simplyme

Also, @LanceM just posted a link in Jay's thread to an interview with Michaela where she says one reason she believes Jay targeted her then was that she was talking about taking out Michelle next. That info makes the timing of Jay's move MUCH more understandable for me.

I remember liking Troyzan until he realized he was on the outs and went on a rant in a TH which I translated (correctly or not) to "I hate my ex-wife, so all women are evil, backstabbing witches." I was rather uncomfortable with him conflating his opinion of his ex with that of all women. I mean, personally, I'm short. I tend to go for the ankles and knees, not the back. That said, he was feeling betrayed at the time and kind of went a bit aggressive for my taste after that, but I'm kind of interested in seeing what he's like a second time. Different people, hopefully fewer issues with his ex (no idea how recent that divorce was), whatever.

Awww. I know lots of people dislike Hannah, but I have a soft spot for her. Her questioning of Bret was funny as hell. I like seeing a mix of people on Survivor, including those awkward, neurotic people who know they are and go for it anyways. To me, that takes guts. That's one of the things I like most about this season. There are a lot of very different people, but they're all trying to find ways to connect to each other. There's no one I really actively disliked. I read the belching/farting scene's inclusion slightly differently than some other viewers. I thought the editors put it in there to increase tension as to which tribe would lose the immunity challenge, and to plant the idea that if Vanua lost that Michelle might be in trouble because she was the lone girl on a tribe of heathen men who felt a bit closer to each other. I thought the scene of Jessica talking to/about Taylor and how he might be a safer bet than Adam because he doesn't understand strategy essentially served the same purpose for Takali. To create a bit of suspense and worry about the immunity challenge and how things would play out on that tribe if they lost. I was actually pretty impressed with the editing this episode because I felt they took the time to try and mislead us and create that tension. Okay, I also loved the shot of that lizard giving the camera the eye right after Jay floated the idea of blindsiding Michaela in a TH. Loved the lizard.

I will respectfully disagree. I don't think there needs to be a crystal clear Pagong line set up. It just takes enough people who see Jay as one of the primary threats to remove from the game ASAP and the ability to do so. I'd guess that within the next two votes or so, unless he wins immunity, Jay either has to play his HII to save himself or he's gone. Of course, I've been wrong before. :) I can't wait to see how things shake out. *bounces*

You're mistaken. The Legacy Advantage will not appear until Day 36. Since we've all been so confused about it, here's what we know (copy and pasted from the article http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/22/survivor-jeff-probst-premiere-millennials-gen-x-cyclone ): (I put it in a spoiler tag just in case someone thinks having Jeff answer details about possible transitions will remove the mystery.)

After thinking about it for a while, I think Jay just screwed himself over. By removing Michaela from the game this early and in this manner, he removes someone who was potentially a larger target than himself and seemingly loyal to him at this point. He also alerts everyone that he is full-out, cut-throat playing and will lie to and backstab even those who think they are his allies. Note that I don't think removing her was the problem, but that this move was too early. Jay just trashed some trust, I think, and put an even bigger target on his back. Michaela appeared to be planning for pure Millennials for the next several votes. He should have gone with that, re-established his ties with everyone else and read where loyalties were and what new bonds he had to work with, and a few TCs down the line vote her out. It would be unlikely for her to win every immunity challenge, and he would probably be able to finesse it as "I love Michaela, but she's such a powerhouse that if any of us want to win, we need to get rid of her now." Being a bit later in the game when people are thinking more along those lines, he'd likely spook fewer people into thinking he's playing really hard and is dangerous. Up until this, Jay was my favorite player. He still may be, but I expect him to be sent home pretty darn quickly now. Le sigh. (Also, earlier today in the previous episode thread, I said I was interested in seeing Michaela's gameplay post-merge. Apparently that was the kiss of death. Rather like my, "Hey, CeCe has been doing okay the past couple episodes!" comment one week. BAM. Bye, CeCe.) No, Brett, it is not true that your only option is for you to write down Sunday's name and Sunday to write down your name. There are a bunch of other options. *headdesk* That's just stupid. Michaela and Hannah seemed to have a pretty good relationship overall from the bits I saw this time. Michaela seemed to be playing Survivor like a team sport. Win for the tribe. Diagram out how to win for you and your teammates. Unfortunately, it's not a team sport. From what I saw, Ikabula didn't lose because Michaela "hogged the slingshot." Both Brett and Jay took a lot of shots too. They all traded off when people got tired. They lost because their aim, collectively, sucked. Chris clearly had the best aim, giving Vanua the come from behind win, and Ken and Taylor had a little bit more time to get their targets down for Takali. (They started shooting first.)

