TigerLynx

Hee!!! Best idea yet. I think why I'm not satisfied with Ridge and Brooke confronting the despicable idiots is because after all the boredom and stupidity in this SL, I wanted Brooke to beat the baby thieves to death with a shovel, for Ridge and Bill to get rid of the bodies, and for them to get away with it. And I despise Ridge and Brooke, but I would have given them a pass on this one. Which brings me to another problem with this SL (and there are so many). People like Bill Spencer should have been heavily involved, and weren't. There was way to much screen time given to characters like Zoe, Flo, and Xander who I don't give a damn about. I think they only had Flo be related to Hope to try to up the angst factor, but it fell flat. The desperation to tie the character to the canvas and other characters via Hope and Wyatt didn't work. Also, with the way Flo, Zoe, and Shana were talking, I got the impression if Flo and Zoe hadn't realized it was Hope's baby that was stolen, they wouldn't have given the crime another thought. If it was some nameless person, they never saw again, they would have been okay with that. Their main concern about it being Hope's baby was they might be found out. ETA: Douglas was the best part of this SL. The fact that a child did the right thing when the adults wouldn't just makes me despise the adults more.

To me, Flo, Zoe, and Xander being threatened by Thomas, and suspecting Thomas killed Emma (I know Zoe kept saying they had no proof, but that was just her still trying to cover her own ass), and letting Hope marry Thomas still without saying anything about PhoebeBeth or Emma, makes them look even worse.

This episode was kind of lame. I expected way more anger from Ridge and Brooke. At least Hope showed a little bit of anger for a moment. Maybe this means she will get to go off on Flo and Zoe. Flo, Zoe, and Shana can STFU and die already with their - "This has been soooooo hard for us. We wanted to tell Hope the truth. It's not our fault. Whine, Whine, Whine." crap.

Teenage girls in Utah are forced to "marry" men old enough to be their grandfathers and have a dozen children, and no one including the law, does anything about it. Human trafficking and sex trafficking go on all over the USA and other supposed civilized first world countries everyday. I understand a couple wanting children and not being able to have them trying to adopt or hire a surrogate. However, my sympathy for their problem disappears when they decide to take advantage of poor women in poor countries so they can save on expenses. There were so many missed opportunities in this SL with Liam and Hope, and so many unnecessary additions. Thomas drugging Liam and Steffy and Liam having sex was pointless. It was bad enough that everyone thought Beth was dead, and that Steffy adopted Phoebe not knowing she was Beth. All those scenes of Zoe and Flo whining were a waste of time that could have been spent on other characters like - Bill Spencer.

Sadly, this is not unusual. There are a lot of adoptions that aren't valid, but the couple adopting the baby don't realize it. Liam really hit on something when he was talking to Flo and Wyatt. He told Flo she had watched his and Hope's lives fall apart for months. This wasn't a case of Flo did something in a moment of greed that she regretted. Flo had months of seeing Hope and Liam grieving, ending their marriage, Hope getting married to a guy (Thomas) that Flo believed was dangerous, and she did nothing.

They are both incredibly arrogant, selfish and completely lacking in functioning brain cells. This would be one of the times when despite their differences, these people really should be united. If Flo or Zoe whine one time about how hard this has been for them, or how it wasn't their fault, I want Hope to smack them into next year. Followed by Steffy saying, "I wanted to do that, but you go girl." Yeah, as much as Hope has been a passive player in this SL (which I hope is going to change), Liam's loss was barely addressed at all.

I think something else to remember about the time period is that no one was equal. Women had no rights. One of the things that got Scarlett into trouble was she didn't conform to society's rules. Rhett liked that about her until he realized that his and Scarlett's reputations could ruin Bonnie's chances. At which point, he became a huge hypocrite like almost everyone else in their group. Mellie lecturing Rhett about listening to idle gossip was funny. The USA was committing mass genocide against the Native American Indians. The ones that managed to survived weren't granted USA citizenship until 1924. The Italian, Irish, German immigrants were looked down upon. The Chinese immigrants were exploited. The North had very defined class structures as well. Even after slavery was abolished, people were not seen as equals. One thing about humans is they have managed to discriminate against other people in just about every way they can - gender, race, religion, etc. If you were Caesar, Rome was a great place to live. If you were a slave, not so much.

