularly like the character. The Christy storyline is boring and takes away some of the few likable qualities Billie has. It's also curious since the show seems to lose interest in the storyline. Billie simply projects herself to Christy. The show doesn't even give us a big reunion between the two. The parents are killed and somehow this is Piper's fault in Christy's mind. The actresses also don't work particularly well together. Regardless of what was going on between SD/HMC/AM/RM behind the scenes, in front of the camera, they sold the sister chemistry. Billie/Christy do not. 

I've always hated Billie having telekinesis, and I hate the way KC motions her hands to activate her telekinesis. At this point, telekinesis seems like a cheap power. Everyone has it, and no one has the same flair SD had when using it. Also, Paige/Wyatt/Chris can all telekinetically orb. Why couldn't the show give her a new power? The thought projection power came entirely too fast, and the show gave her no limitations with it. I honestly question why Billie even needs spells when the show establishes she can time travel, transform people, enhance powers, multiply herself and others, etc. This brings me to Billie being the ultimate power. Piper/Phoebe/Paige are supposed to be scared of a relatively new witch with little training who isn't even old enough to drink? After the Source, Cole, Zankou, the Titans and Shax. Demons who literally had decades if not centuries of torturing people and general terror and destruction. The end of the season is laughable when you see a literal college student attempting to destroy witches with 8/5 years of actual experience. It also doesn't help that this feels like the Wyatt/Chris storyline - that I already didn't like - redone. I didn't care about Wyatt/Chris. I care even less about Billie/Christy.

Season 8 - That leads me to Season 8 as a whole. The producers/showrunners always knew this would be the last season. As a result, you can see the show trying to honor the legacy of Charmed. There are callbacks to important storylines, moments, characters, and they get most of the main characters - not named SD but for some reason they think we missed Fireman Greg - back throughout the series. However, that's also one of my big problems with the season. Some of these moments feel forced, unnatural, clunky, and in some cases, they are factually inaccurate. The worse case scenario is obviously Paige forgetting that she helped kill the Source three times in Season 4. Repo Manor is easily one of the worst examples. The show decided to put Size Matters, Power of Three Blondes, Scry Hard and a dash of Astral Monkey and Freaky Phoebe in a blender and pour out the result as a 45 minute episode. If that wasn't bad enough, the demons literally have a scene where they randomly recite Charmed facts and history to their male boss, and this continues after they take the sisters' identity. They aren't even accurate all the time with these recitations. At one point, "Phoebe" talks about how Piper used to guilt trip her about Cole. Piper literally never once guilt tripped her about Cole. Paige never even guilt tripped her about Cole. Prue is the only one who did., and she's long gone. There are a lot of these little errors throughout the season that makes me wonder if someone simply looked at Wikipedia - before it started the many initiatives to make the site as accurate and trustworthy as possible - for these Charmed Easter Eggs. (I also thought Simon the half witch/half whitelighter from a prominent British Wiccan line was incredibly egregious.).

I also hate the way the show does clips and flashbacks. The show has people see and know things they literally did not experience. in Generation Hex, Coop shows Phoebe her past loves. She sees the Season 5 vanquish of Cole. She literally was not there for that. That was not the real Phoebe. I'm even angrier because that wasn't even the best vanquish of Cole. Season 4 was. I feel the same way whenever the show would flashback to Piper's death in All Hell Breaks Loose.. The only person who should remember that is Leo. Piper/Prue never experienced it since time rewound. Phoebe is in the underworld and never saw it. Leo saw her dead body, but he had no details as to what happened. "They think we're the demons now" is all Prue told him. The show does the same thing with having Billie see future evil Wyatt from Chris Crossed. Except, that moment never happens because Chris changed the future. I just find it aggravating. 

Also, while there are quite a few episodes that feel like leftovers from past seasons, Lost Picture Show, pretty much lifted the same Paige/Sam dialogue from Season 5 for the Season 8 episode. Like I'm pretty sure it's copy and pasted. 

Paige/Henry - Is easily one of the things I like most about the season. They have a first meeting that fits both their personalities. Because of the limited time to the finale, they mostly get relatable obstacles like misunderstanding of their first "date," who pays the bill, Paige not wanting to lose her identity, etc. They are rarely the A plot, but even when they are, they carry the episode well. Payback's a Witch is one of my favorites. I also think they are one of the best couples. Phoebe/Cole and Piper/Leo both fundamentally changed the characters and the show. Paige/Henry are two people who are not in some forbidden love to change all loves. They are just two people who want to spend their life together regardless of their flaws. That's pretty inspiring in its own way. (The Coop subplot with Paige being put in Henry's head is the only thing that somewhat annoys me. I blame Coop for that and not Paige/Henry. I also wish Paige had told Henry that she and her sisters had recreated the world twice to be perfect, and both times had unimaginable consequences. That would have been a natural way to honor two major plots on this show. Of course the show ignored it, so Henry could fall of a bridge).

Paige/Victor - I know I harp on these two, but it's because the show refuses to explain their dynamic to the audience. In one of the early episodes, the sisters cast a spell so family members can see each other as they are and not their new identities. Victor sees Paige as she is. Again, I wouldn't mind if Victor/Paige saw each other as family if the show at least explained to me that they do. It would even somewhat make sense if they did. At this point they've known each other at least 3 years and some change Seasons 5,6,7,8. They share family members, and it's easy to bond with someone who is literally helping to save the lives of your daughters and grandsons on a weekly basis. But the show doesn't actually tell us this. There's also a moment when Paige is distraught in an early episode and Victor - not Leo who is also in this scene - is the one to go to Paige to console her and give her a small pep talk. However, Victor is not at Paige's wedding. In the series finale, he sharply informs Patty that Sam is "Paige's father." There seems to be some latent hostility there. Also in the series finale, I'm pretty sure the two never embrace as everyone is hugging each other. In the series finale, Piper tells Victor that Phoebe and Paige died at the same time, so it's hard to gauge how much he cares about their individual deaths. Though he doesn't seem to care much at all to be honest. This includes his nonreaction to Phoebe's death. 

Piper/Leo - I wish the show had killed Leo off. At this point, Leo is literally walking in and out of scenes with not much use. He randomly has a lollipop addiction this season. One episode centers around him playing golf. Another episode centers him skiing. I honestly would have loved the delicious irony of Piper constantly complaining about wanting a normal life, and her husband dying in a normal car accident. I wish the episode was about Paige/Piper - Phoebe is blatantly absent from the Leo "death" storyline - trying to discover magic is behind this, and Piper comes to the realization that a normal life includes normal tragedy. That being said, I actually didn't like Vaya Con Leos as much as I thought I would from memory. HMC gives a good performance, but I found myself more annoyed than moved. When Piper called the Avatar and Elder to speak to her and said how much Leo sacrificed for them, I could only think that Leo betrayed both of them for Piper and his family. I also think Leo being put on ice showed how he'd lost his purpose on the show. (Personally, I don't think he ever had much of one outside of Piper). Nothing changed. Phoebe was still selfish and looking for love. I don't know if AM even pretended to squeeze out a tear. Paige got a good scene with Henry at the end of Leos, but she is oddly encouraging Piper to date Fireman Greg a few episodes later. Piper is complaining as she always does. Except now, instead of complaining about a normal life, she's complaining about needing Leo. Billie says she sees Leo as family, but the two barely know each other. Wyatt is the one who cares the most, but this leads to the subplot in Payback's a Witch which makes me wonder why Piper won't bind his powers.

