AliShibaz

Yes. I must admit to that and I must admit to the possibility that may well be the case here. But, as it has been said in the show, "Sometimes the best place to hide is in plain sight". Maybe someone with a drug habbit might like to find a way to indulge without appearing to be doing drugs. Someone sucking on a lollipop would never be thought of as being a junkie and indulging in their habbit in public. I just remembered that there is another obvious link to Elliot and his morphine addiction. If he should turn up sucking on a lollipop, I would seriously question whether that lollipop was anything more than just a lollipop. But I would guess the odds are about 75-25 you are correct and Dom's lollipop is just some candy and has no further connection to this story line.

I saw something recently while I was looking thru the net that I thought might interest some of you. In this episode as well as several previous episodes, Dom (the FBI agent) is shown sucking on a purple lollipop. I've always been intrigued by that and I posted some thoughts about it. But, take a look at the following link and see if you can make anything out of it: http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/fentanyl-signs-symptoms.html The above link is a news story that discusses the illegal use and manufacture of Fentanyl in China. It is said to be a huge (and growing) problem (akin to an epidemic now) as many people are dying from overdoses. There is a lot more to this story but I have not as of yet dug any further into it. I'm just wondering if any of you may have seen anything else related to this story or have any other ideas that might explain more about those Furshlugginer (obscure Mad Magazine reference) lollipops. I can't help but wonder after showing us how Dom loves those lollipops and how she gets them from a source who comes from Iran and how the link to China is so prevalent in this show, I just wonder if there may be any more to this story - more than meets the eye? I'm not trying to be funny or to laugh at the show. I'm genuinely curious if anyone else might think that maybe this may something more than just co-incidence?

Possibilities, The Conversation was one of the first movies I saw as an adult. As I recall it was released in 1974. Since that was 42 years ago, I don't think that it would do any harm to tell the story. But, just to be safe, I will state what I remember in the following spoiler box:

It's a stupid guy thing. He was excited at the prospect of meeting a girl and he stopped thinking with this big head and ....

And they will pay the price for that. A big heavy price for certain. Foolish people. I'm thinking maybe the reason Elliot wasn't around this week was because he was just embarrassed by their stupid decisions. I know that I would be.

She certainly ain't no nice girl. Dass fer sure! I think you could take things much further. There is a lot more hatred and meanness in her character and I have a feeling it may well come out before this show is over. She may well wind up killing some very important characters - maybe even her brother?

Unlike most people, I didn't find fault with Angela for responding to the plumber as sharply as she did. I saw that exchange as being a verbal attack by the plumber against Angela and her reply was her defense of herself - her character and her abilities. It is certainly true that she could have easily been more sympathetic and replied to him with a great deal more kindness and understanding. After all, I think she is much more intelligent and educated then he is and could easily have taken the high road with him instead of the low road. But on the other hand, if someone comes up to you and insults you face to face with some rather harsh statements, it seems to me that it's very difficult (almost impossible for most of us) to avoid defending yourself (on the spur of the moment) and telling the other person to just STFU and go DIAF. It takes a real saint to take the high road and reply to them with kindness and understanding when they have attacked you in such a harsh way. However, I am most certainly biased because I seem to feel very strongly towards Angela. If this was a real life situation, I think I would be in love with her. Everything about her just pushes all my "love buttons". All of her attributes (her character, her personality, her education and intelligence, etc.) just appeal to me as the kind of lady with whom I would love to have a romance - maybe even a marriage . I guess I just have much affection for her. IMO, Angela is a real darling - almost a perfect kind of spouse.. I know that under these circumstances, that sounds very foolish - almost crazy. But for some reason, that is truly the way I feel about her. She is wonderful and beautiful too.

The part of the story involving her had a few real weaknesses. For example, when she knocked herself out. That was probably the most ridiculous thing I've yet seen so far in this show. I've tried to think if Mr. Esmail was just trying to be funny. But I can't see that. That was just plain stupid - through and through!

Heading into the next episode following the reveal, I just want to point out that when Elliot said, "I will not hide anything from you again in the future", (or words to that effect), we should take his promise with a grain of salt. Just remember all the promises he has made (like his promise to use less morphine to Shayla) he has made and broken and my guess is that what he promises may have been for effect more so than the truth. I would not rely on any promises made by Elliot.

