CTO

I don't have a problem with what Ken said. He was at home with his wife and he was supporting her. Problem is cameras were there but he's not a man afraid to state his opinion if it will relieve his wife's pain. That's a good spouse in my book. Rinna lies. A lot. Maybe about everything. I actually feel sorry for Brandi and hope she gets off this train of letting Bravo and Andy use her. Because they always hurt her by getting her to hurt herself doing this! She plays into their hands for a paycheque because she needs the money. I'm not piling on her for it. I don't like it either but I don't see that any of these women don't do the same just with better technique.

Ok I see it opposite and this is my issue with Rinna. This also may explain why the ladies see LVP as manipulative. LVP is smart. She has run clubs, bars, huge businesses all dealing with people. She is by now a wizard at understanding people. No blame for that, it's a skill she learned and it's valuable. But the other women don't have that skill to same degree, if at all in some cases. When LVP responds or says something, she's genuinely coming from a place of reading a situation, person or statement correctly. The problem is exactly that - LVP reads them CORRECTLY which prevents them having their smoke screens in place. The problem is, perhaps, LVP is UNAWARE that she's doing this because she's just naturally being and expressing herself and doesn't understand it offends people. (Ironic considering...Brandi has same problem...) HumblePi, good eye to focus on this. We disagree on interpretation but it's a great bit to observe and highlight. I see this as Rinna projecting and gaslighting LVP. I see all of them, when they find fault with LVP, as a variation on that tactic. Incidentally, this may be why LVP was initially friends with Brandi and why she dislikes her so much now. They share this in common, LVP and Brandi. They both read people well. That clip of Brandi was something none of us wanted or needed but every single woman she directed a comment toward looked at the time as if "oh shit she's reading me exactly right and saying it out loud". That's not a good way for Brandi to go through life but it doesn't mean she was wrong. In the same vein, LVP isn't playing chess like Bobby Fischer, she's actually, possibly, as smart as Bobby Fischer and smarts are not really something to find fault with are they? Unless these women prefer the company of non-intelligent people... ? Does anyone else see this?

Lisa Rinna is the scariest person on this show. She knows what she's doing. Reading her twitter this morning, her whatever column she keeps tweeting, was surprising but creepy crafty. She tossed out the term gaslighting in part 3 of reunion. Out of all of them, Lisa is the worst gaslighter on this show. She's also projecting all over everyone else. As said above by someone else, she's busy deflecting to throw attention off herself. She is way too disturbing to me. I'm not watching this show anymore.

Ohhhh for me it's wayyyyy beyond the book. WAY. Which is why Camille referred to Faye as the "morally corrupt Faye Resnick". I watched that trial. The murder and subsequent trial happened during very significant time in my life so I remember it but not details per se. Faye was one of more than a few characters who actually may have prevented justice in that trial outcome. At the time, she was seen as having ruined the trial or at least damaged it. That fact, I remember vividly, the talk about it, the effect of how she acted etc. She wasn't the only one who damaged the trial but she was in the top 2 if not the number 1 spot. Worse than that, at the time, it was speculated that Nicole was murdered by a drug cartel who were actually looking for Faye. The situation was such that Faye was living with Nicole at the time, except, that very day of the murder Faye went into rehab for drug addiction so she was 'away' that night during the murder. So the speculation was if not for Faye living with Nicole, Nicole may be alive today. It was all made worse by the fact that the kids were home with Nicole at the time and sleeping upstairs during the murder. So, yeah, I can't stand her. Never will. Book or no book, it was the interviews while also being a witness during the trial; saying things in tv interviews which she didn't say on the stand or then self correcting and pretending she was so innocent and doing nothing wrong. She has that in common with Kyle - sly use of language to confuse or muddle a situation enough that she gets off entirely free. People know she did wrong, she knows she did wrong, but because nobody can nail it down due to her obfuscation skills she successfully avoids being nailed and held accountable. And that's how and why she's friends with Kyle, in part at least. They have this in common. Edited for spelling & memory recall.

DebM4, thank you. Agree. I long ago stopped following Yo's personal journey. I've always found focusing on one patient's personal 'journey' is not very helpful. If they have a specific doctor or certified treatment they've hit upon, that's helpful. The rest is usually a big red flag to not listen to those patients. Well, as she said, and you reiterated, she has documentation she says. I don't know personally. When patients write books, it puts me off. I have an illness. Anything I know or learned that is helpful I wrote for free once and let it sit for whomever it may be of help. The idea is to connect doctors and researchers to help them progress faster to help everyone faster. Most patients have enough expenses and limited energy. Having to invest both money and personal time on one person is usually too much because YO is not the only lyme patient, if you're someone with lyme. I'll just be so glad when she goes away from tv. If she does. I hope she does. And the international lyme org touting her and whatever else they're doing to give her credibility is NOT HELPING how patients are viewed! Ugh. Nightmare.

