Ariam

I finally managed the time to read it on the christmas holidays. I read it in two days.I was a bit disappointed, to be honest. I was expecting excellent writing with the booker price and all, and the first few chapters felt better, but then the writing got sloppier, repetitious and I haven't seen anyone else say this, but the character building felt poor as far as Nicole was concerned. She felt like she was a poorly built shallow character out of a b-grade action movie. What teenager reacts like that to her parents dying, having to abandon her friends, home, life and all with practically no questions and very little emotions. Fuck, she talked more about her "puppy"crush than her parents dying and leaving her life behind. she didn't even demand to get her stuff, any memories from home, say goodbyes or anything. Made absolutely no sense at all. Sure it would have been unsafe but that is just not how people work, when their life is interrupted. Then she is happily practicing self defence and barely objects being sent into Gilead?! When she has shown no sign of being interested in saving people up to then. It made no sense. It also made no sense that once in Gilead instead of being terrified by what she saw and keeping quiet she behaved like a bratty teen. Stupid choice, and made me hate her chracter. I felt like Atwood was trying too hard to make a teenager, when she herself is too old to relate. It was poor, absolutely poor. I also had a hard time buying the aunt Lydia story. in THT she is much more sinister, but her it sounds as if she had made the choice tomake Gilead pay back from the beginning. Also, she says "we all believed this was good in the beginning" which doesn't make sense as she was practically forced into it. And how did all those women go from independent normal working women who loved the law to turturers who enjoyed torturing women? It wasn't explained enough. If anything, they would have been trying to save as many as possible since the beginning. A few days in solitary confinement just doesn't do it. And why where the 4 of them picked, when there were others before Lydia who had chosen to become aunts? So much was left untold, and instead we were given a shot of a poor happy ending action film in book form. Wasn't what I was expecting I'm sorry. The depth, suspense, the relatability was all gone. Makes me think it really is all Atwood behind the ridiculous shit in the TV series. In that sense Nicole fitted well as June's daughter, she had the same ridiculous survival sphere around her and that empty FY attitude. I'm mostly disappointed as I wanted to love it, but just couldn't.

Rita didn't even bring a kid, but she got out. The ones that endagered their lives didn't. Makes no sense at all.

She said she was going to watch the finale "tonight" and then couldn't watch more for a year :) 😉

I honestly thought she must be in her 40s most, in my mind she is around 30 though (which wouldn't make sense as she couldn't be younger than me). But she looked older to me as a wife than I remember her. And now I'm shocked because if she is really that old then it means I'm old too 😄 I just checked and the movies I remember her from are from like 20 years ago, but I thought they were just a few years old. If you google her name the pictures that come up fit my memory a bit better. This is just another example of how female actors mostly disappear after they age, while male actors still head movies, where their co-actresses are 20, 30 years younger. Sorry for the OT.

Wait, was she Marisa Tomei? I didn’t recognise her at all. How old is she now? And most importantly, if she’s now old, how old am I??!! 😱

I agree. With these writers, or whoever it is that decides on the direction (director?) of the show, I have no hope and don't think I will ever watch this again. For me the handmaids' tale has been ruined, which is a shame as the story was amazing and I loved season 1 and to some extent season 2 (although parts of it where horrible, wolves and all). Season 3 mad eme lose hope, so much would need to be redeemed. But if I imagine that it didn't all happen, and that we could forgive a horrible season, then: 1. stop making June an asshole. She is an antihero, but not a smart one, she is most like a teenage bully from a cheap teenage highschool drama. I bet none of the people who tuned in to the program for its feminist idea really appreciate the stupid way June has been developed. Teach her to speak English that doesn't sounds like a 12 year old talking back at her mother. She was an editor after all. Also, get rid of the angry eyes, they are universally hated. 2. also stop making june a marvel comics superhero, it's ridiculous. Gilead used to be scary and terrifying, now you can do anything without getting caught (unless you're black or an unknown martha or any other stranger). 3. use the other actors, I'm much more interested in Emily, Moira and Alma than any of the stupid stuff that makes no sense and has no continuity with the story that season 3 was full of. 4. Serena has to actually get punished for her crimes. Fred of course too.

