sockii

Sorry, deleting, didn't see the mods had shut the topic down.

I really liked it, definitely the best episode so far and also the most like classic Law & Order in style and structure (with a touch of Trial by Jury as well, I thought). The plot kept me guessing and I too think it did a good job of tackling controversial subjects without being either preachy or sensationalist. The main characters are starting to come into their own, too, and making for an interesting team. The only one I'm not really keen on yet at all is Anna; she's a little too cardboard pretty assistant, like they want her to be a Claire or Abbie and I don't see any personality there yet for it (the next episode looks like it focuses more on her, so, I guess that will be the test for me. Overall this show has me excited right now. It satisfies that jones I get for a good police/legal procedural like L&O, and is certainly outshining the current state of SVU in the writing department.

Overall I am intrigued by the first two episodes, especially this second one. It hit a lot of the notes I miss from original L&O (and earlier seasons of SVU), with more of an emphasis on legal maneuvering, twisty plots, and courtroom drama mixed with investigation. I want to see the new characters more developed but I really enjoy the idea of Peter as Ben Stone's son and I just LOVED seeing Robinette again. I really hope we see more courtroom battles between the son and the former-associate-of-the-father. Yes, please. And I found Antonio more interesting here than on PD, sort of made me think more of Seda's role as Falsone on Homicide. I sometimes watch PD but it's the only other Chicago franchise I'm into. I don't mind a level of crossover with it, in fact I like the idea of the SA's special investigators having to clean up the messes created by Voight's unit. It sort of showcases some of the problems there, just like the mothership could have drama between the DA's office and how the detectives sometimes operated.

Me too. As much as I can objectively know those episodes are bad, cheesy and over the top, they are still fun and (for the most part) rewatchable. How can you hate on "Wildlife", for instance, when it gave us the monkey in the basketball? I even enjoy "Lunacy" for Munch and the moon landing conspiracy bits. The bad episodes now are just boring, frustrating, and tedious. There have literally only been 2 episodes this season I have the slightest desire to rewatch at all (Making a Rapist and Broken Rhymes, mostly for the better use of Fin in them). I was glad to see WL leave after seasons 16 and 17, but I feel like it's been a monkey's paw kind of bargain. Lately watching the show has felt more like a chore than something to look forward to at all. (I'm still not sure I'd list this episode as worse than Intimidation Game, however. But it was actually bad in some similar ways.) I see this even worse in parts of Tumblr fandom, where, to their minds, the show didn't start getting "good" until the last few seasons. They rant and dismiss the early seasons entirely just because, for instance, a character uses a word we now (rightly) consider a slur but 17 years ago that wasn't necessarily the case. They have no appreciation for looking at the show from the point of view of "look how far we've come in acknowledging things like trans identity, male victims of rape, healthy kinks" etc. All they hear is someone use the term "he-she" and therefore seasons 1-whenever are "problematic", not worth watching. Sigh. Sorry for the sidetrack...But I'd rather a show that's occasionally dated in its use of language and attitudes than a constant SJW soapbox with no likeable characters, no interesting and different storylines, no actual drama to keep things engaging. And honestly I feel like there is plenty they should be complaining about with the current show instead, particularly with how Fin is treated, or generally ignored/ordered around when he's only second to Benson in seniority by ONE YEAR at the 16th. That's offensive to me, particularly in a case/episode such as this one where he absolutely should have taken the lead, and would have been better equipped to relate to Captain Williams.

Well, so much for that Fin-centeric episode exploring his past with the Rangers, eh? /sarcasm

I just felt having be Carisi who was bullied didn't really fit—not as far as the story went in the episode, trying to draw parallels, and as something I can buy as part of his backstory as a character. I just don't see it working in a way that meshes with the Carisi who first joined the 16th in season 16. And yes, I thought of Legacy immediately as well (it's one of my all time favorites, no surprise, as a Munch fan)...curious how that was also about someone being "pushed through a plate glass window"...and that little girl died from the injuries. Amazing how Carisi doesn't even seem to have a single visible scar from such an incident? (And the Munch story parallel worked so much better to me because that was used to explain why he was the one to come to suspect the mother of abuse.) I agree with all of the above. I'm really hoping they give Ice more to work with in next week's episodes. I've enjoyed the few this season where the writers finally gave him some actual importance to an episode (Making a Rapist and Broken Rhymes) but it really feels like the rest of the time he's completely phoning it in...and I don't blame him with so little to work with (and not having someone good to consistently work off of. Sigh. I don't need to mention how much I miss Munch yet again...) I also wonder if we're ever going to hear what happened with Ken & Alejandro's baby? That poor surrogate has been pregnant for near about a year at this point unless we're just supposed to assume the kid's been born and no one bothers to ever ask Fin about it... And feh, I come here mostly to complain and wonder what happened to my show. But at least snark is welcome here instead of other forums where you can't complain about MH's acting and apparent ego without being accused of being a misogynist....

