violetr

Screw Marquel and Dylan and their easy shaming of women for doing the same things they are doing themselves. And screw these women for being dumb enough to take it. I just can't even. Why am I watching this trainwreck again?

I absolutely think this is her line of thinking. But boy is it misguided to think this franchise could help your self-esteem in any way. I really don't get Graham's appeal. I mean, he seems nice enough, but where is this alleged hotness? Is it one of those things where you have to be in his actual physical presence to get it? Some pheromone thing? Otherwise I'm baffled.

Oh No He Di'int!

I know. It almost bummed me out it was so awful. And yet, I know I'll continue to watch. What the hell is wrong with me? Marcus and AshLee should hook up because they are the male and female versions of each other. They both have the ability to convince themselves that they're in love with whomever their intended target is within a very small amount of time. It's freaking delusional. And sad. This is going to sound mean, but to me Sarah's problem is that she's just incredibly boring. People tend to be attracted to vibrancy and she has none. I'm guessing she's shy and insecure because of her physical anomaly (I would be too!), but she needs to find a way to boost her confidence and stop looking for validation from the outside world, especially the freaking Bachelor/ette franchise! Get this poor woman some therapy. Casting her in this borders on cruel. The only thing I really enjoyed was the editing. Clare talking to the adorable racoon, who then backed away slowly, was pure genius!

Oh my god. That was so embarrassing. I couldn't finish watching it. Awkward drunk dad alert! (except I don't think any of them are dads!)

Even Andi's buddy Sharleen made this point, and Sharleen was pretty supportive of the way Andi handled things with Nick over all.

If Andi and Josh actually get married, some day they'll be sitting in Chili's with their three boys after a little league game, all hitting each other and throwing food and screaming "he started it!", and Josh will be braying about his brother's latest sportsball achievement, and his weird hairline and flop sweat will be even more pronounced, and Andi will think back on her comparatively substantive, passionate relationship with Emo Nick and just cry on the inside. Or not, but this is what I like to think will happen. It makes me feel better about that whole Finale/ATFR debacle, which just made me feel ill.

But what about THE CHILDREN!

I agree, and I'll take it one step further and say that I still support her response to Juan Pablo. I think he was a shallow, arrogant, sexist ass who deserved to be called out. In fact, it's what made me like her in the first place and continue to support her through most of her run as Bachelorette. It was her hardcore coldness to Nick and gaslighting that made me dislike her. A COUPLE of restraining orders?! Good god, no wonder you're sensitive to the possibility of stalker behavior - you've been burned!

THIS. I had a similar experience, although instead of acting like he hated me, the guy acted like there was never anything between us and I was delusional. Total gaslight situation. Andi "gaslighted" Nick. It's just unbelievably callous. But kudos to Nick for taking the high road in the media and on Twitter now while Andi and Josh continue to act like complete assholes.

Touche, but I still really like Nick! Like Sharleen, I never got the creepy vibe. Part of me would like to see him participate in this franchise again, but I think he's probably had enough and will run far, far away.

Thank you for saying this so I didn't have to. :) That said, I'm actually very impressed with this forum that there hasn't been much of this kind of talk. Cultural progress! For the record, I will be the first person to scream "slut shaming" if I think it's happening. In this case, though, I think Andi sleeping with Nick was just her being a selfish dick.

Well, that was just gross. Three hours of that cringe-worthy nonsense and the only thing I actually enjoyed was the 30 seconds or so of Grump Cat. I love you Grumpy Cat! Like Nick, I feel like such a fool because I have been defending Andi this entire season. Well after her horrible, cruel, cold attitude toward Nick last night, I kinda hate her now. She was so awful to him. Way to rub salt in the wound, lady. I usually enjoy the schadenfraude this show brings, but I did not enjoy seeing a man's heart and dignity get ground to a bloody pulp last night. Further, both the "what a stalker" and "man up" memes are really bugging me. Makes wonder if anyone who's saying those things has ever been dumped with nary an explanation by someone they were madly in love with. After it happens, you're just not yourself for awhile. All you can think is "is there any way I can fix this?" and "I just want to see/talk to you." You get over it eventually, but it takes time. I basically want to see Andi and Josh fail now. Yeah I said it.

I'm so confused by this question. If someone actually knows the contestant and has some insight beyond what we see on TV and in the media, of course we want to know!

Sometimes I scroll too fast and see a person's comments before their name, but when I saw this I thought, "This has to be Alapaki. Ha! Cosign on both of these comments. Chris seems like kind of an angry guy, with a huge head and no neck. I don't hate him, but he just does nothing for me. Sticking my fingers in my ears and going "la la la" because I have a totally inexplicable crush on Chris Harrison and don't want to believe he's sexist. I know, I have issues. My two cents on Marquel: Again, I don't hate the guy, but I'm no longer a big fan either. I really loved his exit from the show and thought he was a class act, but his behavior on TMTA turned me off. It seemed self-serving, especially with the references to his faith. I hate it when people trot out their faith like it's some sort of proof that they're good, morally upstanding people. Well it's not. It's simply what you believe - it doesn't automatically make you an angel.

