MicheleinPhilly
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Posts posted by MicheleinPhilly
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8 hours ago, dbklmt said:
Are you "READY"? I'm "READY" for Keith to be sentenced to life imprisonment. His sentencing is scheduled for October 27th. I'm eagerly awaiting waking up to good news that he's going away for the rest of his life!
The hearing is scheduled to begin at 11 a.m. ET. I know that India intends to testify and I'm hoping a BOATLOAD of these other women do too. 🤞
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4 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:
I admit I was more forgiving of Nippy (although that name is unforgivable) because I saw him with his son and he has the all American boyish good looks, but he acted like a real asshole as leader of that He-Man Woman-Haters group. That was some real bullshit and he should feel guilty about it (as he claimed to in The Vow).
I think this was the first time I learned that his given name is Anthony. How does one get from that to Nippy? Tony, sure. Ant, I can see it, maybe. But Nippy?
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On 10/25/2020 at 10:38 PM, DearEvette said:
Also I have to wonder what people like Mark feel after touting Keith's creds as a Philosopher and Scientist when he graduated with an undergraduate degree barely over the state mandated gpa minimum?
Every time someone says "curriculum" or "science" or "technology" in relation to NXIVM, I have the same visceral reaction to hearing Scientology described as a "church" and its adherents as "parishioners." Just, no.
I was also getting Scientology 2.0 vibes from the woman that talked about going into 80-100K of debt because they would approach her with "new" materials and courses. Leah Remini talks all the time about how they kept milking you for money when they "discovered" new L. Ron Hubbard writings. 🙄
10 minutes into this and my SO and I were discussing how annoyed we are at having wasted 9 hours of our life on The Vow. I mean, you have hundreds if not thousands of hours of footage to draw from and not once did you think to include any clips of "Justifying Rape 101"??? Oh that's right, you didn't. Because then you wouldn't be able to paint yourself as a victim of Keith's charisma and compelling "teachings." 🤬These people are gross.
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3 minutes ago, sadie said:
I am finding the Seduced series a nice companion piece to this. It explains much better how those at the top (I’m looking at you Mark) made their money. It also exposes the awful misogynistic message Keith had from the get go. In regards to Mark, here’s how I now see it. He knew Keith’s “teachings” were gross and abusive but didn’t mind as long as he was in the “inner circle”. As log as Mark”belonged” and was filling that void within himself to belong to something he went along to get along. BUT When Mark found out about Dos, and that he was in the dark I think was where he all of a sudden got “woke”. KR made no secret about how he thought women were less intelligent, needed to be kept in line (example: the dog bed) and things like incest isn’t bad until society tells the woman it is bullshit that KR preached all along the way. Problem was people like Sarah and Mark were making a lot of money so I believe they looked the other way until they couldn’t (you just got branded girl).
I don’t know why The Vow has sugar coated all of this other than to endear us to our central characters (Mark, Sarah). some of the Seduced footage has Bonnie in it and I can see the visible discomfort in her face when KR is spouting shit like making a baby “rapable”. Transversely there is a lot of Mark and he looks about as gunk ho as anyone I’ve ever seen. I’m baffled by this documentary at this point and their waxing over what made this thing so dangerous. No Mark, it was NEVER a good thing except you finally feeling like you got into the frat you so longed to be part of. Before they do the final edit on Season 2 I’m wondering if they will change the edit now that Seduced is exposing the true ugly under belly of this shit show.
BINGO. I was reading an article earlier today (I can't recall which one because I seek them out like crack at this point) that essentially said that The Vow was designed to inoculate those major players (Mark, Sarah, Bonnie) from any suggestion that they were complicit in KR and AM's criminal behavior.
Another article referred to them as the "Scooby Gang" which made me cackle. But really, it's not at all funny. Just because you made a preemptive strike to get out before the shit really hit the fan doesn't make you blameless.
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FINALLY got to see this and within 10 minutes could see that it was miles ahead of The Vow in terms of quality. I have a new level of loathing for every single person featured in The Vow after hearing Keith talk about "rapeable babies" and girls "enjoying" being abused by their fathers. GTFO with your pedophilia, you absolutely sick, disgusting little troll. I'm looking forward to his sentencing oh so much.
