Audreythe2nd

When did he say this? I know what he said about hanging the giant wolf pack on the wall, but not about this.

It is interesting, but I wouldn't loop all of those things into the same category. Aegon was likely the thing that was excised because it doesn't go anywhere. Sansa's Vale plotline was cut probably because it's boring and she ends up in the North with Littlefinger anyway, and not entirely out of his scope of influence (as evidenced by what happened at the end of Season 6). SanSan definitely still have a bit of a connection in the show, but the romance part of it is likely not necessary. They are certainly destined to meet again though. Jaime still not breaking from Cersei is likely an interesting pacing, timing, and substitution decision. Based on his facial expression during the season finale, "now it begins." They seem to have really wanted to substitute the reason for his break (from infidelity to burning stuff and being responsible for the death of their last child). I expect Jaime's storyline to progress at essentially lightning speed next season.

I'm a blatant, biased fan of his, but I do find it annoying that Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is now the only one out of the top five billed to not get nominated. He's not up against Emilia of course, but he's about ten times the actor that she is, and also I think they're just going to continue giving it to Peter Dinklage over him irrespective of who had the better material/who did the better job in a particular season (Season 3 especially comes to mind). He's the only non-American or British actor in that top tier though, so I think that might be working against him a bit as well (among other things). Kit Harington I can understand squeaking through at last after last season and this season. Maisie I'm on the fence about.

Cersei is literally always wrong, so... it's like, one of GRRM's favourite things to do, making Cersei wrong about things. There's no way I see Cersei ending up being right about how her life is going to end, how Jaime's life is going to end, etc. In the books, she has no idea that Jaime hates her and hasn't responded to her letter because he burned it as opposed to "Oh, he must not have gotten it! No way Jaime would abandon me!" I really, really wish more people would take this into consideration, because it's kind of a major thing.

I don't think Jaime and Brienne necessarily have "tragic romance" written all over them. We've already had just about all of the tragic romances this story can take (list any romance that hasn't ended tragically so far). It would actually be quite an odd narrative technique to drag a will they/won't they out this long (we're talking Season 2/3 through to Season 7 now) and have nothing but death and tragedy come of it. There has to be some kind of payoff that's not death in this scenario, I think. That's just my opinion, but I could cite book/show evidence that that's the case. They're my two favourite characters, so I've probably paid more attention to the specifics of their chapters and the minutia that can be considered foreshadowing in the show than most have, lol. I can see Sandor dying for Sansa though, or for some kind of cause related to her. Since they haven't framed it as a romance in the show, it wouldn't be totally redundant, and would be more about Sandor regaining honour and purpose at the end of his life (or something).

They've framed Jaime and Brienne as a romance (moreso even than in the books), while they've eliminated SanSan romantic references, but have still kept hints of a connection to each other. My guess is simply that wherever the story is going with Jaime and Brienne, the romance is an integral part of that (marriage maybe?) whereas with Sansa and Sandor, the romance isn't necessary, but just the general connection is. He might tell her the truth about Littlefinger, save her from the Mountain, and then die for all we know. Those are the types of events that could be framed romantically in the books, but aren't required to be romantic at all.

I would rather the dragons have nothing at all to do with Jon, actually. Jon's never seen a dragon, probably doesn't even know they exist, never expressed the desire to see a dragon, etc. That the dragons are suddenly like, "Hey! You're Rheagar's son!" with no build up is nonsensical to me. It was difficult enough for Daenerys to wrangle them, and she *birthed* them and is pure Targaryan. As for other dragon riders, the only one I would find acceptable is Bran, since at least it seems that's actually what he's being built up for (what with the warging and the knowing about the white walkers, and the visions of the dragon shadows and the "one day you will fly" stuff).

The director said something about trying multiple "looks" between Jaime/Cersei for the last shot and not really knowing which one to use so he took that moment out (or something). And then D&D put that shot back in. I don't think there is anything in Jaime's expression that shows confusion. If anything, it's the most knowing look I've ever seen Jaime give Cersei. It was basically saying, "I know what you did" without a word.