Christy/Binding Powers/Killing a Mortal - This leads me to what this show is hoping to make a moral quandary this season: killing a human. First, I'm so confused why the show is focusing so much on Billie/Christy being human. Technically, don't the Charmed Ones kill humans every other week. They've gone up against several evil witches and vanquished them with no remorse. Also, depending on the episode, warlocks are humans. Granted we know some are evil familiars, and I assume they can procreate, but we know evil witches become warlocks. The Charmed Ones themselves became warlocks. That's never stopped them from vanquishing warlocks. We also know some demons are former humans. in Wrestling with Demons, Ron Pearlman showed his arm and that he had all the stripes to be a full demon. This means he was a former human in that episode. They had no qualms vanquishing him. Aren't the many things they transform into: Furies, Wendigos, Vampires, Banshees, etc. all former witches. Hell, aren't some of them former witches in a tremendous amount of emotional pain like Furies and Banshees who are victims of those creatures. In Styx Feet Under the "demon" guy never killed his cousin, so he was still human. Death even took his soul. Cole was half human and so was Phoebe's baby, but that didn't stop them from vanquishing them. Even if you want to move away from evil supernatural beings, the whitelighters the Charmed Ones attacked as werewolves were former humans who were such good beings they were rewarded with a supernatural afterlife helping people. They never showed remorse for mauling those whitelighters. Based on Leo being a former human turned whitelighter/elder and Witches in Tights having a good witch become an elder, the Elders are former human beings, but Piper showed no remorse for Leo killing Uncle Phil elder who never posed any physical or emotional threat. 

If we get away from all magical creatures regardless of good/evil, Prue killed Ms. Hellfire in Season 2, and she used the opportunity to wear the woman's clothes and take a vacation from her overly stressed life. The witchunter in Witch Way Now was killed by Cole but the Charmed Ones never showed any remorse over it and even seemed relieved he couldn't expose them as witches. In Season 6 Paige/Phoebe allowed the guy in Hyde School Reunion to get sprayed with acid. In Season 6, Paige/Phoebe stole Daryll's soul effectively killing him for the Vahalla plot. 

Then there are the things were it seems natural to believe people died even if they didn't show us people dying. Piper in Oh My Goddess attempting to destroy the world. Wyatt's dragon in the Cleaners episode - forgot the name and don't wanna Google - should have killed at least a few thousand people. In that same episode, Piper casts a spell to make the Golden Gate Bridge disappear, and I'm certain that bridge wasn't empty.

It seems odd that after 8 seasons; the show finally wants to focus on human/witch death. It's also odd that they focus more on the legality of killing than the morality of killing. Everyone says, "it's illegal" but what about whether it's moral or not. It's also kinda hilarious because after these questions, the show has Billie kill Christy and the Charmed Ones don't even care. I honestly laughed out loud as Billie is on her knees having an emotional breakdown and the Charmed Ones just look at her and leave. Like there is even dialogue in the next scene where they say they left her there to cry and she'll use her projection power to get back. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Forever Charmed - This seems like a great time to talk about the series finale. You know, for whatever was happening between AM/SD behind the scenes, I find it interesting that HMC is the real winner in that feud. HMC was barely a supporting character in the first 2 seasons. The show was obviously more focused on SD/AM which meant they were focused on Prue/Phoebe. While Piper is more likable in those seasons, she also doesn't have much to do. Forever Charmed is pretty much the legacy of Piper show. Her Grams, her parents, her husband, her sons, her grandchildren, her manor, her legacy. I know RM was filming the Quentin Tarantino movie around this time and AM was...somewhere. But the episode is all about Piper. I also don't care for Grams in this episode. At this point, the Charmed Ones have visited her at least twice in the past: That 70s Episode and Witchstock. I honestly don't think she'll ever faint because she's seeing Patty. She'll assume it's some spell gone awry. Also, why is she shocked her 3 granddaughters - technically 4 - are the Charmed Ones. Isn't that the prophecy. The show treats Grams like an idiot, and she's never been dumb. 

That being said. Once we get past the first 38 minutes of the Perils of Piper telecast, I actually do like the last few minutes of the series. Seeing each sister write in the book is emotionally fulfilling. I also think each one shows a good understanding of who the character is at this point in the show. I do like that each sister has three kids. I even somewhat think it's appropriate for Phoebe to have the three daughters. I also really like the picture of Piper/Phoebe/Paige hanging on the wall, and I love the "we've truly been Charmed" line from old Piper. It honestly feels like a perfect almost final line for Charmed. I even like that one of the kids at magic school who can telekinetically orb is named Matthew. (That must be a grandkid as Paige's son is name Henry Jr. and Piper has a daughter. The kid looks like he could be Chris' son).  And while I wish we could have seen Paige close the door, the granddaughter closing the door does go with the Warren Legacy aspect of the show. I'm also happy it's a granddaughter and not a grandson who closes it. 

There are a lot more things I could say about Season 8, but overall, I did enjoy it. I find it really easy to watch, and it didn't aggravate me as much as I thought it would. I would rank the series as such:

Season 3
Season 4
Season 5
Season 2
Season 7
Season 1
Season 8
Season 6

I would rank the characters as such:

Paige
Prue
Piper
Phoebe

I would rank my least favorite characters as such:

Chris
Wyatt (baby/toddler/adult. I dislike all the Wyatts)
Coop
Dan
Jenny

I hope Paramount Plus gives us some type of Charmed Reunion interview that leads into a Charmed: Powers of the Witches Rise reboot starring the Halliwell/Matthews 1st cousins.

Thank you everyone for going on this journey with me. 

Blessed Be

Edited March 2, 2022 by 4evaQuez

[Primal Slayer]

The 2nd half of the season....Phoebe/Paige trying to force Leo/Piper to have sex wasnt a good look then and it isnt a good look now. Chris's hate for his father overwhelming his common sense really is bad. He had no problem breaking up mommy/daddy until he needed to be conceived and starting freaking out.

The spider episode could've been a good one...had it not had that stupid wicked witch subplot with all of the magic characters. Actual demons become such a rarity that its always nice to see them pop up.

The creation of the Cleaners really made things a bit to easy, while I use my headcanon that they were created after Prues death and The Sources demise...would it have been to hard to just give us a little throw away line confirming such a thing instead of pretending like they've been around since forever? Having Phoebe/Paige deal with Agent Sheridan out them would've been a good thing for them to deal with. The whole Tribunal thing was a bit....wacky. It's already awkward that there's no pictures of Prue around the house, having clip shows that are Prue-less make it even more glaringly awkward. Sometimes you should just shelve out the $$$ for a good Shannen clip. 

The lousey tribunal could've judged TCO for a lot but they really chose the wrong things to judge them for. Darryl being given the death sentence in 24hrs was just...laughable. He deserved a better plotted out episode/arc than the one he was given in this episode. Phoebe being stripped of her powers was plain stupid. Especially since she has the most budget friendly powers of them all. Yet somehow Barbas gets out scotch free, how does this episode make any sense? The only "consistent" thing if I even call it that is that Pheebs is 2 for 2 for being stripped of her powers in each of her known lives. The even funnier thing is...the episoded RIGHT AFTER we have demons expose themselves to a human that they dont even kill. Oh and RIGHT after that we have Paige use her magic to create the perfect man...for herself! 

How does Darryl even remember what happened in a timeline that was erased? TCO memories of Wyatt were erased the first time around. Why wouldn't Darryls memories be wiped of what happened? And why doesnt Chris just orb out of police custody when no one is around, he doesnt exist, doesnt have a job, doesnt pay taxes...I'm so beyond ready for S6 to be over with.

How was Gideon able to retain his whitelighter/edlerly abilities after doing so much evil? He was corrupted enough that he should've just turned into a glorified fallen angel.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Primal Slayer

[Primal Slayer]

It's a bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad world....interesting choice for a 2-part finale but...not fully explored to really make an indent. 

The writers really could've made an interesting change by revealing that Chris is from the "bad world" or that Wyatt was swapped out at some point in time. We spent the entire season hunting down every which demon that could "turn" him evil so this would've been the next best thing.

Them messing up the world and making it overtly happy and murder happy....when Phoebe gets shot it wasn't Roses best acting and certainly not written that well. We've seen the sisters on the verge of death plenty and give very good performances yet here it's not played with any real sense of urgency or danger. Paige sheds no wears, she doesn't cradle Phoebe in her arms, its just like she got a finger prick. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Primal Slayer

[Pearson80]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:54 PM, 4evaQuez said:

I'm a little heartbroken as I have to write this final Season 8 review. Once again, I've come to the end of Charmed. As much as I've had some very genuine complaints about Seasons 6-8, I'm actually going to miss rewatching the show. Even at its worst, I truly love it. I found myself liking the last few minutes - and only the last few minutes - of Forever Charmed just as much as the first time.

