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I felt a little sorry there for Alicent. Let’s see she is surrounded by a rapist son, the emo one eyed son, a daughter that doesn’t like to be touched and is saying weird things, a controlling father who constantly making her into the image of her mother, a personal guard with a major madonna/whore complex, and a psychopath with a foot fetish. This must not have been the first time that this happened because her constantly putting her feet out like that. This must have happened before. I don’t think the show was trying to make the women don’t want war but the men do agenda. This is more that Rhaenyra and Alicent finally made some sort of peace that she is like Otto says isn’t doing this for her husband’s daughter but for her childhood best friend. The men and I think Rhaenys also sees the truth of the matter is that war is unavoidable. The only way Alicent could have really have avoided war was not to make the claim that Viserys made a death bed proclamation. It is weird that i think everyone who knows Viserys knows that he would never have made a change like that but Alicent really wants to believe it. So was Mysaria killed in that fire? if not she is going to be trouble in the future. I am wondering what Aemond was thinking after Criston took Aegon away and Aegon had begged him to run away. Yeah let’s put a bunch of people in a place that stores dragons. What is the worst that could happen?

I think it is also important to the remember that the North is basically the size of the rest of the continent so yes the practice last longer there but in parts of the north. You would have the Umbers who are the farthest northern family, the mountain clans, the Boltons, and Skagos. These were territories in the North that were not as easy to keep an eye on for Starks either due distance or deception. The rest of the North seemed to have stopped it with the rest of Westeros when Alysanne outlawed it. Of course it is interesting and relevant to the show in that the Targs especially on Dragonstone took advantage of the right of first night as much if not more then any other Lords/Kings. So as mentioned by others in previous posts, if Rhaenyra wanted to take a lover and get pregnant she couldn’t find one with more Targ like features.

A couple of thoughts about this. It is interesting if true that it is Otto that brings to deal while in the book it is the Maester. Also will we be seeing one of Baratheon girls taunting Aemond or will there be some other reason given for him going after Luke. Also I wonder if Jace will get the book Robb/Jayne storyline. He hears the news about Luke at WF and sleeps with/marries Sara Snow. I wonder if it is to prevent pretenders coming out trying to claim to be the PTWP. Also maybe to stop people like Rhaegor from actively trying to make it happen.

Definitely agree with this. In a previous post, I mentioned a similar thought about their relationship. But to expand on it, this moment really defined that Viserys was very much right when he said in episode one that Daemon didn’t want to be king. Or more to the point, he didn’t want to be king if it meant having to kill Viserys like the council was afraid. Daemon’s feelings are classic little brother. Daemon wanted to be the Hand because it meant that Viserys trusted him to have his back and when he really needed help Viserys would turn to him. After Aemma and baby’s death, at the funeral he pushes Rhaenyra to be there for Viserys. He also shows his little brother syndrome because he can’t accept help from Viserys especially after being exiled both times. He did it when Viserys offered help in the war of the Stepstones and again on Laena’s funeral when he offered him a spot back on the council. so that moment on the steps of the throne was such a touching moment and the moment that Daemon had always wanted which was for his big brother to need him and his help. I have seen a lot of criticism of Rhaenyra being on Dragonstone these last few years instead of in King’s Landing. There are some valid points in that she shouldn’t have stayed completely away the whole time and she needed to do a little more networking inside King’s Landing. However it should be noted that as heir, she should have been living at Dragonstone and running things there until she was called upon when Viserys dies. Dragonstone is it’s own little kingdom that needs to be run and is a good way of preparing to be King/Queen of the whole realm. It would have been better if we saw more of her at Dragonstone running things and setting up her own council there as preparation.

Okay with GRRM confirming we are getting Daron next season, who else do we definitely need to be seeing next season? I am not sure with him also saying this should last four season that it is more or less likely that we get Cregan next season. I think they could do Jace in Winterfell for an episode or two at least to actually allow him to have more of a character on the show. I do keep laughing when reading comments about why Alicent’s kids are being played by actors who look a bit older than what their characters should be and seem to already have their own personalities while Rhae’s oldest kids seem to be played by the correct age and really don’t have more character to them at this point. Sure Jace is being given a little bit in the last episode. I have to stop myself from making a comment or joke about them being virtual redshirts. I am going to assume they will eventually age up the three youngest of Rhae’s boys either next season or t he one after since they will be more of factor then. I am wondering when we will start getting casting information for the next season. I know there had been the Elizabeth Olsen rumors and people speculating that she could be Alys Rivers or more like fans wishing this. Last post I asked if there was someone you want to see next season, now is there a character you want and do you have an actor you want playing them.

