SnapeCharmer

I'm going to let Peter's words speak for themselves. Here is a transcript of the first part of the conversation that was aired.: "I am in love with you. That became very clear to me today. But these feelings are so recent. They've been growing to this point, all throughout. But I don't feel that I'm ready to ask you to marry me tomorrow. But I don't want to stop being with you. I do see a future with you. And I want to make those steps but in time. And I'm sorry that its taken me this long. But I'm not able to act on impulse, and I feel like just now realizing the feelings I have for you is not enough for me to say that I want to spend the rest of my life of my life with you. But I know that I want to try hard. Like, really hard. But it's too new to say that I'm gonna give away the one thing that I hold so special and dear to my heart that I'll never get back. I have one opportunity and I want to make sure that it's the right one. I choose to have one opportunity. And that is my choice. I want to build a relationship with you. I'm not able to tell you why it was not an instant I want to marry you for me. Rachel: I'm not looking for an instant I want to marry you. I just feel like if you had gotten to this point, that's what you would want right now. And I just - I don't know how many times to say it - I just want somebody who wants what I want, and then wants that with me. Keeping in mind that we only observed a portion of the three hour conversation they had on that last chance date, I omitted most of Rachel's replies, because Peter did most of the talking and she really didn't begin talking outside of some small acknowledgements until the second half of the aired conversation (after commercial break). Call it push and pull, wishy-washy, indecisive, or whatever, but even in this very small portion of the conversation, her doubts are confirmed.

I've always maintained that they all signed their names on the dotted line AND most are there for more than just romance and to find true love. That's a given. But in Rachel's defense, she has been upfront about what she wanted at the end and never wavered. There's no way around that. Where I fault her in the case of Peter is that when he told her in Geneva that at once point he considered leaving, she should have cut him loose then and there. No matter what he said after that. As soon as he spoke those words, he should have been gone. IMO, once a guy admits he was willing to bail on you, then that's a full sign he doesn't see you as someone worth fighting for. I am not a person saying that she didn't want or have feelings for Peter. I think she did. I think she does for Bryan as well. I think she was torn between the two at that time for different reasons. In the end, one set of reasons outweighed the other. I've been in a similar situation: Had a guy we'll call Mr. Complicated that I was really passionate about who always told me that he felt we were meant to be. Emotions ran high with him and whenever I was with him, it was like I was in a haze. But he constantly broke dates and there was always some internal and external drama he had going on. He was unreliable. On the other hand, I had a guy who pursued me vigorously. Kept his word (if we had a date, he never cancelled). Was clear about what he wanted and that he wanted it with me. My feelings for him were there, but I kept being pulled toward the what if with Mr. Complicated. In the end, I went with the guy that was showing me, constantly and consistently he wanted to be with me. And guess what, that guy married me.

I'm no fan of his for sure, but earlier in the season I thought he was one of the most good looking in the bunch. I was surprised during the Live show that he looked a bit aged and sallow. Maybe it was the lighting and all that somberness he was trying to work up for the audience.

I agree. I also think she knew he was playing up to the cameras and that what he was doing was very reminiscent of what Lee was doing to Kenny. Trying to turn things around on her, and paint her in a certain light to elicit sympathy from the audience. I personally loved her exchange with him during the Live Show. I didn't like the format, but I loved how her demeanor and what she said made it plain to him, that he may have gamed her before, but she was on to him and he wouldn't play her again.

I think she had deep feelings for both men. But was leaning toward Bryan most. Peter kept dangling a carrot (pushing and pulling) and that was causing her to second guess herself. So, to the point of that other poster, I think her wanting him to propose is true to some extent. She wanted him to want her as much as she wanted him. Bryan already showed her that he wanted her, there was never any real question about that, even if she was skeptical at first of his intentions. Peter was like the man(men) she'd dated before. He was the familiar, blockading her from accepting the guy that was all in. The long break up was also a product of producer meddling. I'm sure they were poked and prodded, to sit there and talk it out to death. Sleep deprived and stressed emotions can get away from you. It's almost like a form of torture. The producers knew what they were doing. They got the result they wanted (maybe even better than they expected). But it is unfortunate Rachel had to go through that, and have it framed in such a skewed, humiliating way.

They do, and that's what matters. Rachel got her happy ending. Whether they stay together or not, I hope they both get everything they want out of this and move on with their lives.

I saw that. It's super cute! She was wearing the jersey Bryan gifted her. It's says Big Rach and Dr. Abs on the back. At the bottom it says I'll always have your back. Too bad the producers left that out of the show.

Yes! I like your analysis of the conversation. I think the way some people are interpreting it could be based on where their sympathies reside; With her or with Peter. But looking at it objectively and in total, it's pretty clear. I would say more about why sympathies fall this way or that, but I found certain discussions can be prickly in mixed company.

