Lion

I know this isn't exactly completely about the show, but why would a person need credit to open a checking account? It's definitely never been something I've needed. Is this something new? The only issue I ever encountered once was trying to open an account and then being told that I had to pay a monthly fee to have a checking account unless I kept a $5000 balance. Screw that shit, I was a student waiting tables and needing to deposit cash, or so I figured. But I don't pay to bank. Most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. Honestly, I can't even remember the last time I opened a new bank account. Probably at least 10 years ago. I move a lot but mobile/online banking makes it unnecessary for me to change credit unions anyway.

wuh? That doesn't even make sense. I know unconditional love can seem romantic and all that, but the truth is, there are always conditions. Claire has made conditions with Jamie, he's made conditions with her. Claire's future is super dim if Frank doesn't stay with her. That really is a pretty selfless act on his part, to stay with a woman that he's just been told doesn't really want him. He's angry about it, but that seems pretty reasonable. All of Frank's actions in that scene screamed that he loved her, would support her and the child. I'm pretty sure he even explicitly stated that the child would know him as his own. I think wanting Claire to stopping cheating on him is also pretty reasonable. I just can't see how anything about this scene indicated that Frank was some sort of bad guy. Not a perfect guy, but it's not like Claire or Jamie are perfect. I definitely get not caring for Frank. I find the 20th century stuff a bore, and that includes all the characters there. I'm more drawn to the fantasy/sci-fi and the 18th century stuff is more deeply rooted in fantasy since it's the time traveling element. But as boring as Frank is, it's hard to see him as the bad person. It's all a tragedy, honestly.

I think that's the major problem with the season - general tone deafness. It often seems as though people in the writer's room had some great ideas but no one really stopped to think about the consequences of what these ideas could mean when drawn out to logical conclusions. Everything from the instigation of Bellamy's complete turn around to Pike's villainy to images like how Lexa's and Lincoln's deaths occurred to now this rape scene that they tried to music away is all just complete tone deafness.

I think Samantha Bee has very quickly surpassed John Oliver for me. It's sad to think we lived so long in a world where Samantha Bee wasn't stifled from reaching her potential. I'm not even sure this is her full potential. A few weeks ago, I said that I didn't think she could sustain the sharpness of her routine for more than one night a week. I think she can. I wish she would. Late night comedy covering current events has been suffering a considerable deficit since Colbert and Stewart left Comedy Central. And frankly, they were going stale anyway.

I agree, he probably didn't think it through. But wasn't Lucifer sort of wrong one whether or not Malcolm would really return to Hell? He doesn't really include the possibility that Malcolm could then join any one of the churches where all he has to do is ask for forgiveness and POOF all the bad things he's done is simply wiped clean and heaven awaits.

I actually assumed he was lying, though I completely forgot that Lucifer doesn't do the lying thing. Is angel decency comic book canon?

You might have more questions after knowing.

I know we all correctly guessed that it was a Chloe specific mortality issue, but I really love how it unfolded. There was a sort of tension to it. When Malcolm didn't react to the devil's true face, I groaned a bit because if Lucifer bled, we'd still be wondering if he's only mortal when it's those who have been touched by the supernatural. Then Malcolm left and I was all 'noooooo, we need answers on this!'. Then Luci was shot and awoke uninjured and for the last 10-15 minutes I kept expecting him to unbutton his shirt and reveal that he'd actually started wearing kevlar or something. I don't think I believed he was really running that knife deeply into his skin until the very end, when it was shocked to see the blood at Chloe's. We have an answer, but also still more questions. Love it! I laughed so hard when Amenadiel's wings, ahem, 'released'. It was such a brilliantly, amazingly dirty visual to indicate he achieved orgasm.

I'm confused about the blue men. They've been referred to both as messengers and as the monkeys. Are these the same things? Are the blue people the army of the 12 monkeys? Or are they messengers? Did we learn this in the episode?

