KimberStormer

Yeah, it was especially strong on TWOP because boards-on-boards, while a marvelous tool for keeping flame wars from getting out of hand, had a way of stifling disagreement. I mean you could say "I disagree." But if you said "You're thinking that because Miss Alli said it in her recap" would be pretty much an instant ban. Recapper-as-driver-of-the-narrative was very pronounced but also impossible to discuss. I always doubt my memory so I searched for "Miss Alli Parvati" and the first result was Parv's Cook Islands vote-out episode: Also contains some drooling over Yul's abs and cleaned-up jury Penner and Wing Chung naming "Adam and Parvati the fucking useless losers" because, get this, they didn't have the Tyler Perry idol, which apparently means Yul is a superior Survivor player??? So I'm not making it up, except the part where Miss Alli finally gives Parv some respect, because actually she quit to somehow go be a respected pop culture critic halfway through Micronesia. In her last recap she jokes that Parvati is 'crab bait'. Intersectional! Ummmmm on topic, I wish Malcolm hadn't played this season. It wasn't any good for him. I bet he could have come back and Boston Robbed it if he'd had a couple years to rest and think.

Sounds like you've never seen/heard Queen for a Day. It was the worst thing ever.

Not ideal of course, but it's a good point. I feel like I can at least see the distinction between the three of them more, why they might think people would vote for them over the others. Like Amanda didn't vote out Ozzy and betray the alliance, Cirie did vote for Amanda at one point, etc. But that's probably more editing and many years of hindsight talking. It seems like Dom and Wendell are such a unit this season, it's hard to distinguish them except purely by personal preference, like how I like them both a lot but I have a crush on Wendell. I can't really say "well Wendell did X, which Dom wasn't involved in", you know? I imagine all these things will be more clear after the finale!

In some ways I think if Laurel picks Donathan (or vice versa) and Dom and Wendell have to fight it out, it's only going to help whichever of the two wins the fire making challenge. The one who loses is a guaranteed vote for the one who wins. They obviously adore each other, and if they got to the finals without voting each other out?? The bromance would reach epic levels. It certainly wouldn't help Laurel. She can't beat either one. If it gets to that point she lost long ago. Although tbh I might be tempted (as a Survivor nerd) to not vote for Dom or Wendell if they got to the F4 together: that's not playing to win, either. It's not a team game. Honestly, I wish there was more discussion of that fact, that "Dom and Wendell" is not a thing. "Dom and Wendell" can't win. Only Dom, or only Wendell. They're not really playing that great if they're not keeping that fact in mind.

I went back and read the Parvati thread on TWOP once upon a time. They had one big thread for all three of her appearances. It was a fascinating read. First it was like, "She's the one on the white tribe that I like. Her and Penner." Then shaded into "This is the worst human that has ever been, the sluttiest bitch ever [people were less woke back then] who dared to not be on a tribe with my precious cinnamon roll Aitus, and who furthermore said something mean about my darling Jonathan" with some "I hope her thumb gets infected" and the standard "ding dong the witch is dead" comments when she was voted out. Then Micronesia starts and it's "Who wanted her back? I'm only watching this stupid season to see her lose" and "WHYYY GODDD DID JONNY FAIRPLAY GIVE UP WHY COULDN'T IT BE HER" etc. With the Ozzy blindside it was like "well...good, but I still hate her" and assorted grumbling until the end. I remember very clealry one post which was simply: "......Winner's........edit?????" around the early merge. There were definitely people saying she was playing a great game. But for the most part people were just sort of keeping their smoldering ashes of hate in little jars, aided and abetted by Miss Alli who never gave Parvati one minute of respect the entire season long, basically because she didn't do the Obviously Correct thing and immediately forfeit Cook Islands to the Aitu 4 out of respect for their obvious superiority as human beings. More grumbling, more wailing when she didn't get voted out early in HvV, a lot of dark muttering about how she blew a cameraman or something to "tell her about Russell" because obviously Russell had magic powers or whatever this top secret information was supposed to mean. But finally when she pulled off the double idol play, at last the worm turned. Even Miss Alli had to admit that was something, albeit very begrudgingly. Some "you know, I always actually liked Parvati and I never understood why she got so much hate," and finally by the end several people saying she was robbed. It can take a lot to overcome a bad impression, especially going up against the most beloved groups ever on the show...even though it took far less time for people to fall out of love with a member of that very group. She needed two near-perfect games to change the majority's minds. Even though to me she never did anything wrong in the first place.

They never really show anyone building personal relationships with anybody. We feel that way every season with someone's social game.

They tried cutting down the food rations this season and it changed nothing, right?

I would say the important things for me would be: Always have a game (and you have to play?) More interesting games No idols outside of Ghost Island.

