TheLovelyAnomaly

I haven't read the book but I feel you on the deaths. I watch a lot of gritty stuff and am not easily bothered, but some of the deaths in this show were just gut-wrenching. I'm hard-pressed to cry, but this show managed to jerk a few tears out of me. Kid Sampson and Snowden got me the worst. Good God.

I watched this not long ago. I haven’t read the book (I intend to at some point but I’m a little apprehensive about it because I often struggle to follow nonlinear stories) so I can’t compare the two, but I thoroughly loved the show—the acting, the cinematography, the soundtrack, the unapologetic brutality, and of course, the satire. It walked a delicate line between gritty realism and comedic absurdity, and in my opinion it did so very well.

I found "City on the Edge of Forever" to be overrated. Not bad (I actually quite like it), just not as fantastic as most TOS fans claim it is. I also don't care for "Day of the Dove," one of the more popular episodes from Season 3. Conversely, I really enjoyed "The Gamesters of Triskelion" which a lot of people seem to not care for. To each their own indeed, haha.

That explains a lot. I watched the show last year and remember being like "what the hell?" when I finished the last episode. It was axed way too soon. At the very least we could have gotten a short season three, if only to tie up a few loose ends and give the show a sense of closure.

RIP D.C. Fontana, Robert Walker Jr., and Rene Auberjonois. This month has been rough for Star Trek fans.

Agreed! I laughed so hard watching that scene. I especially liked the bit where Sarah gets aggravated, pulls down Peter's shirt and says, "Is this better?" And Peter's just like, "Whoa." I also loved Peter's awkwardness when it came to romance. I found it endearing--and oftentimes more attractive than Neal's effortless charm (I'm super awkward in real life and about as romantic as a sneeze right before a kiss, so I tend to gravitate towards awkward and unromantic characters; I feel for them, haha). Plus, I adore Tim Dekay. I think he's a wonderful actor, and a cutie. As a side note, it was actually because of Tim that I decided to watch White Collar. I had found Carnivale on Amazon Prime, and had fallen in love with him in that, so I wanted to see what else he'd done. Come to find out I'd seen him in other things beforehand--The 4400, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and Get Smart to name a few--but didn't remember since it'd been so long since I'd watched them. When I saw that he was in White Collar--as a regular, no less--I was like, "Guess I'm hunting down White Collar. I don't think it'll be my thing, but I'm willing to give it a try." Well, I ended up loving the show, and the characters (they mean so much to me), but if it weren't for Tim, I would not be the White Collar fan I am today!

I couldn't agree with you more. Never once did I buy the relationship between Neal and Kate--not on Kate's end, anyway. Maybe it was the way the actress played the character, but her behavior towards him always lacked a sense of sincerity. We were never told, for sure, whether she really loved him or was just conning him, but even so I was never able to believe in her affections for him--not fully. There were moments when I thought "eh, she probably cares about him somewhat," but those moments were fleeting, lol. And in any case, I'd definitely say his love for her far surpassed any she might have had for him. As for Neal's relationship with Sarah, personally I didn't put much stock in it either. I didn't dislike Sarah but I don't think she would have made Neal happy for very long, or vice versa. They were just too different, and I don't believe either would have changed for the other. Their relationship wasn't deep enough for that. It was the old "opposites attract" trope--fun and exciting, but not very logical. Alex's relationship with Neal felt the most natural, and seemed to be the only one grounded in understanding. They also had great chemistry, which is a plus. :)

Exactly, they built it up only to tear it down at the last second. The reveal that James was a killer felt very spontaneous to me--as though the writers themselves were not sure whether to make him guilty or innocent, and finally just decided on a whim to make him guilty. I didn't necessarily have a problem with him being guilty, I just would have preferred it if they'd made his guilt/innocence more ambiguous rather than alluding so strongly to his innocence only to be like "gotcha!" later. The Burma episode really cemented my suspicion that Neal was neglected in some way as a child--those cutting remarks he made obviously came from a personal place--which led to my confusion when the details of Neal's early life were presented. My guess is that, after having idolized his father, once Neal learned the truth about what kind of man his father really was, he was devastated and ashamed. He wasn't the son of a hero after all but the son of a murderer, and how dare his idealization be shattered! He didn't lose his father by an act of heroism, he lost his father because his father had, by choice, committed a horrible crime--a crime that had turned his life upside down. I can picture little Neal thinking something along the lines of, "How could he do something that would take him away from me? I needed him! Didn't he even think of me when he did that?" It was revealed in the show that Neal blames who he is on his father; he tells Peter at one point, "If I'm not my father's son, who am I?" I take that to mean he feels that had his father been a better person--had his father "tried harder," been stronger, smarter, etc.--he may have chosen another path in life. That's what makes the most sense to me anyway. 🙂