First, I'll say I actually enjoyed watching Season 8 much more than I was expecting. I honestly dreaded watching this season as I remember hating it so much. As I wrote during my Season 6 review, Season 6 and Season 8 often switch as my least favorite season. That may continue in the future, but as of right now, I enjoyed my Season 8 rewatch more. A large part of that is that I haven't watched Season 8 at all in syndication. Hulkus Pocus and Jung and the Restless are the only episodes I watch during reruns, and I never bought the Season 8 DVDs. Thank you, Peacock. However, that actually made Season 8 really easy to rewatch. I genuinely had no idea what some of the episodes were about, especially later season episodes. I was honestly taken off guard and even surprised by some of the developments. I also think the actresses do a better job this season than last season with their portrayals. This still isn't Seasons 1-5 of Charmed, but it also isn't Season 6.

Billie Jenkins - Billie seems like the best place to start. I remember truly despising this character when she was introduced. As I'm certain we all know, the showrunners planned to have a spinoff with Billie, and they did absolutely everything wrong with introducing the character to the audience. With Paige, it was a slow build to her actually feeling like a main character. With Billie, they told us she is the new POV character and we'll like it or else. However, with a rewatch and knowing how spectacularly the character failed with the Charmed audience, there was no spinoff, and even the writers realized how much the character failed, I honestly didn't hate her as much. Quite frankly, she wasn't even the most annoying character of the season. Coop, Christie, and Phoebe take that prize, in that order. As I mentioned during Season 6, KC is a better actress than DF/Chris. I do think the show at least had a better idea who the character was. She at least does have an excitement for witchcraft and helping innocents. Because the show didn't make her someone's daughter, the show actually does a better job with having her connect with the Charmed Ones. Even though she's Paige's charge, she actually has the strongest relationship with Phoebe. She even helps Phoebe come to some a few narrative climaxes. It's Billie who helps Phoebe realize she misses her old life and she can no longer be Julie in Rewitched. It's Billie that helps Phoebe try to reconnect with her premonitions power after Phoebe had "given up on them" in Hulkus Pocus. Granted this is a stupid development that's happened in Seasons 5 and 6. But Billie still helped. It's Billie that helps Phoebe realize she's disconnected from love in Engaged and Confused. Again, this is stupid as Phoebe has been having this storyline since Season 2. But unlike Chris, Billie does actually seem to care about the sisters, especially Phoebe. Billie is spunky and has just enough youthful snark to set her apart from the protagonists.

That being said, I still don't particularly like the character. The Christy storyline is boring and takes away some of the few likable qualities Billie has. It's also curious since the show seems to lose interest in the storyline. Billie simply projects herself to Christy. The show doesn't even give us a big reunion between the two. The parents are killed and somehow this is Piper's fault in Christy's mind. The actresses also don't work particularly well together. Regardless of what was going on between SD/HMC/AM/RM behind the scenes, in front of the camera, they sold the sister chemistry. Billie/Christy do not. 

I've always hated Billie having telekinesis, and I hate the way KC motions her hands to activate her telekinesis. At this point, telekinesis seems like a cheap power. Everyone has it, and no one has the same flair SD had when using it. Also, Paige/Wyatt/Chris can all telekinetically orb. Why couldn't the show give her a new power? The thought projection power came entirely too fast, and the show gave her no limitations with it. I honestly question why Billie even needs spells when the show establishes she can time travel, transform people, enhance powers, multiply herself and others, etc. This brings me to Billie being the ultimate power. Piper/Phoebe/Paige are supposed to be scared of a relatively new witch with little training who isn't even old enough to drink? After the Source, Cole, Zankou, the Titans and Shax. Demons who literally had decades if not centuries of torturing people and general terror and destruction. The end of the season is laughable when you see a literal college student attempting to destroy witches with 8/5 years of actual experience. It also doesn't help that this feels like the Wyatt/Chris storyline - that I already didn't like - redone. I didn't care about Wyatt/Chris. I care even less about Billie/Christy.

Season 8 - That leads me to Season 8 as a whole. The producers/showrunners always knew this would be the last season. As a result, you can see the show trying to honor the legacy of Charmed. There are callbacks to important storylines, moments, characters, and they get most of the main characters - not named SD but for some reason they think we missed Fireman Greg - back throughout the series. However, that's also one of my big problems with the season. Some of these moments feel forced, unnatural, clunky, and in some cases, they are factually inaccurate. The worse case scenario is obviously Paige forgetting that she helped kill the Source three times in Season 4. Repo Manor is easily one of the worst examples. The show decided to put Size Matters, Power of Three Blondes, Scry Hard and a dash of Astral Monkey and Freaky Phoebe in a blender and pour out the result as a 45 minute episode. If that wasn't bad enough, the demons literally have a scene where they randomly recite Charmed facts and history to their male boss, and this continues after they take the sisters' identity. They aren't even accurate all the time with these recitations. At one point, "Phoebe" talks about how Piper used to guilt trip her about Cole. Piper literally never once guilt tripped her about Cole. Paige never even guilt tripped her about Cole. Prue is the only one who did., and she's long gone. There are a lot of these little errors throughout the season that makes me wonder if someone simply looked at Wikipedia - before it started the many initiatives to make the site as accurate and trustworthy as possible - for these Charmed Easter Eggs. (I also thought Simon the half witch/half whitelighter from a prominent British Wiccan line was incredibly egregious.).

I also hate the way the show does clips and flashbacks. The show has people see and know things they literally did not experience. in Generation Hex, Coop shows Phoebe her past loves. She sees the Season 5 vanquish of Cole. She literally was not there for that. That was not the real Phoebe. I'm even angrier because that wasn't even the best vanquish of Cole. Season 4 was. I feel the same way whenever the show would flashback to Piper's death in All Hell Breaks Loose.. The only person who should remember that is Leo. Piper/Prue never experienced it since time rewound. Phoebe is in the underworld and never saw it. Leo saw her dead body, but he had no details as to what happened. "They think we're the demons now" is all Prue told him. The show does the same thing with having Billie see future evil Wyatt from Chris Crossed. Except, that moment never happens because Chris changed the future. I just find it aggravating. 

Also, while there are quite a few episodes that feel like leftovers from past seasons, Lost Picture Show, pretty much lifted the same Paige/Sam dialogue from Season 5 for the Season 8 episode. Like I'm pretty sure it's copy and pasted. 

Paige/Henry - Is easily one of the things I like most about the season. They have a first meeting that fits both their personalities. Because of the limited time to the finale, they mostly get relatable obstacles like misunderstanding of their first "date," who pays the bill, Paige not wanting to lose her identity, etc. They are rarely the A plot, but even when they are, they carry the episode well. Payback's a Witch is one of my favorites. I also think they are one of the best couples. Phoebe/Cole and Piper/Leo both fundamentally changed the characters and the show. Paige/Henry are two people who are not in some forbidden love to change all loves. They are just two people who want to spend their life together regardless of their flaws. That's pretty inspiring in its own way. (The Coop subplot with Paige being put in Henry's head is the only thing that somewhat annoys me. I blame Coop for that and not Paige/Henry. I also wish Paige had told Henry that she and her sisters had recreated the world twice to be perfect, and both times had unimaginable consequences. That would have been a natural way to honor two major plots on this show. Of course the show ignored it, so Henry could fall of a bridge).

