NJRadioGuy

One of the things that's bugged me for a long time about this show is how the Intel unit only has one African-American undercover investigator in a city with so much crime from within the various minority communities, and I'm speaking both of the fictional world of "Chicago PD" and the real city itself. You'd think that having a squad of deep U/Cs that blend in with the groups they're trying to infiltrate and investigate would be a logical first step.

Yep, there was. We still only see Hermann and his Probie, Ritter, with speaking lines. And they still never have water in time. I'm pretty sure I read that the background actors on Engine 51 are actual CFD firefighters. That house is the real-world home to CFD Engine 18, so I'm guessing it's some of their off-duty personnel? And speaking of which, regarding Rescue 3. We know Severide is the officer, Capp, and Cruz are firefighter/specialists on the crew but there's a fourth man on the crew that we never really see much of and who almost never has speaking lines. He's the driver, Tony Ferraris, who is the actual operator for real-life Squad 2 on the north side. "Station 51" should never have been an engine-centric house on the show since E51 is never really featured in the plot and they haven't learned how to put the wet stuff on the red stuff 9 times out of 10. The cast is already too big, and having another 4 or 5 team members getting their own stories just wouldn't work. T81, R3, A61, and B25 are the stars.

Couldn't agree more. They shouldn't be in the same house or on the same shift. Her judgement is clearly compromised. Not saying in this case she made the wrong call, but the pattern has been established.

Classic trolley problem situation. Boyfriend or not, a brother's down and in mortal danger vs two civilians in mortal danger. There's only one you with no cavalry able to come in time. You don't know the civilians; you know and respect the colleague, and in this case have a romantic relationship with him, which could still happen if you are stationed in two different houses, or you're a spare board floater and happen to get toned-out to the job by fate. Policy may say you go after the civilians. The trapped colleague would probably insist on it if he knew. But basic instinct and human nature may well countermand that. I just can't snark on Kidd for that decision or question her judgement. If you're Kidd and you go after the civilians only to see them find an exit on their own or they realize they're going the wrong way and can make it out; you go back and find your colleague burned up, could you live with that? Could your fellow FFs? Double that if he was your romantic interest. You know for a fact your colleague will die horribly if you don't act. You do not know with 100% certainty that the civilians will perish. Forget the romantic aspect; if that colleague dies your career is over. Nobody would ever want to work with you again. Nobody would trust their back to you. Not to mention the lifelong nightmares, second-guessing every decision for the rest of your life, years in therapy, PTSD, etc. If the civilians die it's a horrible tragedy, you'll probably still have nightmares and PTSD, but your brothers and sisters on the job will support you and have your back (not to mention your money won't be any good in bars for a very long time). Sure, you'll carry the names and faces of those two civilians in the dark recesses of your mind, but they'll go in there along with the MVA victims your team couldn't get out of the crash, the baby who died in your arms after her mother OD'd and lit up the apartment by accident, the homeless guy that froze to death on Christmas Eve outside the bar where stockbrokers were spending their bonuses on hookers and blow, and the countless others that you couldn't get to in time.

That inappropriateness of candidate vs superior was inexcusable, but it did make for network TV storylines that could be cranked out in no time flat. This one has the potential for drama, sure, but here it's a very real plot problem of what to do with the character after making her promotion a major plot point for a portion of the season. So she earns her bugle...what do you do with an extra officer in a station that's got all the officers it needs. All I can think of is that Hermann is on the way out of the show (or he gets demoted or whatever) and she takes over Engine. Or she becomes a part-timer, and we only see her in cameos when she leads another company against 51 (since only 51 can be good guys), or as Mrs. Severide...which obviously won't happen. If the storyline of "Stella gets a promotion" put her in line for a specialist job (maybe a Hazmat specialist for the station, or something they make up entirely out of whole cloth for the show) then I think it would be workable. But unless a current cast member vacates a position, I can't see where an extra LT fits in. Sometimes they're funny but more often than not, cringeworthy. But look back 45 years to Emergency! and Chet Kelley. He wasn't any better, and that's putting it mildly. I wore out my fast-forward button on those horrible C-plots when I binged through all 7 seasons of that show in 2018.

Except that wouldn't have been a bad case. It would have had problems, but not insurmountable ones. It would have been an easy indictment, I think, and enough to get it before a trial judge. And if you get the "right" one, some or all of the evidence might not be excluded. Now if the prosecutor was under orders to kick it from "on high" due to the optics of the thing that's a different matter. My JD is from the University of The First 48 🙂 (and knowing a bunch of investigators in a past work life). A case like this one would be a slam dunk in real life, in most of the country, but this year's political turmoil might have changed things.

