theOAfc

Are you copy pasting your comment now? lmao

"Katie Cassidy will be a series regular once again on #Arrow in Season 6 — she'll play Black Siren, who reappears in the final two eps of S5"

If they bring her back for good and make her BS redemption a big story for next year(instead of a small arc that will take max 3 episodes) im gonna laugh so hard. Its gonna harm the show imo,because once you kill a character you should let go.

Thats fair but i wouldnt pay much attention to what CG and his friends have to say(if thats the paps youre talking about) outside of spoilers about the show's filming locations and storylines. CG used to say that noone likes Emily from the cast and that Colton pretended to be friends with her. He tends to spread lies about bts when it comes to actors he doesnt like or he tries to analyse facts to prove that actor "X" is cruella de vil or that his opinion on a certain actor is valid because "Y" person said something. He used to say that Emily never stops to talk to fans or that she is always rude to them even though quite a few photos pop up from time to time from fans that talk to her in public areas. He specificaly mentions one incident with a French fan and EMily in Van outside of the arrow set, as an example all the time, whenever people question his words about Emily being rude and a "b@tch"(his words). So they could do the same with KC. Not that i dont think there was some bts that went down with her and EPs.

Well,if i am to believe she is back due to bts and her team pushing for more , then i can believe they killed her off because they had issues with the actress, whether the character had a big fanbase or not. lol

The writers said she is a fan favorite(which is stupid but they did say it,they do see her loud stans on their mentions daily and reddit was all over the internet after her death whether we admit it or not). I mean sure, she doesnt create that much buzz but she does create more than any of the newbies and there are only a few things about the show that still create some buzz. I think she is one of them. I mean im pretty sure ratings wont really be any better for 5x20 than they are nowadays, but does this mean olicity isnt one of the most popular aspects of the show? No. At the end of the day,whether she is really that popular or not what matter is what these writers think and im pretty sure they pay too much attention to what the internet screams on their mentions.

We dont really know that though. People always assume stuff about her, claiming she was fired etc and while i do admit its weird to kill her character off only to introduce a new version of her character,i cant say that them bringing her back is due to contracts and bts. Maybe they simply try to create internet buzz with keeping her loud fans active. They literally used her as mid season finale cliffhanger. That says a lot about what they think sells around.

Dinah gets more focus this season than Thea. Its bad that they cant give story to a core character that is also a masked vigilante(so its not like they struggle to include her in the main story) but they jump to give full focus and background screentime to a character that just joined the show. Same for Wild Dog. However in this show,new guest stars are treated like core characters and core characters are treated like new guest stars.

At this point i dont see why they would bring KC back as BS apart from them just trying to create some internet buzz with feeding her stans. So what,are they gonna redeed BS? Are they gonna milk the "is she a crazy villain or a misunderstood antihero" debate like they tried(and failed) to do with Merlyn? Seems like apart from some very loud comic fans of Laurel Lance, noone will be hyped with this. Ratings certainly wont rise. Im personally tired of anything KC. When you write off a character,be done with them and move on. Whats with the back and forth with dead or long forgoten characters popping up every other episode? Nothing new to tell? its not like they dont have the newbies now to re-do old stories. I also know quite a few people that dropped arrow this season because they couldnt stand how the show was forcing the talk over Laurel's(non existent) legacy. Seriously,last i checked she was an overglorified sidekick that never earned her importance but many people were ok with it as long as she carried the comic title. She is dead,move on and stop trying to make her more relevant than when she was alive. Jeez. I saw as many as i see now.

To be fair,Stephen teased Deathstroke for the 100th too(posting pics etc) and many thought Manu was gonna play in it(Manu also tweeted stuff being snarky about the episode back then) so i think he is not really coming back and Stephen is just using the media hype his character creates.

