Cristofle

That's the most common age I've seen, but I've also seen 20 (no way, lol) and 29. I think the actor is fairly private, hence some facts being unclear.

I don't think so. I don't think the intention of Daemon is to be a 100% villain - the writers and the actor have consistently said that he does love his family, just not necessarily in a healthy way that allows for good relationships, lol. I don't think this spec has any basis in the show thus far.

That's a consistent aspect to Daemon. He doesn't seem to give a damn about anything "mystical" - he (correctly) dismissed outright the notion that Harwin and Lyonel were killed by a curse, as opposed to murdered by a real live person. And here, he doesn't care about prophecies. He cares about what is actually happening in the moment. I respect that, actually. I don't respect his reaction to Rhaenyra, but I could respect him saying "Fuck prophecies, if we don't act now, Otto will kill all of us, including the kids."

While I don't think Daemon would have consented to remain nonviolent (although now I'm guessing he won't have to - I think the death of Luke has completely changed the game where Rhaenyra is concerned and I doubt she'll still be arguing restraint at the beginning of next season), I honestly haven't gotten the impression he's trying to take the throne from Rhaenyra or Jace. That just hasn't really shown in his actions. He wasn't angry because he felt so entitled to the throne now - he was angry because he realized his brother had never trusted him and never would have left him the heir no matter what he did or didn't do. Daemon loved Viserys in his own weird, Daemon-like way, so this felt like a more personal betrayal to him and he snapped. Which is not GOOD, lol, as I've said before - Daemon is not a heroic figure. But he is somewhat complicated, and for the time being I think he intends to help Rhaenyra take the throne, not take it for himself. I just think he believes that violence is the only way that it should be done, and he likely had no intention of relying primarily on diplomacy.

I think the idea is that they were basically being bred and born smaller. I mean, who knows exactly, they're dragons, lol, but that was the gist of it, that it didn't really matter where they went once hatched - they were just getting smaller, based on the general treatment of them and attempt to contain and control them. There are a lot of fan theories - maybe the maesters were doing something to them, maybe the dragons require a certain kind of special blood to get bigger, etc. But they were definitely getting smaller and smaller. Arrax was very small compared to Syrax when Rhaenyra was Luke's age.

Yep. As Dany said in the OG show, the dragonpit was the beginning of the end, because the dragons kept getting smaller. Syrax is smaller than Caraxes, Arrax is smaller than Syrax.

Well, it is degrees, and Aemond is now significantly worse off in terms of degrees. No one would be an amazing ruler, but Rhaenyra spent most of the episode tamping down her shock and her grief and her rage to try and hold the realm together while Aemond, as it was mentioned above, could not restrain himself long enough to just wait for anything but this absolutely terrible opportunity. Despite the fact that he was written in the previous episode to be studious and observant and more "together" than Aegon. He feels he's more worthy of the throne than Aegon. But his carelessness and inability to see that this was not the time to settle an old score with Luke highlights that he's arguably more catastrophically careless than his brother is. I don't think Rhaenyra would necessarily be a good ruler, to be clear. She's spent too many episodes seeming unable to prepare herself to rule. Even her response to Viserys' death showed how ill-prepared she was - it's devastating to lose your last parent, particularly given that she and Viserys genuinely loved each other, but he was clearly extremely close to death the last time she saw him and the Greens have been preparing to steal the throne from under her for years - this shouldn't have been THAT much of a shock. Daemon was pissed off and irrational about Viserys' death, but clearly had thought through what he would do if the Greens pulled a stunt like this. That Rhaenyra apparently did not is...yikes. But again, it's degrees. This will likely change with the death of her son, but she's currently looking several degrees less awful than either of her half-brothers. Right now, the options for the Greens in terms of who sits the throne are several degrees worse than the options for the Blacks, in terms of who wouldn't gut the realm for their own satisfaction.

I think the Starks are far more likely than not to side with the Blacks. They take their oaths more seriously than any other great house, and they swore fealty to Rhaenyra. Who knows about the Tullys in this realm, though. I honestly hope we're done with the last shredded remnants of Alicent and Rhaenyra's lost bond or whatever. I get it, they were not only BFFs but may have even had feelings for each other. But that bond has been utterly destroyed. As fantastic as Emma was throughout this episode, I still found myself rolling my eyes during the book page scene despite their wonderful performance in it. Just...let it go. And perhaps Luke's death will be the end of it - I hope so. The more crimes two factions commit against each other, the less impressive their childhood bond is.