Several people who have posted in multiple threads (covering multiple episodes) in this show have made the point that Portia Doubleday portrays Angela in a way that can be described as "one note" or a "one trick pony". Something always bothered me about that and today I was re-watching S02E05. Anyone who feels the way I described in my previous sentence should look at that episode. About ten minutes from the end there is a scene between Angela and Phillip Price (the CEO of Evil Corp). It appears as if that scene takes place in some underground garage or abandoned subway tunnel. Anyway, Angela comes across as a real powerhouse. She appears to be on the same footing as Price. She most definitely does not play that scene with only a single note.

I wouldn't put too much into the settings we see because all the settings seem to be disguised. So, the question may be how much or what part of the settings are disguised and how much are real?

Further to the issue of: "Is Ray the prison warden"? If we can accept that most incidents we witnessed actually happened and only the clothes that people wore and the actual settings changed between the version we saw and the "real version" (or possible the version shown in the reveal), then I would guess the incident where one player threw or passed the B-Ball and it rolled out of bounds was real. Remember? The player shouted at Leon in a rude way telling him to get the ball and throw it to him. Leon refused and instead picked it up and threw it away. Then Ray went and got the ball and gave it to the original player/convict and tried to make peace by saying words to the effect, "We're all here to have a good time." Well, if we can accept that incident really happened, then it is extremely doubtful that Ray is actually the prison warden because no prison warden would ever behave that way. So Ray may well be just another inmate but a very powerful inmate. Perhaps he is the head inmate or "shot caller" and one of the reasons he has so much power is because he created this web site and made a lot of money before the big hack. I'm putting this forward because Ray never seemed like a prison warden to me.

I wonder if the chess games may be symbolic of some other kind of struggle going on between Elliot and Ray. If so, the question then may become, "Who or what does Ray represent to Elliot and in which of Elliot's views of reality"? If Ray is the prison warden (as some people have suggested), then maybe their chess games can be interpreted as the struggle that exists between the warden wanting to keep Elliot in prison and White Rose wanting to get Elliot out of prison. More likely, the chess games may represent the struggle between one or more hackers trying to defeat a system's security and the system security staff's attempt to protect the security of their system and defeat anyone attempting to hack into their system. I wonder. Hmmmmm. But if Ray represents some other character or barrier, then perhaps the chess games might represent some different kinds of struggle(s). I wonder if it might be interesting to create a record of all their chess games and record who won each game and see if the games could be compared to anything else going on in Elliot's life to see if there is some kind of hidden meaning about the games that could yield some clues to the reveal. It will probably take a lot of effort to create such a record and the odds that it will pay off must be pretty low. Still, if I can find the time, I just may try to do that to see if it might reveal any insights.

It staggers my imagination that someone who is bright enough to create a web site like Silk Road is so foolish as to go to prison for a big long term because they made such fundamental blunders. How can anyone be so clever and yet also be so stupid at the same time? Is there some kind of mentality that enables people to perform marvelous technical achievements but remains so clueless about fundamental errors in judgement they can leave themselves open to getting arrested and charged with some of the most foolish crimes? Crimes like Attempted Murder, for example, are just about the most stupid crimes anyone can commit because the penalties are just about as harsh as possible (the penalty for attempted murder is almost identical to those for murder) and the benefits of doing such a crime are not worth the anywhere near the costs. As I understand it, the person who created Silk Road went to prison for the rest of his life. And for what? He didn't make enough money to make the risk worth that amount of prison time. I don't think there exists any amount of money that makes it worth going to prison for the rest of one's life.

You are very likely correct about how most any FBI agent would be all "Oh Lord, this case is solved". The only reason why Dom may not exhibit that attitude is because it's not enough - not nearly enough - for an FBI agent to know who committed the crime and how and why they did it. They need to know so much more. They need to know the 3 pillars of a ciminal case - motive, means and opportunity. But that still is nowhere near enough. I'm sure most people will know where I'm going. Maybe you'd like to pause for a moment and guess what it is?

