Cristofle

Part of me thinks the most likely explanation is that another alien entirely killed Rosa - the books have plenty of options (Nikolas, Adam, the museum owner). Also, in the books, the conspiracy theorist - who I believe is Grant Green here, but had another name in the books - turned out to be the most evil alien. I could definitely also see it being Jesse Manes, though. Or him being involved, at least.

A big part of me doubts that any of the main three is responsible for any of their deaths in any real way when all is said and done, but I am back to wondering if Max tried to resurrect Rosa. And I do think Michael's hand may have gotten scarred that night. Isobel once said Max and Michael have been estranged for ten years, so it seems likely it's all centered around the same thing. Isobel is growing on me too. I'm actually glad she seems to have mindwarped Liz to protect Michael over something about Rosa's death, rather than just driving Liz away because she didn't like how deeply Max felt for her. That said, I imagine Max is going to be really pissed off when he finds out she's already warped Liz and possibly interfered with her feelings for him in the process.

I admittedly don't think or talk much about high school, despite having met two of my still-closest friends in high school. But I can see how Rosa's death may have frozen some of these people in that period, especially Liz (and Michael, Max, and Isobel to varying degrees depending on what happened the night Rosa died). Losing Rosa in the way that she did definitely appears to have emotionally stunted Liz (still concerned she took any part of that pep talk Rosa gave her as something to follow, heh). I can see the Lilly Kane comparisons now that they're mentioned, but part of my issue connecting to it that way, beyond the Rosa actress not exactly being the wonderful Amanda Seyfried, is that Lilly arguably loved Veronica better than most other people in her life, while Liz and Rosa's relationship appears to have been super unhealthy. Also, on a shallow note, I did think of the scene where Lilly told Veronica she should be wearing red satin with the first Liz/Rosa flashback, but while Lilly was right that Veronica looked better in strapless red satin than the pink dress she had picked out, I actually thought Liz's first dress was cuter than the one Rosa offered, heh.

Man, I've got to read these books again. LOL. I feel like I remember the first three or four pretty well, and then after that it's mostly gone. Except I remember that Adam was super creepy at first, and Max was alarmed at him enjoying torturing some sort of animal, and then they kind of seemed to act like that wasn't a thing. I remember in the books that Max and Michael scoured the desert together for any remnants of the crash. Presumably, this show has at least Michael doing it, from the looks of his trailer in the pilot. It's possible it's something Max and Michael did together before whatever happened to damage their relationship.

Yep, I said that above. Telling Kyle about Max IS basically telling him about Isobel and Michael, given that they were three kids wandering naked and alone in the desert. Randomly, that reminds me that this show is different from both the OG show and the books in a key way: we don't really know if Max and Isobel ARE siblings. Their pods are individual. In the books, Max and Isabel shared a pod, and IIRC, it was at least connected in the show (and of course, they immediately were told that they had been siblings in their previous life). Yes, I want to know what happened to Rosa (although Rosa herself is kind of unlikable at this point in flashbacks) but I need them to move beyond the part where each week it's suspected another of the alien trio killed Rosa. We all know that didn't happen, so let's move past that.

Ohhhhh! What was up with Cameron in the books? I have completely forgotten that plot.

It's actually not based on the original show - they don't have rights to it. It's based on the book series the first show was based on. So they can't use Courtney - I don't think she was in the books, nor was the entire race of "Skins". In the books, Michael got involved with some other girl from the compound? For the life of me, I cannot remember her name, but I don't think it was Courtney.

The jumping to conclusions is an issue with Liz, and I'm not sure it's a flaw the writers quite know is there. The late Sheriff Valenti could have had literally any one of dozens of interactions with Rosa that didn't mean "affair" just because Maria thought she might have a boyfriend. And poor Kyle played into that real fast, lol. I was starting to think Kyle and Max might be better off figuring things out without Liz. I tried to write it off with the whole Max thing, given that obviously the existence of aliens is new to her and she hasn't thought it through (that it could have easily been Michael or Isobel, that just because Max didn't mention other aliens doesn't mean they don't exist, especially because presumably they didn't waddle those pods into that cave by themselves). But the thing with Kyle's father was pretty wild. And that would be fine if I felt someone was there to ground her and be like "I know you're emotional and you're desperate to believe Rosa didn't kill herself and two girls, but simmer down a bit." I really do like Liz. I had such a hard time connecting to OG Liz on the first show, and this one seems more layered and lively. But she does need to stop jumping to conclusions, or someone other than Kyle needs to join this investigation who is better at pulling her back from the edge.

