rogueprinzess

THIS! I feel like the episode pacing was also a bit off; more than once I felt the length of a scene because the focal point was vague. But the timing of this episode is what's especially strange. I feel like they could have split this episode into small parts of earlier ones; it would have kept us up on what was happening with H&D while still moving the plot along. I also feel like Dawn's story was kind of glossed over compared to Hank's. Anyways, very ready for episode 10.

I assume that Gar likely ended up, er, hearing them especially if the bedrooms are near each other. Also, Dick & Kory are sharing a room so maybe he saw them entering it together. Not to mention that I wouldn't put it past Kory to make an overt comment. Also, is this next episode meant to be another backdoor pilot? I just don't get why they would have a bottled episode this late in the season

I get the sense that Dick hasn't checked in with Hawk & Dove yet; as strange as it seems I think the timelines of show has only been maybe a week or so, despite the show being on for over a month. Hence why the characters only changed clothes recently. So with that in mind, its not so strange that Dick hasn't checked in yet; also the fact that the team has been non-stop busy/being attacked/on the run since they left them.

I really liked this episode. It's not an easy task to depict the type of emotional and psychological damage that the asylum staff inflicted on our group in one episode, but I'm glad it wasn't drawn out over multiple ones. All of the titans had something they needed to break through, and this (albeit horrifying) shared trauma pushed them to it, as well as strengthened their bond as a team. Dick needed that final push to finally say goodbye to the option of returning to Robin. Having the suit (which I assume the asylum peeps took from the van) with him and still donning it whenever he felt like being hyper-violent was still a safety net for Dick; a way back to what was familiar. But after living through beating himself up (figuratively and emotionally) he's finally ready to accept that he made the choices to become and stay Robin as long as he did, and that he has the power to decide what he wants to do going forward - hence the symbolic burning of his costume once and for all. I felt sorriest for Gar. His reaction to the torture was a bit surprising; to me it showed that he's experienced pain before but also how incredible strong he is. The way he killed that man was completely feral, the type of animal reaction that occurs when pain has been suffered and one's trying to protect themselves. He didn't think about it, and once it hit him he was absolutely devastated. I hope the show doesn't gloss over his PTSD over this, but as sad as it is, he did need to learn to use his claws and teeth for more than just props. I think it may trigger his ability to shift into other things now though so he can avoid this memory associated with the tiger. My poor dear Starfire. She didn't deserve any of this, especially considering she could have charbroiled all of them in those tunnels and walked out unscathed. While she didn't exactly break through any new powers here, she did have her first run-in with feeling truly vulnerable. I feel that if anything this made her see that she needs the team as much as Rachel needs her. Rachel is really the only one that didn't have a major breakthrough outside of finding out she can heal-ith and taketh away. I agree that the guards seemed ridiculously slow in trying to recapture her. I look forward to next week, it'll be interesting to FINALLY see more about Kory and how she got here.

I'd bet money that Iris didn't actually create the chip, but knew how to get it or requested to have it made. My money is that Cisco, Harry, Caitlin or Felicity (or a combined effort) created it, maybe out of a sense of protecting metas in the future that Legends speaks of. Caitlin could have planted it as she has medical knowledge, or heck maybe even Wally phased through her to do it (which actually now that I think on it is a likely theory that would leave no scars for Nora or anyone else ask about later on). I also think that Joe knew about it and was likely on board. He kept Barry's meta side from Iris thinking it was the best thing to protect her, and if Iris convinced him that it was best for Nora I can see him agreeing. My guess is that Nora's issues with Iris weren't just about the chip, but in the last episode she eluded to the idea that Iris is emotionally unavailable to Nora and refused to tell her anything about her past. Joe on the other hand may not have been so shutdown and he likely tried to compensate for Iris' inability to bond more with Nora (we still don't know why she was like that, but my money is that it was triggered largely by losing Barry) In the show Nora said that Barry disappeared when she was maybe two. So he may have been the one to insert it as per my guess about Wally. The only reason I don't think so is because I doubt Nora showed any signs of being a meta that young, but perhaps they were able to test for it. I'd kinda like idea of Barry being the one to do it though; it would further cement his solidarity with Iris on all things and also knock him off the pedestal that Nora insists on putting him on.

You're probably right, but I think access to and proper diagnosis of mental conditions during the 60s/70s was rare, especially in an active war zone. Many times behaviour like Nicky's was equated to mundane emotions

My guess is that Starfire's story will be next season. This one definitely seems to be primarily about Dick and secondarily about Rachel (at least her origin). That's a lot for one season (especially a short one) so my prediction is that Starfire will remember who she is either right before or in the finale, and the second season will explore more of her origins and purpose going forward. I'm okay with that because I feel like Starfire's story is the richest one next to Dick's in this show (mainly because her character has literally lived more than Gar or Rachel). If done properly, it could and should span several episodes and show us many layers. I feel like Rachel and Gar's stories are the ones that are going to unfold before our eyes because they're both so young and still writing their stories. I agree that I hope we find out what Dick's final straw was in terms of breaking up with Batman. I think the show is being as creative as they can with it since they can't actually use Batman but hopefully it'll be something good.