I must agree. I see this show as being highly artistic and very different than most any other show. It's an old stale joke about how there are 1,000 channels on our TVs but there is never anything on. Well, the point is that most TV shows are now pretty much unwatchable. I'm very much hoping Mr. Esmail will set a new style with this show and we will then see a big change in the way TV shows will be made in the future. Thank goodness if that is true. I get the impression that Sam Esmail is comparable to the James Joyce of the modern era. I'm no expert. But my understanding is that James Joyce was one of the greatest writers of all time. He was an Irish writer (1882-1941) who wrote several novels like Ulyses (1922) and Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man (1916). His writing is extremely artistic and very different from the writings of most other great authors. I think he is recognized as one of the most brilliant writers of all time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joyce

Nice point. Since Elliot has enormous difficulty dealing with social situations, he doesn't see her act. He just deals with her on a purely intellectual level and recognizes her as being on his level of intellect. I think we are in a very small minority when it comes to Angela. I think she is sublimely intelligent and that she is playing almost everyone to try and get revenge for her dead mother. I hope she will succeed and think she probably will. If that turns out to be true, it will be fun to see Dom crash and get taken to task for her silly behaviors - like the lollipops.

After seeing that scene with Joanna screaming in this episode, I suggested maybe she was the one who killed Tyrell to get his life insurance and/or settlement package. She needs money for her baby and Tyrell just got fired. When I saw your post wondering who might be sending Joanna those packages, I thought maybe the killer was doing it to try and make people think he was still alive. It was just a mental joke when I thought of that. But then I started to wonder, "What if Joanna paid her killer to send those packages to her as a way to throw off suspicion that she killed Tyrell? High speculative. Very highly speculative. But it will be so exciting if it turns out that she is the murder after all.

Tank Girl, Wonderful post. You have helped me to see this show in an entire new light. Very well done! Oh No! Don't go. You never can tell how it will affect you next season. I cannot figure out for the life of me how the show runner would have been content to wrap things up this season and never created any episodes in a third season. But apparently, he has something in mind and the more episodes I see, the more it all seems to fit together. I just got a big boost in understanding from Tank Girl's post above so I would encourage you to stick around and try it and see how you feel about it next season. This episode was a major development point. I can't believe it keeps on getting better. I was watching primarily to see how they would present the hacking and the attacks. But so much more has happened and so much more is interesting - even fascinating.

I think the basketball court was just the imaginary view of the prison yard where inmates often play basketball. By "imaginary view", I mean just like we saw Elliot sitting in a nice office talking with Krista (his therapist) and then the scene immediately transformed to the inside of a prison. Most people would call that part of the reveal. I don't think "imaginary view" is a very good way to describe it. I just can't think of a better term and I'd be very happy if anyone could suggest a better term to me. So, the basketball court may not be real. It may be just Elliot's imaginary view of the prison yard where there are some basketball hoops. Ray and the gang of rapists would likely then be inmates or guards who Elliot views one way in the prison and a different way in the basketball court. I guess it all depends on which view you consider to be real. Personally, I have no idea which is "real" or even if the term "real" applies to any of these views. I am very confused about this.

The name of Ray's dog is bound to be a trivia question in years to come. Her name was Maxine. Too bad we never saw her do much of anything. I would have liked to have seen her give Elliot a big kiss or something.

I think it's just her needing to get revenge on the people who killed her mother and I feel confident she will accomplish that. I have boundless faith in Angela.