I agree with some that overall this was a better episode than we've seen for a while—though still quite a ways away from being a great one. But it actually managed to keep my interest for the full hour, which is something most episodes this season hasn't managed. Granted, maybe it's because the episode eerily seemed quite similar to last season's Transgender Bridge in many ways: a bullying incident where 1) the initial injuries end up leading to tragic, unexpected death and 2) when the bully ends up becoming at least partially sympathetic because of his own issues/being pressured into his actions. Also, the weird reversal of the scene in TG where Rollins was schooling Carisi about sensitivity in trans issues; now we get Carisi schooling Rollins about why women can't always escape an abusive spouse. (I hated that scene; once again we have Rollins as nothing but a sanctimonious mombot now that she has Jesse and forgetting everything her experience and training should have taught her?) Fin actually got some lines and moments, yay, but I hated how he still ends up being treated as the tag along. "Call Rollins and have her bring Fin." What, really? He's the most senior detective in the squad and yet is treated like an inferior to Rollins and Carisi. Can we please hope for that to change when he finally becomes sergeant? (Though I fear that will mean he gets shoved further into the background and desk duty like they did to Munch.) ...And I can already see parts of the fandom turning Carisi into more of their favorite poor woobie than ever before. I'm sorry but I fail to see how his having being bullied translated into him being so understanding of the situation that family was under the abusive father's control? That was...awkward and didn't make sense to me. I would have preferred it if maybe he saw a similar situation in, if not his immediate nuclear family, then part of his extended one (c'mon, big Italian family, that would have been easy to set up.)

Abusive people tend to seek out or be attracted to those with low self esteem and/or other issues (addiction, being victims of childhood abuse), those who are therefore easy to manipulate and keep under their control, to convince that they don't "deserve any better". Maybe they can even end up feeling like a bit of a martyr for their suffering (and because then, to their kids, they are the "good parent", the one who doesn't directly abuse (even if staying in the situation leaves them open to further abuse)). It all feeds into the cycle, unfortunately.

I was just coming over here to say the Homicide crossovers are my favorites...funny that's a sentiment shared by the last two posters! Two very different casts that somehow blended together in those episodes in such interesting & entertaining ways. I could watch Briscoe and Munch trading barbs for hours on end. (I love that the HLotS DVD set has the crossovers complete on them). It's hard for me to think of least favorites when there are a lot of episodes that just left me feeling "meh", especially post-Briscoe. Though one moment that just will forever make me go WTF is Serena's "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" in "Ain't No Love". Like...goodbye, Serena, but to just pull that non sequitur out in the middle of that conversation was the worst.

Going back to this post to add another comment—besides the cringeworthy acting in those scenes from Mariska (which I totally agree with you about), that scene in the car just boggled my mind. Like...here they are, dealing with a case of a middle aged woman being inappropriate with a teenage boy. And Benson thinks it's appropriate to be alone in a car with that woman's son, having such an intense and almost intimate conversation? She really should know better than that after all of these years. I can't imagine that would be allowable. I mean, remember in the episode "Doubt" when Stabler got in serious trouble with a female rape victim? Because he took her home when that was against policy, walked her up the stairs to her apartment, and then she accused him of being inappropriate with her? It's horribly sloppy writing, and Benson is just about the worst CO that SVU could have at this point.

"Conned" from Season 11, yep. A few of us have been talking elsewhere about the similarities (though I liked that episode a lot more for how it utilized the full cast, and had the subplot of Fin & Ken's relationship.)

I was bored. Compared to previous "landmark" episodes like "Authority" and "Manhattan Vigil" (which I liked despite the repurposing of Season 1 footage)? It only showcased to me how far the show has fallen and become little more than a vanity project for Mariska.

It's possible, but it's also not a simple thing of just having another person take note and tell you to take it easy with the vino. In fact to imply that making that change happened because of Tucker's one-time urging instead of Olivia taking a hard look at her actions, her mother's alcoholism, and the likelihood she could be headed down that same route WAS lazy and unrealistic writing, IMHO. I would have liked to have seen at least some acknowledgement of what was going on, from Olivia herself, before the plotline was completely dropped.

I feel like the show has been suffering from cast budget limitations for a long time, not just the last 2 Amaro seasons. Like, at least going back to s13 and when it seemed like they couldn't ever afford to have Florek and Belzer in the same episode together, if not before then. It's funny because for a while I wanted to see them refocus on the core crew left this season. But now it's painfully obvious how much they need some fresh blood and it feels like both a budgetary limitation and Hagarty insisting that Benson be front and center in all episodes, no matter how unrealistic that may be for a command lieutenant. (I mean, hello, just compare Benson today to the position Van Buren had in the mothership. It makes no sense beyond actor ego for Benson to be constantly out in the field at this point.)

Neither do I, so I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. I get that he's somehow traditionally attractive but to my eyes he's just bland and kind of doughy-looking. I think I'd enjoy him character-wise with a more interesting partner or counter-part; someone who might play up his quirkiness instead of making him the heart of a bunch of ugly shipping wars and swooning on social media every time his lips quiver or he bares a forearm. (I would love to have seen Munch & him interacting, Munch probably goofing on him much the way he did with Cassidy in season 1...)