Wow. This season is fascinating to me. I'm going to have to ponder whether that was too early a move by Jay or not. I'm still liking pretty much everyone. Jessica's description of Taylor made me laugh. I liked the editing job. I thought they put in enough coverage of all tribes to make it plausible that any could lose and go to TC.

Thanks for that, @fishcakes. I remember hating Lisi, but strangely have no memory of hating Stacy. I wonder if I was so thrilled by the Edgardo blindside that my mind decided to do a little revision on my memories?

I liked Stacy, too. I could never figure out why everyone hated her. I mean, everyone. The answer to the castaway poll question of "What Survivor would you never take home to meet your family?" was Stacy. Everyone but Stacy got it right. Did she wander the island kicking endangered species or something? What? I seriously had no idea what the problem was from what we were shown.

TL;DR stands for Too Long; Didn't Read. Think of it as saying "Short version:"

I'd respectfully argue that Survivor is even more of a social game than a grit and survival game. You could conceivably lose every challenge and still make it to FTC, and if you did so against people who were truly hated, you could conceivably win. It's not like anyone looked at Sandra and thought, "Whoa. Challenge beast." Yet she has two wins to Ozzie's zero. Russell never seemed to grasp that social aspect and that's why he lost. Repeatedly. I'll admit that I'm waiting to see what Michaela's gameplay is like postmerge and how it is received. Right now we're in what I think of as the teamwork portion of Survivor. The latter portion, people have to turn on each other and are no longer competing in tribes, and they start using all sorts of things to justify voting for someone. Someone comes across as nice? Vote them out because everyone likes them! Someone doesn't come across as nice? Vote them out because they're a jerk! ;)

Here's my reaction to Michaela/Hannah and the ball table challenge. Sorry, it's long, and it took me a while to think it all through. (I admit I didn't rewatch either.) Yes, that challenge basically requires one person does the major moving of the table while the other steadies the table to do it well. We'll call them the dominant player and support player. Now here is where I disagree with some folks. I saw nothing that indicated that Hannah was "screwing up" the challenge. Michaela may have realized how it worked best (hell, Hannah may have, too), but we saw no clear, communicated deliniation of roles. I don't know that it is fair to assume that Michaela should always have the dominant role simply because she tends to be the more aggressive player. In defense of Hannah: 1. The challenge requires recognizing that those two roles are needed. 2. Then the two players have to agree on which player is taking which role. 3. Even after that, players must adjust to each other's movements. This will take a bit of time. Hannah wasn't wildly flailing. There was miscommunication at the beginning when both players would move the table too much, both trying to be the dominant player. This subsided when Hannah accepted the support role and the two adjusted to each other. While I wasn't thrilled with Michaela's treatment of Hannah, I suspect she is used to being the dominant player on sports teams, and it may not have occurred to her that Hannah would claim that role. She's also probably used to barking orders during competitions. I suspect she would have treated everyone on her team, er tribe, except Jay in a similar manner. She may not have used the exact same words with each, though. I imagine the "Don't get frustrated" was specifically for Hannah, but I can easily see her yelling Shut up! at any or all of them. I don't know that I would call it "just coaching." It's more a focused, aggressive player's attempt to win, and to them, they are always right. It's not always fun or easy to play alongside. I think how people react to this (as viewers, as onlookers, as teammates, and as the target) is going to vary a lot based on 1. personal experience and 2. whether or not they win. (I think gender is less of a factor than others, but YMMV.) I should probably add 3. how you feel about both players. If you've spent a lot of time around team sports, it is not unusual to encounter a Michaela-type. I think @303420 (I hope I remembered the right poster number there) covered that pretty well. Gym class does not count. Someone who tends to be a very good, valued player tends to be given leeway for barking orders at others or being pushy so long as it is seen as contributing to the team. However, if they are doing this and the team loses, it can go poorly for them. I'll also note that it may not translate between sports, and you can wear out your welcome if you're just a jerk in general. (I graduated with a guy who was the national wrestling champ at his weight. Great at wrestling. Picking for teams in gym, there were a LOT of other guys picked first because he was one of those guys who thought he was a team of one in everything and would run over his teammate to make a catch, often screwing it up.) So it's kind of a mixed bag here for me. It's pretty much a clash of personalities that can be interpreted through a bunch of different personal lenses. Michaela can seem mean. Hannah can seem awkward. If I were Hannah, yeah, I wouldn't have liked what was said. I thought she handled herself well. But I've also been around enough Michaela-types that I would have rolled my eyes and not taken it personally. Hannah and Michaela are at a disadvantage in not knowing each other long enough to really have the give and take down. I knew people well enough that when I hit a limit with someone's mouth towards me or someone else, I would tell them I needed quiet or support for a bit. They shut up. Off the field, those people have had a wide variety of personalities, from jerk to sweetheart. On the field, no one mistakes them for being cute and fuzzy, but if they're truly gifted, most people want them on their team.