I think if we had seen more of Steffy/Phoebe and their bond before Brad Bell decided to kill off poor Phoebe, Steffy's wanting another child to be with Kelly would make more sense especially if the writers had bothered to remember Phoebe existed before this SL. Twins (both identical and fraternal (and Steffy and Phoebe have been both)) are usually very close. I have three sets of twins in my family (both identical and fraternal), and they all talk on the phone to each other every day (even the twin boys). The twin identical girls are the reverse of Thomas, Steffy, Phoebe. The girls are two years older than their younger brother, and they are very protective of him. There is also a set of twins that are boy/girl and they to are very close. ETA: I talked to my sister, and she reminded me we have five sets of twins in our family.

Somethings never change. Blond blue eyed babies demand a high price to. Which is somewhat darkly amusing because while there are babies that retain their blond hair and blue eyes, there are also babies whose hair and eye color change in a matter of months meaning the adoptive parents spent all that money and didn't get the hair and eye color they wanted. It happens all the time. One of the reasons people choose private adoption is because if they have enough money, they can call the shots. With the bio parents, quite often it's not an unplanned pregnancy at all. They got pregnant with the intention of selling the baby to the highest bidder. I would think people would be grateful someone was willing to be a surrogate for them, and allow their body to be used for nine months, but agencies and couples all over the world go to poor people in poor countries because they can pay them less. I agree. I hope Steffy, Liam, and Hope focus their anger on the idiots who caused this (Dr. Reese, Flo, Zoe, Xander, Thomas), and don't turn on each other. If Carter and the Courts didn't notice anything wrong with the adoption, why would Steffy? In a private adoption, the bio mom gets to choose who to let adopt her baby. In some instances, the chose is made while the bio mom is in the early stages of her pregnancy, in others though, it is made at the last minute. Quite often the reason, it's made at the last minute is because the bio mom, the baby broker, etc. are looking for the biggest payment they can get. Just when I think my contempt for this bitch can't get any worse, she proves me wrong.

With better writers, you could have Steffy glad that Beth is alive, while still sad that she is losing Phoebe. Unfortunately, these people may give lip service to caring about each other, but their actions always say something different. This is one of the reasons I really wish Steffy had returned from Europe with a new guy so the SL would really be about Steffy/Phoebe and Hope/Beth, and not Steffy/Liam/Hope. There was an opportunity here for Steffy, Liam, and Hope to be united in their anger at Flo, Zoe, Xander, Thomas, etc. Instead it will probably devolve into Steffy vs. Hope. {face palm} If only Sally would be allowed to have a spine, laugh in Wyatt's face, say I told you so, and slam the door in Wyatt's face. They had the perfect chance to kill Ridge off when RM left the show and didn't. I would be fine with both Ridge and Brooke being written off. I think Brad Bell's obsession with this couple, and the triangle from hell has ruined everything. It definitely does. Besides if Thomas had been thrown off the roof, then we would know that like Ricks and Tiggers, Thomases bounce. In California the fee for the surrogate can be as much as $150,000. Then the couple also has to pay for insurance, medical expenses not paid by insurance, travel, etc. One embryo implant procedure can cost as much as $10,000. If none of the embryos take, the couple will have to pay another fee for the next implant. There are a lot of couples and surrogacy agencies now that enlist poor women from third world countries because they can pay them less. As is the case with most things, people who have money have choices. People who don't have money have very little or no choice.

If Carter and the Court didn't notice anything wrong with the adoption papers, why would anyone else? Actually, the cost is accurate. There are a lot of people who pay that kind of money for a private adoption, surrogacy, fertility treatments, etc. It's one of the problems that people have with these things. Are rich couples paying poor women to have babies for them? Are people desperate for a baby getting taken advantage of by scam artists? There have been lots of instances of bio-parents bargaining with three or four couples to see who will bid the highest for their baby. There have also been instances of young girls being forced to give up their babies for adoption when they don't want to. Unfortunately, Brad Bell is writing this, and I doubt he gave any more thought to this SL beyond, "Let's say Hope's baby died, and make everyone miserable in the process."