I actually think now its leaning more towards 40/60 than the 30/70 of early seasons(obviously this number is my own perception of what i see around). Back then many male and female general fans loved olicity. I remember the olicity comments would hit 1K likes in an hour and the anti LL would hit 1K too. And it wasnt just on one facebook page,even in SA's page and in other corners of facebook olicity was pretty popular both to men and women. And twitter has always been much more olicity friendly than facebook. Now ever since LL became BC the L/O popularity grew and even more comic purists would root for them unlike with early seasons. As for tumblr,olicity ranked as the 4th(if i remember correctly) most reblogged ship back in s3-s4(2015) while now it dropped to 13th or something for 2016(huge drop over a year). Even on twitter the popularity of LL and comic canon endgame grew even more in later seasons(however if you ask me i think it was bound to happen as a reaction to LL dying,everytime a main character dies people get extra loud). So i personally think the olicity popularity reached its peak in s3 and ever since it keeps dropping(it is also hated a lot over the last year ) while the L/O ship got more popularity ever since she became BC because much more expected the show to fulfill canon. Back in s2 there were also some Sara/Oliver shippers and many comic purists wanted her to be the BC instead of LL so there was that too .

Looking at twitter and facebook,the biggest media that fans often visit(not even counting tumblr which is more popular than reddit) people loved olicity and couldnt stand anything LL back in season 2. I do think the L/O pairing had its fans,mainly comic purists, but honestly it wasnt even close to 30/70 compared to the olicity popularity back then. There are people that have heard of the word olicity and not the word arrow. That was never the case with L/O. However, forums often include the most passionate and updated with news groups of people over tv shows and L/O shippers have proven to be pretty loud about their comic canon so i can understand why the debate was strong in the boards back then. But the number of people populating boards doesnt compare to the big social networks like facebook and twitter where you get a better taste of the general fans' opinions.

Its weird that Willa said "its not up to me" when asked about more Thea. Why would they sideline her character so much for newbies? Im starting to believe certain rumors about writers warning Willa over personal stuff interfering her work on the show might be true.

My argument is that writers would put her on the show this season and see how people perceived her and her dynamic with the lead. Not that they would write towards anything romantic between them. And like someone already said,she got her own flashbacks episode and had plenty of screentime with Oliver during that. I never believed they wanted to test waters with this dynamic this season but if you ask me i do think they had on the back of their mind(and maybe still do) the possibility of testing waters next season if they got some good feedback,even more than they get for olicity. Which is why i used the Dinah/Dig scenes as an example. They react to feedback,they prove it again and again with how they change the show every year. Olicity was born from fan support in my opinion(and thats ok because i think TV should react based on what works on screen and overall feedback from fans and critics is a good indicator about whether or not stuff work on screen). I do think they failed with KC /SA but if it wasnt for the overwhelming fan support they wouldnt go there with olicity,they would simply test new characters to have Oliver be in a relationship with, untill people would show feedback. At least thats my opinion. The chemistry argument is always used to explain why they decided for Emily to come back and eventually become a regular. She was after all,only meant to share a random one off scene with the lead so obviously they would comment on the chemistry with the lead to explain why they wanted her back (I do think they oversell it ever since they had olicity become a thing romantically). They could say the same about a male character and his chemistry with SA,because chemistry between actors isnt always about romance,its just how well two actors work. Also,you are talking about O/D as if Dinah has beeen part of the show for years. You need to remember that Olicity was almost non existent back in s1,with the writers putting felicity on scenes here and there mainly for comic relief. However years later and olicity got a lot of focus. Dinah is only in the show for like 7 episodes. Actutally as i said, they didnt write towards olicity before the show was on air,they simply decided to write more scenes with felicity because she had chemistry with stephen. They said themselves they didnt intend anything romantic back then. So again,thats my point here,they dont intend to write towards D/O as anything romantic but if they see overwhellming feedback why not test the waters next season? Thats exactly what happened with Olicity imo. The reason why i and others might think the writers have on the back of their minds that possibility,is mainly because she is BC. And we all know how much certain loud stans love comic canon. I dont understand why its considered so wrong by some that some people think about that scenario. Its not like the show hasnt done many weird things,based on actual feedback. They gave Laurel/Oliver a 100th wedding,im 99% sure it was meant to please certain stans(actual fanservice here) and it did. And IMO they never have actual well thought plans. They have ideas and they either stick to them or change them,based on feedback. Happens all the time. Happened with L/O .