One thing about this being an ensemble show is that pieces are replaceable with cheaper pieces as the show ages. Casey, Severide, and Boden probably aren't going anywhere but the surrounding cast are all pretty much expendable. So I fully expect at least one officer to transfer out now that a main cast member is at officer rank on each piece of apparatus (Engine, Truck, and Squad), plus a B/C. Stella will have nowhere to go as an LT if she stays in the house. I sincerely hope they don't put the LT and the Captain of the truck on the same platoon, which would be ridiculous. IRL after you pass a promotion exam you'll eventually get moved to a new house/company as openings become available (when a Truck lieutenant retires, a new LT from the promotion list—who's qualified on Truck—gets the job). I like Kidd and Severide as a couple, even though they don't sizzle on screen. But there's no way in hell they should be working together in the same house, or on the same shifts. The problem is how to keep them both on the show if nothing else gives. I have never been able to stand Cruz since that incident, which I would consider first degree murder. Yeah, the gang leader needed killing, but not like that. Cruz should have paid for that with his own life in a fire later that season in true dramatic fashion.

The deck gun is the large "nozzle" like device mounted on the bed of the engine. Good for exterior attacks, and that's what was being set up after Severide got out. There are many schools of thought for using it. Some departments will hit the front of the fire building with the gun as they're connecting to the hydrant, others will never or almost never use it. And yes, it's generally not a good idea to use it with known trapped victims (steam burns are nasty), but when you have heavy fire upon arrival you need to get as much water on it as you can (by some schools of thought). Real-world, the first arriving engine lays one or two hand lines and prepare to make entry. Other members of the crew, or crew from the second due engine(s), will take the nearest hydrant to supply water to the first due engine. Engines have an internal 500 gallon tank (typically, some larger) so if orchestrated properly they can be ready with water as Truck goes in to search, and then the engineer will cut over from tank water to the hydrant once it's opened. Unless Truck arrives long before an Engine, no way the truckees are going in without an Engineman on the nozzle and a backup and the line charged with water. Good plan is two 2.5" lines going in or 1.75" for smaller jobs. If a job is too dangerous either by being fully involved upon arrival or perhaps after a flashover or backdraft, roof and walls losing integrity, etc, the incident commander will pull everybody out and go defensive (exterior attack only, to contain it--surround and drown--and protect surrounding exposures). You'll see these on the news and they'll involve numerous tower ladders shooting water into the collapsed roof. 51 is an engine (the machine that pumps water, supplies hoses, and is rarely seen on-screen. Hermann is the officer. 61 is a Truck company (also known in other departments an the aerial, ladder, or hook-and-ladder). Different type of vehicle entirely, equipped with a telescopic extension ladder ("the stick") that goes 8 to 10 stories up. They initiate searches, vent the roof, eject smoke, overhaul and have some rescue duties. Casey is the Captain (there would be other LTs on different platoons). Rescue 3 is a heavy rescue, one of only a small handful for the entire city. They'd do technical rescues, marine rescues, building collapses, etc, in real life, and may or may not be dispatched to simple building fires since their specialized skills probably wouldn't be needed, but could be needed elsewhere. Severide is the officer. Boden is a Battalion Chief and in reality would be responsible coordinating up to a half a dozen other firehouses and be the initial incident command at jobs until a division chief or other BCs arrive.

The Waterless Fire Department strikes again. Why are they always going in without a charged hose line? At least no Slammigan on the breach--conventional tool work, so...yay? All those hot models and none of them swoon for a fireman after getting rescued? C'mon show, you're slipping! If Stella was leadership material she'd ask for a transfer away from her probably-soon-to-be-fiancé. WTF with that MAYDAY. Where's the Accountability (FAST) truck? If it's as small a job as it looked on arrival there'd still be a half dozen pieces of apparatus, going immediate to a second or third alarm once the pyro devices were made known. They should have had enough troops inside to get Severide out in seconds. Where was the rest of Squad for that matter? Why the deck gun, and why so late? 81 should have had a monitor going from the top of the ladder, 61 needed 2 or 3 charged 2-1/2 lines—along with about 6 more engine companies and 3 or 4 more trucks.