Paige/Victor - I know I harp on these two, but it's because the show refuses to explain their dynamic to the audience. In one of the early episodes, the sisters cast a spell so family members can see each other as they are and not their new identities. Victor sees Paige as she is. Again, I wouldn't mind if Victor/Paige saw each other as family if the show at least explained to me that they do. It would even somewhat make sense if they did. At this point they've known each other at least 3 years and some change Seasons 5,6,7,8. They share family members, and it's easy to bond with someone who is literally helping to save the lives of your daughters and grandsons on a weekly basis. But the show doesn't actually tell us this. There's also a moment when Paige is distraught in an early episode and Victor - not Leo who is also in this scene - is the one to go to Paige to console her and give her a small pep talk. However, Victor is not at Paige's wedding. In the series finale, he sharply informs Patty that Sam is "Paige's father." There seems to be some latent hostility there. Also in the series finale, I'm pretty sure the two never embrace as everyone is hugging each other. In the series finale, Piper tells Victor that Phoebe and Paige died at the same time, so it's hard to gauge how much he cares about their individual deaths. Though he doesn't seem to care much at all to be honest. This includes his nonreaction to Phoebe's death. 

Piper/Leo - I wish the show had killed Leo off. At this point, Leo is literally walking in and out of scenes with not much use. He randomly has a lollipop addiction this season. One episode centers around him playing golf. Another episode centers him skiing. I honestly would have loved the delicious irony of Piper constantly complaining about wanting a normal life, and her husband dying in a normal car accident. I wish the episode was about Paige/Piper - Phoebe is blatantly absent from the Leo "death" storyline - trying to discover magic is behind this, and Piper comes to the realization that a normal life includes normal tragedy. That being said, I actually didn't like Vaya Con Leos as much as I thought I would from memory. HMC gives a good performance, but I found myself more annoyed than moved. When Piper called the Avatar and Elder to speak to her and said how much Leo sacrificed for them, I could only think that Leo betrayed both of them for Piper and his family. I also think Leo being put on ice showed how he'd lost his purpose on the show. (Personally, I don't think he ever had much of one outside of Piper). Nothing changed. Phoebe was still selfish and looking for love. I don't know if AM even pretended to squeeze out a tear. Paige got a good scene with Henry at the end of Leos, but she is oddly encouraging Piper to date Fireman Greg a few episodes later. Piper is complaining as she always does. Except now, instead of complaining about a normal life, she's complaining about needing Leo. Billie says she sees Leo as family, but the two barely know each other. Wyatt is the one who cares the most, but this leads to the subplot in Payback's a Witch which makes me wonder why Piper won't bind his powers.

Christy/Binding Powers/Killing a Mortal - This leads me to what this show is hoping to make a moral quandary this season: killing a human. First, I'm so confused why the show is focusing so much on Billie/Christy being human. Technically, don't the Charmed Ones kill humans every other week. They've gone up against several evil witches and vanquished them with no remorse. Also, depending on the episode, warlocks are humans. Granted we know some are evil familiars, and I assume they can procreate, but we know evil witches become warlocks. The Charmed Ones themselves became warlocks. That's never stopped them from vanquishing warlocks. We also know some demons are former humans. in Wrestling with Demons, Ron Pearlman showed his arm and that he had all the stripes to be a full demon. This means he was a former human in that episode. They had no qualms vanquishing him. Aren't the many things they transform into: Furies, Wendigos, Vampires, Banshees, etc. all former witches. Hell, aren't some of them former witches in a tremendous amount of emotional pain like Furies and Banshees who are victims of those creatures. In Styx Feet Under the "demon" guy never killed his cousin, so he was still human. Death even took his soul. Cole was half human and so was Phoebe's baby, but that didn't stop them from vanquishing them. Even if you want to move away from evil supernatural beings, the whitelighters the Charmed Ones attacked as werewolves were former humans who were such good beings they were rewarded with a supernatural afterlife helping people. They never showed remorse for mauling those whitelighters. Based on Leo being a former human turned whitelighter/elder and Witches in Tights having a good witch become an elder, the Elders are former human beings, but Piper showed no remorse for Leo killing Uncle Phil elder who never posed any physical or emotional threat. 

If we get away from all magical creatures regardless of good/evil, Prue killed Ms. Hellfire in Season 2, and she used the opportunity to wear the woman's clothes and take a vacation from her overly stressed life. The witchunter in Witch Way Now was killed by Cole but the Charmed Ones never showed any remorse over it and even seemed relieved he couldn't expose them as witches. In Season 6 Paige/Phoebe allowed the guy in Hyde School Reunion to get sprayed with acid. In Season 6, Paige/Phoebe stole Daryll's soul effectively killing him for the Vahalla plot. 

Then there are the things were it seems natural to believe people died even if they didn't show us people dying. Piper in Oh My Goddess attempting to destroy the world. Wyatt's dragon in the Cleaners episode - forgot the name and don't wanna Google - should have killed at least a few thousand people. In that same episode, Piper casts a spell to make the Golden Gate Bridge disappear, and I'm certain that bridge wasn't empty.

It seems odd that after 8 seasons; the show finally wants to focus on human/witch death. It's also odd that they focus more on the legality of killing than the morality of killing. Everyone says, "it's illegal" but what about whether it's moral or not. It's also kinda hilarious because after these questions, the show has Billie kill Christy and the Charmed Ones don't even care. I honestly laughed out loud as Billie is on her knees having an emotional breakdown and the Charmed Ones just look at her and leave. Like there is even dialogue in the next scene where they say they left her there to cry and she'll use her projection power to get back. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Forever Charmed - This seems like a great time to talk about the series finale. You know, for whatever was happening between AM/SD behind the scenes, I find it interesting that HMC is the real winner in that feud. HMC was barely a supporting character in the first 2 seasons. The show was obviously more focused on SD/AM which meant they were focused on Prue/Phoebe. While Piper is more likable in those seasons, she also doesn't have much to do. Forever Charmed is pretty much the legacy of Piper show. Her Grams, her parents, her husband, her sons, her grandchildren, her manor, her legacy. I know RM was filming the Quentin Tarantino movie around this time and AM was...somewhere. But the episode is all about Piper. I also don't care for Grams in this episode. At this point, the Charmed Ones have visited her at least twice in the past: That 70s Episode and Witchstock. I honestly don't think she'll ever faint because she's seeing Patty. She'll assume it's some spell gone awry. Also, why is she shocked her 3 granddaughters - technically 4 - are the Charmed Ones. Isn't that the prophecy. The show treats Grams like an idiot, and she's never been dumb. 

That being said. Once we get past the first 38 minutes of the Perils of Piper telecast, I actually do like the last few minutes of the series. Seeing each sister write in the book is emotionally fulfilling. I also think each one shows a good understanding of who the character is at this point in the show. I do like that each sister has three kids. I even somewhat think it's appropriate for Phoebe to have the three daughters. I also really like the picture of Piper/Phoebe/Paige hanging on the wall, and I love the "we've truly been Charmed" line from old Piper. It honestly feels like a perfect almost final line for Charmed. I even like that one of the kids at magic school who can telekinetically orb is named Matthew. (That must be a grandkid as Paige's son is name Henry Jr. and Piper has a daughter. The kid looks like he could be Chris' son).  And while I wish we could have seen Paige close the door, the granddaughter closing the door does go with the Warren Legacy aspect of the show. I'm also happy it's a granddaughter and not a grandson who closes it. 

There are a lot more things I could say about Season 8, but overall, I did enjoy it. I find it really easy to watch, and it didn't aggravate me as much as I thought it would. I would rank the series as such:

Season 3
Season 4
Season 5
Season 2
Season 7
Season 1
Season 8
Season 6

I would rank the characters as such:

Paige
Prue
Piper
Phoebe

I would rank my least favorite characters as such:

Chris
Wyatt (baby/toddler/adult. I dislike all the Wyatts)
Coop
Dan
Jenny

I hope Paramount Plus gives us some type of Charmed Reunion interview that leads into a Charmed: Powers of the Witches Rise reboot starring the Halliwell/Matthews 1st cousins.

Thank you everyone for going on this journey with me. 

Blessed Be

I absolutely hated season 8 but I love reading your perspective on it.  It showed me that you are a fan of the show and was able to find enjoyable moments in season 8.