SO MUCH THIS! I don't blame the acting because as you've mentioned, JPK has shown her acting chops on Black Sails and can do a variety of emotions and dispositions. This is the writing (and by extension, the editing) of her character. She's written to be immature and self-centred. She's written to have little to no concern for the only parent she's really ever known. I've seen and personally known so many people who were raised by truly awful parents who STILL would give anything to have a healthy relationship with them because that's how familial relationships work (of course I'm excluding parents who've committed horrific acts i.e. willful abuse and worse). As many have brought out before, even if Iris was cold and distant in the future, it makes zero sense that Nora being in this time - seeing her mother be apparently completely different than the one she's known - wouldn't be trying to get to know this version of her mother and building the relationship she's always craved. And how she could have had a great relationship with her grandparents and aunt whilst raging against her mother - that will never add up. Joe is Iris' biggest stan next to Barry. Anyhow, point being, the writing for this could have been smoother, or they could have made Nora a teenager instead of a mid-twenty something if this is the route they wanted to go.

Anna is definitely killing it as Starfire. She plays it in such a way that I'm so interested in peeling back the layers of her character and learning more about her. She also has such an easy and natural chemistry with her co-stars that makes their scenes shine too. The scenes with her and Dick were great; I love that it's not all starry-eyed schmoopiness (even though they are still clearly feeling each other) but just the right balance of slightly awkward and comfortable. I like that Dick feels close enough to Kory to be honest with her about what he's going through and actually listen to her when she comments on it. Even the little joke about her not killing the doctor was cute. I'd like to see her have more scenes with Rachel on a bonding level though, particularly about handling the power that resides in them. But I guess those may have to wait until Kory remembers who she is. Jason Todd's parallel to Dick on how to be Robin and how they feel about it was good. It was a great way for Dick to finally get off the fence of whether or not he was really ready to shed the mantle of being Robin for good. It was also interesting to see the perspective of what Dick wanted to be his experience (being raised by Clint) versus what actually happened (being raised by Bruce). Clint thought that Dick needed money and the opportunities that it would provide for him, but Dick wanted love and a sense of family. It's interesting in that while Dick didn't completely "miss out" in life by being raised by a billionaire vigilante, he definitely could have been a much different and perhaps less troubled person if he'd lived according to his parents' will. But honestly I'm just happy that this part of Dick's story is resolved so that we can get closer to the actually assembly of the Titans. Dick now knows that he's never going back to Robin, so he can fully step into being Nightwing and focus on making his new family work.

Interesting take. I personally have felt like Barry has been holding back A LOT in his bonding with Nora. Nora's put in 90% of the effort to bond with Barry and he's giving it the bare minimum. I feel like what he said in the premier about how he's feeling 'robbed' of his firsts with his child and just his overall weariness of her being there (and rightly so - how long before she starts losing memories or shifting as a person because she's in the wrong time line?). If Nora put the energy she's put into bonding with Barry into Iris, she and her mom would be inseparable by now. I'm not sure what Barry's apprehension is where Nora's concerned, but I'm hoping the show explains it soon. I think it's not so much that he wants to take a backseat to parenting as much as he doesn't want to actively engage with Nora that much. Why is the question.

I'm thinking that this could be the case, or that he died much later than when the rest of the world thought he did. I have a theory that Jack wasn't able to completely get Nick back on board even after bringing him to the riverside town, and so to "save" Nick, Jack told him to run and he'd tell everyone (including their family) that he died so he wouldn't get court marshaled. The woman with the necklace may be the one that helped Nick hide by taking him deeper into Vietnam or getting him somewhere else in Asia. It would explain why Jack is so adamant about not talking about the war or Nick at all; a safety measure to ensure he doesn't slip up and use present tense or worse, in a drunken stupor admit the whole truth. I wouldn't be surprised if this trip of Kevin's has him uncover a family that Nick had down there