So the dirtbag gets kicked because of the bad "fruit of the poisoned tree" search. That's not up to the DA, that's up to a judge to decide. The DA is there to prosecute the offenders (dunh dunhhhhh). But so what. Even if you exclude the evidence prior to the warrant being improperly executed, you have surveillance video of the perp committing the assault and firing the weapon, video surveillance taken of someone matching his precise description with a strong connection to the woman, and a very strong motive. Pull his cellphone records to get GPS coordinates, and if you're lucky you place him at both scenes at the correct times. Any lawyer worth more than $1.50 will make a deal for 15-25 years for manslaughter and the DA will take the conviction in a heartbeat. And if not, present that evidence as a circumstantial case to a jury and hope they feel for the fact it was an innocent child that died. Since the shooting occurred during the commission of an armed robbery they could probably go for first degree murder and ask for LWOP, along with lesser-included.

I was afraid that would happen.

Is there any news about episode counts for the One Chicago franchise this season? Or about scheduling through the holidays, since it will be premiering mid-November, at about the time series usually go into their hiatus.

I'm sure they'd hire employees to manage and run it when they're on duty, but why bother with hiring/showing these (expensive) characters if they're not integral to the plot?

IIRC from St. Paul, where they were docking to offload, there was a scheduled flight that day and he'd have to hurry up and wait to get on it. I doubt what he had going on could have been treated at the clinic (perhaps they diagnosed him over the radio). Or else the Disco Editing Magicians were at it again, and that aircraft was sent specifically to medevac Keith, to meet the boat when it docked to offload. Yeah, no sympathy for Junior from me either. He's as big a douche as just about all the others. Much as I have a soft spot for Jake Anderson and how he's grown up on the show, the fact is he's just awful at finding crab (or so we're led to believe). The Colbornes, Sig, and the Hillstrands all know/knew where to go if they started pulling blanks. Sig's always dialed in on the crab. But Jake radio fishes, and begs for table scraps seemingly every time the camera's on him. Even Josh The Camera Whore seems to have better fishing instincts on occasion (not to mention access to Phil The Saint's old log books). Wild Bill is another one who seems to have complete shit luck landing on the bite.

This week's Special Friend (Darrell Watts, from Point of No Return) may have dug his own grave by (a) taking the victim's gun, and (b) giving a statement the second time--especially after he was in custody. He might have a better chance on a self defense claim at trial if the vic still had the 9mm weapon on his body and he could produce the .38 that he allegedly used to shoot him with. I don't recall if they said whether or not the M.E. conclusively determined the murder weapon was a 9 (if so, how did Watts get it from him to shoot him with it) or a .38. And if it was a .38, did they recover the spent projectiles from either body or inside the car? And if he did shoot him with a .38, why were there 9mm casings in the car. There's a lot that isn't adding up to me; either the production editors messed up or something's amiss. Unlike many other suspects we've seen on the show (and undoubtedly many more that we haven't), Watts can communicate well and comes off as quite intelligent. Other than the fact that the show identified him at first (BIG clue that that's the bad guy in the case), I saw him as a good witness. An excellent defense attorney may have been able to impugn the girlfriend's testimony or get it suppressed under hearsay laws, which might be enough to get the case kicked or secure an acquittal. But the fact he confessed voluntarily (even if the facts don't seem to add up) was a profoundly dumb move on his part.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I guess I figured that at least one member of the detective branch would be firearms qualified in case things went wrong when they went to investigate; especially if they were going to a location where backup response times could be measured in hours. That's interesting. I can only think what would happen if a copper failed to maintain his vehicle properly and the brakes went out causing a civilian death as a result. Ditto here. Investigators will be assigned their own unmarked departmental units to take home (sometimes only if they're on call), or if they've driving their personal car to the office, they'll roll out in a pool vehicle to a scene, etc. But the ones I knew were assigned a department unit for personal use, and had to have it serviced in the departments' motor pool. These had lights, siren, and mobile radios installed. Often these radios were secured (encrypted) and custody of the vehicle was critical. I would think it many rural communities that door locks probably haven't worked in decades, and keys are left in car ignitions. That still should not have given them the right to go inside, lock or no lock. I'm not sure about British law, but within the U.S. anything that came about from that kind of thing (entering or searching a premises without a warrant signed by a judge) would be inadmissible under the "fruit of the poisoned tree" doctrine. Of course, anything that can be seen in plain sight through a window or a physically open doorway would be fine. Indeed, similar to here. But the whole "if he/she is available" thing is odd. As for the last part, I wonder what sort of criminal defense solicitor would ever allow his or her client to talk to the police, with or without him/her there. You can bet anybody with the I.Q. of a small soap dish or greater would basically tell investigators to pound sand. Yet in virtually every British or European detective series you always see the interviewee being interrogated and his/her solicitor just sitting there and taking notes, silently, and without stopping the client or advising him that answering isn't in his best interest, etc. After being cautioned there is absolutely NO benefit to giving any kind of statement to investigators except on the advice of counsel. Ever. Period. End Of Sentence—and likely the beginning of one if this is ignored. I just wasn't sure if this was actually allowed under UK or EU law since as I said, this is done in every TV detective series I think I've ever seen. As an aside, one of my retired investigator friends turned me on to The First 48 on A&E. If that's available where you are, and you're interested in real homicide investigations, you should check it out. About a third to half the suspects they get are morons who agree to answer questions (i.e. refuse legal counsel) so they can "clear their name." That rarely ends well for them. The rest stop the interrogation by asking for an attorney and that's that. But in all but a very, very few cases, the detectives have enough evidence for an arrest warrant anyways, so even if they don't say a word they're still getting charged and going to lockup. My buddy was saying in about 25+ years on the job he only had a handful of suspects come back with their lawyers and make statements, and usually they ended up being accomplices who the prosecution agreed to drop charges against if they'd testify in full as to what happened.