I did like that the season finale centered around Piper since she was always the heart of the show when Prue was alive.  Piper just became an intolerable bitch during the Paige years.  I never understood her romance with Leo, it was cute in season 1 but I never saw Leo being the man that Piper would marry and have children with.

As a Prue fan it just pissed me off how Prue was excised from the show and the season finale was just adding insult to injury.  It is like Prue never existed and she was an important person in Piper and Phoebe's life. Piper and Phoebe never had moments where they spoke about her. Once they found Paige the show acted like they had grown up with her and Prue was an afterthought. 

[Primal Slayer]

31 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

As a Prue fan it just pissed me off how Prue was excised from the show and the season finale was just adding insult to injury.  It is like Prue never existed and she was an important person in Piper and Phoebe's life. Piper and Phoebe never had moments where they spoke about her. Once they found Paige the show acted like they had grown up with her and Prue was an afterthought. 

The disdain they had for Shannen and thus Prue bts really showed throughout the years.

Quote

To this day, fans note with disapproval that all photos of Prue vanished from the manor after her death — but it turns out there’s a very good reason for that:
Explains Kern, “I tried like crazy to get her in flashbacks and to have photographs of her on the walls, but what I was told — and I’ve subsequently been told that this is not the case — by the studio that we would have to pay her per-episode fee, which we couldn’t afford, if we were even just going to use a photo of her. That’s what I was told.”

Quote

Despite Prue’s memory factoring into the series finale, “there was no talk about bringing [Shannen Doherty] back physically,” Kern says. “We just didn’t believe it could ever happen — that she would ever want to do it, or the network would want to do it. And we may have been wrong. She might have jumped at the chance. But there were a lot of internal issues that led up to her leaving … on a lot of different people’s sides. It just felt like that was probably not ever going to be able to happen. That was the prevailing opinion at the time.”

Quote

“You can’t end Charmed without honoring Prue,” he acknowledges, “but the powers that be made it clear that it was either almost impossible to accomplish, or it was going to cost us a lot of money. So I had to make the choice: Do I pay the money for the one photo and not be able to afford to bring back Patty, Grams or even Leo?”

Quote

Brad Kern, executive producer of The WB's Charmed, told SCI FI Wire that he didn't ask original cast member Shannen Doherty to join a host of returning actors for the series' upcoming finale and added that he had his reasons. Doherty's character, Prue Halliwell, was killed off in 2001; though the series' magical storylines would have allowed the return of the character, Kern said: "There are a lot of issues, mostly internal and financial, as to why we didn't ask Shannen back." He added in an interview on the show's set on March 28: "Prue's memory will be kept [alive] and be honored, but we didn't ask Shannen to come back. ... The show is more about the sisters who are here, not the one who's not." Indeed, the character of Paige (played by Rose McGowan starting in 2001) has been on the series longer than Doherty's Prue.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Season 7 is an improvement over S6 but..the Avatar storyline is kind of weak.

Ever since Leo became an Elder he essentially has gone against everything he ever believed in S1-5. Whitelighters and thus Elders are supposed to be pacifists so how the hell does Leo have a power that can kill people. There's Something About Leo is a decent episode up until The Avatars come at the end and have him rewind time because no one is able to understanding the truth. How can an Avatar save themselves when they already been hit with an Avatar killing potion? Going back wont save said Avatar or else they'd never have anything to be afraid of. Leo killing Brody was once again way out of character and the writers/Piper forget that Piper has this little power that freezes time. She easily could've frozen Brody when he was distracted by Leo.

It was such a waste of an episode for Leo to reveal himself as an Avatar and reverse ALL OF IT only for THE VERY NEXT EPISODE to reveal that he's an Avatar...and the Avatars don't care.

Paige went 2 seasons without any type of long term love interest to a love interest in S6 that was largely off screen to Agent Brody. The girl seems to like guys with issues lol. Brody overall is an ok character but it's a shame that the writers didnt find a better way to pair him with Darryl.

Kyra was the best recurring character to happen to the show in a long time and they ruin it by killing her off. It's funny that she has info on how to kill upper level demons....what upper level demons? The ones that are dirty and look homeless?

Those are what we call upper level demons nowadays?

[Pearson80]

I wanted to ask you guys, how would you have dealt with the events of all hell breaks loose with Prue being alive in season 4.

I would have had Astral Prue cast a spell to save Prue and Piper. There would be no consequences for them like it was when Prue and Phoebe healed Piper in season 2.

Meanwhile Phoebe has a premonition where she sees that the source intended to double cross them so she is able to alert Leo who takes her back to the manor, fearing the worst.. 

Shax continues to be a threat to the sisters throughout season 4 and that triggers the sisters original powers to advance..

Edited March 18, 2022 by Pearson80

[Primal Slayer]

19 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

I wanted to ask you guys, how would you have dealt with the events of all hell breaks loose with Prue being alive in season 4.

I would have had Astral Prue cast a spell to save Prue and Piper. There would be no consequences for them like it was when Prue and Phoebe healed Piper in season 2.

Meanwhile Phoebe has a premonition where she sees that the source intended to double cross them so she is able to alert Leo who takes her back to the manor, fearing the worst.. 

Shax continues to be a threat to the sisters throughout season 4 and that triggers the sisters original powers to advance..

I never thought of it until reading your version of events but I'd have Prue unintentionally astral project to the underworld. She'd warn Leo of what just happened. Leo orbs back to the manor and is able to heal Prue & Piper but....Prue isnt waking up. 

Flash to Prue/Phoebe/Cole in the underworld fighting off demons trying to escape but failing endlessly. 

Flash to Leo/Piper, Piper freaking out about what just happened, dead doctor, unconscious Prue. Darryl calls her warning her that the cops are on the way due to all of the commotion which is stopping Piper from getting to her sisters. 

Prue w.out her TK, Phoebe w/no real active powers, and Cole are having a hard time fending off demons so Cole must give into his Belthazor mode to help them gain the upper advantage. 

They run across The Oracle which helps Phoebe get a premonition boost for mysterious reasons and she is able to get quick flashes to the future which helps them gain the upperhand. The Oracle under threat of being vanquished helps Phoebe/Cole get out of the underworld. But Prue is stuck.

We come to find out that Prues astral form is stuck in the underworld as Prue isn't strong enough to Astral to that kind of location but her will to get help as she/Piper were dying got her to Leo. Prue's physical body is essentially in a coma and of course after everything that just went down 911/Cops have taken her to the hospital .

This would be a 2 part Premiere. 2nd part is back to the underworld to try and get Prue back to her body with an active investigation going on throughout the season. 

[Primal Slayer]

Season 7 in general also sadly starts the downward spiral of the shows overall budget. Imo...once a show is forced to stop shooting on location, it's time to wrap it up. The Paramount lot is fine to use every now and then but it becomes the main place to film when out in public and no amount of redressing the street makes it look anyless cheap.

Ordinary Witches really keeps playing with an annoying aspect of the show that started happening around late S5/early S6...Piper/Phoebe are switching powers and it takes its time going into one another, Zankou appears and causes their powers to run away into 2 random people nearby. It started happening with whitelighters where they are in mid orb but are still able to be harmed even though S1-4 when Leo or Paige orbs its pretty instant and objects just go straight through the orbs. Phoebe and Piper also freeze when blonde neighbor gets Pipers powers...their still witches, they cant freeze but of course the writers just forget that very important aspect. This isnt a 70s episode where they go to the past basically null and voiding everything magical about themselves.

It's also interesting to note that the guy who gets premonitions is getting more premintions then Phoebe gets in an entire season lol and it's what he wants to see. It also makes zero sense as to why Phoebe is able to share the possible future Krya shared with her. It's a cool advancement to her prems but thats literally all they use it for, she can't even show it to Piper.

Between Chris and the Avatars, I'm not sure how there are any pseudo-important demons left lol. They send TCO after demons left and right off screen with a tiny little potions, its just a simple throw and onto the next one. It's like a drive thru vanquish service S6-8.

