RimaTheBirdGirl

On a re-watch of the Great Nora/Kevin Fight, there was a glorious mess of contradictory explosions: Nora immediately snaps to Kevin's trauma, despite her own raging obsession with those Dutch physicists. In an instant she's concerned, soft, kind. She just as immediately gets nasty, but only when she learns that Kevin-in-crisis had called Laurie, not her. Regrettable, but human. The weapon Nora uses to mock Kevin is Matt's new gospel. Something she believes that they both find comic. As savaging goes, a pretty mild topic. Unless she's perceptive enough to know that Kevin doesn't find it funny at all. That text holds every agonizing, maddening memory that Kevin cannot tell Nora, because she had so cruelly fled from his honesty, before. So uh, using it to mock Kevin sets him off. He rejects her accusations of abandonment and betrayal. And in response, he is so cruel. It was stunning to see Nora's disbelief at his cruelty. (His candor?) And her disbelief at his departure. But Kevin kept looking back, again and again. He kept worrying about Nora in that burning room. And despite everything they said, they still never talked.

I'd guess that any answer applicants give to the "Kill the baby to cure cancer?" question, results in rejection from the Join Your Departed program. Certainly the man who immolated himself in front of Kevin Sr. chose in opposition to Nora. Yet he too was rejected. And then disappeared from the earth. Nora confirmed that everyone in the video she viewed (giving pre-zap testimonials to the program) had now disappeared. We know, from our flash-forward to Future Australia, that Nora Durst has also disappeared from society, and is living under another name. I think that the end-game for the band of "physicists" is to shift these unhappy people into such further misery, that they drop out from their worlds altogether. And disappear. They are not Departed. They've just hidden themselves. (And God did I love the dynamics and rich characterizations of the two "physicists." So Lost-ian, those two.)

Sober Kevin Sr. is a bummer. Kevin Sr. on God's Tongue, though, will tenaciously struggle to save his son, and succeed. He's giving, connected, and loving. And knows how to communicate trans-universally, through TVs and flower deliveries. Multi-dimensional, is Kevin Sr.

Matt is now routinely lying, in ways that may foment violent chaos in Jarden, on October 14. Matt lied to Nora this episode, in denying involvement in Pillar Man's post-death dealings. Matt lied to the community & the world, in supporting the falsehood that Pillar Man departed. He lied to Kevin in last week's premiere, when he denied being the author of the yellow flyers, advertising his church. (A touch of self-aggrandizement there.) I bet Matt knowingly told a falsehood to Nora, as a child, about their burnt-alive parents feeling no pain. That first, childhood lie puts the rest in context. As Matt explains, he lies for the greater good, to bring solace, and ease pain. But as the Millerite-saga opening of this season illustrates, lying doesn't always do that. Even from men of faith. And it leads to the unfortunate deaths of police chiefs in Australia.

The magic of the Wall might not be well known, and it might not be as affective as advertised. After all, waaay back in season 1 they brought a wight through the wall and it almost killed Jon and Lord Mormont. Mac, as you noted, the wight did not cross the wall on his own accord. He was carried across by some Night's Watchmen, who thought he was a mere corpse. Deedee, the Big Problem is that White Walkers are intent on crossing that wall -- and the book and the show (a little) have presented several ways they could do so. And uhhh, plot development demands that they do so. Among the means of entry are: some old horn or other that is believed to have Wall-shattering abilities (held by Wildlings, or the Ironborn, or toted around unknowingly by Sam, or buried north of the Wall, (I forget)) no member of the Night's Watch remaining true Bran with his Night King-marked arm crossing through the Wall.

All the Lord of Light and Red Women crowd seem have an understanding of the White Walker threat. (Melisandre and the Red Woman of Mereen.) And certainly Berric and Thorus had direct dealings with Melisandre.

Pickles, you must watch that episode. The "old lady" is played by Lois Smith, a magnificent actress. The character is an extraordinary (and ordinary) human being, and Elizabeth responds to her, and kills her. At one point, when Elizabeth justifies murdering the old lady to the old lady, the Lois Smith character says something like, "That's what evil people say to justify what they do." And those words pierce Elizabeth.