Last i checked they didnt intend anything with Tina/Dig but some already started rooting for them. Chemistry can present something differently,unless you think Olicity was a plan from the start of the show. I dont think Amell and Julianna lack chemistry but they certainly dont have anything special for general viewers to go out and think theres something going on between the characters. Unlike with Olicity that from the very first second some loved them and shipped them. Dig and Tina had a lot of chemistry from the first scene and people saw that even though the show didnt intend something like that.

They didnt ignore olicity questions,they shut them down even being snarky to fans. Its all about the attitudes. In s3 they didnt have this attitude at all even though they would pretend that olicity might not become a couple eventually,whenever they were asked. I kinda agree with this. If they indeed put them back together or almost put them back together this season,ill be 99% sure they had planned from start to eventually bring them back together(thats not without saying i dont believe a potential GA/BC romance was on the back of their minds in case people showed any overwhelming love towards the dynamic-they do pay attention to feedback and react accordingly after all). That being said,the axecution tells me that they tried too much to earn back certain people by harming the dynamic, hoping olicity fans would stick around for the endgame ,enjoying the little teases ala s2. It didnt work for many who are here for a good build up and overall journey,including me. I could go on to explain why i think the show completely failed with this dynamic but this board has mentioned all the issues again and again and eventually its up to whether or not people are willing to ignore terrible writing as long as their favorite couple gets back together. Im sure there are some that genuinely love the way they are handled though. Thats respected. That was my issue from the start of the season. I literally saw casual viewers on facebook asking if flashpoint erased their romantic history. Its also why them suddenly dealing in one episode after so much time, with what happened before s5 started, might seem out of nowhere because during the whole season the show tried to sell Oliver and Felicity had zero issue moving on and remaining friends. We never saw the struggle or how they got from being awkward to being work buddies. A filler episode seems more like a reaction to feedback than them building to anything.

I expect a flashforward in the season finale's last minutes.

I personally think they didnt plan on actually dealing with what happened during hiatus or to explain why olicity was reset that way ,which is why they kept saying olicity are great friends and partners and they are trusting each other back in sdcc. I think they thought redoing a similar to s2 dynamic with them this season would excite people(they did imply they would write them more like early seasons when people loved them so much) but they forgot that doing that after what happened in s4 and s3 would seem weird and unnatural. They basically kinda ignored their romantic history for the most part or did their best to downplay it hoping viewers wont notice. Maybe that was because they wanted so much to prove this season they were writing away from the romance,trying to lure back certain fans. A large part of their hiatus PR was anti romantic olicity,with them shutting down most olicity related questions or being snarky to olicity fans. I think seeing the feedback and realizing how it came off on screen, they probably decided to "explain" why they were so "cold" to each other. I feel that they think ignoring stuff for many episodes and bringing them up in a filler episode is them presenting a mature dynamic. But they fail to present a build up or to write a development so it comes off OOC or kinda forced. Its as like they go from 0 to 100 and then back to 0 and they dont bother to show what happens in between.

Stephen has his own headcanons lol. He probably just wanted to say that oliver being a hero is more important than olivers romantic relationship. Maybe he was channeling his own opinion or what he would like the show do highlight. I agree,also i think Oliver is gonna be outed as GA.

They also have 0 chemistry imo.

Personally the way Oliver is presented,i think he simply wants to feel normal. Especially with how he acted with Susan this season he seemed like he was desperately trying to be in a relationship and make things work with someone. So desperately to the point of putting down his closest people for a woman he met months ago. Its as if for him ,its not about the person he connects and loves but about being loved by anyone. I would buy that he is simply trying to move on and respect Felicity's decision, if he wasnt the one that screwed up last season with the lies, only to be passive and not try to fix it. It just feels like once she left him he didnt bother to fix what he did and when someone cares enough they try to fix something worth fixing. Him moving on and putting a woman above his closest people made me think he is more bothered with the idea of being loved by a woman and just that. The way they presented it,i could even see him ask her to marry him two months later(which the show obviously never intended to do ) because he fell in love with and trusted her two seconds after he met her. As if he only cares for the idea of being in a healthy relationship and not for being with someone he truly loves. Its forced and badly executed which is why it gives off a certain impression. At least to me. I dont see anything special in the olicity dynamic anymore and im a person that wont go to read a meta in order to understand the show in a way that will feed a certain headcanon that supports what i would want the show eventually to do. I just react to what i watch on screen and I want a build up and an overall story that respects these dynamics and highlights them . This story does the opposite for me.