Hmm, I remember seeing one where she repeats something like "i did all of this" EDIT: Sorry, promo, not trailer. I can't find it on youtube but it's here

I was posting this aptly titled Cosmo review in the June/Moss thread, but then realised it's a pretty good critique of the finale, so I'm posting more on it here instead. Dear God, 'The Handmaid's Tale' Needs to Come Up With a New Plot Twist I was surprised that a source like cosmo actually had some good points of criticism towards June, her decisions mostly, but also the rest of the season and episode. "Throughout the three seasons of The Handmaid's Tale, June has made some seriously dumb decisions. There was that one time she got a Martha killed, for example. There was that other time she tried to stab Serena Joy... in a hospital. And there was that OTHER time she got that family murdered because she stayed with them while plotting her escape. The girl has f*cked up a lot, leaving bodies in her wake as she goes." They even have a little poll to ask how much we are annoyed with June 😄 And as far as the season finale "I know June is attached to finding her daughter Hannah, and she thinks she can't leave Gilead without her. I get it. But this is literally the fourth time we have seen this same exact thing happen. Not only is it infuriating to watch June as a character make the same mistake over and over again, but it's annoying as a viewer to see the Handmaid's writers employ the same plot device for the fourth time. It's not so much of a twist anymore as it is a reason to groan." Honestly, how can they expect people to be happy with them repeating the same story every season (and it just gets worse every time). I get it that they don't think she can escpe Gilead for the show to work, but then for goodness' sake stop making it look so easy to escape gilead that she can keep chosing to leave on the next plane!! It's like she's not even aware that she has a husband and daughter in Canada, and it's very unlikely for her to make it out alive after refusing to go several times (as the chances of dying should be going up). Blah.

The trailer shows June shopping at loaves and fishes, so all the guesses of her going underground are wrong. She seems to get away with no punishment, surprise surprise. Yes but with how HORRIBLY they did with Lydia's backstory I would probably rather imagine it, that watch what they come up with.

I was surprised that a source like cosmo actually had some good points of criticism towards the way in which the character of June has been built, her decisions mostly. "Throughout the three seasons of The Handmaid's Tale, June has made some seriously dumb decisions. There was that one time she got a Martha killed, for example. There was that other time she tried to stab Serena Joy... in a hospital. And there was that OTHER time she got that family murdered because she stayed with them while plotting her escape. The girl has f*cked up a lot, leaving bodies in her wake as she goes." They even have a little poll to ask how much we are annoyed with June 😄 And as far as the season finale "I know June is attached to finding her daughter Hannah, and she thinks she can't leave Gilead without her. I get it. But this is literally the fourth time we have seen this same exact thing happen." Which has me thinking I should probably post this under episode 13. I'll continue over there but leave this here too. cosmopolitan article: Dear God, 'The Handmaid's Tale' Needs to Come Up With a New Plot Twist

From this it sounds to me like she hasn’t understood the whole story at all, and it shows. It’s not about any ruthless crazy system, it’s a country and system based on extreme misogyny. It would be impossible for her to become one of them and in trying to twist the story to do that they’ve lost the whole point of the story, which we related to in the beginning, the way in which woman have absolutely no power or means to protect themselves in Gilead. They were supposed to be afraid of their walking partner, of everyone around, eyes everywhere. In that system June could have never become a powerful badass. Moss’ interview to me reveals that she just doesn’t get it. I think she comes from a privileged position in which she has never had to really face the misogyny at a real meaningful level, and can’t understand it. Which is also why she and the rest of the producers and writers have failed at understanding intersectionality.

Oh i totally agree with both of you I wrote it in the middle of the night my tune and was unclear. I meant just that compared to the other things Serena did that was not the worst they could have arrested her for and I would think from June’s perspective some other things she did to her, including the rape at 9 months pregnant were worse. So I was pissed that this was the *only* thing they accused her of as far as Nick’s rape is f June I’ve always said I can’t understand how anyone would love him and June’s relationship with him, he chose to rape her (and yes there always is a choice!) and at best it was a relationship that was born out of trauma, there was nothing real to it. I agree also that Serena acted as pimp in that rape, for her own benefit. She also stole his child (not that he would have ever shown any signs of really caring)

There should be plenty of other powerful commanders. The show makes no sense. In DC they showed hundreds of handmaids and supposedly getting posted in DC is more powerful than Boston (since Fred wanted to move there). Winslow couldn’t have been running things on his own. They really should have left dc out of it as it made no sense at all and they can’t even follow their own story. But they wanted s cool episode with a silly gigantic cross and blown up statues. They spent so much money on that episode that they had to keep the budget low for the rest of the season and could only pay Moss and a few other actors but not even any of the main characters.