Hodor is dying while controlled by Bran's wargdom, yes? What if Hodor shifts into a wight, with Bran still "inside" him? Perhaps Bran will then gain the (helpful) White Walker attributes that some here have speculated are crucial to a (happy-ish) endgame. Nah, that's not how wargdom works, I think. Wargs don't retain attributes of the lives they've possessed. But perhaps Hodor might become a different kind of wight. I would like him to be spared two existences of erasure.

The Kings write that the Slap ending was always their end-game, but that they had intended Elsbeth Tascione to deliver it. (An Elsbeth slap would have more clearly been on moral, not personal grounds.) Here's the quote: The full article is: Variety interview with Robert & Michelle King

Ser Davos' counsel to Reanimated Jon Snow was so good. Even the rhythm of their back and forths was lyrical. And that message -- to keep going in the face of failure -- was so precisely what Jon needed to hear. And strategically sound in these circumstances. It's also the message of every civil rights rally I've attended, for 40 years. A highly pragmatic rallying cry for difficult causes, and long struggles.

Sigh. But Jon's leavetaking speeds the fall of the Wall. As the Wall stands only so long as one of the Night Watch remains true. (That's right, right? Per Nan?) My son points out that the Wall has to fall, in order for dragons and Promised Princes to eradicate all White Walkers forever.

And further, this fellow is not the Greatjon, but some-other-Umber. My son reminded me of all this -- the GreatJon (on the Show) was that very large man who guffawed when Robb chopped off the Greatjon's fingers, or some such thing. And after that was ever-loyal. Bannermen loyalty is so integral to the ethos of the books. It is sad-making that Show is utterly trashing the character of the Northerners. In fact, disregarding all the regional distinctions, now. (Unless Rickon's betrayal is a ruse.)

Splutter, WaitWhat? StillShimpy, you are suggesting that perhaps Jon's resurrection was independent of Melisandre and the Lord of Light? Holy Moly.

In my obsessive household, we cite to book-Cersei's creepy fascination with the destructive fire she started (burning down some portion of the Red Keep, or sumpin'), as evidence that CERSEI is the illegitimate child of the Mad King. (And yes, Jamie too. Patricide abounds.) Here's a good rabbit hole to fall into, on the Tyrion-as-secret-Targ question : http://www.techinsider.io/tyrion-targaryen-theory-2016-4 * Actually, StillShimpy was only quoting a text cited and received by Haleth.

Harking back to ages-old Television Without Pity threads, scrutinizing the sisters' post-separation references to one another. Yes, it was heart-warming to see that little smile. Acceptance and affection for the very differences that had had kept Sansa and Arya at odds. Nicely done. And the fandom sighs, once again, for a Stark sibling reunion.

Ahhh, Philip poisoned Martha's ability to trust her co-workers, when he doctored an audio tape to make it seem that Gaad and others were making nasty jokes about her appearance. IIRC, there was a vulgar sexual slant to the (artificially created) jokes, as well. And Philip played that tape to Martha. It was crucial to persuading her to take spying actions "against" her own office. And I guess it would have carry-over, as she stood in that park, alone. The power and consequences of women's beauty on this show are fascinating. And as others have noted -- Martha was at her most beautiful, when she was last seen crying, after Philip told her that no, he would never visit her in Russia. And it was only then that she looked like the beautiful artist's sketch of her (or as the actress, Alison Wright, actually appears). As if the make-up, lighting, & camera teams were only then allowing us to see the "real Martha." Or maybe making sure we had full empathy for her, by making her beautiful. And I love the show's emphasis on Gaad, and his recent realizations about his past oblivion about Martha's inner life. I love this show.

This episode left me with the sickening certainty that the Center will kill Paige. The kicker was Oleg's father, Mr. Soviet Railroad Minister, speaking of the enormity of this kind of loss, for parents. Followed by Gabriel's crafty manipulation -- ensuring that the Center (and Paige's parents) would continue to see Paige as potentially "recruitable," in exchange for keeping Pastor Tim and his MIssus alive. Followed by my own conviction that Paige could never be reliable, from the Center's perspective. Her existence must eventually become untenable for those Soviet spy masters.

