ReadMeLattice

I mean...the same way I expect Amber not to beat people up when she's high, Jenelle not to abuse her dogs or neglect her kids when she's high and in the throes of addiction, Cate not to drive when she's high...I think they're fucked up for doing those things even when they were really, really messed up and very mentally out of it at the time. There are a lot of addicts on this show. They all have enablers, and all of their enablers have their own issues and hypocrisies. It's hard to tell when who should have done what because we'll never get a real straight answer from *any* of these people about the actual sequence of events. Maci, Mackenzie, Ryan, Jen, and Larry are all going to have a different story about when the problem started and when they were first made aware of it, and probably none of them are actually telling the truth (although the only one I kind of trust is Larry, though he's too beholden to Jen to be fully trustworthy). They're just running their agendas.

.............. OH MY GOD.

I thought they said they were their neighbors? But they seem like normal people who always appear terrified by what's happening?

I agree, but I don't see how his driving is particularly Maci's fault for "exposing?" She wasn't even there. And he's ultimately the one I find most responsible. Not his parents, not Mackenzie, not Maci, him. I get that addiction is a messed up thing but there are several addicts on this show. We saw Amber beat up her partner on-screen and I wouldn't call her "exploited" for having her bad behavior exposed even though she was high at the time. He's endangering others too. I just don't have any sympathy for him when he's still calling his ex psycho and his wife is still defending him. Maybe focus on your own problems bro. Maci's a bitch who should take him to court and his family and wife (who also has a child she probably exposes to him) are whiny enablers, but ultimately he's the one endangering people and any embarrassment he feels is on him. I'm assuming he knew full well he was still using every time he signed up for the show. I don't feel bad for Catelynn being put down for driving drunk, for Maci being insulted for drinking pregnant, etc., so I don't feel bad for him either. It's not like it's a sudden radical shift and he was a great responsible dad before.

He seemed really angry with her during the whole mysterious "fight with Ryan" situation last season--now I understand why so much more.

She sure is trying to fit in (or be a breakout star) with a dramatic walk-off though, lol. It's like foundational TM to have someone walk off every reunion. Like a quota. I loved Amber's threat to walk off that even Dr. Worthless pretty much ignored. Girl, you're way over your walk-off limit, nobody cares anymore.

Plus, around half (by some calculations, most) of children born in the U.S. are now "illegitimate" by the "unmarried parents" definition. At this point it's actually statistically just as typical for kids to be born outside of marriage as in one. This doesn't mean Maci's choices for procreation patterns are positive or ones I agree with, but they are not atypical. That's the reality. What kills me is how she *pretends* to be traditional, but that's another story.

Yeah, that's what drives me nuts. It makes all of her behavior now way less understandable. If she hadn't acted so high and mighty I'd "get her" a lot more now. I still don't think she has any fault in the "Ryan's family" situation at all, and I do believe that Ryan's drug use has recently escalated beyond a point where it ever was before, but she really shouldn't throw stones from a glass house in terms of righteousness compared to Farrah, etc.

I agree with that last point but we could say that about any child on this show. Imo it's wrong to involve your kid in reality TV to begin with, especially because the reason you're on reality TV is likely because there's an embarrassing family problem.

I mean...they are, imo. Otherwise he doesn't deserve his paycheck. There are plenty of deadbeat baby daddies with drug problems. They are afforded privacy Ryan gives up when he signs up for a reality show season after season and takes MTV money. That's the point of a reality show. People give up their privacy and get paid to do it. Amber's addiction, Catelynn's mental health problems, Tyler's inability to respect adoption boundaries, and even the positives like Chelsea's relationship with Cole aren't "our business" either. They made it our business when they signed up for an MTV reality show. The dads and family members sign up or don't just like the moms and negotiate paychecks and screen time. They've done it for many years, they know full well it's about the drama. If you're a hardcore drug addict or the partner or parent of one, don't sign up. Easy enough.

Even what I heard from that conversation alone would be enough for me to know both of them are abusive, and I'm not an MD. He always jumps to "you should get therapy and work it out." I assume he's told to do that by MTV. I just personally can't respect him when he must know that's wrong.