Surely he was saying "bring me to F3 or I vote for Dom", yeah?

I definitely think it's too late for Laurel or Sebastian to make their move, but I'm also wondering if it's getting to be too late for Domenick and Wendell to? If they bring each other to the end, well, that is a huge mistake on both their parts. Neither one should want to sit next to the other. They both have idols. And there is the stupid fucking fire challenge at 4, so the last time they can vote each other out is 5...which means whichever of them wins immunity kind of gets the other out by default? (Or do the idols work at 5 still???? in which case, jeez.) I wouldn't want to be in that position against the other strongest challenge competitor in the game, so if I were them I would sure be thinking about moving ASAP. They have to blindside very carefully because they both have idols, and it seems to me like if you're both trying to blindside the other at the same time it's likely to not work out for you, so you want to try to move before the other, which means moving a little early... Tony, for all I don't like his game, knew he needed to move "too early" to keep the momentum in his favor. Do these two? (Of course Tony had the Tyler Perry idol so it didn't really matter what he did, if his early moves backfired, he was always safe...) It's amazing how Survivor has ruined what used to be the most exciting challenge of all, the final immunity challenge. When it was F2 it was a fascinating drama, first who would win and then would they pick the right person? Then it was F3 and no more did things hang on one person winning and one person making the decision, now it was just another vote. And now winning final immunity is a disaster, you get nothing except the hate of the two people you choose to make fire. It's hard for me to find the energy to work out votes and stuff this season, because it seems pointless. In like Cambodia I was like "OK KELLEY COULD WIN IF THE VOTE GOES A, B, C, AND STEPHEN COULD WIN IF IT GOES X, Y, Z" and I would sit and think it out for like everybody but Keith. (My working out why Monica's floating the women's alliance was a good idea, based on projecting the vote out four tribals down the line, was really really fun.) But this one, I get tired of it before I even begin, it just seems pointless and I don't care. I've been thinking a lot about why I liked One World but find this season a bit boring. I might think about it in the past seasons thread if I have time.

You and me both, sister. I don't find them annoying either; I find everybody else annoying, for not going against them. When Wendell was effortlessly sliding his last ladder rung into place and climbing up to the puzzle I said, "Wendell I love you and I want you to win, but I want you to have to work harder at it." I want people to fight and play hard and give us a show. Even if it means my favorite loses, I'd rather see a good hard-fought game than a steamroller. (Almost always, and I might post in the past seasons thread about this later.) Donathan was awful today, but at least he, I don't know, did something. Not like Laurel, who may finally replace China Denise as my go-to example of do-nothing chickenshit Survivor. I guess Laurel doesn't sullenly announce to the cameras, to herself, and to the other players that she knows she's going to lose every five minutes while doing absolutely nothing, like Denise did, so I suppose Denise is still the gold standard there. I did enjoy the reward challenge, and I do take them at their word that they were pretty spent after it; it does seem to explain the mind fog that seemed to take over so many people today. When Sebastian seems to be one of the most clear-headed among you something is truly afoot! Anyway, not much to talk about, because nothing happened, as usual. Kellyn's final words were just fine, but I can't excuse her going full Judy Garland on her way out. Her hair looked nice at tribal though! So accurate it is painful. I would watch! Also I'm looking forward to seeing Wendell's girlfriend with the birthday at the finale...what's she got that I don't got, Wendell?? Perhaps I'll understand when I see her. I think this is very very accurate. In Boston Rob's case, for example, it was so calculated, deliberate, and artificial that it drove me up the wall (surely it was as obvious to them out there as it was to us?) but a lot of the time it's just because the kingpin is the social hub of the tribe. True of Kim Spradlin, true of Todd (despite all the Todd haters who think all he did was smarm at FTC, nobody had any relationship with Amanda, everyone did with Todd), true of many a Survivor winner. Also left your bit about Laurel because I feel the same way. It may seem unfair to single out Laurel for my vitriol when Angela and Sebastian (maybe until tonight?) are just as useless, but I think Laurel's had 100% clear and easy shots to make the moves and fails to do it every time, and that is also the narrative she's getting in the edit, the "I have a great chance to make a move tonight and I have decided not to!" edit. I can't help but be annoyed at people like that. You know me, I loved Ciera the most in Cambodia, she spoke to my soul.

I was thinking something like this: But watching and recapping a season with someone who's never seen it before has always been something I've wanted to do tbh! I need to find a willing guinea pig.

It sounds like fun, but if it were me, it would be more fun if there were two co-bloggers, one who has never seen these seasons before and is going in totally blind!