I could never understand why Rinna didn't get more work in Hollywood. Now... I totally get it. Over the years there have been a few things i've looked at her sideways about but thought I was being too ... something. Anyway, when Rinna mentioned once that her parents wouldn't allow emotions or something to that effect, I think this is where her constant statements demanding people "own it" and that she herself "owns it" comes from. She's a mess, but doesn't know she's a mess, or maybe does know but lack of public exposure has kept it on the down low for her. Whatever, it's certainly clear now. She's as bad or worse than Kim I think in stability issues. Not criticizing Rinna in a mean way for that but I do think if she really wants to own her stuff, she needs a hug, a therapist to help her heal and know that emotions are ok (necessary actually!) and then, how to own it ... gracefully. Seriously, I hope she gets some help. Now that Harry has stopped drinking, maybe he can focus on her instead of himself... <--- awful way to say that I know but I can't figure out how else to get this thought out! I wish them both well ultimately. Have no beef with Hamlin other than he's got to stop encouraging her. She needs help, not codependent reinforcement.

I never thought of it that way. Wow. But on the other hand, the only one bothered was Rinna and again, saying so in whatever fashion when the person at core of it is seriously ill is a crappy thing to do. If Yo is ill... I get that her illness is under debate but i'm behind too many steps so will avoid that.

I can't recall if this has been mentioned anywhere but there's been a lot of discussion about Yo talking about and sharing her illness and why she shouldn't do that. A large part of that may be that this is the new normal for people with illness. You're supposed to blog it, share it, talk about it, especially if it's something odd or unique. The pressure to do this is coming from both other patients and the medical profession. Stanford University has an entire conference founded on this, streaming live and hosted annually. It's called MedX. If you google or check twitter for these phrases or hashtags, you'll see that what Yo is doing with her social media is completely normal in illness world. Here are the terms etc. - #MedX #ptexp #hcsm #ptvoice #patientsfirst #patientsincluded and many variations on this theme. All of these women are on social media. They get asked by random people to retweet for someone's cause or illness so they know exactly what Yo is doing and how it all works. This entire season was kind of a big game of pretend they were all playing with Andy airing it for us to argue about. It's well known in illness world to do this and they all know it. What amazes me is Yolanda agreeing to this all season. That makes me question her illness the most...because if she were really that ill, she would never do this (ETA: I mean the show, the fights, the outing of her kids illnesses - real or imagined that was way wrong; etc etc). It's hurting other patients, what she's done this season on tv.

Thanks for finding and sharing that link notnowimbusy Lisa Rinna having her Tom Cruise "look at where her career is" moment with Kim.... sigh. I was glad Kim held her own there and called Rinna out, calmly, on what she was doing. Lisa Rinna is a mess of a human being and unashamedly cruel. I heard her project her issues (ie. not owning the mess she herself made) while walking Eileen out of that party. "We have to get you out of here" read to me as 'let's pretend this is your problem and i'll save you to deflect from all the crap I caused'. That's what Rinna was saying and doing with Eileen. They're both buried so deep in self denial and can't bear to face themselves they're not even catching each other projecting onto each other! That's funny! Noticed how Kyle never really defends her sister or speaks in support of her even. Nobody should speak to a loved family member that way but in Kyle's book, it seems that's ok. No wonder Kim doesn't trust Kyle. I'm amazed Kim showed up for anything on this season. Kyle just keeps putting her in compromising and hurtful situations. That's not a good sister, that's a toxic sister.

Agree. The limo ride she had with Kim last season was what tipped me off to Lisa Rinna. She was baiting Kim, and then winding her up more. There are a few things in life a person can't walk back from with me and top or near the top is taking advantage of vulnerable people. Kim may be an addict but she's also vulnerable, whether due to the addiction or otherwise matters not to me, she is vulnerable clearly. What Rinna did in that limo on camera, letting Kim think it was for acting fun, was disturbing to me. That's when I knew she was not balanced herself. Then when Rinna casually dropped on another episode that Harry Hamlin had been an alcoholic for "years" and "just quit 3 years ago" that really sealed it. No class, no dignity for herself or anyone who comes in contact with her either apparently. Rinna is the most dangerous person on this show from any season and it's no surprise to me that's she was Kyle's friend for years beforehand. Of course we meet her on this show via Kyle. Ugh. This season Kyle has redeemed herself a bit with me but I'll always feel like manipulation etc. is lurking with her, she's just learned how to hide it better.

