Lobsel Vith

Aside from how the show has added a white slaver to the cast this season (and, for some reason, has shown a five-year inability to add an additional man of color to the cast without killing him off or sending him off after giving him minimal screentime and story), I don't see the point to having characters cross lines if they're simply going to handwave those ramifications. I agree with you that it's frustrating to see the ridiculous reactions from Simmons about Fitz when he nearly killed most of the team, but it also bothers me that I don't expect the show to adequately address this in future episodes. I wish ABC would force the show to accept more competent writers who could do a better job, or perhaps force their hand so that we could have a bit more variety in terms of the men we see onscreen.

I understand why you felt something was off, though, and you're not alone in feeling that way. I suspect, if there weren't budget issues, that the pods wouldn't be so stretched out. It is odd that so little time is given to May and Daisy, though; you'd think they couldn't explored Daisy's trauma more (after what Fitz did to her), or delved more into May dealing with losing time to a robotic doppleganger and where things stand now with Coulson (especially since it would've made her line about Coulson and her taking a "step back" make more sense if this is a relationship that they intend to explore) rather than how they've been approaching things. It reminds me of Luke Mitchell talking about the writers having more characters than they knew how to properly service, although he phrased it much more diplomatically. Some of Deke's lines (particularly about Daisy, including the one in reference to what Fitz did) make him sound malevolent. If he turns out to be a villain (or an antagonist), it would certainly make more use of him than simply having him as an Easter Egg to FitzSimmons, particularly when he serves no real purpose outside of that (particularly since he's just there taking up time and space).

They have the same number of episodes as last season, so I don't think the number of episodes is the issue. I suspect the pacing issues are due to the lower budget this season, so things are being stretched out somewhat. Hence the two arcs this season instead of the three arcs that we received last season (which would also explain reusing the cabin shot from season two for this episode).

I wonder why they never had a real medical person in the first place (since Simmons originally didn't have that role, and sort of fell into it in season two, almost as if the writers simply forgot she wasn't actually a medical doctor like Lincoln was).

I don't think Simmons going off the deep end means that Daisy is a terrible leader. And I think it's a bit much to say that she should blindly trust the man who nearly killed most of the team and tortured her. Considering how poorly trusting Ward worked out in season two, I think she had the right idea to pursue a course of action that wouldn't potentially lead to Ward 2.0 being let loose onto the world. Or perhaps Future Elena's cryptic message was about Fitz (who was referred to as "sick" in this episode, lining up with what Future Elena said about the man the team tried to save) rather than Coulson (who could simply be a red herring at this point because we know he's dying).

She's on Preacher so I think she would've been willing to have a long-term gig on AoS if they simply wrote for her character (instead of, say, giving story to Ward despite his character serving no real purpose after Daisy shot him multiple times in season two). I get giving Daisy story in season two - she's Quake - but I don't get why the show refused to let Ward go even when it was clear that they had no real idea what to do with his character, and just meandered around with silly ways to keep him around because they liked the actor (apparently more than they liked BJ Britt or Blair Underwood).

Talbot has been fun, and his relationship with Creel is a nice callback to their relationship in season three (since Talbot is the one who gave Creel a chance after he was de-programmed, and trusted him to save his son's life). Yeah, Ruth Negga was wasted quite a bit in the last half of season two. Considering her role on Preacher I think she would've been willing to do a more long-term role on the show if they had been willing to give her meaningful material (letting Ward die and giving her a more better role would've been interesting).

I'm glad about Mack being allowed to be wary of Fitz, particularly after the previous episode (so I suppose he might've simply said that to Simmons because he was worried about Yo-yo, and now he's allowed to be a bit more forthright). Ruth Negga did a phenomenal job. She did more with a brief scene than all of the antagonists this season have done with so much more screentime and content.

I'm not terribly interested in her character, and I don't find her or her mother to be compelling.

Killing a man because he's a threat (I'm assuming you're talking about Donald Gill, the mind-controlled student from the academy who gained ice powers) and plotting an act to murder a plethora of innocent people (which is what Hydra was aiming for during TWS and the later part of season one of AoS, and we know they were murdering students at the academy during their takeover of S.H.I.E.L.D.) makes S.H.I.E.L.D. and Hydra very different. The corruption seemed to start from the beginning if we take the information from TWS at face value (that Hydra was infiltrating S.H.I.E.L.D. from the very beginning). Honestly, given that Coulson had no known funding and the organization was now smaller and underground, I don't know why the show never reflected that. They just seemed to have a budget from somewhere and it was never really addressed that they were truly struggling to survive with limited resources, tech, and manpower (I guess you could theorize that the Toolbox was part of it, but it's never actually stated). Mace kind of makes a comment about that in season 4 (since even he admits to not knowing how they pulled that off), but it's still a mystery.