To your last two points I think this goes back to what Rhaenyra said last week. People will think she killed Laenor. Rhaenys didn’t automatically jump on Rhaenyra’s deal because she didn’t want to help her out if she thought there was a chance to hurt Rhaenyra However once Viserys came out, Rhaenys realized that Vaemond was going to lose so she decided that she wouldn’t lose as well. With Vaemond he probably also thinks Rhaenyra is behind Laenor’s death so he knew that if he lost here, they would probably kill him to make sure he wouldn’t cause anymore future problems. I think Daemon whispering ‘say it’ was basically telling Vaemond to say what he wanted to say because he is a dead man anyway. I am interested to see where Myseria (?) is going to play in this upcoming battle. Her having spies in the castle is interesting but to what end. What does she want?

Really great episode and performance by Paddy. Seeing him walk into the throne room and then with Daemon helping him was just so good without really anything needing to be said. It is really something that in the end Daemon did just want to be the one by his side like he said in the first episode. So all the cool dragon tapestries have been replaced with religious ones. Alicent wearing a big faith of the 7 star and having it mounted over the throne. Seems like Alicent is cloaking herself and her family in the faith of the seven as opposed to Rhaenyra’s side. If Alicent can be swayed by that poppy induced vague discussion than she was just looking for an excuse to do what she really wanted. I think Rhaenyra has been more focused on preparing herself and her kids to rule then actually putting into place a plan to be crowned. She is relying too much on the vow people took to have her be named queen without taking into account what happens if parts of the realm don’t want it. Alicent and the Greens have been stacking the small council and the Keep with help to secure Aegon’s coronation but they don’t seem that interested in prepping him to be a King. I keep seeing people why the focus on the prophecy when we know it doesn’t mean anything except we don’t know it doesn’t mean anything. We just know that GRRM seems to think it was important to put in this series but D&D decided to go another way at the end of GOT then what seems to be GRRM’s intent.

Yeah I have never thought they were going to go more than 3 seasons with this story. However, I thought I heard that some of those other stories may just be future seasons of this show. Like a season four could be another prequel like this season kind of quickly telling the story of the time between the Dance and the beginning of the 1st Blackfyre rebellion. With what happens with Luke and Visenya, this is why I thought of ending the season with Jace flying towards Winterfell just to give people something positive to look forward to for season 2. Speaking of season 2 which characters do you think are a must for the show to add for next season? Obviously Cregan, Black Ally, Alys Rivers, Daeron, the Freys and Joanna Lannister.

That video was a well thought out take but I feel it ignores a couple of important points that kind of changes the perspective. First Rhaenyra doesn’t just try to throw her brother, Aemond, under the bus automatically. She is told by her kids that Aemond called them bastards as they are all yelling at each other on who started it. Rhaenyra after this says this was an accident. She tries to deescalate the situation without anything else happening. Alicent doesn’t accept this and says that Luke was trying to murder Aemond and that was why the dagger was brought. Alicent is basically accusing Rhaenyra’s son of premeditated attempted murder. This is when Rhaenyra turns the argument with bringing up Aemond calling her kids bastards. I take her asking for Aemond to questioned sharply as a way to get Alicent to back the hell off accusing her son of attempted murder. Why do I think this was meant for Alicent and not her actually wanting her brother tortured? She knows Aemond isn’t just getting these ideas from no where. She knows Alicent is behind it. Also she knows her father and knows that there is no way he would actually torture his own son. What in this whole show has shown us to believe that Viserys would actually call for his child to be tortured? Hell look at everything Daemon has done and the worst Viserys did was kick him after he thought Daemon had defiled his daughter.

I think people possibly leaving due to Matt Smith is one of the reasons I think they really need to nail the casting of Cregan Stark also some of the other side characters that are going to be coming in soon. Also if I was the writers I would have the last scene of this season I would have Jace flying his dragon and as the Stark’s theme starts we see the outskirts of Winterfell. I know both of these seem too Stark focused but both of these would address some issues fans seem to have been mentioning about the show. Specifically having no one to root for. I have found some of the most rootable characters in F and b are the side characters.

Here is a bit of a weird parallel: there have been two shown funerals on the show so far and a Hightower has snuck out in the middle of the night to claim their ‘dragon’ who had just killed their pregnant partner/rider. Each time claiming the dragon before a female Velaryon could. Regarding the dead guy, do we know he was an innocent? He may have been a criminal or something. I would like to think that even if Rhaenyra was okay with it, Laenor wouldn’t just allow someone who was completely an innocent person to die for him. It was mentioned that Rhaenyra would be a bigamist but technically she wouldn’t. She married Laenor under the faith of the seven and married Daemon under Valaryian traditions. One faith wouldn’t recognize the one marriage as legal while the other faith allows multiple marriages.