Well, the internet already has plenty of reason to note that the showrunners don't seem to think rape against men is real. I mean, the porn music tells us this. However, those who deny that rape happened are actually the ones claiming that a lack of expressed trauma from Murphy is the reason it's not rape.

There is no right way to feel trauma. There is no right amount of trauma. It's not somehow less rape if it didn't hurt or it doesn't emotionally bother you afterward. Accurately applying the word rape to this scene isn't suggesting that Murphy is going to have to feel a certain way. It is really too bad that they chose to film this scene with the bow chicka wow wow music as this show could have maybe found it's footing again by giving weight and seriousness to male victims of sexual assault. Too often men who are raped are treated as though what happened to them isn't worthy of care, dignity, humanity or concern. This show had a chance to earn a lot of good will and totally blew it. Again.

Someone provided this link in another thread, but I thought this was interesting and pretty cool:

Randall's brand and now the scar from it's removal (as well as the scars from the flogging) will be covered most of the time by a shirt. This isn't true of the hands. You have to have make up and/or cgi on top of a tiny little spot on the hand at all times. Too much output for something that isn't hugely important and can be transferred to another object as a visual memory they have of one another. They'll have enough to deal with with the scars already on Jamie's broken hand.

What would be the point in hiding the pearls? At least, on her body and the things she brought with her? She put aside the ring, why wouldn't they have also included the pearls among the things she set aside/hid from Frank? It would have been quite easy to show her with some sort of small handbag that was hidden in the dresses that she pulls out when she's undressed at the hospital, but they chose not to. Maybe they will introduce the idea of communicating through time via bank safety deposit boxes or hidden caches and the pearls will magically appear in that location and somehow still in perfect condition after 200+ years. It's almost illogical, but I'd have an easier time accepting 200 year old pearls in good condition over Claire somehow having the pearls all along even though they went out of their way to show and tell what she did keep with her.

I'm more concerned about the missing pearls. The carved initials doesn't have much plot significance, tbh. It happens, it's mentioned several times after, but it really only serves as reminders for one another and the ring(s) can serve that function just as easily. The pearls had plot significance, iirc, as they aided Bree in her arrival at Lallybroch. My mind is blanking on specifics right now, but I know they also pop up elsewhere throughout the book. I guess the gem-less ring can work just as well, though I'm going to miss the pearls.

Hmm, I can think of a couple. But maybe the gem? The ring Claire frantically searches for and then later hides away is missing the gem. Eventually the series will start exploring how the stones work and gems will be relevant. I was excited to see that introduced already, even if it's sort of a head scratcher right now for those who haven't read the books.

My thoughts on Frank...I didn't care for Frank in the books, but it's really because I didn't care for much of the 20th century stuff in general. I got super sucked into the fantasy aspect of the story, and 18th century plot just seemed way more fantasy than boring old 20th century. I'm pretty much bored with every charcter that exists in the the mid 1900's. Brianna, Roger...super yawn fest. Then suddenly they went through the rocks and OMG THEY ROCK! I probably would have felt that way about Frank as well. I like what the show has done with Frank. He's a more rounded, three dimensional character. He adds something significant to the story. But I still felt a bit of yawn when the story is in the 1940s.

Thank you! With credit, I've more reached a space where I just don't care about my credit score anymore. It does help that I put a 'hold' on my credit so that I must go through an extra step when I apply for anything (to be honest, this feature sucks and rarely works). Though when I really think about it, I think I might just live with a lot of unexamined anxiety. Recently, someone I am acquainted with had cause to meet my maternal grandparents. My worry about the situation wasn't transportation, or what to serve for lunch, or even whether or not my racist, misogynist white grandfather would say something racist or misogynist. It was the fact that now this acquaintance would know my mother's maiden name and I started to fret over whether or not she also knew my birthday. It's totally irrational paranoid thinking to go down that route with these things, but it's hard to help. And I don't mean to make this a pity party for myself at all. I mostly want to be clear that this thing that happened to me has happened to so many people. It's almost stupidly easy to intentionally screw with someone's credit. That coupled with random unintentionally errors that plague the credit reporting industry makes me furious that it's used to prevent so many people from gainful employment.