[Primal Slayer]

Koche did a brand new interview with a producer on the show for their exclusive Complete series (that I love, it's so nice, even if its in German apart from the episodes lol ) 

His most interesting part of the interview:

"Shannen was nice to almost everyday, she had script problems, always nice to the cast, she was the HEART AND SOUL OF CHARMED" That really says it all doesn't it? She viewed Charmed as her baby.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Season 7 in general also sadly starts the downward spiral of the shows overall budget. Imo...once a show is forced to stop shooting on location, it's time to wrap it up. The Paramount lot is fine to use every now and then but it becomes the main place to film when out in public and no amount of redressing the street makes it look anyless cheap.

Ordinary Witches really keeps playing with an annoying aspect of the show that started happening around late S5/early S6...Piper/Phoebe are switching powers and it takes its time going into one another, Zankou appears and causes their powers to run away into 2 random people nearby. It started happening with whitelighters where they are in mid orb but are still able to be harmed even though S1-4 when Leo or Paige orbs its pretty instant and objects just go straight through the orbs. Phoebe and Piper also freeze when blonde neighbor gets Pipers powers...their still witches, they cant freeze but of course the writers just forget that very important aspect. This isnt a 70s episode where they go to the past basically null and voiding everything magical about themselves.

It's also interesting to note that the guy who gets premonitions is getting more premintions then Phoebe gets in an entire season lol and it's what he wants to see. It also makes zero sense as to why Phoebe is able to share the possible future Krya shared with her. It's a cool advancement to her prems but thats literally all they use it for, she can't even show it to Piper.

Between Chris and the Avatars, I'm not sure how there are any pseudo-important demons left lol. They send TCO after demons left and right off screen with a tiny little potions, its just a simple throw and onto the next one. It's like a drive thru vanquish service S6-8.

I feel a little bad for the guy. He kept getting premonitions of his wife cheating on him with his buddies.

[Writing Wrongs]

I just discovered Charmed Rewind on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzSaABvhwN1OuNLVTYriPyqvQ4WCCeD6x

It is done by Lupa who did the Charmed Manic Episodes. They are hilarious.

[Writing Wrongs]

I was remembering how Season 1 & 2 Phoebe always had random jobs or reasons why she had to quit.

She was a hospital volunteer in one episode. A fortune teller in one.

She had to quit Bucklands after a day because she couldn't touch the antiques in case of possible premonitions. She quit the one day real estate job because she didn't agree with her boss having an affair.

I guess she was waiting for her Ask Phoebe job.

[Pearson80]

On 3/24/2022 at 4:13 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

I was remembering how Season 1 & 2 Phoebe always had random jobs or reasons why she had to quit.

She was a hospital volunteer in one episode. A fortune teller in one.

She had to quit Bucklands after a day because she couldn't touch the antiques in case of possible premonitions. She quit the one day real estate job because she didn't agree with her boss having an affair.

I guess she was waiting for her Ask Phoebe job.

I loved Phoebe not going the traditional route to find her purpose in life when it came to her career.  I loved how in season 1 and 2, Constance was showing how she was growing and changing becoming more responsible.  I wonder how season 3 Phoebe would have been with Constance writing her growth and maturity.

[Primal Slayer]

US Blu-ray coming. No new packaging through

[Spartan Girl]

Watching “A Call to Arms” and I’m sorry but I loved Leo throwing Sheridan into the wall. Although Daryl can STFU yelling at Leo what the hell was wrong with him when Bitch Cop was the one that burst into their house with a gun without so much as a warrant, which Darryl himself pointed out was wrong, but did nothing to stop her because he was trying to cover his own ass.

Remind me why he and the sisters wound up friends again?

[magicdog]

On 5/8/2022 at 11:03 AM, Pearson80 said:

I wonder how season 3 Phoebe would have been with Constance writing her growth and maturity.

I suspect she would have been like Paige in Season 4 - working as a social worker or counselor of some sort.  It seemed that way based on her abilities, her empathy (had it been written correctly) and her studies at college.  She never would have ended up at The Bay Mirror with an advice column.  Although Connie Burge didn't approve of Cole's character, I would have loved a better resolution for him.  At the very least get back to why his father's soul was sealed in that glowing orb and other things about his background.

I'd also like to think the powers would have been written properly and show them progress naturally.  The sisters were supposed to have three powers each and once Paige entered the picture, she was a wildcard of powers!

I definitely agree that the sisters were shortchanged in the "power" department.  It seemed every enemy they went up against was able to do stuff they couldn't!  Even the Stillman sisters had cool abilities!  Once it was announced Billie and Kristie were meant to be the Ultimate Power, I was seriously peeved!  They were not supposed to be the most powerful witches the world had ever known (something that was told to viewed literally from day 1).

In the department of wishful thinking:

One storyline I think TPTB should have done (somewhere between season 3 and 5) was have an April Fool's episode in which we see an episode of Charmed in progress, but have all the genders reversed!  I had imagined Victor being the "Patty" and perhaps another actor pulled in to be "Gramps", while Brian Krause, Julian McMahon and maybe TW King played the Charmed siblings.  Since it would be a one off, who cares if some of the characters they played were dead or evil by then?

[Pearson80]

17 hours ago, magicdog said:

I suspect she would have been like Paige in Season 4 - working as a social worker or counselor of some sort.  It seemed that way based on her abilities, her empathy (had it been written correctly) and her studies at college.  She never would have ended up at The Bay Mirror with an advice column.  Although Connie Burge didn't approve of Cole's character, I would have loved a better resolution for him.  At the very least get back to why his father's soul was sealed in that glowing orb and other things about his background.

I don't think that Constance would have given Cole the backstory that Kern gave him in order to elicit sympathy from the audience.  She wanted him to be pure evil targeting Phoebe who was considered the weakest of the sisters in order to destroy the power of 3.  If Constance had continued with the show in season 3, I would have wanted Phoebe to figure out that Cole was evil due to her growing premonitions to orchestrate his vanquish with her sisters.  It really sickened me that Kern had Phoebe betray her sisters for Cole. Constance had every right to protest and quit, Phoebe in character would have never done that.  What a load of bull!

17 hours ago, magicdog said:

I'd also like to think the powers would have been written properly and show them progress naturally.  The sisters were supposed to have three powers each and once Paige entered the picture, she was a wildcard of powers!

Connie definitely had a plan for the original sisters.  I wanted to see how she would have advanced the sisters original powers while giving them 2 other powers. Piper and Phoebe's second powers that Kern gave them did not fit them at all.  I never understood why Paige had so much powers.  She should have just had telekinesis like Prue and her powers should have grown from there.  The whitelighters eventually took over the show and overshadowed the sisters heritage as Warren witches. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Pearson80

[Primal Slayer]

I think having Phoebe betray her sisters out of love was a good storyline imo. Even Buffy couldnt bring herself to kill Angelus at first and kept it hidden when Angel returned. It happens to the best of us. 

Powers yes, I pretty much believe that they gave Phoebe levitation as a gift to Alyssa and it made zero sense as opposed to how they were already discussing Prues 2nd power in s1. 

I went from loving Pipers 2nd power to wishing it had never become a thing with how it was used to easily solve countless demonic problems. And her constantly threatning to blow up innocents was....not a good look and something that they never even tried out. Constance put in a false safe with her original power not affecting witches, Im sure she would've done the same with the 2nd power.

Paige went from a unique hybrid to just another whitelighter which pissed me off to no end. TKO/Orbing, Im cool with and then she should've gained a power that was strictly on the witch side. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just finished rewatching Hulkus Pocus (its taking me FOREVER to finish S8) and Phoebes premonition as we know became rather useless but it advances to the point where she can literally talk with her future self...talk about missed storyline. In fact it would've made more sense for her to survive the big fight in Forever Charmed and use her powers to force one on Patty when she's still pregnant with Phoebe and somehow time travel or do whatever, same with other versions of herself.

Of course it also can work into Morality Bites where she is able to channel her premintions through others forcing them to relive the most traumatic parts of their lives or others lives.