Princess Elizabeth is my new favorite person.
Agree with you @TVbitch that The Vow made it seem like Catherine simply attended that first, introductory session and then peaced out. And it makes me really question the veracity of everything else that was presented as that's a fairly large detail to be "fuzzy" on.
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29 minutes ago, mamadrama said:
We seem to have an either/or attitude when it comes to people like Mark, Sarah, India, etc. We don't have to, though. It's still possible to dislike someone for their actions towards others while also feeling sympathy for the things they were truly victims of. Just because we're posting critical comments about Mark, Sarah, et al doesn't mean we can't also appreciate the horrible things they went through. Just because I think Mark did his own amount of damage doesn't mean that I don't feel bad for him or don't think he was victimized. I can be worn out from seeing Sarah's brand while still accepting that she went through something traumatic.
This is such an interesting point. I've found myself comparing these folks to some of the people that appeared in Leah Remini's series, including Mike Rinder who was WAY high up in Scientology and did some truly dastardly things to people. I wonder what it says about me that I don't have the same level of empathy for some of the people in this group. I mean it's definitely not an either/or attitude for me, but I'm definitely less "forgiving" of the NXIVM group. Maybe I just didn't feel enough remorse from them.
*shrugs shoulders, books appt. with shrink to discuss*
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15 hours ago, mamadrama said:
India had some interesting things to say about Mark Vicente in this article...
This article provided more detail than 9 hours of The Vow. Thanks for posting.
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Which one of you wrote this??? 😂
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/10/hbo-the-vow-nxivm-too-long
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Having an infographic on the screen laying out the extra items they can get and how much they are worth would help. I can't be the only person that was yelling at the woman on Team Collard Greens because I thought she was just stopping to get a coffee. At first I thought she was going for a bag of a really expensive blend and when the barista handed her a single cup, I yelled, "What are doing???? You don't have time to drink coffee!!!" 🙄
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19 hours ago, DearEvette said:
Also the scene in the coffee shop with the woman going on about she accidentally went to a meeting and immediately knew it was a cult while Bonnie sat there with a deer in headlights look was kinda funny.
I finally watched this last night and even though I knew it was coming from reading here, I still LOLed. HARD.
This entire production really was a hot mess but I'm sure I'll be back for season 2 if only to snark with you lot. 🙂
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6 minutes ago, mamadrama said:
I think I misunderstood the narrative of this series. I thought it was a 9 part series about NXIVM (more specifically, DOS). But it's really about a handful of ex members' experience in the cult. And that's fine, but I think I'm disappointed because I was expecting some indepth information about the formation of the cult, how the "tech" worked and was created, the money laundering, underage sex, etc. Instead, it's more or less the personal experiences of a small number of ex members. Kinda like if you'd sat down to watch FYRE FRAUD thinking it was going to be an overview of the failed festival, only to learn that the documentary was really about Influencers A, B,& C's experiences with the festival.
I don't recall seeing this article before but I wish that I had as it gives me a WHOLE different perspective on the filmmakers.
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2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:
Apparently (According to Netflix) is one of the most watched shows This season. So it’s chances of getting renewed just jumped to 50/50.
My understanding is that Netflix bought it as a 2 season, 18 episode project.
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1 hour ago, DanaK said:
If they can focus on the trial, the crimes, the inner circle, and other ex-members without a lot of endless phone calling and texting, it will likely be riveting
From the linked article:
"Set against the backdrop of the federal trial of The United States against NXIVM co-founder Keith Raniere, The Vow: Part Two will offer an exclusive view into Raniere's innermost circle. It'll delve into the stories of NXIVM’s top leadership in the US and Mexico, and into powerful, intimate stories of DOS members."
I'm not terribly optimistic though given that it is the same filmmaking team. Hopefully the attention the series has received will allow them to bring new people into the mix - like an EDITOR or whoever the person is that transforms hours and hours of footage into a cohesive narrative.