More likely this was a tactic to elicit her testimony at trial. Cooperate with us and give us everything or we'll hang murder one on you. A scared kid will search for any lifeline they can find, especially if they know they didn't participate in the crime.

That's what made it much better than S1 in my opinion. I reviewed S1 about a dozen or so posts above and so many of my criticisms were addressed in S2. I want to care about the characters I'm watching. I want to see them grow and become three dimensional. Sandy's path was easy to see coming. She drinks the kool-aid from day one and is extremely malleable. Jules, you could tell from early on, that she was going to be a stone cold killer. Clara was just wonderful and her actor played her wonderfully. And then of course there's Arya Hanna. This season she became everything I'd hoped for. I honestly don't care about the main plot, holey as it is in many places. The whole concept of Utrax should just have been allowed to leak to the press and move on to other Big Bads in future seasons. This season was a joy for me to watch, and for as much as I hate-watched the last 3 or 4 episodes last year, I loved this season immensely. So glad they get a 3rd kick at the can, although we probably won't see it until 2022.

In the last few weeks I've DVR'd and rewatched some of the older episodes that they run during the day on Thursday. I'll occasionally go online and see if they appealed their conviction, or maybe to learn more about the various stories. In about a third or more of the bigger cases that have gone to verdict there are transcripts of appeals courts' decisions. I don't think a single one of them ever had their appeals granted and their convictions vacated or sentences reduced. In some cases there's much more going on that never makes it on screen, while in many others what your see on TV is essentially everything. And speaking of appeals court rulings, this is an interesting ruling regarding The First 48 that came down recently. Someone who was blurred out onscreen when he gave information in the interview room ended up getting shot for his troubles. He survived and sued the production company. He lost at trial and on appeal. This is interesting reading: First Amendment Protects True-Crime Show From Negligence Liability

I just wish Hallmark didn't assume their audiences are completely brain dead. There's a distinction between a sweet family-friendly story and something so insipidly syrupy as to cause diabetes after a single serving. It's OK to put your characters in a little bit of genuine risk once in a while or tackle a real-world issue on occasion.