I need this cat. I agree. Flo and Thomas need to shut it. I kind of wish Hope had cared a little bit about Thomas. I think it would make the betrayal even worse. I wonder if Hope will get to express any anger at Flo. Will Flo get a pass because she is a Logan, or will Brooke, Katie, and Donna fight Hope's battle for her. It's time for Hope to step up, and handle this herself. It would make the SL better than Hope constantly having to be rescued.

Brooke told Ridge he needed to leave Taylor and the children and be with her that Thomas, Steffy, and Phoebe didn't need him as much as she did. Ridge turned her down flat. Now, however, history has been rewritten, and Ridge supposedly abandoned Taylor and their three children to go be with Brooke, but that NEVER happened.

Bell cold have simply written Steffy and Kelly going to Europe on a business trip. There are a million other SLs he could have done with Liam and Hope and their baby. He wrote this because he doesn't want to end the Steffy/Liam/Hope triangle no matter how tired the fans are of that SL. Shhh. You aren't supposed to ask questions like that. For the most part, I don't like Steffy, Liam, and Hope. Sometimes they have their moments, but there is to much dumb in between them. However, none of them did anything to deserve this, and Zoe and Flo's constant excuses for why nothing is their fault make me want to beat them to death with a baseball bat.

They have no proof. All they have is two liars who have committed felonies (Flo and Thomas) admitting they are liars who commit felonies. They need a DNA test.

There should have been other SLs going on to break up the monotony of this one. Liam and Hope should have been in therapy. When that didn't help Hope, Liam should have decided they should go away for a while. Take a month's vacation. They return, things still aren't resolved, Hope needs some space, and Liam moves in with Wyatt. Steffy returns from Europe with the girls and a new boyfriend. Hope starts in with the Liam needs to be with Steffy and the girls crap. Steffy asks why Hope thinks that now when she didn't feel that way when Steffy was married to Liam and pregnant with his child. Then she tells Hope, she's moved on, and Hope isn't going to get to blame Steffy if Hope and Liam split up again. When the baby switch is revealed, Steffy's new boyfriend is there for her, and Brad Bell and the writers give the triangle from hell a rest. They will probably never end it completely, but they should leave it alone for at least a few years. Zoe, Flo and Xander have one conversation. That's it. No need to have those morons on every day for weeks on end saying the same damn thing over and over again. I know soaps don't have the budgets they used to, but there is no excuse for the lazy repetitive boring writing. OLTL did a baby switch SL with Tina/Cord and Max/Gabrielle. It was good, and you would think Tina and Gabrielle learned their lesson. They didn't. A few years later Gabrielle switched Brenda's live baby with Michael's dead baby, Tina knew about it, and told Gabrielle to tell the truth or she would, but Gabrielle distracted Tina with a secret treasure (two of Tina's weaknesses - money and adventure). They ended up sharing a jail cell. That SL was also good. So it is possible to do similar SLs with the same characters, but the writing and execution has to be there.

Yes, but at one time they tried to sell the Ridge/Brooke have a happy family, and they love their blended family soooooooo much, except not. They HATE each other's children, and Brooke schemed to ruin Thomas, Steffy, and Phoebe's lives when they were children. Ridge/Brooke were the adults initially, and it was up to them to establish a happy stable family, which they clearly didn't. Actually, Steffy and everyone else don't know anything. They have Douglas telling them the truth, but it's what he learned from his lying criminal father. Flo told Liam she wasn't PhoebeBeth's birth mother, but all that proves is Flo is a lying criminal who committed fraud and was an accessory to a kidnapping. They need a DNA test immediately.

I want Kelly to be Bill's daughter, but if Katie tries to sue for custody (which she has no legal standing to do), I hope Steffy ruins her. I want Douglas to stay with Steffy and Kelly. If Liam and Hope just take Phoebe/Beth from Steffy without court approval, they could get charged with kidnapping. They need to have a DNA test done. I wish Taylor had called the cops on Brooke when she ran off with Jack. Liam and Hope need to be backburnered. Send the blithering felonious idiots (Flo, Zoe, Xander, Thomas) to prison.