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9 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:
I do think India gets to tell her story the way she wants to tell her story but I do agree they should have reduced how much they showed Catherine if she's going to be in the new documentary too. To be fair to her, she may not have known at the time she was filming some of this that her daughter would want to do a documentary. India was still with Keith.
I don't really have a problem with how much Catherine featured in this (aside from the fact that a lot of it was boring) because she really was the catalyst for bringing this whole thing down. Would there even have been any criminal charges filed if not for her efforts? I also don't think the media would have paid any attention without the whole "former Dynasty star tries to rescue daughter from a cult" angle.
Just now, sadie said:Ummm, no words. That is maybe one of the sickest things I’ve ever heard. How Mack avoided prison time is baffling. Sick sick people. I am not a vengeful person but I hope KR gets his ass kicked in prison repeatedly and Mack should be shunned in open society until someone can prove she’s not be the psycho she sounds like here. Once you peer behind the curtain and see what evil was really happening you can’t imagine that people could do these things.
And whoever uppost said Mark was not a good guy was right on the money. I’m a bit upset that up until Ep 8 they wanted us to think he was just some golly shucks good guy that got out once he knew things weren’t what they seemed. His hands were just as dirty IMO on a lot of things. He is no “hero” or whatever bullshit they are trying to sell about him. Run Bonnie, run far, run fast.I think Mack is still awaiting sentencing, no? Or did she plead in exchange for no jail time?
I'm flabbergasted that they're still married.
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This started out somewhat slowly for me but really picked up around episode 3 or so. Yes, it was campy. Yes, there were plenty of eyeroll and/or giggle-inducing moments but I honestly didn't care. Despite every other character being killed off, I found it to be a refreshing break from reality. I also found myself trying to square everything in the first 2 episodes with the novel and the movie and then gave up and just went with it.
I've only seen a couple of prior Ryan Murphy productions (and none of them AHS) so I didn't have that same sense of "I've seen this before."
Sarah, Sophie, Judy, and the production design were the MVPs for me.
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Just released interview with India in Vanity Fair:
As much as I dread spending another few weeks with these folks (via the Starz series) I know I'll be glued to my couch, popcorn in hand.
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Well that took a dark turn. And here I thought Raniere was just trafficking in bullshit Pop/Organizational Psychology 101 word salad spinning. It brought to mind that episode of Fleabag when she and her sister go to that retreat and Fleabag encounters the bank manager at the men's retreat next door.
It sort of makes me reevaluate everything we've seen up until this point. I was just viewing him as some smarmy, narcissistic, MLM con artist. I felt like I was listening to a recruiting session for mass shooters.
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2 minutes ago, Twopper said:
And we knew she meant Prince Charles even before the producer person asked. Doesn't NY have a law against talking on a cell phone while driving unless it is hands-free? That was a total waste unless we find out later that Prince Charles did something to help get India out. Prince Charles has enough problems with his brother and Epstein.
That was just an opportunity for her to name drop. Like in the beginning of the series when they kept going on about her royal lineage only to reveal that her mother was the Princess of a country that no longer exists. 🙄
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SO. MUCH. FILLER. This was the first episode where I found myself thinking, "Ugh. How many more episodes are there? I'm bored with all of this."
Again, with the screwed up chronology. Toni's story and all of the stuff about Consumer Buyline and the founding of ESP should have been introduced WAY earlier in the series, like episode 1. Nancy Salzman is a fascinating character because as someone upthread mentioned, I think she is the true mastermind behind the entire enterprise. She knew about Keith's shadiness from the Consumer Buyline fiasco and didn't immediately kick him to the curb? Uh-uh. There is something tremendously shady about that woman and I feel horribly for anyone who may have been a patient of hers.
The entire "going to Frank's house to compile evidence" thing was so awkward. There was a moment about 2 minutes after Catherine arrived when she was fiddling with her phone and I thought, "She's on Expedia looking for a hotel room." The whole thing was just weird. Also, do Mark and Bonnie essentially live with Catherine at this point? How many clips of them sitting around her living room making phone calls do we have to endure??? Same with the gatherings at Sarah and Nippy's. This shit just isn't compelling.
Now Susan's questioning of the Bronfmans and everyone else associated with this shit show? THAT I could watch 9 episodes of. EASILY.