The storyline of Neal's dad threw me for a loop, honestly. I thought he was innocent of the cop-killing charge, not because I trusted him but because I trusted Ellen. I remember her saying something like, "Your father was many things, Neal, but he wasn't a killer." I took him as a deeply flawed person with a lot of regrets (he was a dirty cop, after all) who, underneath it all, wanted to do the right thing. How wrong I was, haha! I didn't have any specific thoughts about what happened with Neal's parents, but I did kind of wonder if his dad was some sort of authority figure (like a judge or a town mayor) who either physically or emotionally neglected Neal. I felt it'd make sense given Neal's attachment issues and resentment towards people in charge. :)

Howdy everyone! I just finished watching White Collar on Hulu (I'm way tardy to the party, I know, haha) and loved it! I didn't think it would be my cup of tea since I'm not a police procedural fan and white collar crime doesn't particularly interest me, but this show is so much more than your run-of-the-mill crime drama. The characters and their relationships were the focus, and they were brilliant. (Matt and Tim have excellent chemistry and are both great actors. They so need to do something else together!) The story arcs were engaging and, unlike a lot of other cop-centered shows, it never "jumped the shark" or got tiresome. It was intelligent, fun, humorous, and even moving. I'm so glad I checked it out! 🙂

My favorite episodes from each season. Season 8 I pretty much entirely hated, but I managed to like the two episodes I listed. Season 1: "Dead Man Dating" (This was the first Charmed episode to make me cry.) "When Bad Warlocks Go Good" Season 2: "She's a Man, Baby, a Man!" (Prue having a supernatural sex change was fun!) "Awakened" "Chick Flick" (As a lover of classic movies, this episode was really enjoyable for me.) "Apocalypse Not" Season 3: "Coyote Piper" "The Good, the Bad and the Cursed" "All Hell Breaks Loose" Season 4: "A Paige from the Past" "Saving Private Leo" (This was the second Charmed episode to make me cry.) Season 5: "Witches in Tights" (Witches and superheroes? Yes please!) "Sense and Sense Ability" Season 6: "Sword and the City" "Witchstock" Season 7: "Styx Feet Under" "Charmed Noir" "Carpe Demon" "The Seven Year Witch" Season 8: "Run, Piper, Run" "The Lost Picture Show"

Agreed, they do. But honestly, I'm not sure the show can be fixed at this point. I know that probably sounds like a defeatist viewpoint, but in my opinion, quality is more important than quantity. I'd much rather have a high-quality show that lasts just a few seasons than one that drags on until it becomes stagnant, which is what's happened with TWD. Many of the episodes now are simply there for filler, the "story"--I put that word in quotes because I don't think there is much story anymore--has been destroyed due to TPTB's bad decisions, the characters' personalities have gone back and forth so much (Jesus is a prime example) without any logical reason that they aren't really characters anymore, just faces and names.... The show is limping around with no direction in sight, which I think is a clear sign that it's run out of gas and needs to come to an end. As they say, though, money talks. So long as it can be milked, it will be.

It really makes no sense for the garbage people to speak that way. There's nothing logical about it. I read an article once where the executive producer of TWD, David Alpert, explained that having been removed from any sense of "community" outside the group, and being cut off from things like TV, radio, etc., Jadis and her bunch developed their own dialect. But that makes no sense. The apocalypse didn't start that long ago--the FANDOM Wiki gives the time range of 20 months--and you don't develop all new speaking patterns until after years and years of isolation. The only viable explanation I can give for Jadis and her group's dialect is that they all decided among themselves to speak that way, for whatever reason.