[Primal Slayer]

Repo Manor has to be one of the dumbest episodes and really showed that the writers did not understand The Power of 3. The vanquish was also stupid with the 3 demons just standing there staring at Billie as she reads a spell.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Of course it also can work into Morality Bites where she is able to channel her premintions through others forcing them to relive the most traumatic parts of their lives or others lives.

I wish they had come back to this episode later in the series. At the time it seemed impossible that the sisters would ever break any rules but in the later seasons when they clearly were. The horrible episode were Phoebe and Paige allow someone be murdered. Even without that episode they had been through a lot and it was more likely that they would. After years of dealing with demons, the souce, and having a sister murdered on top of their mother being murdered. It would have been interesting for them to explore.

[magicdog]

I'd always thought they missed a golden opportunity to bring back MB's event full circle. 

When Phoebe gets a job at The Bay Mirror, one of the sportswriters is doing an interview with Cal Green (the man who according to the vision and Leo's exposition in that episode brutalizes Phoebe's friend and Phoebe uses her magic to punish him).

Then we learn Cal Green (who is unknown to Paige or his relationship to the events in MB) asks Paige out on a date.  Perhaps he drugs her drink or does something equally horrible and this sets off Phoebe and she is doing everything she can to avoid using her powers on him.  Then the sisters find an alternate way to set things right.  

[Pearson80]

4 hours ago, magicdog said:

I'd always thought they missed a golden opportunity to bring back MB's event full circle. 

When Phoebe gets a job at The Bay Mirror, one of the sportswriters is doing an interview with Cal Green (the man who according to the vision and Leo's exposition in that episode brutalizes Phoebe's friend and Phoebe uses her magic to punish him).

Then we learn Cal Green (who is unknown to Paige or his relationship to the events in MB) asks Paige out on a date.  Perhaps he drugs her drink or does something equally horrible and this sets off Phoebe and she is doing everything she can to avoid using her powers on him.  Then the sisters find an alternate way to set things right.  

I think that Constance would have brought Cal Greene back though. If Cole was vanquished by the sisters in season 3 as Constance wanted. I could see Pratt coming back to investigate the sisters as the new DA in season 4.  

On 6/11/2022 at 3:46 PM, Primal Slayer said:

I think having Phoebe betray her sisters out of love was a good storyline imo. Even Buffy couldnt bring herself to kill Angelus at first and kept it hidden when Angel returned. It happens to the best of us. 

Kern cited Buffy as the reason as to why he wanted Phoebe to betray her sisters because he wanted to recreate Angelus/Buffy and Constance objected because she said that would change Phoebe forever and she was correct. Phoebe never came back from her romance with Cole.  Kern got Aaron Spelling to back him leading to Constance leaving the show.

I would have preferred to see Constance realize her vision for her show. Perhaps if she had stayed she could have mitigated the damage that Kern eventually did to the  4 sisters.  He killed off Prue, he turned Piper into a bitter nasty shrew and Phoebe became selfish and obsessed with having a baby.  Paige was promising but she was just Phoebe lite after all was said and done. Kern had no clue on how to write for her.  The show became all about the men.  Cole, Wyatt, Chris, and especially that dolt Leo dominated.

On 6/11/2022 at 3:46 PM, Primal Slayer said:

I went from loving Pipers 2nd power to wishing it had never become a thing with how it was used to easily solve countless demonic problems. And her constantly threatning to blow up innocents was....not a good look and something that they never even tried out. Constance put in a false safe with her original power not affecting witches, Im sure she would've done the same with the 2nd power.

I would have preferred that Piper get the ability to create fire as her offensive power.  Prue should have been the one to be able to blow up things with her advanced telekinesis like she did in morality bites.  We never saw Piper freezing advance at all.  She rarely froze demons and people after Prue died. She just blew up demons and she got too powerful too fast and she actually became invincible when she was pregnant with Wyatt who should have been Melinda as Constance wanted. 

On 6/11/2022 at 3:46 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Powers yes, I pretty much believe that they gave Phoebe levitation as a gift to Alyssa and it made zero sense as opposed to how they were already discussing Prues 2nd power in s1. 

Kern said that he gave Phoebe levitation to make Alyssa happy. I always felt that Constance wanted Phoebe to have the most unique powers in the power of 3. Notice how she always had Phoebe complain about not having cool powers like her older sisters. I think  that she had a plan and that Phoebe's second and third powers would have been super awesome.  Phoebe should have met a powerful Warren Witch from the past who only had premonitions to boost her confidence.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Pearson80

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Pearson80 said:

Kern cited Buffy as the reason as to why he wanted Phoebe to betray her sisters because he wanted to recreate Angelus/Buffy and Constance objected because she said that would change Phoebe forever and she was correct. Phoebe never came back from her romance with Cole.  Kern got Aaron Spelling to back him leading to Constance leaving the show.

I would have preferred to see Constance realize her vision for her show. Perhaps if she had stayed she could have mitigated the damage that Kern eventually did to the  4 sisters.  He killed off Prue, he turned Piper into a bitter nasty shrew and Phoebe became selfish and obsessed with having a baby.  Paige was promising but she was just Phoebe lite after all was said and done. Kern had no clue on how to write for her.  The show became all about the men.  Cole, Wyatt, Chris, and especially that dolt Leo dominated.

Phoebe lying to her Prue/Piper didnt change her forever. She was the reckless sibling who made mistakes and it was very in line with the character. 

I love Constance but she certainly wasnt the end all be all for every decision. She wanted to keep the show very monster of the week instead of transitioning to more of a serialized storytelling. Even Shannen was growing bored with the way the show was going by the end of S2 and wanted it to be darker and essentially more like Buffy. 

Sadly she's remained very silent on the show and her thoughts on it after she left (I wish someone would do an in-depth interview with her) but she/Kern evened each other out and it definitely never recovered when he got full control in S5. 

[Primal Slayer]

Billies hair is so bad at times during S8...and Rose really phones in majority of her performances each episode. 

And why the hell is there a student in 'Magical School' thats been deserted and taken over by Demons since S7? 

They made Christie into a fire starter and completely fail at connecting her to The Source. They had an entire episode about how they steal kids with fire powers and recruit them to be The Sources personal bodyguards. There is such a good story there.

In Generation Hex they try to do a Cathouse and Phoebe/Coop arent even looking in the right direction lol

Edited June 13, 2022 by Primal Slayer

[Pearson80]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Phoebe lying to her Prue/Piper didnt change her forever. She was the reckless sibling who made mistakes and it was very in line with the character. 

I love Constance but she certainly wasnt the end all be all for every decision. She wanted to keep the show very monster of the week instead of transitioning to more of a serialized storytelling. Even Shannen was growing bored with the way the show was going by the end of S2 and wanted it to be darker and essentially more like Buffy. 

Sadly she's remained very silent on the show and her thoughts on it after she left (I wish someone would do an in-depth interview with her) but she/Kern evened each other out and it definitely never recovered when he got full control in S5. 

I did agree with Kern that the show should be serialized and not just monster of the week. I think that the show should have incorporated monsters of the week while building the show's mythology.  The show should have gotten darker like Shannon wanted.  She and Kern were simpatico in that respect so why did they hate each other so much?

I could understand why she stayed quiet.  She created the show based on her and her 2 older sisters and Kern pushed her out due to the good old boys club.  I remember that she did sue the show for not getting her fair share of the profits.  She did own a percentage of the show just like Shannon.  Shannon owned 2% of the show.

I do think that she and Kern worked wonderfully together and I wished that she had remained with the show despite not being a fan of the Cole/Phoebe relationship.  She could have made it work.  She did not want to keep Leo on the show but she relented when Holly told her that she wanted Leo to be a part of Piper's life in season 2. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Pearson80

[Primal Slayer]

9 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

I did agree with Kern that the show should be serialized and not just monster of the week. I think that the show should have incorporated monsters of the week while building the show's mythology.  The show should have gotten darker like Shannon wanted. 