Fixed it. Boug (Bug) or Deth (Death) yikes is right. Doug and Beth are second cousins. They need to get a DNA test before they do anything. Carter looked over the adoption papers, and the court approved the adoption papers. Now that the doctor who supposedly signed the birth certificate, says she didn't, and Flo, the person who claimed to be the baby's birth mother, now says she isn't, that makes the adoption questionable. The court would probably rule the adoption invalid. However, if that happens before Liam has DNA proof that PhoebeBeth is Liam and Hope's daughter, the court will take custody, and place her with child services until there is at least a hearing. They might do that anyway. Knowing Brad Bell and the writers, they won't bother with any of this, but realistically, Liam and Hope wouldn't be able to just walk into Steffy's home and take PhoebeBeth.

I think they should get a DNA test. Settle this once and for all. Prove that PhoebeBeth is Liam and Hope's baby. After all, except for Douglas, the rest of the people who knew the truth, did nothing, and are a bunch of lying liars who lie. Liam shouldn't take their word for anything. He should get his own evidence, contact the police and DA, and send these losers to prison.

I hope Steffy asks for a DNA test. I want everything settled and this SL over. I wonder if Ridge and Brooke will break up again. It's funny how at one time Brad Bell tried to sell Ridge and Brooke as having a happy family together with Thomas, Steffy, Phoebe, Hope and RJ. Now not only do the kids not like each other, and not get along, but Brooke and Ridge hate each other's children.

It would be foolish for them to try to salvage Flo since she had the power from the word jump to stop this from happening. Flo knew the day she lied and told Steffy she was PhoebeBeth's mother that the baby had been stolen from Hope, and Hope was told her baby died. Flo had numerous opportunities for months before Thomas ever got involved in this to tell the truth, and she didn't. Flo is despicable. ETA: When Nicole stole Sami's baby on DOOL, I didn't like the way the SL dragged on, but at least I knew when Sami found out there would be hell to pay. There was, courtesy of Sami. No one had to fight her battles for her. Not only did I love the Sami/Nicole catfight scene, but when Sami found out EJ was the one who kidnapped Sydney a second time, and dumped him at the alter, it was thing of beauty. I didn't care that Sami shot EJ in the head either.

I don't think Liam would have let it drop. Once Liam believed Douglas, the dominoes were going to start falling. Of course, if any of the grown ass adults who knew the truth had done the right thing months ago, it wouldn't have been left up to five year old Douglas to be the adult in the room. Douglas puts all of these grown ups to shame. Also, when Douglas asked Steffy if he had to go back to Daddy, it was clear he was afraid of Thomas, but he still did the right thing. Bolded for truth. I'm thinking you shouldn't marry a Forrester man. Caroline I - dead, Taylor - dead twice, Macy - dead twice/coma?, Darla - dead, Caroline II - dead. It's like getting involved with one of the Barkleys or Cartwrights. Stephanie and Beth lasted longer, but in the end Eric outlived both of them. If this SL was ended sooner than it was supposed to, I have to wonder how much more misery were the writers going to pile on? They didn't stop with making Liam and Hope believe Beth was dead. They just continued to add on more and more heartache. Liam, "Who else knows?" Me, "Half the damn cast of characters, and they have known for MONTHS."

While I've enjoyed this week, I wish they hadn't brought Thomas back to be the villain. I feel like Flo, Zoe, and Xander will mostly skate, and won't face any consequences for what they did because Thomas has been so over the top evil. OTOH Douglas is the MVP of this SL. Not only did Flo forget to mention the $50,000. She also didn't admit they could have told the truth long before Thomas returned, found out, and started threatening them. I did like Liam's look of, "Bitch please," when Flo started whining, and that Liam shut her down ASAP.

When all of this finally comes out and everyone knows, I really want Justin to say to Zoe, Flo, and Xander, "So you were being threatened by Thomas, you thought he might have been involved in Emma's death, you kept the secret about Phoebe/Beth for months, Flo got paid $50,000 for her part in the crime, guess what you pathetic losers you are at the very least accessories after the fact to kidnapping and murder. Enjoy prison. Also, if in the commission of a felony (which kidnapping is) a death results, all parties involved can be charged with murder."