Ohhh Pallas, what a crucial, clarifying catch. Thank you: I felt punched in the gut, when Kevin said to John, "Maybe she didn't love you" - to explain Evie's actions. Because that's not a fair conclusion about Any Teenage Action; because feeling unloved is so intrinsic and universal; because what did that conclusion reflect about Laurie, who had really though only recently, given her best help to Kevin? What did it mean about Nora, who also ran away? Maybe Kevin's hotel return was designed to have him accept and forgive both women who abandoned him. 'Cuz it did.

That's interesting to know, Verynot, particularly as Mantel's characters strongly suggest that had Catherine put England first, she would have put herself in a monastery, immediately terminating their marriage. Her political knowledge had to inform her that England required a male heir, for its peace and stability (just as you wrote). (But wouldn't smuggling Mary out of England have guaranteed a war? And wasn't Catherine part of that plotting with Chapuys? I'm pretty sure the book and the show said those plottings were going on.) But of course, Catherine getting to a nunnery would mean taking actions that would supplant her own daughter from the future throne. And throw England to the heretics. Still, the book left me feeling that Catherine's intransigence ruined her own happiness -- and her daughter's. SFOSTER21, ON 05 MAY 2015 - 3:31 PM, SAID: I love how Anne looks hungrily at baby Elizabeth, every time E is whisked away. The old Glenda Jackson TV series had a character say that Elizabeth I never mentioned or even referred to her mother, ever.

Oh Boundary, that is a piercing observation. Thank you. (Sorry, Board on Board. But dang, I missed all this, and it's crucial.)

The tension of that reunion made me squeak. But did Dany really achieve a "faint touch?" I thought she didn't. Her face was a marvel of Mixed Signals. (Such a face.) But it looked to me that she hesitated too long. Did Dany touch Drogo?

Stunning that P & E both ran out to "handle" Paige, with never a thought for Henry. Who is the natural super-spy. That fact has been too carefully nurtured, not to pay out big. (Smashing the duck-feeding psycho with a beer bottle; keeping caches of photos; doing a pretty fair Eddie Murphy.) Can't wait to see what happens when the plot turns to Henry. Perhaps the effectiveness of the Illegal couples is lessened when their personal bond is frayed. As a working team, and as a source of mutual emotional support, perhaps Illegals do their best work in stronger marriages. And of course Elizabeth had told Claudia of Philip's wavering loyalties to the Mission. And then confessed that to Philip. Gabriel's statement might reflect that Elizabeth had not been expressing those kind of concerns, prior to Paige Issues arising.

Does anyone else suspect that Pastor Tim's hair color is there ONLY to skeeve us out? Damn, that man does resonate creepy.

Thaddeus Daniels is the actor who plays Maurice. I'm universally in awe of all the casting on this show. Even the smallest roles are brilliantly acted. That feline evil entity who enlists Nina to delve into the kidnapped Jewish-refusenik? (He's in all the "previously on the Americans.") He gives me the shivers, every time. And Walter Taffet? His kohl-rimmed eyes bespeak such sorrowful knowledge. He's like a living Rembrandt. And good God, Lois Smith! The great care taken by this show gives me a lot of patience with all the short-comings Umbelina listed. This show may explore and depict marriage better than anything since Friday Night Lights. It's fascinating, and dizzyingly unpredictable. I loved the scene, in bed, I think, when Elizabeth veered from her righteous path, and apologized to Philip for not telling him about her conversations with Paige. Which was immediately answered by Philip telling her about his son. It played so true to me -- how just the merest acknowledgment of your partner's point of view (the very thing you've been furious at him for) changes everything. Those good-marriage-moments make me ache. And I do see them with Clark and Martha too -- but Martha's struggle towards intimacy only deepens the fear and sadness I have for her. (Run Martha, run!) Remember Elizabeth persuading the Nicaraguan agent to kill her Capitol Hill boyfriend? There can be no friendships with one's assets in this world. No loyalties. If the Center can order the honeytrapping of Jared (the 18-year old son of the other pair of Illegals), then there is no personal bond that won't be sacrificed for the Mission. Which is one reason why Elizabeth's story with Paige is so terrific. I think Elizabeth knows this truth. Lois Smith (good God) told her. I think a huge part of E's reasons with Paige are not to follow the Center's orders, but to be intimate with her daughter about who Elizabeth is. It's let-me-pierce-your-ears, all over again. She wants a shared life with her daughter.