Totally. He IS that dude. He presents one face to the public but behind the scenes he gossips, criticizes, judges and talks crap about people and even women. He is not happy when anyone disrupts his cultivated nice guy persona. Mo was married to Yo. That sealed it for me and this just confirms it. She's smug publicly because she thinks she has cause and right to be. He's smug privately because he knows it's rude to be smug, plus harmful for business and other relationships in the public eye. Still, they're two sides of the same coin, just different M.O.

Collaborate meaning corroborate, yes? From reading this entire thread, it may be that people attribute Mohamed as having integrity and this surely wouldn't be enough to end a close friendship. I don't see the guy that way. He's smarmy and as manipulative as Yo or David Foster, IMO. I think he cooled his friendship with LVP for these reasons - 1. She repeated private info on camera on a tv show. She both said they had discussed it (she and Mo) and then used his flippant answer of 'fine' as proof to back up her position of doubt 2. His statement saying he answered 'fine' out of wanting to protect their privacy and not discuss this, explains his deeper feelings on this. 3. LVP should know him better or at least not use his private conversations with her as back up for herself on the show. He is not on the show and the guy clearly doesn't like controversy. 4. If LVP were really his friend and truly loved him, that would indicate she knows him well, or SHOULD. If she did, she would know that 'fine' is not necessarily a true answer and more an indication that he doesn't want to discuss it. Using this on the show for her own purposes indicates she is either not a true friend to him or she is but doesn't respect his boundaries. Ironically, this issue between LVP and Mo mirrors Eileen's issue with LVP in that LVP brings up things to stir and then doesn't own it and it's hurtful. LVP has done the same using a private convo with Mo, ergo tossing him into the fray (which he doesn't like) and under the bus simultaneously I have to stop watching show. It's making me nuts I think.

I don't know. I remember Bethenny hustling in earlier seasons. I remember her networking in a room full of men like nothing I could imagine. She was incredible really. Anyhow, more rounded? Is this a legit thing, that women don't count or are less worthwhile or to even suggest less skilled (at life? ??) unless they're married with 'solid' family? I hope not. Bethenny can't help her family background. She's doing the best she can with her life and doing it pretty damn well. Ramona had a marriage and supposedly solid family life and look what happened? Luann too. Same with Sonja. Carole's husband died.

About Carole, I think she's playing a role to help her friend Andy sell this season. lol I saw a photo somewhere of Carole with Candace Bushnell and maybe Bethenny?? I wouldn't be surprised if everything Carole is doing and saying on the show this season and in press for it during is all manufactured for the show. In fact, every season, I can see Carole playing a role now that I look back. She was a news producer at ABC under Peter Jennings - when news was still legit reliable solid news. She's not an airhead or stupid or silly. Carole and her book agent are in on this too. This is all a role so i'm just watching her and marvelling that she's doing this at age 50?? 51?? Wow.

The condescension is unhelpful and unnecessary. I don't disagree that Kim needs to take responsibility for herself. I don't disagree that she failed to take responsibility for her dog and what the dog has done to others. I've had a lot of trouble with the mocking and I think it's fair to feel that way.