Definition of panic from Oxford dictionary: Sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behaviour You're expecting someone in an illogical state to act logically. While they can sometimes catch it early enough and use their training to exert some control, you're asking a lot about a condition that varies wildly from person to person and situation to situation. I'll note that fire exits must be unlocked and clear at all times because experience has shown that if they are not, panicked people will not stop and wait for them to be unlocked or items to be cleared. They'll crush others to death. They cannot do the calm, rational thing. One year I had a Very Bad Year. I went through a divorce (amicable, but still sad and stressful) and had five close friends and family members die and another diagnosed with terminal cancer. Every two months or so, BAM! My therapist moved and I got stuck with a useless therapist who said things like, "Do you think you're crying a lot because something bad may have happened to you during your childhood?" (I thought my response of, "No. I think I'm crying a lot because people keep DYING" was pretty tactful since I left off the "You tool.") I was put on depression medication and had bad anxiety and then started having panic attacks. I had one at work, out of the blue, though I managed to get out of the public area and into an office and convince my coworkers not to call 911. (They sent me home. Some understood, but after that, several referred to me as crazy. Before that I'd always been the golden girl.) Turns out the depression medication made me highly anxious. I switched meds (and now have that one listed as an allergy. Never, ever again.) People stopped dying. Time passed and I had time to process things. I found a decent therapist and stopped having panic attacks. I burned the calendar at the end of the year. Life went on. And to some people, I'm SimplyMe, and to a few others, I will forever be "that crazy girl" because no matter what you say to them, they cannot comprehend a panic attack. So I knew exactly what Hannah meant when she said some people were judging her. I also know that you can intellellectually realize what is going on, but be unable to stop a panic attack from occurring. Because trust me, almost the last thing I wanted to do was lie on the floor, shake, and gasp frantically for air in front of people I worked with and respected. I've had some panic attacks since (for me, stress and trauma seem to drive them), but fortunately they've all been at home. But I do have some respect for Hannah because living with panic attacks can be frustrating, and there is one hell of a stigma associated with them. I'll spare you all any more posts on this topic from me. :)

If Taylor had a gf while on the show and this is the same one, she's a lot more forgiving than me. Or she's had a lobotomy. (Two for one deal with Tayls?)

Figgy wasn't evil, she was just very, um, junior high-ish to me. As a viewer, I found her irritating and surprisingly oblivious according to the edit. (Taylor even moreso.) I did notice one thing she did at TC that would have made me vote for her if I were Adam and I were straddling the fence. When she said Adam voted for her but she didn't hold a grudge, she grabbed his head. I think she meant it to come off as "Hey, look! I'm playful! We're buds!" but unless you actually know someone really well and have a very affectionate bond, that actually is a power move. You do not touch someone's face or head unless you know they are receptive. Try that with a dog and you'll get bitten. That's essentially what happened to her.