You may very well be correct. I do hope the show will reveal the truth - one way or another - and will not leave us hanging in the lurch. Even if Dom doesn't believe Angela is innocent, I believe it was sublimely clever of Angela to come up with that excuse when she was being pressed by an FBI agent. She displayed a remarkable ability to think on her feet and come up with an excuse (even if it was mostly true). I think she did it better than probably 99 out of 100 other people (including me) could have done. But, I believe it will be exciting (as well as a great deal of fun) to find out just who is playing whom. In the meantime, I will cling to my opinion that Angela will outfox all the other foxes in this story. Cheers to you! I was very struck with the scene where some woman splashes red paint on Joanna. They showed a closeup of her mouth as she screamed something (probably "Help"?). I was struck by the look of her mouth and teeth. I have to wonder if they somehow enhanced that shot. I don't think it's likely they used some kind of computer enhancement. But her teeth were so exteme looking that I feel like calling her "Jaws" from now on. She looked like some kind of monster. I remember seeing some images of horrible fish creatures that live in the depths of the oceans and it seems as if most of their bodies consisted of huge elongated teeth. I'm not trying to be funny or to insult the actress. But, Holey Moley! I have never before seen teeth that appear so extreme. I suppose it has to be in my imagination. But I would love to know what was in the mind of the show runner when he decided to show her mouth and teeth for an extra long amount of time and accompany that shot with silence. We can't really know for certain just what it is she is screaming. But the look on her face and the look of her teeth tie in with her murderous personality and to my mind, they mark her as a horribly cruel predator and tie her Sado-Masochistic sexual behavior together with her murders. All I'm trying to say is that brief scene was chilling. Absolutely chilling! I think the cinematographer did a beautiful job on that scene. I'll never forget that look! As long as I live, that scene will figure prominently in my nightmares. People have been guessing just what happened to Tyrell. After seeing that shot, I would have to guess that she ate him. At least that she murdered him somehow. She has a very strong motive. She has a baby and needs his insurance money or settlement package. He was just fired and murdering him could be viewed as her best opportunity to get enough money to care for herself and her baby. After all, she no longer wants to be married to a man like Tyrell. She said words to that effect several episodes ago.

If anyone wants proof as to just how clever Angela is, consider the scene when Dom asks Angela what she was doing on that restricted floor and Angela throws the incident about the FBI doofus trying to hit on her into Dom's face. I know that most people would be shaking in their boots when confronted by an FBI agent after having just planted a hack that "owned" the FBI. But Angela was supremely cool and collected and truly outsmarted Dom. I loved that scene and I've always loved Angela. She is one of the most savy chars on the show. She may not have the technical smarts or abilities that others have. But there is just no way one can put a price on her ability to think on her feet like that. She's supremely smart. Also, just consider what she is doing in E Corp to try and get some revenge for them killing her mother. It's amazing! Wouldn't the site need access to a seller's wallet in order to place the money into their account? When making a purchase, a buyer can choose on the fly which instrument they wish to use to pay. So the site has no need to store any permanent info about their account numbers. They can use a different account or different method every time they make a new purchase. But when they make a purchase, the seller is not available. So the site needs to keep a record of where the money is to be sent. In other words, it needs to know some way to identify their bit coin wallet and deposit the funds there. The preceding sentence(s) may shound like I'm trying to present you with facts. But it's really just my opinion. It's just my best guess as to how the thing has to work. I'd like to hear from anyone who knows for certain how such an arrangement would work. I can understand why it wouldn't need to store any info about the buyer's wallet after verifying the money was available and transferring that money to the seller's wallet. But it would need to retain the info about the seller's wallet in order to make deposits every time a transaction was intitiated by a buyer. Would it not?

I'm really enjoying this thread. So many great opinions and theories. I love that people tend to respect each other and there is no quarreling or name calling. People here actually try to help each other to find the truth and develop theories. So unusual for the Internet. Seems to me that you people have a real gem of a forum here. I don't know what to make of the way time passes in these episodes. I see many people trying to make sense of how quickly or slowly Elliot's injuries heal and try to link that to other events to make conclusions. I'm getting the feeling this show runner is producing something here that is quite different than most other TV shows. It seems to be highly artistic and he seems to take a great deal of license with many of the facts and events. Could it be true that he intends to put together something that is a work of art more so than something factual and that people will be able to discuss and debate exactly how the timeline fits but we just may never be able to be certain about these things? Is it possible that many events will be left open to multiple interpretations? I didn't watch much of Twin Peaks. But as I understand, it was also highly artistic and much of it was left to the viewer's imagination. I wonder if this show may represent a change in direction for TV shows in the future. Mr. Esmail may well be a real visionary and a leader in the direction of TV. This episode and the reveal seem to bring that home for me. If you have ever read any of James Joyce's novels, you may get the feeling (like I do) that if James Joyce had ever written for TV, he would have produced something very much like Mr. Robot. I get the feeling that Sam Esmail's talent may well be very similar to James Joyce's talent. IMHO, both of them are real literary geniuses. It may be too soon to make such a statement about Mr. Esmail. But I just get a real strong feeling that it may well be the truth.