Leaving aside for a moment my convinction that you have to be pretty crazy to go on a show like this in the first place, I'm curious to know if you think she's any worse than any of the other Bachelor/Bachelorettes? I think she's one of the better ones, and have found her to be less of a phony and and actress than, say, Emily. To a degree, though, they ALL have to act. It is a TV show after all. More than a few leads have admitted that they knew their top one or two very early on, but I don't think any of them have moped and rolled their eyes all through their seasons when not with their chosen ones.

Again this falls under the "different strokes" rubric, because Josh just sounded slick and shallow to me, whereas Nick's fumbling sounded sincere. Truthfully, though, I think it just comes down to two different guys with two different approaches. I prefer Nick, but I'm not the Bachelorette. I'm pretty convinced at this point that she'll choose Josh and then they'll break up after a few months.

No it's "the Brief, Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao" by Junot Diaz. I was reading about these countless murders and how horrible it was to live under that regime and how everyone who wasn't part of the dictator's circle was in constant fear and then the very next night Andi's like, "Here we are in the beautiful Dominican Republic!" I said much the same thing upthread about what a natural moment that was. This is why I've liked Andi all along. Something about her always struck me as genuine (and the fact that she's close with Sharleen speaks well of her, because Sharleen rocks), and why I thought Eric's comments (RIP) were a bit of a head scratcher.

I just finished reading a book that's partially set in the Dominican Republic during the fascist, genocidal Trujillo regime that lasted 30 years, so that's pretty much all I could think of whenever they talked about how wonderful it is "here in the Dominican Republic." That said, it did look beautiful. On a much more shallow note, I'm totally crushing on Nick. I think he's adorable and his bod is smokin'. I also think that face he made during the end credits when Andi mentioned how long she was a bed wetter was one of the most genuine moments I've ever seen on this fakey fake show. I'm in full agreement with Sharleen when it comes to Nick. As she said on her blog recently: Andi is so going to pick Josh, isn't she? She seems like a very practical person, which tells me she'll go for her usual type. Too bad - I think he'll wind up boring her to death. Oh Chris, I guess I'd better get used to you being the next Bachelor.

Thank you so much for saying this. I've said from the beginning that I'm a fan of Andi's Grump Cat expressions, and I think this is largely because women on TV generally aren't really allowed to do anything that's not done prettily. I will take her genuine expressions over phony Emily or simpering Des any day. To me it's sort of like seeing larger women on TV. The more we see it, the more we'll get used to it.

I was just laughing with glee through this whole episode. What a bunch of babies, especially Brian. I can practically hear his thoughts: Andi pretty! Brian like! Nick smart. Brian dumb. Brian SAD. Nick and Andi sittin' in a tree. There's that relationship, and then there's everyone else. These super passionate relationships never seem to last long after the show's ended, but they're fun to watch. TeamNick all the way. The other guys are such morons. Newsflash: it's possible to play the game well AND have genuine feelings for the B'ette. Chris creeps me the fuck out. This is totally unfair speculation, but I get a stealth misogyny vibe from him. He's way too traditional for Andi. Josh is gross. Marcus is sweet, but too quiet and kind of....moist?

Truth. I live in Oakland, CA, which is kind of known to be hipster central, and I think at this point I'm more annoyed with people calling out others as "hipsters" than I am with actual hipsters. It's one of those terms that's so overused that it's become almost meaningless. Nick may or may not be a "hipster," and may or may not be a douchebag. But for now I'm enjoying the fact that he stands out from the other meatheads.

I also love Sharleen's recaps. I think she feels pretty free to snark on the show because she's not really using it to further her career. Pretty sure she's a one-and-done with this franchise. I do wonder if these recaps will have any bearing on her friendship with Andi, though. You should be able to be open with your friends, but a couple of her comments were a bit, "yikes!" FWIW I agree with Sharleen on just about everything. Off topic, but washing your hands is super important. It's one of the main ways to prevent the spread of communicable diseases.

That's true, and it's even possible that he answered differently and was edited to to look like he said he didn't wash his hands after using the bathroom. We'll never know, unless he denies having said it on the Men Tell All. Regardless, forevermore he will be known to me as "Mr. Pee Pee Hands" (TM whoever coined that upthread).

I'm not saying that female relationships aren't different from male relationships, but I don't think the above statement is true, either in real life or on this franchise. Many of the women who've appeared on TB are now besties. Look at Andi, Sharleen and Kelly, just as one example. In the end I think it all evens out regardless of gender. Some people form close friendships, some don't. Some stay in touch, some don't. Some hate their fellow contestants, some don't.