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But until just last season, the audience was supposed to think that Jon is a Stark, not a Targaryan. I don't see that as a fair comparison because it wasn't confirmed that he is a Targaryan. Now that we know he is, maybe people will start to view him differently (or he'll be written differently).

I would never have called Westeros "progressive." I know this isn't a real time period in actual history, but if it was, it would be middle ages/medieval times - so way less progressive than even Victorian England.

But let's not forget that Dany literally has "madness" run in her family. I don't characterize her that way, and I see her as equal to any other male contender, but if someone else does it could be because of her family history - not just because she's a woman.

I see your point, but I guess I have to still respectfully disagree - because that's the way some shows and plots have to work. It's just a fictional television show (based on books) afterall. And for example, the part I bolded, it's a show about warring kingdoms; so of course some characters are leaders and give orders, and some characters are soldiers and follow orders. Sam is a soldier tasked with becoming educated, but that doesn't make his mission any less important. Were his scenes a bit boring? Sure. But I can't just discard him. He had his character moments in previous seasons.

There's your reason why it's different, in bold. Jaime and Robb and even Ned all did things during a time of war, and sometimes at the order of someone else (at least in Jaime's case). Arya is acting alone as a vigilante. (As a comparison, would we call a modern day member of the military a murderer, or someone who was just doing their job during time of conflict? An army lieutenant, for example, is just doing their job. Is Arya in an army?)

If Arya really kills 7 Lannister soldiers for no reason other than them being Lannisters, then she's irredeemable to me. That act alone proves, at least in my opinion, that she's a clear sociopathic murderer and not just someone who is avenging her family. Those soldiers did nothing to her, killed no one she knew, and even said they didn't want to be there. Absolutely no reason to kill them.

But isn't that Sam's character? He was sent to the Citadel to learn everything he can and be a maester. So of course he's determined to gain access to everything he can and help Jon in every possible way with all the knowledge he can. I'm sorry, but I don't understand your complaint here.

Robb and Jon are practically the same age, only months apart, IIRC.

Sorry, but you just named 9, and the Iron Islands are not a Kingdom. The great houses are: 1. Stark of Winterfell, rulers of The North 2. Tully of Riverrun, rulers of The Riverlands 3. Arryn of the Eyrie, rulers of The Vale 4. Lannister of Casterly Rock, rulers of The Westernlands 5. Baratheon of Storm's End, rulers of The Stormlands 6. Tyrell of Highgarden, rulers of The Reach 7. Martell of Sunspear, rulers of Dorne The North, The Vale, The Stormlands, and Dorne are definitely not allies of Cersei's anymore, and I think The Reach is questionable.

A few bodyguards... but 3 dragons. Dragons who flew out and scouted the island and castle in advance. Only 20 men wouldn't stand a chance.

Anyone in Westeros with half a brain will put two and two together to realize that they were all poisoned by a Stark or someone supporting the Starks. No one has to know it was Arya specifically for them to want revenge on the Starks. Who cares if no one believes them that Walder Frey removed his face and was Arya - the women will still pass the message that "the North remembers" and "winter came" for them.

I never said Joffrey's murders were justice in any way, shape, or form; I didn't claim anything. Sorry, but you did, and it made no sense to me, so I didn't address it. All I said was that he did his killings in the time of war, which has been the entire series. Is there not still a war going on? And it started in season 1, so... but never anything about Joffrey dispensing "justice" on innocent people. That's murder. Joffrey may have been king at the time, but he was a king who murdered. None of those people did anything wrong for which they needed justice. But yet everyone is defending Arya by saying she dispensed "justice" because Frey wasn't innocent; well, that's murder too, because she had no authority to dispense justice. She's a vigilante.

Well, they sure take Oaths seriously, so why wouldn't they take laws seriously (assuming there are some, like what happens when you break an oath...). Joffrey did his killings in the time of war, and I've already explained my opinion on the difference. Timing matters. Robert appeared to have established "law and order" in the country for many years between the time of his rebellion and this new war. So that's why I say that there were laws and people authorized to carry out those laws. And she does have an impressive body count; she became a murderer because she hates murderers. Yep. ::eyeroll:: (She's even worse in the books, in my opinion.) I guess I didn't pay enough attention. Is it Valyrian steel? (Sorry if I can't spell.) If so, Jon's going to need that.

I was thinking that too - where are all the women and children? His army appeared to only be men. Do they use a sword? I thought it was the fire that was special? Melissandre didn't need the sword for Jon.

I must have totally blocked this out from last season. Bran was marked by the Night King? And Bran knows for sure what he did and what that means?

In the beginning of the series, there was a justice system. Albeit primitive, it was there. Ned Stark had the authority in the North, and he did so with the Night's Watch when he punished the deserter. The status of any laws is up in the air now that the country is at war, but they at least used to exist. Arya has no power; she's not a queen or ruler. Her power only stems from the fact that she can put on other people's faces and therefore hide and trick them. That's not "power" at least in the sense that I was ever referring to; she has no legal authority. IMO, Arya is a hypocrite. She has this list of people she wants revenge on because they murdered someone in her family. But now she's a murderer. So she's just like the people she hates. Um... ok. Just not a favorite character of mine for many reasons - her vigilante justice is only one.

Me too! Peanut butter chocolate...

Wait, what? Why is

We also needed the scene with Jorah. But I agree about the chamber pots...

I don't understand what you mean? I'm not really advocating for anything. I'm acknowledging that while Westeros does have laws, it's in turmoil right now and the kings/queens in charge are fighting a war rather than punishing people for crimes. And just to be clear, I don't entirely dislike what Arya did, because I liked Robb. But, she's now a mass murderer. She has no authority to dispense justice, so all she did was a revenge killing. She's no better than who she killed, and shouldn't be hailed as some hero, in my opinion.

Nope, probably not. But that still doesn't mean that it's up to Arya to dispense justice. Now who is going to seek revenge on her and call it justice? Long, downward spiral, but I guess that's what makes the show. ETA: And don't get me wrong, it's not that I ever thought that anyone would enforce the laws and punish Frey accordingly. It's just that I still don't think it's up to Arya to do it, and what she did is still murder and makes her no better than him. Again, that spiral...

Dany's childhood home is Dragonstone, where Stannis lived and ruled from after the Rebellion and Robert became king. It's only been abandoned since Stannis left and went north to help Jon at the Wall. Yes, I think if anyone can find a cure, it's the maesters at the Citadel. Afterall, someone cured Shireen of grayscale, so there's hope out there for him.

Exactly. Shouldn't Arya learn from others' mistakes, especially when she's criticizing those mistakes, and not make them herself? Another reason why I don't think she's all that smart. Impulsive and street smart, but not exactly intelligent.

Of course, but a revenge killing is still murder. Westeros has some laws; pretty sure that still counts as murder there. (But, like I mentioned before, I'm biased because I'm not an Arya fan. So it's ok to agree to disagree.)

I think Sam said he didn't believe Stannis?