There probably are some people that fake panic attacks for attention. (I worked with the public for years. I now have low expectations of humanity.) That said, in this case Hannah's attack put her in a worse position in the game. I don't think it was intentional. I think it was pretty much as explained. She got excited as a spectator, her breathing got too shallow and fast, and that triggered a physical reaction of faintness and hand cramps. Then she started to panic because she wasn't sure if it was anxiety or if it was heat stroke or what. Having a medical professional help get her breathing back to normal and tell her it was anxiety enabled her to then mentally take back control and finish the process of calming down.

Since we're discussing eye candy, Zeke has gorgeous eyes. (Yeah. I noticed the gay man's eyes. In my defense, I noticed most of Ken. I'm not dead.) I also think both Michaela and Jay have some great facial bones, though Jay's hair is distracting.

Some people value the family jewels more than others? :)

Michaela reminds me of an old coworker of mine, a 77-year-old woman who told you exactly what she thought. She could be a bit sharp, but she wasn't mean, and I really liked her, possibly because I've dealt with waaay too many passive-aggressive types. You knew where she stood. She wasn't going to pretend to like someone and then talk trash about them behind their back. I think if you give Michaela a few years and some more social experience, that may be how she ends up. I interpreted David's comment about not winning the challenge with CeCe not as a comment on CeCe's challenge ability, but one on Michelle's versus CeCe's. I think David knows he's no great shakes at challenges, but he was reaffirming to the tribe and Michelle after their win that he knew they made the right choice (between CeCe and Michelle) because they would never have won that challenge with CeCe instead of Michelle. Also, I love that we have different opinions on players. Makes the discussion more interesting. :) Aaagh. Italics won't turn off.

There is a huge difference between feeling anxious (which we all do to some degree at varying times) and having panic attacks. As another "old lady" (*waves a cane in greeting*), most people I know personally who have developed panic attacks have gone through some significant life events like the death of a loved one or a traumatic event. (Stress does also play a huge role.) As to Hannah's question, "You won't let me die?": Part of that may be her anxious nature, but if you've ever had a panic attack where you are struggling to breathe and your heart pounds and races (to the point where people think they are having a heart attack), you also know why she might feel that way. No, she won't die, but it's hard to be rational mid-attack without external feedback telling her that. I am a bit surprised she chose to go on Survivor, but good for her. She's having a rare life experience rather than limiting herself due to a fear of having panic attacks. That's the way to go.

As Figgy said her final words and mentioned that FigTayls was no more, SimplyMom glanced up from playing card games on her laptop and said, "I'm devastated" in perfect no affect Ken tone. I don't think tribal fractures in the Millennials are as clear cut as some people think. Yes, Adam and Zeke were, in theory, on the bottom due to the Mari vote, but Figgy (the catalyst for those fractures) is now gone and I suspect there are way more pressing people to vote out. Also, from secret scenes it seems Jay and Zeke get along well, and Michaela seems to get along okay with most people despite her sometimes abrupt personality. They seem to understand and appreciate her. Bret is the one who said to Michaela that she "could do anything." He also said, "Wow, this guy can do everything!" about Jay when they were building the new camp and was super-appreciative of Michaela starting the fire. (Well, they all appeared to be.) The glimpses of Bret that we've gotten in Ikabula have all been pretty tribe and player positive. Granted, they haven't had to go to TC yet. He mostly strikes me as fodder, but he seems fairly genial in the Ikabula setting. I feel like his personality and game are both driven by the people around him based on the tiny, tiny bits we've seen. Damn, Figgy. Way to put a target on your ally. Michelle handled it the best she could, but that was damaging. Ken actually showed me he had a real sense of humor this episode! He laughed! It was awesome and made my heart sing. Go, Ken. Glad Jay has the idol. I can't really see how people mix up Jay and Taylor. Jay is the one who thinks and appreciates people (and in a secret scene referred to Michaela as a Greek goddess after she made fire.) Taylor is the golden retriever in human form.