I don't know if you are addressing me but i'm in that wee small camp so will try. Also i'm a few pages back from the end of this thread so I'm very sorry if i'm rehashing/reopening something already resolved in response to this. Thank you so very much for explaining why you feel about Kim the way you do. It has been seriously painful to read the pile on Kim here, for me, because I couldn't understand how everyone could take such pleasure in hurting someone already in so much pain. I'm understanding better. I still wish it didn't happen, don't think it's a good look, but I get it. I'll stay out of it from now on because it's too painful to witness/read/hear that for me personally - no judgment, I'm just saying I don't want to go through that again. Re Kyle putting Kim on this show and if that can be debated - maybe not by standards and opinions of most here. But to me, it definitely can be debated but I don't need the debate so it's fine to skip. I have my opinion, I stand by it due to life experience. In the same way someone said they felt crazy and seeing Kim meltdown helped them feel vindicated they are not crazy.... Kyle is that for me. I see her in a way few others do apparently. But I also think i'm not wrong. So we can disagree. What sticks for me on this with Kyle is her attitude toward and treatment of Kim in Season 1. Lots of little things, correcting her word enunciations, minimizing Kim's concerns about her daughters and them leaving the nest, no empathy for Kim. Or very little and at weird times. When Kim really needed it, Kyle had none. When Kim didn't need it, Kyle is all over her expressing concern. It felt like watching a mind f**k going on from Kyle to Kim and it didn't help Kim at all as an addicted alcoholic who needs straight talk, consistent behaviour and true trust. If Kim hadn't relapsed already, Kyle certainly wasn't helping her stay sober by Kyle's behaviour. An addict has a messed up brain by the point Kim was at when this show started. It's not a level playing field and if Kyle really cared, at some point in preceding years she' dhave educated herself about how to sincerely help Kim, what alcohol has done to Kim physiologically, and how to be around Kim in a safe way for both of them. Kyle clearly did none of that so care about her sister? Fuck no, Kyle doesn't give a crap about Kim. But she kept telling Kim she does which was messing Kim up because Kim is trying to read her sister and trust her but Kyle keeps doing things that hurt her so....mind f**k constantly. Finally,the limo scene, when Kyle outed Kim's alcoholism. Kyle said this which was the final decider for me, about Kim leaning on Mauricio for things apparently, Kyle said "like a f**king second wife!!" to Kim during that tirade. Kyle also got nearly physical with Kim to point where Kim was recoiling backward. I understand everyone does not see this the way I do and that it's hard to care about Kim. Kim isn't in my everyday. I wouldn't sign up for that either. But she's on a tv show that became all about the dysfunctional relationship of the Richards Sisters and it was painful to watch. I can't unlearn all i've learned in life and I can't not be who I am. It hurts to not be able to be who you are and have others tell you you're messed up, not right, always wrong, stupid, crazy etc. when you're not harming anyone but simply trying to understand, same as everyone else. I'm merely trying to process the horrible tv show Bravo fed us, same as everyone else. ETA: Forgot this point but it matters. Kyle confirmed for me and all of us that she didn't care about Kim in any sincere way. In part 3 of the reunion Kyle told Kim the only reason she puts up with Kim is because Kyle loves Kim's daughters. Kyle confirmed what Kim had been suspecting and what I saw/read in Kyle. It's one thing to not be responsible for your sister or for an addict. Yes they are responsible for themselves. It's another thing entirely to deliberately put them in harm's way. How many trips and events this season featured alcohol? The wine tasting at a bar, with Kim, Kyle actually asking Kim if she's ok. WTF? Not helpful and actually hurt Kim. Hurt Kim, hurt Kim's kids. Kyle says she loves Kim's kids so why fan the flames of her addiction if she loves those kids so much? I'm done.

I agree. This is why I take issue with Kyle putting her sister on a reality tv show with her *knowing* that Kim was an addict, nobody knew Kim was an addict except family (I guess? re: season 1 ending), and how was that an ok and helpful decision? Hope that speaks more to help explain part of where I'm coming from with my posts. Caregiving and empathy is tricky business. It can easily go into codependent enabling and that hurts more than helps, it ramps up the damage actually and makes it harder ultimately for the person who needs help to actually get the right help.

Not my parents both - 1 of my parents and the other was my eldest sister. So the sibling abuse thing is something I'm experienced with as well as parental. My intent was not to judge. That was the intent I felt however from someone else posting all over the place about their authority on this. Like you, i'm not sharing my personal life indepth here but do know that we all - all of us here - have encountered abusive, diseased, addicted people in our lives. It's part of life and no one gets out unscathed unless you are a hermit I guess. I do not want to come here to discuss a tv show and the players on that show and be subjected to abuse here. That's what was happening so I said something. It's not okay. The subject matter and main storyline of this season has been addiction and disease. That is never going to be snark worthy. This is the problem we're all running into I think, different viewpoints about that and how to talk about it at all and be respectful of each other. I appreciate you reading and thank you for your thoughtful comment.

Amen. Totally agree. That's why it's been brutal reading this board this season. RHOBH is not entertainment and never has been in retrospect.