This was a really interesting episode. I think the series is definitely setting up reasons for both sides to hate the other. The kids fighting could be blamed on all the kids to an extent but mostly I fill this is more Alicent and Cole’s fault that it went to such extremes. I think Aemond is kind of momma’s boy and seems to have taken in everything she has been telling Aegon. Also you have Criston basically treating Alicent’s and Rhaenyra’s kids differently. Look at the beginning of the episode when he and Jace look at each other. It looks like Aemond wants to say something nice or friendly but he can’t because he has been taught they are stealing from him and his brother and sister. Do have to agree with above posts about Criston and his view of Alicent. I think if Alicent had told Criston what Larys had done Criston would have killed him. He didn’t like the way Larys was continually staring at her ‘unabashedly’. I do wonder what he would have done not only about Alicent’s initial request for taking Luke’s eye but then when Alicent and Rhaenyra were locked up together if Daemon and the other guards hadn’t stopped him? For those saying Aemond didn’t need to lose an eye for the dragon should remember what Haelena said last week that he would only get a dragon when he closed his eye. So maybe he did have to lose an eye. I do think it is interesting that if you really listen to what Rhaenyra and Daemon said at the end, they do basically hint that Laenor’s death was being faked. Daemon telling Rhaenyra that she had to let him and then they mention that the realm will believe them behind Leanor’s death but only they would know the truth and their enemies wouldn’t have a clue.

Yeah it might be nice for more nuanced reasons for a war then just misogyny. However, this looks to be more of a civil war than a revolution or rebellion so those usually are started for one big reason (slavery, succession issues, religion) while revolutions and rebellions have usually a variety of issues that have created a portion of society that wants to bring down the whole government/kingdom.

Yes there will be those who will use the rumors as an excuse to go against Rhaenyra but the opposite is true too. As long as Leanor keeps up the lie, than those already loyal to him and Rhaenyra will remain and also those who feel bound by their word when they swore to Rhaenyra in the first episode. Regarding Alicent and Larys, I think it is a bit much to say she should have known because of all the time they have spent together in the last ten years. I would say that is why it would have probably surprised her. She has probably complained about a lot of people and a lot of things to Larys and he hadn’t taken these actions before. So why would she assume this one time she complains about his father and brother that he would do something. I think that nothing has been done with trying to expose Rhaenyra yet because as bitter as Alicent is I don’t think she wants to go to the extreme she would have to go to to make it undeniable to the king. Because that could mean death for many people including Rhaenyra. She wants Aegon to be named heir officially and then Rhaenyra to go off without any incidents. I think that is why she is getting bitter because the longer the King denies the obvious the longer the realm has to hold their tongues, the greater the possibility Rhaenyra will be crowned after Viserys death.

Regarding building alliances, I think the Hightowers have probably been doing things behind the scene especially since Alicent wore the green dress. I can see Otto taken this as a cue that she was ready. Hell we assume Larys just went off on his own to do what the Queen wanted expecting something in return. What if Otto has already made promises to Larys or at least made alliance with him without Alicent being aware. Otto may not want to have these alliances being made in King’s Landing where people loyal to the King and/or Rhaenyra can find out about. Alicent may have become extreme in the last ten years but I think I understand why it has occurred. It came to me when I was looking at people defending her on Twitter and made a comment about how she is a victim of marital rape. And it made me think, she wouldn’t see it like that. She would see herself as doing her duty as a wife like generations of women had done. When they were young, Rhaenyra’s rebellious nature probably intrigued Alicent and was attractive to her. However, once Alicent got married and has been doing what she sees is her duty in society and Rhaenyra not only is trying to shake up the system by becoming the heir but is flaunting not following society rules. Sleeping with Criston was bad but I think that Alicent may have gotten over it but Rhaenyra doesn’t even fulfill her duty as a wife. She sees herself doing everything that her society requires of her and is seemingly not being rewarded while Rhaenyra is doing all the wrongs things and continuously being rewarded. This is the moment for Alicent though, she has been doing things the right way and being moral. However, now she knows what Larys has done she can either turn him in or shut him out if she wants to continue on her high ground. But if she keeps Larys as a confident and part of her inner circle the she is condoning it and any future actions he does.

Glad we got confirmation on who set the fire that killed the Strongs. I wonder how many of the questionable events from the books are going to end up being Larys did it. Shame it seems like the kids were actually friendly but seems like the adults are going to make them enemies. Though it seems like Aemond was the odd one out. Also it is an interesting choice with how they are portraying Alicent’s daughter. Seems she may be what Viserys wanted to be a dreamer Is Lary’s a green seer or a warg? It is interesting that they are constantly focusing on the rats around the courts and I don’t know if I was seeing things but it looked they were focusing on a bug on one of the assassins.