It also didn't annoy me just because it wouldn't be on in Gilead, and she should have been cattleprodded for that, but also because: who speaks that way?! She sounds like a 12 year old with attitude, not a smart woman who is trying to play it safe so she can get out of there alive and possibly help others too. This badass thing is so ridiculous because they've really just turned her into a preteen school bully with no manners. But then again, if the writers only have experience in teen drama then that shows.

Seriously. They have ruined her and made her so unlikeable. I was wondering if they are actually trying to prove what Fred said to be true, Gilead has changed her, but instead of changing her like it should have, into a broken person it's made her a ridiculous asshole. I was really upset about Janine staying back too. And while the show can't have me hold my breath for June I was feeling sick when the guard was firing bullets at them as I was sure they were going to make Janine die. And why didn't Alma escape, wasn't her 5 year old son one of the kids who got out?? Why didn't any handmaids escape with their kids???!!! I was really disappointed that THAT was what they charged her for, after everything else she has been part of. It was such a low, I was actually looking forward to her being arrested, but then when spyguy spoke I was really disappointed. Should have known, shouldn't have expected, silly me! I can't believe your 8 year old is brave enough watch this, mine is scared of disney animation villains 😄 That was what I was thinking, when she asked Moira that question. I didn't find her characther credible at all. She said she didn't remember a time before gilead, yet after 5 years she ran to her dad, and didn't react shyly at all? All of the kids in the program are always these quiet smart kids who dont show any signs of trauma, or being kids. Yes I know what a harsh christian upbringing with fear of punishment is like, but having lived among conservative christians most of my life I also know that they are still kids. As long as Mossy is a producer it's going to be a June show with none of the interesting characters getting any air time. And it's going to be about being a stupid badass. I really don't see, still, how someone who is part of an abusive cult can be allowed to run this show. The whole way they are portraying June as being "a woman of faith" is also absolutely ridiculous, and I think that must be the level of Mossy's spirituality. What happened to it having to be a plane organised by the Jezebel guy?? Suddenly it was a cargo plane that Gilead knew about, but had no cargo? How was the Jezebel guy, if he still was involved able to get on board past the guards? And how did canada know it was arriving with people on board? How did Moira and Luke know? And who on earth was the airline stuart who opened the plane door when it landed in Canada? It made so little sense. Any of it. How did they get past all the guards patrolling the streets, going house to house looking for one girl, with handmaids, marthas and 52 children?? They handily cut that part out because they couldn't have pulled it off.

I was sick at home so I ended up watching both the last episodes. First thoughts on the finale before I read anything else. Apologies if I'm repeating what's already been said. WTF with June being allowed to talk that way to Aunt Lydia?!!!! DEspite the story being hard to swallow as it has been shit all season, , there was something about the tension and the flashbacks that I appreciated. But then those were flashbacks to a time when June still made sense to me, and there was real horror to what Gilead was like. They couldn't put any of that tension into now because now there are no guards in mr Lawrence's yard, he has no eye appointed to his house and everyone can go around planning for 52 kids to escape (and implementing it) with relative ease. The kid who came up during daytime made no sense. Wouldn't her parents have sounded an alarm? If she didn't remember "before" then how come she went along? How did she not remember her parents, she should be old enough. How the fuck can june think she's going to shoot a gun without anyone hearing her and truckfuls of guards coming in to take them all away? How on earth did that martha escape and not get punished/tell what was going on as she cared more about her ass than anything else? The way SuperJune was bossing around her commander also made no sense, it was repulsive. It just makes no sense whatsoever that he would take that from her, he's the man that created the colonies= a man that feels no pity, a proud man, who has power where he is. Why would he let her speak that way? The whole time they have been together in the same house she has behaved in such a way that he would hate her. He has so much power he could get her on the wall that instant. Why would he still want to get out of Gilead, when he lost his wife, the reason he was leaving? Why is the interrogator calling Fred Waterford Commander????? Makes no sense at all. They are giving him way too much respect. He was a nobody in the USA and I don't think they would hold him in such a cushy hotel/whatever detention let alone address him as commander. Where's the waterboading? (Ok I find waterboarding appalling but the point is americans aren't known for treating their terrorists very kindly, and he is a terrorist of the worst kind). It also makes no sense to me that having june sleep with nick is what serena went down for. Although it was rape, it was also something that kept June from the colonies, in a sense she agreed. Why did they not arrest her for being part of destroying the US government and writing Gilead's laws before the whole system started and she was denied of any power? That's her real crime against the nation. Also, raping June before the birth was not something that was necessary or done under duress. I'm still not finished with the last episode, so i'll send this before I finish it.