The reality of life is that most of us don't get to be "perfect" before becoming parents. Most of us also don't actively try to be parents, more oft than not, families start 'by accident' (I have issue with this term simply because the act of sex is literally reproduction so, every time is trying and if you don't get a it, you lucked out) While I agree that children should not be used to 'fix' people's issues, I do believe that they can be a huge driver for people to make those changes (and realistic). I too think that Zoe will get pregnant this season, if she isn't already. I think the show has been giving us pretty heavy anvils from Kate's infamous "only one to carry on a piece of dad" line, to being sure to show us their physical relationship, to Kevin saying that the idea of being a dad makes him nauseous, to of course, being sure to show us Zoe being sick, when they easily could have shown her laying in bed with stomach cramps. I also (sadly) think that Kate's baby isn't going to make it, so it won't be baby overload. I agree that Kevin is really in love as well. His past relationships were based on a false version of himself (the one that was always okay and perky) who was desperate for attention. This is the first time he's had to work to get someone to fall for him, but as you mentioned, not be looking for the ego boost or validation from his partner. I think Kevin finally feels needed by someone in a way that isn't temporary or interchangeable, especially now that Zoe's showed such a vulnerable side of herself to him. I really like their dynamic a lot. They have so many ways to help each other grow and improve in healthy ways

As mentioned before, Blink was conveniently (for plot) knocked out by the gas so she couldn't portal. John's powers seem to be on the blink (no pun intended) for a while now. I sense that his decline in invulnerability is linked to his lack of confidence lately. You're right about Eclipse; we've seen him hone his powers into a laser-like beam that cuts through metal many times and, oh yeah, Shatter has the ability to crystalize walls and oh, you know, SHATTER them (as we saw in the season 1 finale). But, that was all conveniently forgotten about in favour of fumbling Reed.

I actually really liked this episode, mostly due to the pacing picking up and less time spent on the characters that annoy me most; Andy and Caitlin. Shatter absolutely did NOT have to die in this episode, or if they thought someone did, they could have had him die in a more believable/sensible way, like taking a bullet for the EXPENDABLE RANDOM TEENAGE BOY that no one knows or cares about or taking bullets to the back to keep them from hitting other mutants as they fled through Reed's disintegrated wall. But no. Sigh. The Lorna/Esme stuff was great. I like seeing their dynamic grow. I predict they will end up betraying and consequently taking down Reeva, then being the next leaders of the Inner Circle. Also loved the Esme/Cuckoos backstory Reed acted like Andy this episode so he annoyed me. He knows better than this. Or maybe he won't be happy until he "accidentally" melts Cait's arm off in bed. Are John's abilities weakening? Andy deserves Rebecca. I can't wait to see when she turns all Fatal Attraction on him and starts inverting his family members for funzies.

Oh thank god I'm not the only one who can't stand Leah. I feel like they've put her in Shaun's world to "mature" him and help him get over his phobia of intimacy that was created after that traumatizing experience as a child. But I just can't stand her. I don't find her believable (maybe it's her acting style) and I rarely enjoy the scenes that she and Shaun have together. Shaun interacts far better with Claire and even Reznik. I'm ready for to leave, this time some place further like, Australia. I liked Clair and Park together. Claire's natural empathy is exactly what Park needs to let down some of his police armor now that he's a doctor and not dealing with criminals every day. Don't know if I see anything romantically happening there but I wouldn't hate it if it did. I too am SO glad Claire didn't apologize either. She has a right to her own thoughts/opinions and choices and she shouldn't apologize for them just because Melendez *may* be the next bigwig. I think he actually respects her more for standing her ground.

The show would actually have to acknowledge that Iris and Cecile and Joe and Wally are black before they can start to address things like their natural hair. The Flash, Arrow and SG live in this fantasy world where racial issues and bigotry don't exist unless they refer to metas. This is why shows like Black Lightning and TItans could never fly in this universe. They refuse to integrate the reality of different cultures and backgrounds in the shows.

Much like Black Lightning, I don't think the dark, gritty and on-the-nose nature of Titans would mesh well with the DCW. But I wouldn't be opposed to a cool callout scene like Cisco accidentally vibing into the middle of a villain fight or something.

THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one that can't stand Ortega. I cannot express enough how unnecessary I feel she and her character are, and the actress just isn't bringing it for me. Thus far she could be plucked from the storyline and I still think we'd have a cohesive and engaging story. I really like Quell's character, even moreso knowing her origins. You're so right, she was fighting a losing battle, but I can respect that she wasn't complacent about the detrimental byproducts of her creation. I also liked her intuition about Kovacs in seeing through his tough guy act to the deeply scarred boy beneath. Maybe they related to each other on the level of being two people who made choices with good intentions but reaped unforeseen and dire consequences. I think it's entirely plausible that Quell could be backed up and that her DNA was recovered to clone her again (by some rich weirdo like Bancroft), but what the story would be going forward would be the question. Would she be contented to "run away" with Tak, or would she be hardwired for war?