Not only that, he's got PoV chapters about Arianne who doesn't exist in the show, about Aeron who also doesn't exist (well he does, but not as a PoV), the whole Young Griff thing to contend with, a way more complicated Dorne story to deal with, a Stannis who is still alive, a Tyrion who hasn't met Daenerys yet, AND a total mystery as to where Jaime and Brienne are and where they are going to pop up. It's actually a mess. As much as Dorne in the show totally sucks, D&D seem to understand that its function can exist primarily to provide Dany forces for Westeros and that's it. George's major mistake was introducing so many characters in Dorne, and having the Young Griff thing be a thing at all. Because now he has a disaster on his hands if he really wants to finish this in two books.

It also was a pretty neat ironic callback to Ned and LF in the throne room: "I did warn you not to trust me." So Sansa is unknowingly calling her father a fool, lol.

I find it odd though that George RR Martin specifically wanted the five year gap so that Arya could be trained as an assassin in a realistic manner. I mean, that's a long time for the purpose to be to simply discover who she is as a Stark and reject the darkness. I don't doubt that one some level that *is* what Arya's story is about (she obviously rejected the Faceless Men for partly that reason), but the call of revenge is obviously strong enough where she didn't even go straight home to Winterfell - the went to the Twins to finish off Walder Frey instead (and don't get me wrong, we're all very grateful, lol). I guess what I'm saying is I go back and forth on whether next season is going to find her at a crossroads where she does indeed abandon revenge and choose to join her family, or if the allure of one last big kill is so great that it causes her to make one last detour before she presumably decides she's satisfied, and decides to go to Winterfell Season 8.

Arya should kill Qyburn and wear his face. That should do the trick for distraction (for both Cersei and the Mountain).

I disagree, because we don't for sure (like 100% for sure) if the valonqar is a significant character; there is nothing to tell us that. We don't know if that character has their own arc. We don't know anything except what the prophecy (in.the.books.only) told us. If it isn't a significant character in the books (and why would it have to be? GRRM likes pulling rug out by having characters killed by those we don't necessarily expect to kill them - he doesn't always seem to like one to one revenge tales), then I can see why the showrunners may have decided to change it, but still have Cersei dying. Which is the important part. But whatever. Everyone thinks Jaime is the valonqar. I get it. I just wish we could talk about what we think happens to him afterwards (aside from him also committing suicide) once in awhile without it being the only about that. He's an interesting character, who might end up being important beyond Cersei. He's dynamic, with some complex diplomatic skills (both book and show), he's clearly conflicted about his family's alliances and senseless violence, in the books he was also gifted a very interesting weirwood dream (that ended up having nothing to do with Cersei), and has one of the best potential romantic relationships in the story with Brienne. He's a cool character, and he's being set up for things that go beyond his potential valonqar status - they are just never discussed.

Can you imagine them changing Sansa not being at the Vale but rather Winterfell, marrying Ramsay Bolton and losing her virginity to him instead of whatever happens in the books, orchestrating a large-scale revenge against him and watching him be fed to his dogs? Because I'm pretty sure all that happened and was a huge change for that character as well. The prophecy says that Cersei dies. Ultimately the important part might simply be that Cersei dies, not how she dies, and if they don't like how she dies in the books, they might have changed it (thus the exclusion of the prophecy). Like they changed Sansa's arc. That's all I'm trying to argue. ETA: Look, it's no secret that I don't want it to be Jaime, because I don't think it fits other parts of his story very well (and in the books, I really, really don't see how it's Jaime). I will accept it if it is, but from what I'm watching, he's not the 100% clear candidate yet, as everyone thinks he is.

Look, for the sake of argument, let's say the solution to the valonqar prophecy in the books is the one that the wording, syntax, and context clues actually tell us that it is: the wording suggests some kind of undead Tommen. I don't want to go through why the wording suggests that, almost resolutely - there have been plenty of people who have analyzed it online and it's a good argument. If GRRM's solution is that Tommen dies (maybe Cersei kills him) and he rises from the dead to strangle her, or Qyburn reanimates him, or Arya wears his face to kill her, then I can see why D&D would say, "We're not going to do that. We're going to do something else." Yes, Tommen is dead and possibly burned in the show. But again, the valonqar prophecy is not in the show. And wording wise, in the books, Tommen is basically the really clear and elegant solution to that prophecy.