I'm coming in very late to this thread but I have a question, and it will be incredibly spoilery for those who haven't finished it yet. I loved this show, and watched one 90-minute episode every night. The cinematography and music were just perfect, and the sound mixer deserves a BAFTA award for how to properly use the 5.1 Dolby Digital format. Just beautiful. Count me as a big fan of brooding, sullen detectives in mystery series and Tom plays the role with aplomb. As others have said earlier in this thread, I wish they'd have given some extra dimension to DS Owens and Lloyd. They're both young, attractive and no-doubt have interesting personal lives that would build the overall story. Also as others have chimed in, regarding product placement, it was a bit annoying. Both leads were almost always dressed in exactly the same outfits. His jacket was Canada Goose, but hers wasn't, I don't think. I forget what the patch said but I'm pretty sure it wasn't CG. Regardless, don't they have other clothes? She had two different red jackets (one with the fur-lined hood, one without). The Land Rover (or was it a Range Rover?) didn't bother me at all either. We bought a used two year old 4x4 luxury SUV for about 40% off the new sticker price, and if you buy 3 or 4 years it's about half the price. But the bigger question is why would they be driving their personal vehicles to crime scenes? What if they get involved in a traffic accident--who's responsible? There would be huge liability risks if it was the officers' own cars. My guess is they're police agency vehicles that they're assigned as part of the job. Now I've never lived in the U.K. or Europe, but am I correct in assuming that even today, British homicide detectives are all unarmed? One would think that chasing people who've actually committed murder in the past would involve a level of risk that a regular plainclothes detective might not face. Seems surprising that at least one member of the squad didn't carry a firearm. And you'd think that in training for the job, they'd teach their officers how to disarm a suspect if he's within arm's length (it's surprisingly easy once you learn how--albeit with incredible risk) Also, and this seems to apply to most EU/UK mystery shows, don't the pleece over there need signed warrants to enter premises? Certainly on this side of the Atlantic that would invalidate the entire case if the lead investigator entered the premises. And on the same note, you have a potential suspect in the interrogation room. His solicitor is sitting beside him, yet the suspect is being grilled like a cheese sandwich by the detectives. Do suspects in the U.K. not have the right to refuse to answer questions? In the U.S., in real life, if they get you in the box, all you have to say is "I want a lawyer" and that's it. They can't ask you anything further. And no attorney worth his retainer would ever allow a suspect to answer a single question (unless the person is more witness than suspect and they guarantee no charges in exchange for testimony against the primary actor(s)). Of course, in real life, if they've got you in the interrogation room they've already got enough to charge you most times; they're just looking for you to incriminate yourself as icing on the cake. Either way, you're getting locked up once the interview's over 🙂

I binged through seasons 2 and 3 over the course of a week, and I'm just completely done with this series. After the last 5 minutes of the S2 finale the whole thing came unravelled for me and I stopped caring about her completely in the final two episodes of S3. I'm fine with the high body counts but does everything always need to be so edgy and dark today? Can't you just give us a great but flawed detective with an interesting personal life, and some good crimes to solve? The McGuires' story itself was excellent, and if this was a stand-alone show without being a Marcella story I'd have liked it a lot more. It made me miss the crazy world of the Sopranos, a show shot in my neighborhood (Tony's house was 1.3 miles from my front door). The intertwining of her mental collapse(s) and the family was compelling through the meat of the series, but it all went pear shaped at the end. Also not unlike The Sopranos, sadly. Can you just imagine the 999 call she made? After she says "Hello, this is D.I. Marcella Backland," she's lucky the call taker didn't reply "What? You're crazy. Impersonating a dead copper. I ought to have them send a padded wagon for you. You're a loony. Stop wasting our time." Click. Why...WHY does every European cop show have armed people (good guys and baddies alike) racking the slide their pistols all the time? It wastes time and leaves you without one in the pipe in an emergency. Load, rack, safety on (optional), holster. And racking the slide clears out a round if one IS in the chamber, so you're wasting a cartridge, damnit. The Scandi-Noirs are egregiously guilty of this too. You expect the audience to believe that there's no video surveillance of an interrogation room in a modern police station? That said, Roz was a surprise twist. An unpleasant one, but a twist nevertheless. I loved that Kiera took the surname of a famous fictional D.I. (her same rank). A nice nod by the writers? Now if only someone would make those into a TV series.

I knew that Nora somehow looked familiar but the penny didn't drop until I read your comment. Yes, that's a great show and I strongly recommend it.

Yes, the latest seasons have had a lot of hot garbage and I couldn't agree more with the insipid plots where FFs are performing LEO acts constantly. I'll give 'em kudos when warranted, but yeah, the writers and showrunners think the only way network procedurals can work today is to be of the police or medical variety. I like PD. I hate Med. But Fire doesn't fit either one neatly and I'm not sure TPTB know what to do with it. It's the red headed stepchild of the Dick Wolf universe now. And that's a body blow because there's just so much good material for the show to draw on based on real life rescues and fires, and still leave room for those ridiculous firehouse B- and C-stories. And to circle back to Emergency! for a minute, their B- and C-plots were unwatchably bad. But the rescues were SO well done, and there were more of them. I'd watch Chicago OFI in a heartbeat., but I think it would have very limited appeal. Severide and PixieCut (sorry, I forget her name) do play well onscreen so that could maybe work. Air it when CF is on hiatus, maybe?