I feel like this is the new writers first go at giving the supporting characters of the show an actual arc/exposure for the first time. While the show has always given an episode here and there to members of team Flash, they've never had the bandwidth to do so without having Barry front and centre. I'm glad that this Barry-in-jail story arc gives Grant a needed break (being No. 1 on a show that films for this long is very tiring) and I think if the show had always given the supporting members more love these episodes wouldn't seem so jarring to us as an audience. But I personally liked seeing more of what makes Cecile so lovable to Joe, seeing what's been on Harry's mind since arriving, and an inkling as to how Team Flash operated when Barry was still in the Speed Force. Some feel like Team Flash seems inept, but I think that this is very realistic in the sense of this the first foe they've come against where physical meta powers aren't going to fix it. Seasons 1-3 were almost all about how fast Barry could run, but this isn't a problem that super speed is going to fix for him. What I liked most about this episode was Harry pointing out that every *calculated* move that Team Flash is making and every *occurrence* that they're having are not random to DeVoe. Team Flash still haven't figured out that they need to stop operating "as usual" in order to defeat a man that's been studying them for a long time. While they're still in the dark about that, I expect them to fumble and get stuck like they are now. As for Cecile's power, I'm almost certain it's going to be key in taking down DeVoe. One thing I've noticed (and loved) about these new writers is that everything they show eventually means something to the team and the overall plot. I have confidence we'll see more of that in the upcoming episodes. I also miss Wally :(

100% with you on this. I find the OG Takeshi/Will Yun Lee far more engaging than the "sleeved" version. I feel like WYL would have portrayed the stoic outside but tortured inside far better than Kinnamen did. It's like Kinnamen didn't realize that stoicism only works if you can tell a story non-verbally, which I didn't see him do here. Anyhoo, even though Rei is shady, I like the relationship dynamic between her and Tak.

I agree with most that the plot was definitely condensed and the diversity was minimal, but overall I think it was a strong premier. The sad reality is that shows don't get the luxury of slowly unfolding anymore. People's attention spans are shorter than ever, and if they don't grip audiences fast, shows get cancelled (and Fox is notorious for quickly pulling the plug). I liked the intro we got to the Struckers as well as a handful of the mutants. If Bryan Singer continues to be a producer on this, I feel confident that it's going to continue on a good path and possibly get much better. The timeline as to when this show occurs in the X-universe is the most frustrating part of it for me. Between the movies (Old X-Men, New X-Men, Deadpool and Logan) I have no freaking clue where we are and feel like I'd need a masters in quantum physics to figure it out. But I can get past all that if the show not only makes me care about the characters, but also whatever their main mission will be this season...which is yet to be revealed.

LOL, I thought the exact same thing. This sentence means nothing with the crap they've pulled in the past. Even if she does have a confession, I don't have confidence that it won't end up getting erased via time travel again. I'll stay over here with my cautious pessimism.

And to add to that, Nicole's a yaadie like me (translation: Jamaican girl) and that island has got one of the most diverse populations in the world. We just aren't (typically) raised worrying about what colour other people are, especially when we likely have some (or a lot) of that DNA in us too. No, in the majority of the interviews I watched with her where she was asked about Ichabbie getting romantic, she usually just replied saying that it was rare to have a show with two heterosexual leads of the opposite sex that just stayed platonic friends and that she enjoyed that dynamic with Tom. I personally never got the impression that she was against it if the timing and writing was right for it (see Richonne on TWD for how to properly write for and execute a friends-to-lovers storyline near damned perfectly). Everything I felt about the finale has pretty much been said so I won't really add much. Absolutely the WORST 40-odd minutes of television I've ever watched, and that's saying something since I've watched some pretty crappy shows.I don't even know how the actors managed to get through filming it without wretching directly on the script. Anyways, can't wait for Nikki's next endeavor. She's so beautiful and talented and deserves a project that appreciates her efforts.

Based on the comics I never got the sense that most of them were out on the road very long though; especially since they're based out of DC where there was so much mass evacuation/military presence, so I think Rick and Team Fam are in a much better survival position then they are for the most part.

From my understanding, comic Negan didn't believe in brutalizing women and children. He would and could kill women/children if he wanted to, but not by Lucille per se. Comic Negan is someone who liked to play with people, especially those that presented a challenge to him mentally or tactically. As for the moment with Michonne, as someone mentioned upthread, I think Negan acknowledged that Michonne was strong and beautiful but not necessarily a threat. Michonne's appearance is one that could lead many a man to underestimate her. Smaller frame and some muscle wouldn't likely register to someone Negan's size as a threat, but he's never seen her in action (if only Merle & the Govnuh were still alive to school him) nor does he realize how deep those still waters run. No, I agree that he's looking at her (and all the other women) as future harem material at best, worker bees at worst.