This 10 year jump has definitely done a number on both Alicent and Rhaenyra. Alicent seems so bitter and petty. Rhaenyra does seem to have lost a little bit of her spirit. Did Viserys lose his entire arm? Rhaenyra offering to marry her eldest son to Alicent’s daughter was probably the best offer to avoid the coming fight that seems to be building. Though the daughter does seem to be very unique. Interesting dynamic with Daemon and Laena. They seemed to have had a good life these last ten years but Laena could sense that Daemon is avoiding King Landing. Sad that Laena died but glad she chose her end and died a dragon riders death. Also sad that it seems like Viserys was somewhat right that the kids all living together could have had them form bonds if it wasn’t for Cole and Alicent seemingly putting up barriers and using the kids in their war with Rhaenyra. Oh another Hand with too much honor and getting himself killed because of it. Plus it got his son killed too. Larys killing them was definitely surprising but adds to his character. Seeing Viserys crying over Aemma’s ring and with Daemon making the opposite decision, really makes Viserys decision the real start point of this whole situation. His guilt over doing it I feel is a major reason why he never tries to change the heir. The constant presence of the rats in every episode has to mean something.

Really liking the series so far. Agree with the fuck Timm sentiment though I can sort of understand. I would be afraid of losing someone like Bix too but not sure if I would rat a person out like that. So even though it is a galaxy far far away, we still have white people going off to distance lands and ‘adopting’ minority children.

Yeah Rhaenyra has a strong backing as well with this marriage to Leanor. He and his mother are both dragon riders and possibly his sister too (I say this based on what we have seen so far, ignoring spoilers/previews). You add Daemon and Rhaenyra’s own dragons that is at least 4 dragons. Then you got the most powerful/wealthiest family backing you. Which is also in charge of the biggest fleet. As others have mentioned you would have the North as the Starks wouldn’t break their oath. There was also another obvious ally that Rhaenyra would have that was just mentioned in this episode. Lady Jeyne of the Vale. Obviously she would want to help keep Rhaenyra as heir despite a possible male heir so that if she would keep her rule over any male contesting for the Vale. While Aegon would definitely have a large backing, it would be a falsehood to think that Rhaenyra at this point didn’t have a pretty good faction backing her as well.

Regarding R/C, I agree the major issue is the power dynamic. However, I don’t necessarily agree that the major issue between how some people interpret it is because of the gender swap of the situation. Honestly it may really come down to a matter of personal exposure/experience. Not sure how to word it but I have lived long enough and watched so much TV/movies where I have seen the same type of scene play out between with a man behaving like Rhaenyra and a woman being reluctant like Criston and it be considered passionate so for me I can see the problems some may have with it but if no one pointed out anything wrong with it I wouldn’t be disagreeing with it either. Do find it funny that Otto keeps telling Alicent that Aegon most be ready to rule because Rhaenyra taken the throne would cause the realm to go to war. Shouldn’t he have been working to calm things down so that Rhaenyra taking the throne would be accepted since you know that was the King’s wishes. That would be something Hand should have been trying to assist with. I think Alicent is angry but I don’t see her ‘declaring war’ as her trying to protect her children or out of anger for the lies. I think the lies have made her realize that in following through with what her father wanted she has lost so much that right now the only thing she can get out of it is her son taking the throne.

This week we learn you can only push Marvin and Kanan so far before they are going to push back and push back harder. Crown should never have been in a private room alone with Marvin again after last week especially without his gun. But not only does he do that he decides to run his mouth. Yeah this Juke and her mom thing is going to end bad. Speaking of ending bad, Burke getting back together with her ex is not going to have a happy ending. Congrats on those who responded to a previous post of mine saying that Burke and her ex would get it on before Marvin and therapy lady. However with how rushed and how very tepid this reunion is, makes me think there is another reason for it. Then with Burke getting too close to the truth and with the previews for next week, I think all the jokes about them looking similar was actually something the show meant to do.

Well only one dead, I say that is successful for a Westeros wedding. Really Daemon you waited until now to kill your wife. What part of keeping private do these people not understand? Ser Christan basically gives up the whole truth without Alicent barely asking the question. Hell she didn’t even ask the question and started blabbing. Should have known a character named Joffrey would be a dumb ass. Seriously why would you even press the issue with Cristin. Oh Alicent maybe we should be asking ourselves why the thought of our friend sleeping with other people seems to distress us to tears. Also I get being upset about lied to but before I really got up on my high horse I would remind you of all those months you went behind your friend’s back seeing her father. Got to hand it to Laena, she certainly went after Daemon.