I could understand why she stayed quiet.  She created the show based on her and her 2 older sisters and Kern pushed her out due to the good old boys club.  I remember that she did sue the show for not getting her fair share of the profits.  She did own a percentage of the show just like Shannon.  Shannon owned 2% of the show.

I do think that she and Kern worked wonderfully together and I wished that she had remained with the show despite not being a fan of the Cole/Phoebe relationship.  She could have made it work.  She did not want to keep Leo on the show but she relented when Holly told her that she wanted Leo to be a part of Piper's life in season 2.

Yeah but she sued CBS in 2011. It had nothing to do with her original time with the show. 

[magicdog]

20 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

I think that Constance would have brought Cal Greene back though. If Cole was vanquished by the sisters in season 3 as Constance wanted. I could see Pratt coming back to investigate the sisters as the new DA in season 4.  

Totally agree!!  I would have loved it if Pratt came back.  It would have solidified him as another mortal antagonist for the sisters.

20 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

I always felt that Constance wanted Phoebe to have the most unique powers in the power of 3. Notice how she always had Phoebe complain about not having cool powers like her older sisters. I think  that she had a plan and that Phoebe's second and third powers would have been super awesome.  Phoebe should have met a powerful Warren Witch from the past who only had premonitions to boost her confidence.

Also agreed.  Each sister was supposed to have three powers each:  an offensive power, a defensive one, and a passive/neutral one.  In "The Eyes Have It", Phoebe finally showed some growth with her premonitions by being able to feel them like one would feel things in the real world (yes she was wearing a Gypsy necklace, but it could have eventually happened as a natural progression).  That would tie into her empathy as well.  Seeing her also communicate with herself in a vision was also a good idea of seeing her progress (not to mention being able to get premonitions on demand regularly).  We never got to see the sisters live up to the potential the "Morality Bites" future showed us.

[Pearson80]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:14 PM, magicdog said:

Also agreed.  Each sister was supposed to have three powers each:  an offensive power, a defensive one, and a passive/neutral one.  In "The Eyes Have It", Phoebe finally showed some growth with her premonitions by being able to feel them like one would feel things in the real world (yes she was wearing a Gypsy necklace, but it could have eventually happened as a natural progression).  That would tie into her empathy as well.  Seeing her also communicate with herself in a vision was also a good idea of seeing her progress (not to mention being able to get premonitions on demand regularly).  We never got to see the sisters live up to the potential the "Morality Bites" future showed us.

Morality Bites was on this morning and it was just awesome. I always make time to watch it if I am free.  What a great hour of television with the focus being solely on the sisters with a little bit of Leo/Piper.  The Leo/Piper relationship and their spawn would later dominate the show and it was obnoxious but I digress.

I loved seeing the sisters being so powerful in the future especially Phoebe.  I wish we had gotten that Phoebe who was a powerful witch. It pains me to know that she was so useless after Constance left.  Even the source mocked her powers. 

Morality Bites should have been the season opener and we should have gotten quality episodes like this  throughout season 2, instead we got Dan's annoying little sister and the stupid triangle of doom.  What I loved about morality Bites the most was how it showed how bad behavior starts with just a little infraction and it gets progressively worst over time.   

The three leads brought their A game in this episode, especially Alyssa who is a natural comedic actress showed that she can also excel as a dramatic actress with the right writing and direction. Phoebe accepting her fate was just chilling and heartbreaking.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Pearson80

[Primal Slayer]

I was legit thinking of that episode today. I may pop in my blu-ray and watch it again. 

The threats being human was a good storyline and something that Piper would've easily abused her powers against by s8 of the show.

[Writing Wrongs]

Charmed Feud Between OG Series and Reboot Ramps Up After Series Finale Twitter Clash

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Charmed Feud Between OG Series and Reboot Ramps Up After Series Finale Twitter Clash

This has been the most annoying feud since the series began. Why a writer from the original series had to give their 2cents when the reboot finally tried to embrace their origin...is beyond me. 

[magicdog]

21 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

This has been the most annoying feud since the series began. Why a writer from the original series had to give their 2cents when the reboot finally tried to embrace their origin...is beyond me. 

I hadn't known about this "war" until now, but Kheel has a point.  The show's title and premise were all from the original show.  They did copy many of the storylines (witch falls in love with a 1/2 demon, missing half sister makes the trio complete, dead mother with witchy legacy, whitelighters, etc. ).  In fact, I felt like I saw about 5 seasons worth of storylines in 1 season!!  Seeing The Manor at the end looks like almost an insult to original fans because they just had to go there.  Perhaps if the show had continued, maybe we could have had a scene in which there are different universes with Charmed sisters, but I doubt they would have done it.

When this reboot was announced I wasn't crazy about the show being named after the original show and not taking place in the same universe.  If they wanted a witchy show, they could have given it it's own branding not piggyback off of the original.  Obviously, they did not have the confidence in this show to do what the original did, so they just called it Charmed.

[EarlGreyTea]

Just a little comment on the nostalgia factor of this show. (By the way, it's streaming on the Roku Channel, with some commercials).

The setting is just so cozy. I don't think I've ever watched another TV show set in San Francisco. I know it was probably filmed in LA, but I loved the little San Francisco references.

I'd also have gladly lived in the manor, although it stretched belief a bit that they could afford all those repairs whenever a demon came crashing by.

Whenever real life gets depressing, it's always fun to watch the first 1-4 seasons of Charmed and rejoin the sisters at Quake, P3, Buckland's, and the manor. And, of course, to forget the later seasons exist.

[Writing Wrongs]

If the reboot people hadn't talked trash about the original while using its name and premise as a draw, fans and cast and crew of the original wouldn't have been pissed.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm rewatching S2 again.....and it just popped into my mind that the cousins were VICIOUS and were willing to kill P.Russell (Phoebe) due to her turning to the dark side along with CURSING her so she/Anton couldn't reunite and become a power-couple....flashfoward 2 years and Phoebe is back in love with a demon and about to become a power-couple with him...

Had Prue survived S3 this would've been SUCH a perfect storyline to revisit and call back to in Long Live the Queen. Would Prue/Piper be able to kill their sister like their past lives were able to kill their cousin in order to save the greater good? Dealing with that would've been amazing. Of course they would've found a way to ultimately save her soul but I think it would've been dark/cool if they at least had to curse her somehow again...in a new way before being able to bring her back to the light.

Also while the the show wasnt perfect with representation, they were still way ahead of the game compared to other 90s hits (Friends/Buffy) with how well integrated the background and supporting guest characters were that it felt like the real world. If they had incorporated Shelia eariler to help out Darryls characterization, more POC as innocents and dates, it would've been pretty good.

[Pearson80]

On 7/10/2022 at 7:50 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Had Prue survived S3 this would've been SUCH a perfect storyline to revisit and call back to in Long Live the Queen. Would Prue/Piper be able to kill their sister like their past lives were able to kill their cousin in order to save the greater good? Dealing with that would've been amazing. Of course they would've found a way to ultimately save her soul but I think it would've been dark/cool if they at least had to curse her somehow again...in a new way before being able to bring her back to the light.

Long live the Queen would have had more gravitas if Shannen and Constance were involved in the story in my opinion.   Evil Phoebe should have lasted longer than one episode and the show chickened out by saying that Phoebe was under the influence of her evil baby and not that she chose evil to follow Cole of her own free will. 

 Phoebe's dark side was established in season 1 and evil Phoebe should have been in season 5 and not season 4. It was rushed and unsatisfying because there was no fallout from Phoebe once again betraying her sisters for Cole.. Piper just accepted her back like nothing happened and Paige did not have the history with Phoebe that Prue did who would have called Phoebe out. 

Prue and Piper being more powerful than Phoebe could have found a way to neutralize Evil Phoebe while trying desperately to save her soul.. It would have been a great dilemma for them. Prue wanting to vanquish her while Piper trying to save her could have even caused a rift between them. Brad Kern had Piper willing to vanquish Phoebe her baby sister never rang true for me. Piper was always so permissive when it came to Phoebe whereas Prue never coddled her..

Edited July 12, 2022 by Pearson80