I don't have favorite seasons so much as favorite episodes. That said, though, I really like Seasons 3 and 7.

Alyssa I have no feelings about, since I know practically nothing about her. The character Phoebe, on the other hand, went from being my favorite Halliwell sister to the one who infuriated me the most.

Just finished this show on Amazon Prime not long ago, and that bugged me too. I was like, "Did everyone just suddenly forget that Trubel's a grimm?"

I'm not sure how active people are here given that Grimm's been over since last year, but as a new fan of the show, as well as a horror fan who has a general interest in things dark and, well, grim, I'm curious: What is, in your opinion, the most disturbing Grimm episode? For me it's a toss up between "Organ Grinder" and "El Cuegle."

No one is making excuses. Nowhere did anyone say Barnabas'--or any man's--shitty behavior was okay. All anyone did was put it in historical context. Whether you like Barnabas or not (that is beside the point), his attitudes and actions are, in general, consistent with wealthy men of his time period. As a side note, on the topic of shitty behavior, let's say that Barnabas did kick Angelique to the curb once the rich girl became available (which is just an assumption since we don't know the details of Barnabas' and Angelique's relationship). Does that excuse what she did to little Sarah, magically causing her pain to manipulate Barnabas into marrying her? Does that excuse her enslaving Ben? Does that excuse her putting a spell on Josette and Jeremiah? What did any of these people do to her? It's one thing to sympathize with Angelique (and being a person who can understand someone's behavior while not agreeing with it, I am one of those people), but I definitely wouldn't call her innocent either.

Well said!

I speak for myself, of course, but I never got the impression that I was necessarily supposed to see Barnabas as a hero, just as a main character. He’s given a backstory and becomes more nuanced—that is, he moves away from being a one-note “devil incarnate” character—but that’s a far cry from saying he turns into a hero. Danny Horn, the author of the blog “Dark Shadows Every Day,” actually addresses this when he covers the Count Petofi story: People are always going on about how the characterization of Barnabas changed at some point — that there’s a period when he stopped being a villain, and became the hero of the show. Describing that process usually involves the words sympathetic, reluctant and/or redeemed. This theory is entirely false. Because Barnabas didn’t stop being a villain, and he didn’t become the hero of the show. As far as I can figure, there is no hero of this show, because Dark Shadows is a five-year research project to determine if the concepts of “hero” and “villain” are even necessary to tell an engaging story. It turns out they’re not. Barnabas’ defining characteristic is that he will do absolutely anything he wants to do, if it advances his own interests. He will murder you, hypnotize you, drink your blood, lock you up in a cell, wipe your memory, and help the monster who killed you escape justice. This is true in every period of the show. The only important thing that really changes in Barnabas’ character over time is that at a certain point, he decides to give a shit whether David Collins lives or dies. As far as I can tell, that is the definition of whether Barnabas is a villain or a hero. But now that he’s crossed that line, he’s doing exactly the same things. He’s still murdering people; he just doesn’t try to murder David Collins. It’s not that big of a difference. So Barnabas isn’t a hero. He’s a main character, which is even better. Heroes have to be nice all the time; main characters just need to be interesting. Literally the only important quality that a main character needs is that any given scene is more interesting when that character is present. Beyond that, they can do whatever they like. While I don’t agree that the only change Barnabas makes is deciding he cares about David, or that heroes have to be nice all the time, Barnabas does do morally reprehensible things throughout the show. And even if Dan Curtis did indeed intend for Barnabas to be seen as exemplary (which I would blame the viewers for more than anything; I mean, Barnabas wasn’t even originally supposed to be a long-lasting character. He stayed due to his popularity, and his characterization often followed viewer demand), I wouldn’t say he’s portrayed that way. Jonathan Frid even stated in an interview that he liked to give his characters complexity, whether they were intended as heroes or villains. I can’t remember his exact quote but it was something like, “Give me a good character, and I will find the evil within them. Give me a bad character, and I will find their good.” As for what happened to your great-great-great grandmother (I'm sorry to hear about that, by the way), I think rape may have been seen/handled differently from infidelity, which is what I was talking about. Obviously I wasn't around in the 18th or 19th centuries and I'm sure there were times when disapproval was expressed and justice was carried out, but from what I've read, sleeping around was not considered much of a betrayal on a man's part, not nearly as much as when a woman committed adultery. In early 19th century France, for example, a woman convicted of adultery could expect to spend two years in prison, and the sentence was doubled for each subsequent conviction; a man, on the other hand, could expect to pay a fine for adultery, and that was only if he had entertained his mistress within the family home. In other words, outside the home a man could essentially do whatever he liked, as far as sexual affairs were concerned. During 18th century England, wealthy men would openly and proudly flaunt their mistresses at social gatherings, something a woman wouldn't dream of doing. Also, divorce was out of the question for a woman, as she could not legally own property and was financially dependent on her husband, which more or less forced her to overlook his adultery regardless of how intensely she may have disproved of it. Disapproval of infidelity did exist, but male infidelity was--if not celebrated within certain social circles--generally ignored, or at most, barely punished. Nowadays, according to surveys and polls, people are becoming less and less permissive of it as a whole, and adulterous men are more likely to suffer damage to their reputations.