For me Season 2 is my absolute favorite. I'm a Munch & Fin fan, first and foremost, so I loved the development of their partnership through that season especially (early conflicting points of view and then finally starting to really gel as partners by the time we get to "Manhunt"). Season 5 is actually probably my second favorite after that; it has a number of episodes I really love (Painless, Careless, Loss, Abomination) and while the plots are getting twistier, they still aren't at the ridiculous point yet and many are quite thought-provoking. Also, I liked the initial conflict and transition from Cabot to Novak (who is my favorite ADA, even if not part of my favorite era). But overall seasons 1-5 are the golden years for me, where it really feels like the focus is more on the "squad" doing their job as a unit than the Elliot & Olivia will-they-won't-they drama hour (that begins as soon as Elliot announces he's separated.) By seasons 6 & 7 we're already seeing Fin and especially Munch pushed more into the background for the E/O drama, 8 was mostly ridiculous with Olivia being "undercover", and don't get me started on season 9 with Lake and the cast bloat of that year. 10-12 are mostly crack with a few sporadic highlights. From the Leight years I only really enjoy and rewatch season 13; it was a refreshing restart, in a lot of ways, with some interesting cases again and the transition of bringing Amaro and Rollins into the unit. But even by 14 it starts really going downhill again for me and I find a lot of season 15-17 watch-once-and-done for me. I don't need Olivia's personal drama, hated the William Lewis torture hour, and (ducking and hiding) I still don't quite get the overwhelming fanaticism for Barba/Esparza that's taken over a huge chunk of the show's fandom. I like Barba ~okay~, but I still miss Novak and Cabot. Yes, I know that makes me a weirdo or something.

For me this was the best episode of the season, so far. First time in ages I actually recognized the Olivia Benson I used to love. Nice use of the entire squad working the case—again, that's something that's been a rarity for far too long. And no personal drama in the background or foreground, either. And continuing the best thing about season 18 so far for me: not forgetting that Fin is there and actually using him for more than a couple reaction shots and snarky comments.

Tucker left IAB at the end of last season to join the hostage negotiation team. As far as the age thing, we don't know what Tucker's age is supposed to be but the actor who plays him is 56; Benson is supposed to be 48 (Mariska is 52), that's hardly a noteworthy age difference.

Anyone who suffers through NBC's Olympics coverage knows that there are Olympians with babies. Because if you're a female American Olympian athlete the first thing NBC is going to harp on is how so-and-so is a MOM and doing this FOR HER CHILDREN and to be a GREAT ROLE MODEL for her KIDS as that's the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IN A WOMAN'S LIFE, don't you know. (Sorry, somewhat bitter person here who is way too sensitive to these things.)

I totally agree that Kim is a sociopath. And from my (unfortunate) personal experience with having one of those in my family, sociopaths can be great at faking/claiming to have other illnesses if it suits their purposes/makes them seem more sympathetic. Of course, I don't have much faith in the writers being that clever. I don't know if that one scene could be taken as Tuckson "fizzling out" but I thought the dialog transition there was hilariously bad...Secretly a hooker/Every relationship has secrets/Oh hey so how are things with Tucker?

I would be all on board a spin-off about Munch's day care center, where he obviously babysits Noah and Jesse and all the other precinct kids while teaching them the truth about JFK, the moon landing and protecting your civil liberties.

I'm actually more okay if this is the last we see of Munch on SVU than I was after the actual retirement episode, because that last scene of him leaving his desk in "Wonderland Story" wrecks me it's so sad, or in "Spring Awakening" as much as I enjoyed his scene with Nick in that. Because it made me happy here to see that he's apparently content with his life now, whatever that may involve (though I wish we had some hints of that, then again I don't trust these writers for much, so...better to leave it vague perhaps?) I don't know, I have a LOT of Munch feels because he's my favorite character, was so all the way back to Homicide. I miss him terribly on the show regularly but I'll take this happy/sad goodbye over the previous ones we've gotten. And those both seemed pretty final at the time, so maybe there's still hope for another (better?) appearance in the future, especially with a new crew running things?

After all of that hype I really, really was expecting more Munch :( I was so disappointed with how little we got, although I did like how it was basically Fin coordinating with bringing Munch into the case, and having him slip into things as if it were no big deal. (I would have been more annoyed if they made it seem like he had no contact with anyone at the old unit after retiring, after all, isn't he supposed to be working at the DA's office now as a Special Investigator?) Still...so badly wanted at least one good bit of banter between Munch & Fin like the old days. But the babysitting scene was too adorable for words. I've sort of head-canoned for ages that Munch would absolutely want to spend time with Noah, teaching him all of his conspiracy theories, so I genuinely squealed in delight to have that confirmed.

Munch is coming back! Even if just for one episode! http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/22/law-order-svu-richard-belzer-munch-returning I can't even begin to express how happy this makes me.

In my dream universe, Season 18 would see more Finn (let him change his mind and take the Sergeant's exam, especially if Dodds Jr is leaving), more of Robert Sean Leonard's ADA, and please just at least a guest appearance or two from Munch? Whatever happened to the promise we'd still see him from time to time as a Special Investigator in the DA's office? That never happened, and SVU just isn't the same for me without him. Also I just think Carisi & Munch in the same scene could be hilarious.