kieyra

They were also worried about retribution to their families. It was understood that you did not talk smack when you were on the block, and Anne had her daughter's future to worry about. (Also, I think she really was hoping for a surprise reprieve right up to the end.)

On the podcast RDM says the breast milking scene was the first thing they received real pushback on (from the network, I guess).

This. Clocked.

The six episodes encompass the two books so far, Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies. Mantel is theoretically working on a third/final book, but I don't know if they will make another series. I expect she's struggling a bit with the final book.

Eh, I had a bad feeling this was coming. I didn't even watch tonight's episode. I can't believe I'm typing this, but I don't think I'm even going to bother with the rest of the season at this point. There isn't a winner I can be particularly happy about, and the arbitrary nature of the judging is too blatant this season.

Yes, we are absolutely on the same page. Hard not to feel relieved when you're reading about the era and Elizabeth I finally ascends to the throne.

I'm always conflicted about Mary Tudor. She was a religious fanatic, she had a seriously crappy life for the most part, and I'm pretty sure she was well and truly mentally ill by the end. I think she really believed she was doing God's work. I don't think Henry VIII really had any such delusion. (Most of my source on this is Weir's Children of Henry VIII, which goes into heartbreaking detail about Mary's false pregnancies, her devastation over being abandoned by Philip, her inability to stop what she regarded as heresy, the loss of Calais, etc.)

I was going to post this in the episode thread, regarding Anne's execution, but I had nothing to add about the show itself so brought it here. No matter how many times I've seen this material played out, the executions never get easier. Natalie Dormer did a very good turn on the block as AB in The Tudors, and then a season later they shot Catherine Howard's execution in a different, but still deeply creepy way. I can't make it through the more gruesome stuff--burning at the stake, the botched executions (I think they addressed that in The Tudors but I couldn't watch), and the cook who was boiled alive (ditto). (If there are readers who swore of off The Tudors due to the historical shenanigans in season 1, it gets more on track in season 2, and it's worth it for Natalie Dormer's portrayal of Anne's fall. Then season 3 brings us more of James Frain as Cromwell, and a bizarrely engaging performance of Anne of Cleeves from Joss Stone. )

Taking the topic of executions to the "other works" thread.

Katharine Parr caught them cuddling and she had Elizabeth removed to another household for everyone's sake. Unfortunately I've read so many fictional and non-fictional treatments that it becomes muddled, but I believe Katharine was pissed off at both of them (today we wouldn't blame a 14 yo, but Thomas Seymour did the "she started it!" maneuver). But she wanted to protect everyone's reputation, especially Elizabeth's, who had the most to lose. I believe Elizabeth and Katharine were back to being cordial before Katharine died in childbirth.(Then Seymour tried to marry Elizabeth later, which he lacked the station and authorization to do, and the whole original mess came out in the end anyway, and Elizabeth had to do serious damage control. Seymour was beheaded. And this is why the whole era is so fascinating. Hundreds of little stories like this that are better than any soap opera.)

I've read the books so many times my memory is questionable, but I think they may have used that speech (which I also love) in an earlier episode.

They did mention additional cooling in a backhanded way, but yes, as a sysadmin I hated this episode. As a television fan I wasn't thrilled either--I think I only laughed at the Jared stuff. Something was off. Filler episode for some reason, and the writing wasn't as sharp as usual. Very networky. I guess they really didn't want to give up Erlich's house as a set, but this wasn't the right way to do it.

I know we've been discussing the podcast elsewhere, but it seems worth mentioning here that Ru specifically mentions how attractive Pearl is and how popular that would make him with fans, when explaining why he didn't throw Pearl out on his ass during the 'staredown' scene.

I seem to be unable to successfully navigate the strange minefield that is this show's subforum, so I will also bow out. Sorry for earlier acronym offense.

Erm. Sorry, it was just a commonly-used acronym during VM. Believe it or not, I myself often do not get other people's pop-culture shorthand when discussing shows, because I haven't seen everything ever. I look it up and/or move on. For example, this week in GoT, there's the phrase "R+L=J" being tossed around. Had to google. Didn't get mad. Also not my fault: RT creating two shows where actresses with similar voices and cadences do very on-the-nose voiceovers. ETA: Sorry, RT is Rob Thomas, the showrunner. GoT = Game of Thrones. ETA = edited to add.

I feel like I've been waiting years for that kid to die.

Have we actually seen him threaten to out them? If so I missed or forgot it. It seems like it would be mutually assured destruction if he did threaten it. As distressed as I am that this show is already being eaten alive by shipper-related factions, I'm kind of surprised anyone holds up the Lowell relationship as an example of any point whatsoever. It seems pretty clear to me that he's temporary; they didn't throw them nearly enough obstacles for anything else. RT was probably having to fulfill some shirtless-dude CW quota.