My turn! :) I recently finished the series and there were several scenes that stood out to me, for various reasons. Some of the ones that stood out to me the most were: During the dream sequence segment, when Vicki tells Barnabas the dream, knowing it will kill him. The dream sequence itself didn’t affect me, but the scene when Barnabas urges Vicki to tell him the dream so it won’t drive her crazy, and she refuses because she knows that if she does he’ll die, got to me. When she finally breaks down and tells him, and he leaves her crying in the drawing room, my heart broke for her. I couldn’t imagine having to make a decision like that. When Barnabas and Joshua say their goodbyes right before Joshua has Barnabas chained up in his coffin. I think what intrigued me most about this scene was that it showed a softer side to Joshua’s character. Louis Edmonds allowed himself to be vulnerable here, and despite all the unlikeable qualities Joshua had, I found myself sympathizing with him. The look he and Barnabas share before Barnabas leaves is haunting. Jamison rejecting Quentin after seeing Beth about to commit suicide and learning that Quentin plans to marry Angelique. This was heartbreaking for me because I loved the uncle/nephew bond between Quentin and Jamison. What makes the scene even more painful, in my opinion, is that Quentin’s agreement to marry Angelique was in exchange for her help in saving Jamison’s life. In essence, Quentin loses the person he claims to love the most, for trying to save him. When, shortly after Jeb’s death, a devastated Carolyn is brought into the house and sat down. Regardless of how one feels about Jeb as a character (I personally found him interesting, especially in his later episodes when he became more conflicted), it’s evident that Carolyn loved him, and you can’t help but feel a portion of her grief. Her pain in this scene is palpable. When Julia offers to give her a sedative and she responds with (and I paraphrase), “I don’t want a sedative, I just want Jeb!” I got the sense that I was looking at a woman who had truly just lost her husband.

Agreed! I felt so much satisfaction when Jason McGuire got his. Pretty sure I cheered, haha.

Oh yes, that's another great one. I remember being drawn to that scene, and especially to Frid as he delivered his lines. It was as if he were picturing the sequence of events as he spoke of them, and putting himself in his characters' shoes. His performance was very organic. And I agree with your point about Vicky. I love the show, but I do wish Vicky hadn't devolved the way she did. Even after the show started focusing on the supernatural, I think the writers could have done more with her. She had so much potential; it was a real shame the way she fizzled out.

That's a good one! And I agree, the performances by both actors were superb! :)

So I just finished watching Dark Shadows--minus most of the pre-Barnabas episodes, which I'll probably go back to at some point--and as a new fan, as well as someone who loves discussing mutual interests with people, I'm curious to know what my fellow Dark Shadows fans consider to be some of the show's most memorable scenes. When I say "memorable scenes," I'm referring to scenes that stood out and left an impression. They can be sad, disturbing, funny, exciting, what have you--so long as they're memorable to you. :) P.S. I apologize for the title of this topic being boring. I'm not good with witty titles. XD