The thing is, that regardless of the type of interview she doesn’t have very profound thoughts. When she thinks she does it does not come across as very smart. The stupid “badass” talk is exactly what has ruined this series.

I've said this before, but if anyone has ever tried taking a classroom of 25 children on a school trip, who are willingly and happily going, one knows how hard it is to take them all in order where needed. Taking 52 children, including babies away from their homes in a higly guarded place, in the middle of the night would be insane. There is no way the best nanny on earth, or parent for that matter would be able to get them out quietly. It was hard enough for Roberto Benigni to keep his son quiet in Life is Beautiful to survive the nazis, but there is no way 52 children would all simultaneously be ok with playing a game to keep quiet. One or 10 would be sure to start complaining, crying, need to pee, nag their friend and cause a quarrel, or anything at all that little humans do. But this show doesn't give a f*ck about trying to make things credible. The dystopia was supposed to be about the treatment of people and the insanity of gilead, not the insanity of the plot.

I've quit watching. I stopped paying around episode 3, and watched the other ones, but I couldn't bring myself to watching this last episode. I agree with the quote from someone earlier in this thread, that the show is offensive in how it's treating this sensitive subject. IMO they aren't doing anything right. To me they have turned an important story into a parody.

I’ve been saying this the whole time. To me she does not come across AT ALL as a feminist or someone who would understand what Atwood’s story was really about. She seems think that a tough sexy woman role is empowering, when it’s not at all. She doesn’t seem to grasp the l political and smart side of the story and the whole allegory to reality, from the interviews I watched I got the idea that her vocabulary wasn’t very vast (which fits with the fuck this fuck that style they’ve given June). The show tries to be artsy fartsy but can’t, because art has a message and depth, and they don’t. I hate hate hate June in the show and I really don’t want to ever see Elizabeth Moss anywhere again. Let alone her directing anything

I thought that was the hotel where they were shown to be staying in the previous episode. Her leaving the hotel.

After seeing the preview for season 4, in which June repeats with a crazy voice "I did this", here's my new theory on what happens. Now that it's established that June has superninja powers, and Mr Lawrence gave her a gun to single handedly fight off the guards with their machine guns I think that they will finally give June a new superhero identity, with sexy suit and all, while she secretly maintains her handmaid cover identity. Come episode 13, 52+ children, their Marthas, some handmaids, Mr and Mrs Lawrence and a few pets will quietly gather at the Lawrence house, while the trucks come to take them to the plane. Obviously there will be guards that come after them, but June will distract them to save the poor children and the horrible commander who is responsible for the painful death of thousands, including June's mother's. She of course isn't planning to escape, because otherwise season 3 couldn't end exactly like season 2. Instead she will come out dressed in SuperJune suit that the mice Marthas have sewn for her in the cellar, made from a magically woven bullet proof fabric, and she will distract the guards (first with some whitty sexy talk, in a husky voice like she did with Fred and Winslow), then she will go on to shooting them all with her gun, and fight them with ninja moves, throwing out pens at superfast speed, stabbing the poor Gilead guards straight in the heart. No one of course will recognise her as she is dressed in her superhero suit. When all this is over and the cover for the escapees has succeeded, June will go back to her handmaid suit and cry to Aunt Lydia, about how her evil commander has escaped, and the season will end with dear old Aunt Lydia wrapping her arms around good girl June, while some 1990s pop song plays in the background and June stairs directly into the camera with an evil look, behind aunt Lydia's back. 50 Marthas, mostly WOC, get killed for letting the children escape.

Looks like Eleonor slipped the secret to Olivia, and then high school bully June holds her up against the wall to try and scare her into keeping her mouth shut. I don't like the way they are portraying someone with bipolar disorder. Bipolar doesn't make you psychotic or dementic. It doesn't make you stupid either. I don't think the way they have made Eleonor unwell is a good representation of someone who is bipolar. No that was just Mrs Lawrence stupidly suggesting they take Olivia's kids with them. I'm sure the plan is still 52, and the plane takes off in the last episode like shown in the previous spoilers.

Thankfully this week's earworm is a lot better! https://youtu.be/pllRW9wETzw

What was the point of Lawrence giving June the gun? If "they" are coming how is a gun going to help her? Is she going to one handedly fight off the group of trained guards that come in the black van armed with machine guns? They are trained soldiers, she has not even used a gun previously to our knowledge, and they have fucking machine guns. What on earth was the point of the gun???!!! Also, why is commander Lawrence behaving like he's June's puppy?