You make an interesting point. On the OG show and in the books, the secret anti-alien group appeared to be well funded. Jesse is like, all by himself hanging around being creepy and blackmailing people into helping him. I do think M/L have chemistry (though not of the amazing Behr/Appleby variety) but yes, the emotional talk right after he was talking about orgasms with Cam and she had sex with Kyle is a bit of a letdown, lol. That said, they are adults and OG M/L were teenagers.

Overall good episode, definitely learned some things. So Michael at least feels like he killed those girls. I doubt he actually did - I still think another alien was involved - but it explains why Isobel and Max have reacted the way they have. Michael's "thank you" to Max was maybe the first time I felt a real bond between them. Still, these three clearly keep secrets from each other as well as the rest of the world, given that Max has no idea Isobel has gotten into Liz's mind before. Michael said they agreed "never to talk about that night". I wonder how much they individually know. I'm interested as to why Isobel seems so confused about why Rosa didn't like her/had some issue with her. In the flashes in Liz's mind, Rosa asked "Why are you doing this? I thought we were friends." So I assumed whatever happened, happened face to face, but maybe not. I wasn't that moved by Kyle and Liz's "So you think my dad might have been banging your sister? Let's jump into bed" moment, but I overall liked Kyle in this episode. I think he has seen another side of Max, and I doubt he'll give up his secret that easily. Still, I don't really think it matters if Liz hasn't actually told Kyle about Michael and Isobel and I'm not sure why Max even bothered to ask. If Max is an alien, likely the other two children found wandering naked in the desert with him are as well. I don't blame Liz for telling Kyle, but I also don't blame Max for being upset that she did, and I'm glad this show didn't skip over that step because often, the OG show did. Poor Cam, lol. First Max blew her off, now she's being used by Jesse Manes. Did Liz say she moved 14 times or to 14 cities? I thought I heard the latter, but that seems super unlikely with college/grad school. I wonder how she even found the time to get engaged, lol. It makes me uncomfortable to say this, but man, Rosa was NOT good for Liz. What a super weird, creepy, emotionally unhealthy "pep talk".

I still get a lot of OG show vibes though, given that they're not really supposed to be drawing from that. -In the books, I have nooooo recollection of Isabel being service oriented. She was going around in the dreams of all the high school boys to try to convince them to vote for her for prom queen. That's something I only remember from the show, her being involved in community service. -Michael being this hostile loner is more of an OG show thing, I feel like. He was a foster kid in the books too, but IIRC, he came off as fairly friendly and jokey. -Liz and Kyle had one or two dates prior to the books that ended very badly (I do kind of remember that, because I LOLed - something about how he played Nintendo the whole time and wouldn't even give her a turn) and by the time the first book opened, she did not like him at all. It was in the show that they had some sort of relationship in high school.

When I was watching the latter part of the pilot to verify Michael's dialogue re: mindwarping Liz, I noticed something I thought this show did well - showing WHY Little Liz appealed to Little Max so much. In the OG show, he was just immediately entranced by her, but in this show, it seems she actually went out of her way to befriend him (sharing her music with him, making silly faces at him to get him to lighten up). For someone as painfully shy as Max has always been written to be, it would definitely make sense, why that would draw him to her.

I think it's not that it's an "Earthling", it's that it's Liz, and something happened between Isobel and Rosa that Isobel doesn't want to get out. I'm less sure why Max is just letting her antagonism towards Liz fly for the most part (other than him finally snapping back at her in the early part of the episode, which he apologized for later anyway). But that does seem kind of in character for the Max of the books, because I do remember that she threatened to kill Maria and Max rightfully blew up at her, and then she started crying and he just apologized. What? LOL. No, she was still way in the wrong, dude.