Wouldnt it be something good if it doesnt last that long? Shows shouldnt be dragged and milked that way. The best example of a show that lasted exactly how it needed is Breaking Bad.

It feels to me that they are basically telling the same story again and again and each time they come up with something different to present it in order to make the story seem different. In season 1 he was afraid he was just a ruthless killer then Dig and Felicity showed to him theres another way and he gained a somehow heroic purpose. In season 3 he couldnt be happy because deep down he thought he was a ruthless killer with him eventually proving to himself that he deserves happiness and embracing the fact that he is not just the Arrow,a ruthless killer vigilante but a person that loves,hopes and makes connections with people(the first three seasons did provide more development for him ,like whether or not he can be romantically involved with someone he really loves despite the danger surrounding him,whether or not he can trust other people etc). In season 4 he couldnt figure out whether or not he had light inside him because he was still deep down a killer(in season 4 i didnt even get the feeling by the season finale that they had an legit plan about his season journey),in season 5 he fears he likes killing because he is a ruthless killer. So,really to me it looks like they always come back to the same question: is he just a killer or a hero? They just try to come up with "game changing" "epic" and "never seen before" issues that they never really explore but only use to basically have oliver fear that he is just a ruthless killer. I dont really see these stories giving a real development to the character especially with how they always find something else to come up each season in order for oliver to think he is just a killer. Its an endless back and forth with the show basically wording differently on script the same story. It just seems to me that if they now indeed try to pull the "he enjoys killing people" storyline in order to once again have him think he is just a ruthless killer , they will open up issues with the character and the show that are beyond their skills, issues that will eventually ruin the character for good. Cause you cant just come out in the 5th season and imply he actually likes killing people as if we are supposed to believe he was suppressing his urge to get his bow and kill every random thief just cause he could,back in s3 and s4. I personally never thought of the character that way. I even thought he hated killing people but he was taught to be violent. So i truly hope Guggie is overselling this to make it look more than it actually is. Also implying oliver likes killing people is different that implying killing is his second nature. The latter one implies he is just very good at it ,because he spent a lot of time being used like this,that doesnt mean he ever really enjoyed it. So personally ,i think the show shouldnt come out on the 5th season and suddenly change the way the story was written from the start,especially since i havent seen the show implying anything like that since the pilot. Its weird.

Demo still holds but we'll see. Seems like this week women didnt bother to tune in so the drop in ratings was due to them not watching.

If they really go with the "oliver enjoys killing people" story they kill the character for good. Not once in the years of watching the show have i felt that Oliver liked killing people. On the contrary based on the story they told since the start but also on SA's performance i think he hated it and did it as a way to punish himself and prove to himself that he is dark and a bad person(that he doesnt deserve happiness). Him being extra harsh and violently killing villains in s1 was perceived by many as him thinking it was the only way to protect the city or the only way to right his fathers wrongs. It was in his mind the only way because in his mind he had to avenge them because based on flahsbacks thats what he was taught to do. Not once did the show imply that he liked it. In s4 oliver didnt struggle at all not killing people. And he was on the best time of his life. In season 3 he had a burden by killing Ras. In s4 Felicity seemed more willing to kill Damian than Oliver,who based on story,felt like he had to kill him. If you want to sell that someone deep down enjoys killing then you gotta actually sell it from early on and not come here 5 years later and go "whatever you saw and believed forget it,oliver is chanelling Dexter". I feel like these writers are trying too hard to prove Arrow is dark ,edgy and ruthless and mature this season. Too much to the point of retconning the lead character's "journey".