I agree with a great deal of what you wrote. I think looking back on the DeMario confrontation, there is a clear connection to why Rachel was so upset with Peter during the Live Show. After she came back to the locker room to talk to the guys, she stated that she was not there to be played or made a fool of and that she felt sick that she'd sent guys home (in favor of keeping DeMario and others). I think that was a real moment, and who could blame her? I believe her reaction at the Live Show was about feeling played, feeling used, feeling like she was made a fool of and in some ways feeling a bit guilty that there were men who truly were there for her, that she sent home in favor of this connection she thought she had with Peter. But it wasn't real. Let's be honest, he played with her emotions a great deal. During the LCD, she's crying in her confessional and she pretty much lays out what's troubling her with him: "It is frustrating. It's messing with me, all the future talk. It's like I'm forcing something to happen and you just don't want me in that way. That's how I feel about Peter. But then I get confused when you start telling me how we're gonna spend our lives together. And Peter isn't somebody who just says something to be saying it. So I'm just so confused as to how you can see forever with me, but you can't do the step you have to, to get to forever. I don't get it." When she later says it was a constant push and pull, that was very accurate. Classic emotional manipulation. His words of love, were just that. words. There was no sincerity to back them up. This tactic was also used during the live show. Slumped over backstage before he came to address Rachel, CH and the audience somber eyed and contrite. "I tried to reach out to Rachel...I feel attacked...blah blah..." But low and behold, a day later he shows up on GMA heart mended, bright eyed and singing a different tune. Now suddenly, Rachel did the right thing not choosing him. However during the show he said the complete opposite. Post-show through surrogates he has insisted the opposite. During the show , Bryan's not sincere, blah blah. But the most telling thing about his GMA appearance? He now open to becoming The next Bachelor. He says, he's going to think on it. How interesting indeed.

I think this scenario is very plausible. Maybe not the bonuses for kisses etc. but the handlers and manipulations, totally.

I don't disagree. Isn't that what they do on Married at First Sight? (Haven't seen it before)

You almost made me a believer.

I respectfully disagree.

I'll keep my thoughts succinct: From the beginning Rachel stated that she came on the show to find her future husband. That was definitive from day one. She was not looking for a boyfriend, but a husband. Period. This show is not the dating game, dating in the dark, or singled out. It's The Bachelorette. Everyone knew what they signed up for. Aside from that, this is a show and editing techniques make portrayals suspect. It's in their contracts. If Peter's heartbroken, color me surprised. Because hours before the live finale, he was on SM seemingly living his best life. Not heartbroken. Rachel's moved on. She's with Bryan and every time we see them together she glows, smiles and is full of laughter. She's living her best life too. Despite what anyone else thinks or says.

Yep. Mission accomplished. I guess we'll see him on our screens again in 2018 and I for one will drag him to hell and back again!

YES! The meltdowns have been epic! Thank you internet. Made my night! *sips wine*

Yes! Andrew's season was my favorite!

Re: Demario IMO, it's not about whether Lexi was his gf or some casual hookup. The point was that when confronted, he first stated he didn't know the woman at all. Within ten minutes he changed his story multiple times. Simply put, he's a liar. That shows poor character and therefore, Rachel was right to send him packing. Any woman that crosses his path should be wary. Red flags are flying all over the place with this one.

But the debate wasn't about Love, it was about proposing. Every Bachelorette prior to Rachel received a proposal, the exception being Jenn S, because she refused both suitors. In the real world, Peter's stance would be understandable and logical no question. But if he wanted to take things slow and date the old fashion way, he wouldn't be on The Bachelorette. Just sayin' I happen to agree with the sentiment that most of these people do not come on the show for love. It's more than obvious. Some happen to find it along the way (good for them), but those are the exceptions rather than the rule. ETA: The show is selling a fantasy. That fantasy is romance. So if you're coming on the show, be ready to sell the fantasy or why bother?

No comment. Okay? I agree, she's a beautiful and smart young woman. As to your point, this is what I gathered from her commentary as well. Thanks for sharing that Harvard link!

Yes. He wants it. Most of them do.

IMO, considering who's left, each gentleman's back story, age, career, education, personality, looks, compatibility to Rachel and willingness to commit...Eric would be my pick hands down. Bryan's history is sketchy, Peter's history is sketchy (so are his actions during and post show). But I know Rachel is not that into Eric. At least that's how I see it, So with him out of the running, I would think her best bet is to walk away. Besides, her dating pool will upgrade exponentially after this show. She never needed it to find a husband in the first place. I hope she gets her sportscaster career though.

Re: The men and Rachel speaking about Lee This beautiful young lady did a great recap that addresses a lot of the points you all mentioned in this thread. I happen to agree with her:

Yes! Also, notice that things didn't heat up as much toward Lee, until Dean spoke up. I could tell the Black suitors didn't feel as comfortable going all in on Lee at first. Not until Dean presented a gateway. As much as that disturbs me, I've seen this happen all the time in the everyday world. In Hollywood we've see it a lot too. People are afraid to lose future opportunities if they call out racism when they see and hear it. ABC should be shamed as much as Lee. They knew what he was about and invited him on the show featuring the first Black Bachelorette. Pure exploitation. The sad thing is that they will keep lining their pockets and not have to deal with the real world implications of their actions. Rachel, the cast, and those of us that live with it everyday, will.

You are the first person in any discussions I've read on this show that has admitted that. Most of the Peter mania to me is about some women being in love with him, not for Rachel, but for themselves.