Bush baby eyes, redux. My evaluation is that it's too risky to actively try to get an ally out without them suspecting or finding out you had a hand in it, but who knows if Ken's evaluation matches mine. And that's why I love this show. :) Completely unrelated, but I swear I could hear music in my head while watching the orange team during the Immunity Challenge. It sounded like the background music for the old silent comedies when actors would do a series of pratfalls... Zeke's confused "Is he throwing this?" made me howl.

That was my initial reaction, but I've since rethought it. Jess was able to use that info to rebuild her bond with Ken. She didn't just say, "Thanks," she also put her trust in him. And from what we saw in Ken's TH, it worked. He trusts her again. The other thing is that if Jess suspects or believes Ken has any hand in voting her out, she'll change who she gives the Legacy Advantage to. So Ken now knows she has it and he has her trust and vote, but if he tries to get rid of her for an advantage that won't kick in until Day 36, that advantage will likely go to someone else. However if he hangs in there with her and she happens to go out before him, it will likely go to him. As they get closer to Day 36, he can reevaluate his options, but for now just the two of them knowing and keeping her in game is wisest. Jess gains a close ally and stays in game. There's no incentive (that I can see) for Ken to tell others about Jess having the Legacy. It's better for him if no one even knows it exists except the two of them, and if she goes out first he has the greatest chance of getting a secret weapon. If he backstabs her, there's a decent chance she'll figure it out and he'll lose the advantage to someone else (as well as losing an ally). So while I normally would say she shouldn't have told anyone, in this scenario I think Jess used the info well and probably gained more than she'll lose. Probably.

I thought the tribe swap made for some fascinating new tribe dynamics. Loved it. Probably unpopular, but I really like Jay. He not only seems to have a killer social game, but he's handy around camp and good at challenges without being a bossyboots challenge-hog. He knows how to work as a tribemate and teammate. He swam twice to get the buoy left behind by Sunday and hit the water to retrieve buoys Michaela shot that missed. I have more difficulty seeing Chris allowing the shooting role (or swimming or... anything, really) to go to someone else to spread the load. I think the big reasons more people don't cheer for Jay are his early association with Taylor and Figgy (ew, and hopefully waning) and the fact that he seems to have cottoned that if he gives the generational rah rah crap in his THs, he'll get more play. Oh, CeCe. I made the mistake of hoping for you last week, and this week you got a swimming challenge and then basically did nothing we saw to shore yourself up with anyone. Goodbye. I think Zeke combined fanboying with a way to bond with the obviously physically strongest member of the dominant-in-numbers faction of his new tribe. It worked. FigTayls. *eyetic* *eyetic* Alone, I can see good points in each. Together? Jesus. Jessica telling Ken about the Legacy: My first thought was, "Uh, what? Why wouldn't he immediately vote you out for it?" Then I realized if he votes her out, she'll give it to someone else. So telling him as a sign of trust actually works. Bret away from Chris: We can see that he may not be Einstein, but he has a kinder feel with the Millennials. Or maybe someone warned him about Michaela and her machete. :) As other's have said, Michaela's comment about her family was insightful. She's a fighter. Love her so far. Oh, as for why to like David? He has a sense of humor about life and himself, and even when he screws up, he doesn't stop trying. I have a lot of appreciation for people who may not be physically gifted but suck it up and just keep doing what they can without deteriorating into bitterness.

I really like the puzzles, too. Not everything should be physical challenges, even if some folks find puzzles boring to watch. Sorry, people bored by puzzles! I will respectfully disagree with you about the spatial/image puzzles being practically just luck. I suppose they can be, but there are people who are very good at spatial relations or recognizing image pieces and how they fit together, and those are different skills not necessarily tied to word puzzle skills. My mother is great at word puzzles and pretty good at spatial and image. My father is the reverse. The woman next door couldn't do a word puzzle to save her life, but give her anything to do with spatial relations and I have never seen her equal. (If she packs something, every iota of space is used. Take notes when you unpack or things will not fit back in.)