What will be interesting to hear about is filming spoilers about whereabouts of more than one character. For instance, if we get info that Jaime is off somewhere with the Lannister army (as he stated this season, he expected to command all the Lannister forces soon) with Cersei still alive and in KL with a spoiler for it being at the end of the season, that will be a very interesting wrinkle. I'm very curious/excited for the off-season filming leaks actually. They will tell us a lot being so close to the final season. They might, if there was some reason they thought they logistically couldn't do it with how they are structuring the story. That she dies seems to be the key thing here.

I don't like that there are no other options that can be considered other than Jaime, when the show is projecting more than one. They left out the valonqar prophecy and kept in the YMBQ. So maybe it's Daenerys.On the other hand, GRRM likes the self-fulfilling aspect of prophecies the best, so maybe it's Tyrion because Cersei willed it to be so by hating him so much. Maybe it's Arya, because as I said above, that list of hers kind of seems to be a *thing* for her, and training to be a super assassin is useful if you plan on killing a Mad Queen. They might even change what happens in the books. They might not even make it the same person. IMO, half the irony of Cersei burning the place down has already happened to Jaime - he killed a king and destroyed his reputation so that his sister could turn around and use that wildfire and become a mad queen anyway when he wasn't there. He doesn't have to kill her for this story to be effective at this point - he just needs to betray/leave her and that will serve the same purpose. And again, we don't even know if the show is doing Cersei's death the same way! The prophecy isn't even there! I just like talking about different options that the show could very much be projecting - there's not just one, and I hate talking about the story as if there is only one option, period.

Oh. Yeah, well I don't believe that. At this stage there are so many people to do the deed and ways for Cersei to die that I think Jaime is the least likely of them. But Arya is the most likely I think. With Arya, she IS her list. And the show has whittled that short list down to just two names (more on the long list). If she doesn't try to continue with that list, especially now that Cersei is Queen, then what's the point of all her training and getting herself to this point? What would she actually do if she was reunited with Jon and Sansa at Winterfell? Story-wise, it doesn't make sense. She's going to continue choosing revenge for a little while longer I think. With the Littlefinger thing, that's why I corrected and said that seeing Sansa and LF will trigger Sandor to say something, whereas he didn't have that trigger with Arya.

Why can't Arya kill Cersei? I agree with the rest of what you said though, that there are a bunch of characters who can't be at Winterfell just yet, and I do believe that Arya's "tragedy" will be that the lure of revenge will be stronger than the calls of home (for the time being). You know, that is one of those silly things, that LF didn't come up in the Hound's time in Arya's company. But it might be that he's triggered to tell Sansa that it was LF that betrayed her father when he SEES Sansa in LF's alliance. Kind of like, "Uh... you know he held a knife to your dad in the throne room, right?"

Hmmmm, it's odd though (and I have no idea how/why this would happen) but with Melisandre coming to the area and Thoros and Beric being on Arya's longlist, I almost feel like it would make more sense for all of those people to stay in the Riverlands with Arya (and possibly get murdered by her). I'm almost like, is it possible that the Hound gets to the North *first* before them, or instead of them? Do we think that Arya would make it to Winterfell before the end of Season 7 as well? I'm not sure myself.

Yeah... the way that they've plotted this, if Jaime kills Cersei (which I'm still skeptical of, because she has quite a lot of people headed her way - seems like a waste for her not to see it and experience it) there's no way he's dying along with her. They've basically set this thing up so there's no earthly reason why he wouldn't follow his heart after Brienne - no more children/close relatives, an evil Cersei, a bunch of wars he probably didn't want, no more KG duties (I would certainly presume - that look on his face didn't really say, "oh goody, sign me up for THAT!"). The question is how long it takes him to get out of KL, but yeah, I think Brienne and their love story is the loose thread here.

I think it might possibly end up being much more than tension. Tommen is dead (who Jaime was obviously incredibly concerned about before leaving), he sees the remnants of the wildfire smoking in the distance, he's probably already connected these things in his mind, and the fact that he killed a king to save the people from burning a city and ruined his reputation in the meantime, and then Cersei goes and does THIS?! Yeah... I'd say it's going to be a tad bit more than tension.

Weirder still was that it was also signalling a Tyrion/Daenerys thing even harder as well.

Yeah, seriously. If Jaime was terrified from just seeing her crowned (and that was certainly the expression on his face), then I think we're supposed to be just a tad disturbed as well, lol.

I'm sorry, those spoilers couldn't obviously be more BS if they tried.