LMAO, I could never take that plot seriously. Even then, and I think I was a freshman in college or something when it aired. Like those two goody two-shoes would EVER act like they were robbing a gas station. I'm trying to remember the other aliens beyond the Big Three in the books. There was the guy who owned the alien museum, the guy who ran the...TV station or newspaper or something, who turned out to be a major villain, Nikolas, and Adam. Was that it? For a hot second when Liz and Maria were talking about Rosa having a new boyfriend, I wondered if the secret boyfriend was Nikolas. But now I'm wondering she was involved with Isobel. Also, thank God they literally cannot involve Tess. Beyond the fact that Emilie de Ravin only learned how to act after Roswell, and her lack of chemistry with Jason Behr that was so severe it was almost a marvel, there were just so many creepy undertones to Tess that like...no one ever wanted to acknowledge. Like the fact that she mindraped Max in later S1 and then he was treated as unreasonable for not going all in on her being his soulmate for close to a year after that.

It's definitely possible, because that dialogue does seem a little out of proportion with what he's so far said happened (that he knew she was drunk and high, and fled instead of doing something to prevent her from driving). I feel like I don't know this Max well enough yet to know how close he is to the Max of the series and especially the books, I felt, where he felt such an overinflated sense of duty to everyone that he therefore blamed himself way out of proportion whenever anything went wrong. If this Max has in any way a normal grasp on cause and effect, then yes, saying "Liz can never know what happened to Rosa" seems too much for just not warning anyone that she was high that night. I THOUGHT he seemed pretty shocked by the notion that an alien killed her, but it's possible it was fear. I originally thought the handprint might have been an attempt on Max's part to save her (IIRC, in the first book, the body that Valenti showed Liz WAS someone that Max tried and failed to save. It was in the show that the handprint was someone Nasedo killed), but I sort of think Max would have told her that. So Option B is that Michael or Isobel attempted to save her and Max either doesn't know or doesn't want to share anything about them to Liz at this point, and Option C is that another alien entirely killed Rosa.

I thought Rosa’s reaction to Max was strangely negative too, if in her mind, all Max was was a shy boy with a massive crush on her sister who spent years building up the courage to write her one goofy love letter.

I actually do think she has considered it - she asked Max if Isobel and Michael are capable of making the handprint. But he's not answering her about it (understandably - he didn't know why she was asking and he was trying to protect their privacy to some extent) and he told her they all have "specialties" and different powers, so right now, Max is the only one she KNOWS is capable of creating the handprint. Given how seriously creepy Michael and Isobel were that night, I agree that she should probably give some more credence to at least the possibility it wasn't Max, lol, but I can sort of see, between his lying about not seeing Rosa the night she died and knowing Max can create the handprint but not being sure that Michael and Isobel can, how he jumped to the top of her suspect list. That said, I sort of rolled my eyes when she was doing her internal monologue and said how Max can use his ability to heal and therefore to harm. It's sort of like saying "Well, this doctor can hold a scalpel to save someone's life, so he must have also stabbed this other random person in the neck!" Max doesn't really give off any indication of getting off on harming women, so it seems like more than a bit of a jump. I actually do like Liz Ortecho more than I originally liked Liz Parker, though. She seems to have more of a personality, lol. And I do feel some sort of repressed longing on her end for Max, just not as ardent as his is for her because she hasn't spent the last decade secretly in love with him (that she knows of - I'm still sort of on the train that she has more feelings for Max than she understands and Isobel may have tried to wipe them out of her. I was interested when she kept saying she just couldn't connect to her former fiance).