I don't see that at all. She is a very boring interview as well as a boring non-playing coattail rider. What would they want her back for? That's another thing about the always-play-to-win thing, it also makes it more likely that you'll come back for another try if you lose. Production loves a big move, that's why Jeff is always trying to get people to believe you have to make them to win.

I mean sure, but this is Survivor Nihilism. Yeah, they edit it, so we can't know the truth, and can't say anything about what happens out there, at all. For all we know, Laurel is getting told what to do by the Fijan shark god Dakuwaqa, who is giving infallible advice, and it's just edited out. Accepted. But this epistemological stance is pretty boring. I prefer to call it like I see it, simply because that's the only way we can call it, and have something to discuss and debate every week, which is a true delight in my life. I don't really care about what's not on TV. I've always thought/said that the different prizes for different non-winning placements is bad for the game. Honestly, I don't think it really effects people's thinking in reality, but if it were me, everyone, pre- or post-merge would get a flat fee and the winner's million would be on top of that. Francesca should get the same money as Ozzy: loser money. Playing for one more tribal is a scourge, playing for FTC is a disgrace, everyone should be playing to win and only to win. That's my opinion!

Ah the family visit where everyone's marriage is deeply unhealthy and every brother and sister must be Lannisters. I suppose it depends on what you're playing for. In my opinion, the only thing to play for is to win. If you're playing to win, then a 1% chance to make it to the end with a 30% chance to win there is better than a 100% chance to get to the end and a 0% chance to win. Why get to the finals? Why even bother? If you don't want to win, why not go get yourself the ultimate Reward, a trip to Ponderosa, where you can eat and be happy and read books and listen to music and you still have some function in the game because you get to vote? Every season people say stuff like this and I find it a bizarre understanding of the game to say if you flip you're now suddenly forced to be a passive nonentity along for the ride who does whatever the alliance you flipped to say, so now you're 6th. Especially if there's two of you. Who gives a fuck what people offer you? They're not offering shit, you are. You can do the favors, not them. You're a subject, not an object. You don't stop playing after you make one move. You keep playing. So here's a path: you vote out Wendell this time, Chelsea next time (perhaps flush Dom's idol), then Kellyn, then Dom, then Sebastian and Angela make fire for fourth because this is stupid fake Give-Ben-A-Million-For-No-Reason Survivor. Difficult and risky? Of course. Maybe Dom will get back together with Kellyn and the Naviti girls to vote you out. Well, that's your entire task in the game of Survivor, to get people to vote with you instead of agaisnt you. Don't cry about it to me. Go do it. Maybe you'll fail. Better to fail while trying to win than to fail anyway after not trying to win. People like Laurel, or Sherri in Caramoan, or whoever, think there's an argument to be made that "Well I was on the losing tribe and I had to do something to not get voted out so I attached myself to the power players I'm sitting next to, I did what I had to do" but that is not, and never will be, a winning argument. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever. All you're saying is you were the pawn who let the winner ruin everyone else's game, out of self-interest that is both naked and also totally pointless because, again, getting to the end without trying to win is literally nothing but being miserable for longer for no reason. If you're Amanda or whoever, and have played the best game you can and you don't win, well, that's not so bad. But to be a passive coattail rider just for the privilege of getting insulted by the jury is nothing I would want to do. Sure but who cares about trust really? I always think trust is overrated on Survivor. If they need you you don't need to trust them. Make them need you. I always liked that part, because it gave the finale a sense of scale to me. Oh yeah, they really have been out here for a long time, and wow, they made it through a lot of votes!

As usual, you'll never go broke betting on the boringest outcome in Survivor. Sure, you'll lose a few, but that's how odds work -- it's certainly in your favor over the long run. I don't mind the tears at all, but the new style of Jeff's questioning, "What does this meeeeaaaannn, loved one I call overly familiarly by their first name?" to every. single. person is driving me up the wall. I find myself getting out a pencil and paper and doodling because it's so boring, like I'm at a meeting at work. If there is one challenge I would certainly throw on Survivor, it's this one, but it's perfect for someone like Sebastian to win, since it doesn't matter what he does one way or another -- his game is hopeless and he can neither help nor hinder it. Wow, Angela and her daughter are beautiful. Kellyn's still putting in all the work to be as obnoxious as possible, but as someone with no power and not much more chance than Sebastian at winning the game her efforts come to naught; she's only somewhat annoying, and mostly irrelevantly meh. Laurel is your classic China Denise, she will never make a move (even though she's in a much better position than Denise since she has Donathan with her). Yes, absoutely true that she'd have a harder road getting to the end with the Naviti girls. Who cares? She would have a chance to win! Some chance is better than no chance, and with Dom and Wendell she has no chance. It doesn't matter if you get to the end unless you can win when you get there! I'd rather hang out in Ponderosa than get to FTC for no reason at all. My thoughts exactly! My only thought is Donathan was trying to flush the idol. However, there is a much better way to do that: vote for Wendell. He plays his idol: fine, now Chelsea is out. He doesn't play his idol: fine, now he's out. Win win. Dominick and Sebastian have nowhere to go. They will work with you next time, they have no choice. Laurel and Donathan, as a pair, can flip however they want next time. Sure Dom has his idol, but it would be five to two, they could split the vote. Jeff has a soft spot for Our Troops and has ever since Rudy in season 1. (After all he just threw the game to one last season.) Probably Angela's daughter's unusual frankness helped too. I liked Chelsea's goodbye to Wendell, "Good battle, sir." She's cool. If there's a Fan Favorite Sierra Dawn Thomas memorial spot in the next returnee season, she would make a solid pick, better than Sierra herself I'd say.