Aemond can want whatever he wants. Acting on it in the manner he did means he might actually be dumber and less fit for the throne than his serial rapist brother. He put personal vengeance over the entire realm, and he was also apparently too stupid to realize he does not have full control over Vhagar.

I mean...if the argument is that Luke underestimated what an unhinged psychopath Aemond apparently is...I guess. But it's an actual war crime to harm Luke as an envoy. Aemond has committed a war crime. They did not happen upon each other in a neutral place. No one will ever believe it's an accident, to the point where I still doubt he'll even try to pass it off as one. Luke was sent there as an envoy by his mother who is also his queen. Maybe Luke should have guessed that Aemond is the same spiteful, malicious, short-sighted brat he's been all his life, but he wasn't there for some unimportant reason.

That is a much, much, much bigger stretch. Way too much of a stretch. One of them - only one of them - was the instigator in this fight. Luke not only didn't instigate anything, but he made every effort to extract himself without bloodshed. There was a solid chance Aemond choosing to fight and taunt four kids at once would not end well for him, that they would manage to overpower him, particularly when he continued to behave in the exact manner after Jace revealed he had a knife. How on EARTH was Luke supposed to know that Aemond was even at Storm's End, let alone that he'd defy House Baratheon and every custom of their culture based on that years-ago fight? If Luke had sought out Aemond in any way, you might have some point, but he didn't. Aemond also cannot blame PTSD for this crime. He was in control of himself - he just wasn't in control of his dragon, and too stupid and arrogant to realize it.

Agreed. Personally, it's not that Luke is Aemon's nephew that makes Aemond so bad in this scenario - it's that he was terrorizing a much younger boy who had no ability to fight back based on a years-old grudge. It was almost more irritating for Aemond to go "WAIT NOT THAT VHAGAR" at the very end, when he'd all but guaranteed Luke's death up to that moment. And killing Rhaenyra's young son guarantees war. He put his obsession about the loss of his eye over the good of not just his family, but the entire realm. All for a stupid, petty, bullying game. And I think that will also factor into how others will see him. Everyone knows who Vhagar is. In terms of the show...hard to say. Borris did make it clear that Luke was not to be harmed as an envoy, so that part was obvious, but writers of the shows tend to go back and forth on kinslaying depending on how lazy the writers are feeling on any given day. Personally, I think it probably will come into play here, because it ups the drama and the damage that Aemond has done in jumpstarting this war. For me, it's probably the least of the issues with Luke's death, but this is a conflict where all the great houses must choose, and I think this will be a factor for some of them, why the Greens can't be trusted. Others will probably justify it away.

Rhaenys had the more important task of patrolling with Meleys, though. Luke definitely wasn't up to that. And Winterfell is a long ride, plus Jace was also going to see Jeyne Erryn. So I think in her mind, Rhaenyra sent her son on the safest mission of the ones available, the one close by. The Baratheons were not going to harm him under a peace banner. I think that kind of highlights how out of scope Aemond was, along with the Baratheons telling him to knock it off. This would not have been a dangerous task if Aemond hadn't gone so far out of bounds.

LMAO, this is one of my new favorites.

I'm really hoping we get to see a lot more of Lord Cregan Stark, since he was mentioned by name in the episode. I need a Stark in this show right now, lol.

I think they showed Mysaria getting screwed by the Greens for a reason. Daemon may intend for Aemond to die, or he may intend for even Helaena to die (taking Alicent's younger, sweeter child as Rhaenyra's younger and sweeter child was taken), but I doubt he and Rhaenyra give super specific instructions for how Blood and Cheese go down. Even Mysaria may not be that explicit - I think there was always the thought that the task was given to two particularly twisted and sadistic people who decided to really just run with it.

I also don't think the Baratheons have any intention of taking the fall for Luke's death. This probably won't make them change allegiances, but it's not a good look for a young prince under a peace banner to die at their hands. I think they already will not have hesitated to throw Aemond straight under the bus.

I think Otto is going to be furious. Alicent probably initially will be as well, but she might later attempt to cover for him. Aegon probably won't care. But Otto? Otto is more like Tywin. Tywin didn't care that Ned Stark was dead, but he knew it was a fatal error in political judgment that Joffrey killed him when he did. Killing Luke now is a similar move. Sure, Otto wants to kill Rhaenyra and the children, but not like this. Not killing Luke FIRST. Luke is not a huge target, not a big threat. Killing him first will only enrage Rhaenyra and compel her to let HER most threatening player, Daemon, off his leash. It's also going to look bad. Kinslaying automatically makes a person deeply untrustworthy. Like, this is not the way to get the Starks or the Tullys on their side. If Aemond had started and ended his little tiff in the castle, whatever. He didn't come off great to the Baratheons, but it wasn't any kind of game changer. However, Aemond decided to play a profoundly dangerous game that anyone could have foreseen was likely to end in Luke's death. He behaved like a spoiled child, not a grown man who is more worthy of the throne than Aegon. I mean, a lot of people are more worthy than Aegon, lol, but looking at this from the perspective of the realm, Aemond chose a petty childhood vendetta over the good of his family. He acted without much of a thought to the consequences of said actions. This is not the behavior of a real player in the game of thrones - it's the behavior of a malicious child.

