madam magpie

But why bother treating her like an equal or a partner when you can toss out threats to puff up your male ego?

This is going to be super interesting. Thus far, Elizabeth has come across as incredibly sympathetic on this show. A lot of that has to do with Claire Foy. But I’ve also seen several other documentaries and read articles about her, and about how the palace handled Diana’s death, and I do think that it’s a very complex, tricky story to tell. There’s A LOT to unpack, and in many ways Elizabeth and Charles were horrible to Diana. It’s a disagreement I have with my mom a lot. She has zero sympathy for Charles and to this day sees him as a terrible person. On the other hand, I feel some sympathy for him, given that Camilla was clearly always the person he wanted and theirs is a relationship that has lasted decades. I also feel for Elizabeth because she’s often forced into an impossible position. I think Charles was shafted in the way we’ve seen Margaret be during these two seasons. But he was also terrible to his very young wife, and the family mistreated her. How the show can tell that story without demonizing either side, I don’t know. And without Claire Foy as Elizabeth, I’m not sure the character can remain sympathetic during that period. Maybe the show won’t try to do that. Maybe it’ll just slam the Queen. I’m super interested to see how it plays out, though. I’m also hoping we get to see Elizabeth and Margaret Thatcher.

Oh yeah! Falwell did found the university. That’s true. I do always mix up which one of them did/said what obnoxious thing. That said, Franklin Graham is also associated with Liberty University, and I read somewhere that the school recently joined forces with some Billy Graham organization to offer certain classes. To be fair, Billy Graham was pro integration, and like I said, Elizabeth being taken with him shows tolerance and egalitarianism on her part. That would’ve been super frowned upon in good Anglican circles. However, Graham absolutely is both an evangelist and an evangelical. And he was also the first (or at least first most famous) to make the “never alone with any woman but his wife” rule a thing. And he said something about “real women” being meant to be wives and mothers rather than pesky feminists. And weren’t there rumors of antisemitism? So...I’m pretty comfortable on the disdain train with Queen Mum, even if we are there for different reasons. ETA: I should clarify too that, as I understand it, it’s evangelicalism that’s associated with lower classes and would be frowned upon by upper class religions like Anglicans. An evangelist is just a preacher, I think, though the two often go together. Billy Graham also became famous on radio and TV starting in the 1940s and ‘50s, and he was (I think) the first to bring evangelicalism to a mass audience via those new media outlets. So to Queen Mum he’d have been a low-brow showman as well. He had a lot going against him in her opinion, I’d imagine.

Evangelism has always been considered low-brow. It’s the religion of poor southern people. Queen Mum is a member of the Church of England...high-brow. She looks down on Graham because he’s an American and an evangelical: ie, emotional, uncouth, lower class, etc. That Elizabeth was taken with him speaks to acceptance and egalitarianism on her part. I found that whole bit hilarious, but I also can’t stand Billy Graham or his son or their university or evangelism and all its hypocritical intolerance.

Right, but my point is that it sounds like she has a real job, not that she’s just working for the gallery so they can say they have a royal on the payroll. Whether she’s good at the job or a good worker, I have no idea. Even William and Harry had real jobs at one point: William did search and rescue, and Harry was in the military. No doubt, their family and position brought them attention and authority they hadn’t earned the regular way, but they did have real jobs, not just figure-head type positions.

I don’t know about Beatrice, but I read an article that said Eugenie worked at an art gallery. She’s 26 or something and already in an associate director (or just director?) role. But I think it’s a real job!

This is what I understood too, and I really dislike him for it. He’s basically lording over Elizabeth in any way he can because he’s so pathetic and sexist that he can’t treat her like an equal. One thing about this show is how awful it’s made Phillip look. I always thought he was the kinder, gentler royal. But if the portrayal on this show is true, he’s nothing but a whiny, weak asshole. I don’t feel bad for this character at all. I’ve felt bad for Charles for a long time, though. The way he behaved with Diana was horrible, but by all accounts, he adores his sons, treated them well, and has had a loving relationship with them. Seeing the poor kid here was so sad. One nitpicky thing: What year is this episode? It has to be at least 1963, right, because Kennedy died in the last episode? That means Charles would be at least 15. The kid playing looked no more than 12.

Amen to that! I love this! Add me to the camp who laughed when Tommy moved the toy soldier back. You could just see him struggling not to lose it after the queen MESSED UP HIS MODEL. This was a great episode, the best of the series, I think. Claire Foy really is fantastic in this, isn’t she? She says so much with just small expressions and those great eyes.

Me too. It shows a real thoughtfulness, perceptiveness, and deep intelligence, even as Claire Foy always plays Elizabeth as self-conscious about her lack of education. She really is almost always the smartest person in the room, particularly because of that willingness to listen and reconsider. I was surprised that Jackie was so unprepared to meet the queen and acted so gauche (as my mother would say). Wasn’t she supposed to have been pretty classy? She was born into money and grew up in the high society world. I don’t believe she didn’t know how to behave. And she was supposed to be high?? Nah. I also don’t buy JFK as a crass douchebag. A high-brow douchebag, sure, but this guy acted like he’d fallen into money and never been to a fancy gathering before. And I’ve NEVER heard that JFK was abusive because Jackie was beloved in Paris. That story became super famous and charming. That said, it was fun to see Jodie Balfour as Jackie. I loved her in Bomb Girls and hadn’t known what she’d been up to since.

I always watch with the closed captioning on...just in case.

This episode was very sad, not funny at all. I hope Letty and Javier aren’t separated for too long. I like them together.

This is what I thought too...maybe she and the ex were working together.