I couldn't stop laughing after the part where the newscaster called him Jon Stewart. No idea how Oliver kept a straight face with that one. About personal vendettas and credit companies. They can be mounted by anyone, not just people working at the credit reporting companies. Actually, it would probably be harder for a TransUnion/Experian/Equifax employee to do it because they'd be under more scrutiny. However, nearly everyone I come into more than casual contact with has the ability to screw me over if I piss them off. It's happened before. An ex got mad that she was turned into an ex, had my social security number (because those things are never ever secure considering they need to be put on every document imaginable), applied for a shit ton of credit, used it, then didn't pay. I knew it was her, she'd even used her own mailing address for some of the stuff. But there was pretty much no way for me to prove it in a court of law. I spent years trying to get that cleared up without having to drain my entire savings. My story isn't even an unusual one. In the course of this happening and discussing it with those around me, so many of the people I knew came forward with their own stories of how so-and-so sought revenge by fucking with their credit. I'm lucky in that I have the ability to be choosey, but I also give the finger to things like employers that require credit checks for jobs. I don't work for ridiculously dumb or discriminatory people.

Well I'm glad you're starting to understand things. Hopefully you'll look a little bit further and think even a little critically about this. I mean, based on a previous deleted comment of yours, you already seem to sort of understand that threat of violence causes lots of issues with consent though the fact that you think rape only occurs when a knife is involved is almost medieval. Did Murphy consent to torture just because he sat down on a chair? Did Abby truly consent to being zombiefied just because the knife was slid across Raven's wrists rather than her own? Things like threats of life, violence, shaming, etc remove the capacity to consent. In Murphy's case, he needs to have sex with Ontari in order to survive. He even explicitly stated this. The threat to his life has effectively removed any freedom to consent.

That's a really good observation, AudienceofOne. Didn't even notice that until you brought it up, and I'm wondering if the director noticed it since Murphy's scene is filmed in such contradiction to what's actually happening. Saying this is your personal opinion is a bit like me saying "it's my personal opinion that the word dance means to lie down on a surface commonly called a bed and to shut one's eyes and fall into a state that is the opposite of awake. I apologize for offending anyone with my personal opinion." You're just making up a random definition of a word and calling that an opinion, and you're choosing to do this with a word and action where being flippant is incredibly insensitive. Based on Murphy's history, we have a pretty good idea of how he will play things. Hint: it's the way that keeps him alive.

No, he did not. Looking at someone isn't consent. Becoming aroused isn't consent. The lack of a knife isn't consent. This isn't very complicated. I understand it can be confusing for people who don't understand the very simple definition of rape. After all, the show made the horrible decision of filming the scene in a way that completely conflicted with the dialogue. They made it look and sound like some sort of fun sex game. But it actually wasn't. Murphy didn't want to have sex with her and only agreed to because he wanted to survive. A preference to remain alive isn't fucking consent.

Gah. My partner and I ended up binge watching the entire first season today because why not. Right after, we rewatched this episode. The gut punch of Claire breaking down on the roadway hit much harder immediately after watching her and Jamie sailing off together. The first time I watched that scene, I barely had an itchy throat. This second time, I filled a bath with my tears. All of her loved ones in the 18th century are just gone. It's so final, in the blink of an eye. I mean, I know it's not final obviously since she goes back in 20 years. But it's really terrible to realize that everyone you knew and love is literally dead and dust in that moment. I think Catriona sold is so well. All sorts of feels and hurts going on in my house.

Call to arms? Was just trying to figure out what the heck you were talking about. I forget sometimes who is better left ignored. My mistake.

Who's calling for a pass on Bellamy?