Honestly? I don't think it will. I don't think this will make a sizable dent in their fandom, alas. I've seen people completely dismiss worse in the name of a ship. I think those of us who never thought this was a true love fairytale aren't surprised because this is who Daemon is, and those who love them will either ignore it or decry it as poor writing. And onscreen, I'm honestly not sure this will create a fundamental shift in their relationship. Rhaenyra didn't seem THAT surprised - whatever else we've seen go down between them, Rhaenyra is rarely shocked by Daemon and often calls his bluff, so I think she knows the ugliness in him. It's a toss-up on how involved Rhaenyra will be in Blood and Cheese, but going by the look on her face in the end, I think she's about to come a lot closer to embracing Daemon's way of thinking, so I lean towards her being more in the loop than not. It COULD still go the other way though - it'll be interesting to see. The other factor there is that Mysaria now has her own beef with the Greens.

Yeah, while we don't know exactly what Daemon heard or who he heard it from, I think the fairly clear inference from the final shot of Rhaenyra that she knows her son is dead and that the Greens are responsible. They really don't need any more proof than that - this isn't a modern court with "beyond a reasonable doubt" or something. No showdown in a castle remains a secret, so people will know Aemond threatened Luke and Luke refused to participate and tried to leave, and Aemond went after him, and now he's dead. That's all Rhaenyra and Daemon need to know.

Whatever Alicent thinks is irrelevant, tbh. It's what the realm will believe that matters, and given that everyone at Storm's End saw Aemond instigate the fight (Aemond is not supposed to do anything to someone under a peace banner and there's no way he doesn't know that - he's not supposed to start a fight, he's not supposed to "show" Luke anything, it's not the time), no one else will care what he has to say. And rightfully, no one except for MAYBE Alicent is going to think even beginning a fight with the largest dragon in the realm against tiny little Arrax could have ended any other way. I actually don't think he'll claim self-defense - I think it's too much of a blow to his ego that he couldn't control Vhagar. I think he's going to claim he intentionally killed Luke. It's a gamble - he'll likely be seen as violent, careless, and politically suicidal. This will be seen along the lines of Joffrey killing Ned Stark, which everyone, including Cersei and Tywin, thought was profoundly stupid and guaranteed a war. Except Aemond will be judged even more harshly as a kinslayer. But I still think that's the path he'll choose, instead of acknowledging he does not have real control over Vhagar.

It was actually nice to see that there seems to be genuine affection between Rhaenyra and Rhaena from their little interaction. Rhaena is the child that Daemon was indicated to be neglecting when she was younger, so it was nice to see Rhaenyra give her the respect of bringing her to the table. Now poor Rhaena, who remains dragonless at the moment, has lost her betrothed, who she seemed truly attached to :( That girl can't catch a break.

Yeah, I find his "OMG, I didn't mean for THAT to happen" reaction to be a little baffling. It was almost guaranteed that Luke would die in that mess. Aemond did not come out of that sequence looking smarter, lol.

That won't work here. As terrible as it is to say, Rhea wasn't nearly as important to the royal family as Daemon is. Aemond has caused the death of the Black Queen's son, someone at least as important as himself, if not more important. It's going to be the reverse of Daemon. No one will care what he has to say about it - they'll assume he murdered Luke and respond accordingly.

I mean, I think he WAS bloodthirsty, but in a stupid way. LOL. Somehow, he apparently didn't see the OBVIOUS end result of his actions. So yes, it would probably more impressive if he was a ruthless sociopath instead of a stupid bully. Daemon 2.0 this boy is not. It really doesn't help that the actor playing Luke did look quite young, versus I don't know how old the Aemond actor is, but he LOOKS like he's pushing 30. It looked like a grown man terrorizing a child. I seriously don't think a single soul would ever believe him that he didn't do it intentionally, and I wonder if he'll ever bother to try with that claim. Maybe he'll decide it suits him better to embrace the kinslayer title, but Mr. "I'm a Better Choice for the Throne" just blew THAT all to hell.