Yes, this. As it stands, Blaine makes very little sense to me right now. Shallow complaint: they really need to get some consistency with the zombie look. I get that we have different zombies taking different approaches to their aesthetic, including Liv choosing to wear an old Party City wig for some reason, but how exactly is that wooden police lieutenant guy attaining his salt-and-pepper effect? If they wanted to play the who's-a-cylon game they should have started out with a more subtle zombie look, especially for their lead. I'd also like it if they would lose the VMVO.

I love almost everything she says -- bitch almost got me juicing and I'm an (irrationally) avowed juicing hater. (But once in a while she'll be like 'karma is quantum physics' and I'm like gurl, no.) I even watched part of the godawful BBUK run for her, but I couldn't take the Perez for very long. Overall I have absorbed a lot of life wisdom from the two of them, though, which I did NOT expect going into it. I do not have the desire to be a celebrity/work in show business that they address frequently, but I'm a creative person with an unpublished novel I'd like to get out there, so a lot of what they say does apply.

Sorry if I gave an incorrect impression of the 'going off the air' thing in my post--I tried to make it clear that I'd only heard the first ten minutes and I wasn't sure yet of the context. (I'm still not precisely sure if their issues were with the haters on individual queens' social media comments, or if there was a subtext of them reacting to the blah reactions to S7. I do get, now, the younger-generation point they were making.) I just knew that the fact they were bringing it up at all meant they were pretty perturbed about something. (I have no idea how it's being taken on reddit, /r/rupaulsdragrace gives me hives now, I just want to make sure it's understood I wasn't drawing any conclusions because I didn't have enough info at that point.) ANYWAY. Having listened to the rest of the podcast, I did find the T with regards to Pearl and Trixie to be interesting. Especially Pearl. In conclusion, I guess I'll just say that I've been on the internet for over twenty years, and only in the last year or two is it starting to make me deeply uneasy. So, while I'm not happy with season 7, I was generally picking up what they were putting down in the podcast.

I've usually enjoyed it and they've had some very good guests. There's a lot of product-slinging, but I guess that's true of all popular podcasts. I also ADORE Ross Matthews' podcast, Straight Talk. It's silly but fun and he has a fun group and good guests. Although he had Willam last week and Willam was ... let's say, very OTT for that particular podcast. It was hilarious, though. http://podcastone.com/Straight-Talk-with-Ross-Mathews Of the two I would say I prefer Straight Talk (I'd recommend starting at the beginning), but Ru and Michelle have some hilarious stories and a decent amount of life insight.

The new "What's the Tee" podcast with Michelle and Ru is up. I've only listened to about ten minutes' worth, but they are talking about the evolving fandom of the show as of season 7, and how evil some people are online. I haven't gotten far enough into the episode to tell if they mean the people who are just mean/nasty in social media comments for queens they don't like, or if it may be a reaction to the lack of enthusiasm about this season. When I had to stop listening (because work), they were mentioning that the show could go away / be cancelled at any time.

I think it's a timeline thing, and escalation of the situation, not inconsistency. I don't think Mary was EVER allowed to see Katharine again after her exile. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) And IIRC that scene where Mary was present was Cromwell informing Katharine of that exile. So Mary wasn't banned from her presence yet, but was about to be. Meanwhile, Mary was also refusing to recognize any of Henry's maneuvers (his marriage with Katharine being invalidated, himself as head of church, validity of marriage w/Anne Boleyn), and the fact that she publicly refused mattered. So by keeping them separate, he was punishing both women for bucking his authority. Again IIRC, I don't think Mary ever backed down until some time after her mother's death, and eventually had an uneasy reconciliation w/Henry VIII. (Addressed with reasonable accuracy in The Tudors.) That would have been after the fall of Anne Boleyn. (I think I'm done editing this puppy now.)

Yes on this, and a lot of the other exchanges with Jane Rochford are word-for-word. (I don't remember if this episode included the scene where she really lays it all out for him, but if so I believe the majority of that dialogue was verbatim. In general, most of the real zingers in the show are.) Yes, more's the pity. We needed more episodes to do the two books justice.

I'll split the difference between "injury caused him to be a tyrant" and "he was always a tyrant". I don't think much of the brain injury theory. I do, however, think that he became much, much worse/scarier later in life. Probably a combination of the constant pain from his leg, no longer being able to participate in his beloved sports, and more importantly, what he viewed as a long string of disappointments and betrayals (which made him more paranoid and vicious). Everyone let him down--from his point of view--including Katharine (no son!), Anne (no son!), every single one of his advisers (which is why he stopped listening to anyone else's counsel after Cromwell), Catherine Howard (who cheated on him), God (who kept sending him evil wives and not nearly enough sons), etc etc. As far as he was concerned, the only one who didn't screw him over was Jane Seymour, and basically she didn't live long enough to get on his bad side (much). It reminds me of someone with borderline personality disorder, but at the same time there's no telling what kind of weird psychological fallout happens if you truly believe you were ordained by God to rule on earth and then things keep failing to go 'your way'. (If this is coming across as apologist it's not intended that way. I just think 'tyrant' is a little too reductive.)