Well said toddler is the grandchild of the Hand of the King who just happens to be a member of the family Hightower that is the Lords of the land where the Citadel is. Said Citadel where the maesters train and before the Targs invaded was the main seat of power in that region of the Westeros. If Viserys were to die right now, Rhaenyra has very little support behind her. She can only hope that the Lords of Westeros will honor their vow for her to be queen but most of them probably think like the Lannisters that it is a matter of when not if Aegon will be named the rightful heir. So the maesters may see letting Viserys die now while Rhaenyra is an unwed, not well supported and now scandalized young woman would be better then if Viserys lives longer and Rhaenyra gets her shit together. She gets married and has heirs especially male heirs. Now if she is married with the backing of another powerful family and starts creating alliances there becomes a real decision for the Lords when Viserys dies and he never changes his mind about Rhaenyra being heir. Also the maesters would be thinking logically. They are supposed to be men of science and the Targs have magical connections to dragons and are guided by prophecies and dreams. You can see why they may try to overthrow them in this devious way.

I have been listening to the parts of the Dance of the Dragon from Fire and Blood and from watching this show, I find myself really interested in the Strongs. They have subtly been brought in. The father giving very sage advise to the King while the oldest son is brought up as the strongest knight in one episode and the next we see is part of the City Watch which is still considered loyal to Daemon. Then his youngest son, Larys is hanging around the Queen and her court. It seems like they are playing on all sides and for a time look like no matter what they will be close to the power no matter the results unfortunately they also reside in Harrenhal so they are cursed. Which means their main line comes to an end when the show/the Dance ends. Their blood may continue through Dunk and Brianne in later generations. Also watched a really interesting theory video on Larys Strong by Joe Magician on youtube. He has interesting theories about why there is a Weirwood tree in the show when there isn’t one in GOT and how Larys may figure into it. Just from the part I listened to about the Dance, I think it would be wrong to say that Orwyle would try to down play Rhaenyra’s bad qualities or because he was trying to stay alive, it makes his account more truthful. In fact I think it is the opposite. I think the worst things about both sides that he writes about are probably overdone so that he and those he stood with look better. If the leaders of both side are made to look like irrational monsters then it makes him look better for trying to steer them to a better course. He can try and does try to claim that he was acting on behalf of the realm to bring peace and stop the war. It would be different if either Aegon II or Rhaenyra were alive when he writes this so they could defend themselves. However, they are dead so it is easy to lay the worst deeds on them and those survivors will go along with this as it is easier to and cleaner. Plus with Orwyle, you got remember the guy also vowed to take the black to avoid being executed only to run and hide till a friend/ally got in power to help him. I wonder how much the show will expand in the next season or even towards the end of this season. As it has been mentioned in other topics, this show has some very interesting characters but not many that you want to root for. However from Fire and Blood, once the fighting starts a lot of new faces and houses get brought in. Hell there is the one Frey(by marriage), Sabitha, that I think if done right will definitely have fans. There are all the different bastards who become major characters. There are the twin Valeryon girls. I am also really hoping we get to see more of the Starks than just Cregan. I wouldn’t mind if we had an episode or two with the oldest of Rhaenyra’s boys at Winterfell when he goes there asking for support.

Really interesting episode. Kind of sad that we got reconciliations with Daemon and Viserys and Alicent and Rhaenyra only to have one got straight to hell and the other start teetering again. It is interesting that Daemon was willing to let the King believe that he and Rhaenyra had sex as a way to get the King to agree to a marriage. If i had to witness all the problems that Aemma had with all of her pregnancies and then for her to die giving birth, I can see why Rhaenyra is against child birth at the moment and that she sees marriage as only a transaction/death sentence also against marriage. I did find it interesting that she wants to be Queen that she is starting to focus on that and wanting to prevent anything from getting in the way. It seems she fears that getting married will somehow pull her away from becoming queen either by childbirth or by whoever she marries. She walked a very thin line by denying Daemon took her virtue but not really denying that she was still a virgin. She made sure that she got rid of another threat by making the deal to marry as long as Otto was fired. I do sort of agree it is hard to root for anyone in this series especially when you have Rhaenyra basically saying what the small folk think doesn’t matter. I am really wondering what Alicent is feeling/thinking. I felt bad when she tried to make some small talk with Daemon and the King just kind mocked her/laughed at her. Then having to be at the King’s beck and call whenever he has the urge. Then there were all the emotions she had in her scenes with Rhaenyra.