Loved the show...it’s gorgepus, like everyone says. But I agree that it seemed to be wrapped up really suddenly. I thought the shoot-out was cool, but couldn’t figure out why Alice and Maggie didn’t shoot Frank while he just sat there on his horse right out in the open. Well, I get it for plot reasons, but not for story reasons. We never found out what Roy’s brother’s job was, did we? He made a comment in the letter that said he had a job Roy wouldn’t believe, but then we never found out what it was. Or did I miss that? I kept expecting something shady to come up with the preacher, but I guess he was just a preacher? The actors were all so fantastic, every one of them. Plus, I was a huge fan of Downtown Abbey and Lady Mary was my favorite character, so I really enjoyed Michelle Dockery in this. I thought she was great as Alice, maybe the best character I’ve seen her play.

This was probably my favorite episode so far. Really great stuff. Holland Taylor and Mr. Sheffield were fantastic. I felt terrible for Letty in this episode. We really got to see why she struggles as she does. And whew. Poor Jacob. The bit about Estelle being a good mother, though? What?? I’m guessing we aren’t supposed to take Holland Taylor as a reliable narrator.

I thought this episode was hilarious. “It’s a sign” still has me laughing. And the Rihana song at the end was perfect.

I have zero problem with the rapist dying, but that being the killing that’s the ethical dilemma (Letty trying to stop it, Apple seeing Javier acting shady) does create interesting drama. This show walks the fine line between dark comedy and drama. It doesn’t always hit exactly right, but I liked the conversation on the bed and bickering about the time. I think it lays out a contrast between mundane life and high stakes criminal life. I also like Letty/Javier trying to work out their lives around Jacob. Michelle Dockery really is great in this.

I laughed at... Letty: Why is it always a boring sport like fishing or golf? Javier: I just do what they do. I kill a lot of white men. But I mean...why would she? It’s all a con, and homeschool is just one more detail she made up on the fly. Yeah. This is really hard to believe.

Excited for this one. The cast is fantastic! And yes, I agree that the cinematography is gorgeous.

Oh, man...I just thought I’d looked away and missed who sent the farm toy, and then was too lazy to go back and look. Do we really not know??

True...she was. And she was much more involved than Cady and had a relationship with the kid. It was so sad when he called out, “see you in school” as she was arrested.

How old do we think Cady is supposed to be? Maybe 30? I actually really liked this dilemma because she was 100% right, but she didn’t have the best strategy. Talking to the tribal council was a good start, but Cady should have made the teacher do most of the talking and persuading. I found the teacher more useless than Cady, honestly, because she should know better what was needed to persuade. She grew up in the culture and had much more insight into how to make this happen. Instead, she—who should know the history of kids being taken from their parents—wanted to take a kid from his parents with the help of a white woman! Cady was young and stupid, but still! I wish Henry had given more guidance too. He started off strong, but then dropped it. I don’t think the storytelling this season was particularly good. They hit on a lot of great topics, but covered them superficially. There are some great legal, historical, and diplomatic lessons to be learned here, but the writers just dropped them, mostly. I did like how reluctant Cady was to help the teacher commit a crime and how she kept stumbling on both sides of the ethical line. I liked how it introduced her to Zach. And I love that Cady is such a softie. I really do. She’s so compassionate, gentle, and loving. There’s not much I like more in my fiction than a young bleeding heart lawyer. But I wish the show had taken the time to let her learn the lessons. I think the writers tried to cram in way too much story this season.

I think it’s more that she’s very loyal and committed to her father and that she’s worried about what will happen if she’s not around to help him. I don’t think Cady’s so much adrift or confused about who she is, as she really needs Walt to give her the OK to leave him and go into the world (which he’d never do because he’s too scared and self-absorbed). Her commitment to her dad is admirable and one of her good qualities, but it’s also her Achilles heel. Walt zeroes in on that loyalty to get her to do what he thinks is best for her and them together, rather than what Cady actually wants for herself. She’s not selfish enough to just override him and do what she wants. Cady’s been pretty selfless throughout the show. She’s a bleeding heart who loves and wants to help people, often at a cost to herself. Zach and Henry (for the most part) didn’t take advantage of that. Walt always did. Jacob did sometimes. I feel like Branch was just an ass to her, but honestly I can’t remember. (I didn’t like him anyway.) I find it hard to believe that Cady would like New York, honestly. And she didn’t need to go that far for something totally different. But I do think it’s sad that the show ended with her flat-out telling Zach what she wanted, his being totally supportive and encouraging, her making plans to do it, and then her dad pushing in and derailng her plans. I mean...Denver, Seattle, San Franciso, Chicago...you don’t have to go all the way to the extreme that is NY. But she made it clear that’s what she wanted to try, and I do wish the show had let her. Everyone else got exactly what they wanted.

I mostly enjoyed this season and really like Henry taking over the casino in the end, but damn. I felt so bad for Cady. Still stuck in Wyoming, and now what? She’s going to be the boss, so how’s she going to continue in a relationship with Zach? Ethically, she’d have to stop dating him or he’d have to quit. I really like them together. He’s so “no drama” and is one of the only men on the show who treats her like she has a right to make up her own mind and actually supports what she wants in life. I wish she’d left, even temporarily, and they’d tried to make a long-distance thing work. Now she’s just trapped again because her overbearing father can’t let her be who she wants to be, and she loves him too much to make a clean break. Walt/Vic was ickier than I’d imagined and not romantic at all. Do they get together in the books? The scenery sure is gorgeous, though. Wow. That made no sense! She’s a lawyer. She’s never shown any interesting in being a cop, and she seemed to always like being a lawyer. But Walt needs a successor and Walt gets whatever he wants, so cop it is for Cady.

I’m 100% here for the Cady/Zach pairing. Not so much for Vic/Walt.

As I recall, Eamonn wasn’t into Vic anymore and he broke up with her when he was in the hospital after being shot.