The storm off is a requirement for these people. Dr. Drew is always soft on them but the excuses he makes for Amber and Matt kill me the most. He actually entertained Amber's victimy "I am a role model for thousands" speeches and Matt's bs enough to push them to reconcile. This man is a psychiatry professor and a licensed physician. Wtf.

Yeah. I'd have expected a couple of weirdos but not an overwhelming "you go Cate and Ty, you are her real parents and she knows that, they're so abusive for not letting you visit her!!" type of thing. Like...what?! Do this many people have no concept of what adoption is?!?!

"How do you measureeee, measure a year? In coke lines? In pill packs? In needles or innn denial? In Bud Lights, in handcuffs, in Xanax or jail? In 525,600 minutes, how do you measure a year in the life? How about-- reeeelllaapppseees? How about-- reeeellllapppse? How about reeelllapse? Measure in relapse....seasons of REEEEEEELLLLLAPSE, seasons of reeeeeeellllappse..."

"She's afraid of coming and facing her fears" is the explanation Amber gave for Farrah not wanting to be on stage. Um...fears like being assaulted? In Amber's weird amoral world, that somehow makes Farrah "less than." Her moral compass includes a strange mishmash of stand by your man and beat everyone's ass. I'd be scared of Amber too. The girl WENT TO PRISON--not an arrest, anger management, counseling, or a police visit, actually did some hard time--for violence and drugs, is supposedly heavily medicated, and is still having to be held back by multiple producers at least two times on the show that we've seen.

I agree. I saw that comment from Mackenzie ("your husband exploited you, not me") as "don't shoot the messenger." Maci can be self-righteous, awful and shitty all day--it's still not HER fault that Ryan is an addict or that his parents and fiancee want to hide it. They all knew it and agreed to be on the show. If they expect his ex, whose job it is to have drama on a reality TV show (as is theirs), to keep 100% silent (except for some required private conversation with Mackenzie, apparently?) about his incredibly obvious addiction, or the network to just ignore that when their job is to highlight the issues in the moms' and dads' lives, they are too stupid for words.

I watched a couple videos of them the other day on YouTube and was shocked by the number of people who think Cate and Ty are Carly's "real parents" and that Brandon and Teresa are in the wrong and basically just babysitting, and "owe" them visits. I guess I'm naive, but I truly didn't know that that many people didn't understand adoption at all...

The three of them getting on their high horses about Farrah at the beginning was hilarious. What exactly do they have to be so self righteous about? @ArtTypeGirl, + a million to literally everything in your post.

If Maci had told her, Mackenzie and Jenn would have called her a jealous liar.

Definitely agree there. MTV gives them their paychecks and runs their lives while they film. I have a hard time feeling sympathetic for Ryan/his family being "exploited." Basically, they're fine with being exploited, just not in a way that makes them look bad. Here's an idea: don't. take. the paychecks.

Right, I mean that Collin actually is mentally ill and needs help, and Jenelle knows that and is exploiting it.

I would have been a lot ruder than she was if that letter had been read aloud to me.

That's what I was thinking too! I already thought the pearl clutching "I simply cannot allow my child to be around a porn star!" stuff was ridiculous (because animal abusers, child abusers, felons, drug addicts and dealers, spousal abusers and deadbeats are all fine to appear with I guess...but god forbid you legally make money off of sex), but this made it even more so. Bentley's own father was on drugs the whole time. That's not embarrassing?! That said, that letter Mack wrote to Maci was ludicrous. Maci didn't owe her anything and you can't ever convince me Mackenzie didn't know. Watching those two fight was a huge eye roller. Come on-- Maci didn't make a fool out of you, force drugs into Ryan's veins or push you to marry hastily in an aquarium parking lot. That's on the two of them. And Larry and Jen are enablers to the max and are around him a lot more than Maci is. Where's their blame? Why is it 100% Maci? Isn't it ultimately Ryan's own problem? Mack has a child of her own. It's her job to make sure her partner is safe and she didn't. That's on her.

At least Nessa doesn't have a license that should really, really be taken away...

Yeah, saying your known-to-be-abusive mom would knock you out doesn't exactly endear her to me. We know she'd knock you out. She spent your childhood on drugs and exposing you to domestic violence.