Thanks and I so appreciate your posts as well. It's tough having slightly different view but then getting trashed for it is something else entirely. While watching the Reunion episode 3 I really tried to pay attention. All of the women on this show, every last one of them, is living in a house of cards. That's why they flip out on Brandi and Kim. Those two are loose cannons in behaviours, lifestyle choices, etc. and it is too dangerous for them and threatens the facade of living in BH I guess. I don't see any of them, including Eileen (3 marriages, 2 affairs ...ahem. Human but .. ahem) as being better than the other. They are all the same to me. They are all human. They all have faults. And it left me stunned too to see the hard on they all had to convince us everything is the fault of Kim and Brandi. As if none of them have had any bearing on how Kim and Brandi react to their shenaningans during filming. I mean, it's ridiculous. Actually the worst for this show and who holds most of the blame should be Andy. That guy is into some dark twisted stuff if he can do this to human beings and call it entertainment to make a living for himself off it and laugh about it all along the way. I can only watch RHONY now. Because those ladies are fun and I don't have to worry about them! They can look after themselves and I can just enjoy the show knowing they can handle anything life throws at them. I'm done with RHOBH and think Bravo should end it after all this. It's been a nightmare from season 1 when I think of Taylor and her husband's suicide especially.

I'm struggling to recall incidents of Kim hurting others GLEEFULLY, except with Brandi at PamDana's house that first night. She was pretty gleeful there maybe. No actually she was just straight up angry, defensive and mean there, not gleeful. All the years of RHOBH, can someone point out for me the number of episodes of Kim gleefully hurting someone on the show? With intent to hurt I mean, not misunderstanding or mistrusting them - I mean full on intent to hurt someone? Because I can't remember any instances except with Brandi. I can remember Kim being very defensive a lot of times and other times, this last season, asserting herself and her right to boundaries which I was quite frankly proud of her for doing so and so well. I have seen tons of glee in Kyle hurting others. What have I forgotten about gleeful Kim episodes? Seriously. I see Kim as wounded from season 1 through to today - no glee, lot of pain, lot of not handling things so well, lot of difficulty standing up for herself, but no gleeful hurt to someone else. Help? I have also been there and survived it. And in fact nursed to end of life (non addiction related at all) the two people who did the most harm to me and my life. I loved them. I wish you had that experience of being able to understand and forgive. It helps a lot. Anyhow, empathy. It's rare apparently. I'm glad some here have it and are unafraid to say so. I need that. I need to know it's okay to be myself and feel empathy for someone who was part of this show we all watched. And I need to not see constant snark and derision toward those of us who have empathy and dare to say so. We're all allowed to be ourselves here I thought. Hard to read this board sometimes.

THIS is my biggest issue with Kyle. You're exactly right. But here's what else I see and why Kyle disgusts me - Kyle did this show, with Kim in tow, and accomplished everything you wrote with the intention (I believe it was her intention, hidden but real) of coming out smelling like a rose at the EXPENSE of her sister Kim and Kim's addiction. And look, the majority of viewers see Kyle as a rose. The poor rose, who has weathered so much, and my gosh she is such a saint the poor thing. My biggest issue - Kyle is *exactly* the same as Kim and her family of origin, she just has had a better life outcome. Her actions, her attention seeking style (mean girling other girls etc.), her whining and crying to play the victim for all it's worth and yet, Kyle is no better than her family. Not one bit. In lifestyle appearance and status, Kyle appears better. But it's not hard for people with position, influence and money to appear better than others. It's easy because it's all surface. Integrity, values, how you treat others, etc. that comes from inside and inside Kyle is as barren, ugly at times and messed up as Kim. That's why for me Kyle wins nothing except my contempt and pity. At least Kim knows half her problems and admits them sometimes at least. Kyle won't claim any of her problems because Kyle needs to be perfect and not only perfect, she needs to be perfect in comparison to Kim. That's job #1 for Kyle. If not for RHOBH I would never have this opinion of Kyle or see it but thanks to all her hard work to that end over these several seasons, Kyle is just as visible to me as Kim is. I have empathy for Kim (not compassion, empathy - there is a difference) but for Kyle all I feel is disgust. It's disgusting to do to your own sister what Kyle has done to Kim via this tv show. I hope someone helps Kim in the right way, and that it sticks, and that Kyle stays far away from Kim's life because Kyle doesn't help and really doesn't care to genuinely help Kim. She hurts Kim. Enough already. Let the professionals help Kim, that's what she needs finally.

I think BOTH Kim AND Kyle have NPD.

Born in 1990. BORN in 1990 !!! :-) I just want to thank you for this and give you some applause. Made me smile, laugh a bit, think "omg i am old" because I was 22 in 1986 and just all around WOW factor :-) Really lightens things up while also hitting home how different things were and not all that long ago. Again, i'm so f'ing old. Good lord. Thanks again :-)

I don't know. I like her and she seems very down to earth to me, even if she is wealthy. ETA: She looks as good as any of them to me I meant to originally emphasize!