I think it is possible that for Max, this is the truth as he knows it. He clearly feels deeply guilty for running away instead of helping Rosa, or getting someone to stop her from driving. That was the memory that Max seemed to react to so negatively when he pushed Liz away in the last episode. And he probably told Isabel - or at least he thinks he did. However, Isabel clearly knows more about Rosa than she's saying, and I think Michael possibly does too. I think Max may know something deep down, but I'm not sure he remembers. I think Isabel definitely mindwarped Liz - Michael pretty clearly indicated as much in the pilot. And I can't IMAGINE Max knows that. Also, Isabel said it was "her fault" Max has been so unhappy (without Liz, presumably) for the past decade. But obviously, something happened to Rosa too (and I think Michael knows, at the very least - he didn't seem surprised Isabel was having flashes of Rosa). Oddly though, I sort of hope Isabel mindwarped Liz because of something that happened with Rosa and not just because she wants to keep Max all to herself, because if it's all about making sure she's #1 in Max's life, that's super creepy.

I was a little surprised too - I briefly thought they might both have it, but if it's on Michael anywhere, I didn't see it and we got a full shot of his chest and back during his love scene with Alex. I wonder if Max even consciously knows what it is? It doesn't seem they have yet gotten any help from anyone on where they come from. In the books, they all had memories of their home planet though. I vaguely recall something about clouds that weren't from earth.

Y'all had me thinking I imagined it, but here's the tattoo on Max's back:

I'm sort of on this train troo. I feel like something happened between these two in the past that they don't remember enough to understand. That's very creepy on Isabel's part unless they come up with an amazingly awesome reason, though. Oh man, I can't imagine the mortification of someone bringing back the notes I wrote in high school. When I think about it, I not only hope those long-ago boys forgot about the melodramatic communications - I hope they forgot I existed. Which is not rational, since I'm Facebook friends with most of them, but that's how embarrassing it is.

I feel like OG Michael/Maria was lightning in a bottle with Fehr and Majandra, and they were a lot of what sold it. I'm totally okay with them sticking with Michael and Alex here (although I agree with what's been said elsewhere that I feel it more from Michael than Alex so far).

I am a librarian, so really, I have been asked to play all these roles at various points. I do feel bad for Max's partner. I mean, anyone who gets between Max and Liz in any Roswell iteration is roadkill, but he is not treating that woman well, lol. In true soap opera fashion, watch her be evil. I wonder if he's going to start doing that weird thing where he talks to the imaginary people in the corner? Such a strange tick. I don't think I could handle him as a good guy and I don't see him becoming Dad-ified like Valenti did on OG Roswell, but I can handle him as a super creepy villain.

It was his girlfriend/fiancee, right? I'm somewhat embarrassed I remember that. LOL. Man, I loved this show so much as a teenager. Jason Behr was plastered all over my binders in high school. I'm wondering if they'll make Book!Nikolas a thing? I don't remember the books nearly as well as show, but IIRC, he was super wild and dangerous before he was killed by Valenti. I think. I need to find the books and give them a re-read.

That symbol is also tattooed on Max's back, right? While in general Max's melodramatic reaction to Liz is somewhat more concerning from a 28 year old than it was from a 16 year old, I feel like I can't really fault him for being so devastated and having such a visceral reaction to Liz's accusation. I'm not blaming Liz from her POV, but obviously Max did not kill Rosa because this is Roswell and it's Max, so from his POV, this is about a thousand times worse than his worst nightmare of how a human would react to his secret. Also it's the human he appears to care most about AND he let her experiment on him. And now it's hitting him that she did it while thinking he's an alien monster murderer. Max didn't react nearly so poorly when she claimed she wasn't that into him - he had the fairly average reaction of being hurt and hooking up with someone else on the fly. I don't think he's so unhinged because she doesn't love him - it's more that her thinking he's an actual murderer must truly be worse than his worst nightmare coming to life, and from his frantic calls to not only Isabel but Michael, he must be fully aware of how much danger he's put everyone in if she believes he's a murderer. I'm warming up to Michael as of this episode, but I'm having a hard time with how divided Max and Isabel and Michael seem to be, especially Max and Michael. I need more background on that divide. As an old school OLTL fan who very much never warmed up to Trevor St. John's Todd/Frodd, I am very much believing him as an evil, creepy supervillain who is also apparently deeply racist, heh. I feel like he's stepping into the role that the books gave Sheriff Valenti (who was nowhere near as layered and warm as he became on the show IIRC - I haven't read the books in probably 15 years or more).