It was reminiscent of early season two, where Mack's sole purpose seemed to be to be a plot device for Fitz's story. He's lost his daughter for a second time because of AIDA and the Framework, he was seriously injured protecting Yo-yo from yet another of Fitz's robots. I think the show should have allowed him to do something other than prop Fitz to Simmons, especially when Deke already served that purpose in the previous episode. It's odd how Daisy is the one who was tortured, but Fitz is the only one receiving support. Which is very unfortunate. Similar to Deke, he crossed a serious line, but the show isn't holding him accountable, which makes crossing that line all but pointless because there are no ramifications to that action, and given the woobification of Ward in the Framework storyline (on the backs of his victims, no less) it's becoming a trend with this show to excuse certain types of characters who do such things.

To put that in context, Daisy thought Gonzales' people tried to murder her mother, and Gonzales' team had attempted to murder her earlier that year. It's not as if she had no reason to think that Gonzales' people would try to harm Inhumans. Additionally, since Daisy didn't torture anyone in a sadistic manner the way that Fitz did, bringing up her past doesn't put her on the same level as what Fitz did. What Fitz did was a hollow attempt to try and put them on the same level - in short, he pulled a Ward. Fitz also knows Daisy is willing to put her life on the line for others - when Fitz jumped into the portal of the monolith without warning anyone, Daisy risked her life to keep it open to make sure Fitz and Simmons could make it back. It's not as if Daisy is a stranger to him or anything like that; he's known her for years, after all. Ward's opinion means nothing. I could care less about what the guy who threatened to rape her thought. Now, she did warn Miles, she did so because she thought he was innocent. She was wrong - no question about that, but it's not like she warned him knowing he was guilty. I'm pretty sure Fitz's actions will be handwaved like Deke's were. Most of the people in the episode showed more concern for Fitz than his victim, after all, so I doubt they're going to turn him into a villain when they're already working on moving past what he did.

You have a fair point. Elizabeth Henstridge has said that Iain and her were playing their scenes as brother and sister, and that they were doing so right up until the very end of the season, where they were surprised to learn that the writers decided to turn the relationship romantic (she even referred to it as "incestuous", which makes sense since they were envisioned as a brother-sister duo based on the brothers from Ocean's Eleven). I know Chloe Bennet said in one interview that being paired off would make them both uncomfortable because of their real life semi-brother-sister relationship (and she jokingly said they wanted them paired off because of that). It comes across like the Nice Guy Trope, which seems almost intentionally given how they spent almost the entirety of season two having her not be interested in Fitz (to the point where she tells Bobbi she's never viewed him romantically while we see her show a clear interest in Trip) but then does a 180 during the season finale, which almost makes me wonder if the writers ended up changing their mind from their original intention (they were flipping some tropes, like with Ward starting off as the stoic white action hero, only to turn out to be the villain, but FitzSimmons is very much the common Nice Guy trope in how it was approached by the writers).

I agree that it's becoming more obvious that the budget was downgraded this season, which is probably why the pods were stretched out this season (so we have two instead of three, which likely makes it easier to reuse the same sets).

Comparative to letting Fitz out, however, I'd argue it's much safer.

While Fitz has a warped sense of perspective, nearly killed most of the team, and was loyal to Hydra in the Framework, so I can see Daisy hedging her bets on Robin rather than risking letting loose another Ward onto the world. The way that things have been set up, it's very reasonable to be wary of Fitz.

I'm the only pointing out that Fitz's presumption that speaking to a woman is impossible is simply ridiculous.

You mean Daisy saved lives, since she was the one who actually closed the rift. The same person you're saying doesn't care about anyone. Daisy told Coulson in episode ten that she was willing to see her powers restored if it meant saving people, and I can see how Daisy would say "no" to the man who brutally tortured her despite the risks she faced. I'd find it ludicrous if Daisy said anything else about a procedure that "traumatized" her. It was an act of torture by someone who wasn't willing to simply speak with Daisy and has no regrets about nearly murdering most of the team or putting someone who was supposed to be a friend through literal hell. Considering that there's no reason to trust Fitz at this point, I don't see why turning to Robin is a bad idea. It's not like Daisy, of all people, would've forgotten what happened when Coulson previously trusted Ward not to stab the team in the back. It was torture - the picture makes that perfectly clear, as well as Fitz's dialogue from that episode about Daisy being "traumatized".