Caramoan was probably the worst (except for Redemption Island of course, a season with only two people in it and one of them Phillip), when Andrea was voted out, with three episodes and six people left to go, there was literally nobody else it could possibly be than Cochran. And it didn't have to be that way -- they could have given something other than the Worst Edit Ever Given to Brenda, featured Erik more so his elimination could have been shocking instead of meh. I know Sherri was a useless goat and Dawn too awful of an Ox for them to really work with, and Eddie is my personal choice for The Single Worst Survivor Player of All Time, but I don't see any excuse for Erik and especially Brenda. I still think Wendell probably this season? Of course Dom has plenty of objective game reason to win but I don't feel it, and Wendell has consistently gotten a complete-rounded-human edit -- the seashell for Sea Bass, birthday for his girlfriend, building his kitchen, constantly making things (he was beautifully braiding some fishing line or something this past episode), an epic vote-off confessional a la Parvati. Stuff they have no reason to show but they want to. But he could be getting the Malcolm edit, I suppose, and lose the bullshit fire challenge at F4. I don't mind if it means he comes back, but Wendell! Please observe the lesson of Malcolm, and don't play back-to-back! It never works, not even for Amanda!

How do you know who was there when that plan was made? I don't think I overrate Michael -- he's hardly a great player -- but at least he's playing at all, trying at all, unlike, say, Joey Amazing, who could barely even get to playing when Kelley Wentworth and Spencer were like literally telling him exactly what and how to save himself. As far as I'm concerned, after so many seasons of lumps-on-a-log who don't even try, simply attempting an idol bluff places you solidly in the middle ranks of players.

I mean, there were a lot of people calling Michele's win early on just because they felt she got an unusual amount of focus when she had never even been to tribal and was not giving scintillating interviews or anything. (Then there was that person who was saying she was one of, if not the greatest Survivor player of all time at that same point in the game...baffling.) I don't think she was underedited really. There's not a lot you can do with a game like hers, laying low and turning up the challenge performance at the end. I do think Michele played fine -- the UTR late bloomer game is a totally legit game -- and Aubry made several enormous mistakes, but really she was one meat reward away from winning against two of the goatiest goats ever in Tai and Joe. It's pretty inarguable that from a TV perspective, semi-wacky character Aubry is going to be more to the producers' liking than pretty-but-boring Michele, so I can forgive Jeff of that one. On the other hand his attempts to help the pretty-but-boring males by making the so-called "provider role" more important this season (attempts which obviously completely failed since nobody cares about the less food and chore wheel) is pretty annoying.

Yeah, they wouldn't talk about that when they were actually pregnant -- the joke is that you've eaten so much that you look fat as though you're pregnant. If you really are pregnant, no joke!

I doubt she does, but if she did make Final 4 and lost the fire-making bullshit, then I suppose I could see them making her invisible so we don't get too mad, especially after last season when pretty much everyone saw the ending as a giveaway to Ben.

For me anyway it's not that. I don't need people to root against. I need people to root for. And I root for people when they're playing the game in an exciting way. I like the Big Moves and I like interesting personalities. Dom and Wendell are cool enough but they have no reason to make big moves. None of the people who need to make big moves are making them and (as a consequence?) are getting edited into oblivion. I want someone to overplay wildly, try some crazy shit, go hard. But who would? I would be content with something like Reed in SJDS coming up with his split-vote scheme that got screwed up by Keith's "stick with the plan"...it might not have worked but it was a good attempt. Nobody's making any attempts at all right now.

let's see how many women Mario can insult in one entry...all of them, you say? And Parvati for no reason?? What an unbelievably unexpected surprise.

Why is everyone so boring on the island and so much fun on Ponderosa? Who knew that Jenna was so hilariously obnoxious? She and Michael made a fun pair of bros to share a Ponderosa vid. And OK I'm not some crazy shipper but the sexual chemistry between Libby and Michael is literally insane.