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Clare Bronfman got sentenced to almost 7 years. 😮
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7 hours ago, DearEvette said:
Also I believe the creation of DOS and the method of their recruitment of women into it may actually rise to the legal definition of sex trafficking. The slave/master thing -- would be fine if it was just kept to a kinky after hours stuff, but that, added to the collateral being collected and the allegations that the women were forced or held down to get the brands, now brings in the spectre of extortion and coercion.
I can't recall whether they've covered this on the show or I read about it in an article (truthfully I feel like I'm getting a clearer picture of this shit from supplemental reading) but some women reported being blindfolded and laid out and then having an unknown person perform oral sex on them.
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5 minutes ago, Proclone said:
I also think she's trying to parlay what happened to her into being something like Leah Remini did with Scientology. However, unlike Scientology, NXIVM is basically defunct. There are still the wack jobs dancing outside Keith's jail cell, but by in large she isn't going to be saving anyone from falling into the clutches of Keith or NXIVM. And also unlike Leah, who listed out all the unpleasant parts of her personality and bad things she's done at the beginning of her book (because she knew Scientology would attack her with them), Sarah doesn't seem self aware enough to know when she's not coming across well.
I want to co-sign your entire post but I wanted to address this specifically as I think you are spot on. She's NOT saving anyone by participating in this and also, Leah Remini was already a quite successful actress/household name before she left the "church", wrote her book, and started her series. I definitely get a "perpetual wannabe actress" vibe from her and think (and here I'm entirely speculating and possibly being a bit cruel) that she thinks this all may lead to something for her in terms of being recognized by Hollywood.
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On 9/28/2020 at 1:28 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:
I have tried to stay open minded about people who were in ESP/NXIVM, but Sarah really rubbed me the wrong way in this episode. I think she really believed that when the article came out, she would become famous and everyone would praise her for her bravery. When she saw the negative comments, she immediately called Barbara and said that people didn't get it and then blame the NYT reporter for not including the nuances.
On a separate note, it has bothered me that she keeps referring to this brand being on her vagina, which is anatomically incorrect. It's really annoying when people refer to the entire bathing suit region as the vagina. Just because it's covered by your underwear doesn't make it your vagina.
I totally cracked up when Barbara said that when she met Keith, she didn't find him attractive. So it wasn't just us!
All of this. ALL OF IT.
She was expecting nothing more than adulation and admiration for her bravery in coming forward and with the timing of the #MeToo movement, thought this would lead to bigger and better things. You could see how she was almost giddy at the prospect. And then as soon as people started expressing a shred of skepticism and asking IMO reasonable questions, she went back into full on victim mode. Don't get me wrong, these people ARE victims, but there is something about Sarah over these last few episodes that has made me seriously question her motivation in being so front and center in this documentary.
And for someone who continues to talk about how traumatizing the brand is, she sure likes to show it off a lot. Get a tattoo over it. Or a skin graft. At the very least, stop opening your pants and showing it to anyone that walks by. 🙄
Watching this in conjunction with Love Fraud over the past few weeks makes me seriously question why so many women are so drawn to ugly, megalomaniacal creeps.
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On 9/22/2020 at 1:16 PM, sadie said:
The weird affectations he had, his puffy odd crooked lips, did anyone else feel a total gay vibe coming off of him (nothing wrong with being gay btw), I’m just saying for all these women to fall for him in DAYS enough to hand over money, leave their husbands, WHAT? This guy?
You're not the only one. As we were watching his interview and he offered up some sad sack excuse I literally shouted at the tv: "Maybe because you're gay!" And I say this as a gay person.
But overall add me to the list of people thinking, "Him, really? HIM???" I failed to see even an ounce of charisma in the guy.
And his prison sentence was an absolute joke.
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Seduced: Inside The NXIVM Cult (Starz)
in Miscellaneous Networks/Streaming Services
Victim impact statements can be found here:
https://frankreport.com/2020/10/27/last-updated-300-a-m-the-sentencing-of-keith-alan-raniere-with-frequent-updates-as-the-hearing-proceeds/
Rot in hell.