Daisy was willing to stay in the future because she was concerned about the entire planet - let's not throw Daisy under the bus because she doesn't trust the guy who nearly killed most of the team with his asinine actions.

Robin is psychic, and Fitz is almost entirely untrustworthy and nearly killed Yo-yo, Mack, Simmons, and Daisy. I'm not sure why turning to someone who can see the future is worse than trusting a guy who is giving in to his inner Nazi.

Considering what Fitz did to her, I don't see why Daisy would trust him. It's like trusting Ward - and we see where that got Coulson in season two, since it lead to the giant mess of season three.

I have to say that I find it odd that the episode focused on people showing concern for Simmons and Fitz, but not for the person Fitz tortured in the previous episode. Honestly, the return of Hydra wasn't all that interesting. I'm glad that Talbot wasn't one-dimensional in this episode by showing enough intelligent to know it wasn't Daisy and to presume that Coulson would try to find him (as opposed to their original meeting), but Hale and Ruby don't really interest me at this point.

On how we feel about the characters? I suppose so. You realize that pointing out that a character is flawed doesn't mitigate slavery, right? It's not like Deke is just as bad as everyone else because no one in the main cast is perfect. This is bringing me back to the horrid days when people tried to make some moral equivalency between Ward and his victims. We know from previous dialogue that Daisy did say she would restore her powers if it was necessary: Coulson: I know you’re scared to go home. Daisy: No, I’m terrified! If there’s a chance I’m the cause, I can’t go. Couslon: You don’t even have your powers anymore! Daisy: It’s only a matter of time, and you know it. If there is an emergency... or if one of you are in danger, I will need them, and we will find a way. I was never too fond of the decision to pair them together (romantically) either. I've never understood the point in putting them together when they were already a scientific duo. I know they were put together because they have their fans, but the way it was handled in seasons two and three just make it seem unhealthy, and given their brother-sister relationship in season one (with Iain and Elizabeth both saying they were playing it off as siblings right until the very end of the season, coupled with the two characters hanging out for ten years prior to the start of the show), I always found the show's handling of the two very odd. It, unfortunately, came across as the Nice Guy trope at times (she never showed the kind of attraction to Fitz that she did to Trip, for example, and at one point even tells Bobbi she never saw Fitz romantically, which is odd if the point was to pair them together), and the whole arc with Will just made Fitz come across like the default choice in the end because agency is removed from Simmons. Their creative decisions left a lot to be desired. And it certainly impacts how I view them now because I can't forget the road they took to come to this point.

Incorrect. Deke sold Daisy into slavery. There is also dialogue where it is stated that Deke sold Daisy into slavery, including from Daisy (which is why Fitz and Simmons both say they want to kill him, although their anger is handwaved from one episode to the next). This isn't a matter for dispute - it's a fact of the show. If you want to like Deke, that's your choice, but let's not pretend that Deke didn't sell Daisy into slavery when that's absolutely what he did, and there's no ambiguity about it. Deke is a slaver, so he isn't much better than Ward. It's evil to sell Daisy into slavery, to put her in a position where she can be tortured, raped, or killed because she's nothing more than property. That's why slavery is evil. That's why Deke isn't much better than Ward when what he did is completely inexcusable. Fitz tortured Daisy - again - an nearly got Mack and Elena killed, so my focus is more on his victims than him.

No. Slavery is indefensible. That's it. Even in societies where historical slavery was permissive and lawful, there were people who recognized that it was morally repugnant and unethical. I'm not going to give Deke a pass because of the society he comes from, and I cringe at the idea that I'm expected to give him a pass. Even in this fictional setting, there are characters from the same society who demonstrated much better character than he ever did. He doesn't belong on the team at all. If he does end up being part of the team, it'll be an example of how this show will prioritize a white male character over men of color during the run of the show, considering characters like Trip, Andrew, Joey, and Robbie have gotten much less than Deke, who has no reason to be on the team (as the show never states any reason at all that he was brought along) but is still there. Mack is pretty much the example that the Rule of One is still in effect on this show.