stagmania

Yeah I’m not seeing the contradiction here. Of course she’s not going to say “yo, I went crazy.” She’s going to have some rationalization for it, but the entire frame that the show has given us is that she was emotionally wounded and distraught to the point where just winning wasn’t enough. That’s why it matters that she went ham on innocents after the bells of surrender were already rung - she decided in that moment that she wasn’t satisfied, and she was going to take out her anger and desire for revenge on the civilians of KL.

They literally showed her going crazy and deciding to burn everyone after the bells rang. You can tell yourself that’s not what happened if it makes you feel better, but it’s what the show depicted.

The thing I keep coming back to re: this ending for Dany is how entirely not subversive it is. A powerful woman becoming hysterical and losing her mind (especially over issues of motherhood and love) is a classic trope and about as conventional as it gets, especially when paired with the orphan boy with the destiny being the one to save the realm from her. It’s hard to fathom that this is really GRRM’s big subvert-the-genre ending. Or maybe it’s not, because I don’t expect many older white male writers have enough awareness to avoid this kind of misogyny in their storytelling.

Nothing that’s happened to Jon on the show since his death - the resurrection, the parentage reveal, his attempts in battle - has mattered. He’s like a ghost wandering through his own story, disconnected from any real consequences or narrative momentum. I imagine this is because the show has decided to forego all the prophecies and give the big moments that are clearly meant to be Jon’s to other characters for shock value. So yeah I don’t think this one is on GRRM. Can’t wait for the King Bran memes. The finale is going to suck but at least we’ll have fun.

I honestly feel bad for the production teams who put so much work into episodes 3 and 5, only to have the writing undermine them so badly that it distracted the audience from appreciating their work. Hopefully they’ll win some Emmys as a comfort.

Nope. My friend works for the publisher. No progress, no real timeline in place.

The major reason it's so bad is that they tried to cram about 4 seasons worth of plot into 13 episodes, so no I don't think it would have been as bad as this. The real ideal would have been for D&D to hand off the show to writers who were still interested in it.

What's hilarious about all the people trying to make the argument that this ending is a great subversion of fantasy tropes is that really it's just the opposite. All the empowered women falling to pieces and ending in emotional ruin while the Heroic Men ride in to save the day and end up in power is about as conventional as it gets.

Benioff and Weiss wanted to be done and move on to other projects, so they chose to end the story in a limited number of episodes. HBO wanted 10 full seasons. Imagine how much better it would have been with show runners who were actually committed to seeing it through.

Good overview of the writing problems with this episode, while still giving props for the few things they did well. https://tomandlorenzo.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-burns-it-all-down-after-eight-seasons/

In the end, it seems like the only point was to delay her taking out Cersei until episode 5. Compelling stuff!

This is not true. Cersei lived the vast majority of her life in extreme privilege with massive power over others that she used as cruelly as possible. She lost her children due to her own actions. Dany grew up in exile, impoverished, abused, sold like chattel, raped, always on the lookout for people trying to kill her. People seem to forget that because she's had her own hard won power for the last few seasons, but she had to claw her way there. And now her story is ending with the men she put her faith and trust in gaslighting and betraying her. I have to say, I never expected Theon Greyjoy to have the only coherent character arc in the whole damn story. Good job subverting my expectations on that one, show!

So they're going for the Buffy/Angel tragedy - sacrificing his love to save the world. Except they've written the romance so poorly that it's not going to land. I don't feel sad about this, I just feel angry. Remember a week ago when we all laughed ourselves silly at the idea that she went mad at the sound of bells? Turns out it's a totally fair read on the scene. THIS. The council of fan favorite bros is straight out of bad fanfiction. I guess the "sweet" part is that all the remaining Starks survive in some capacity. Pretty weak. Jon's complete non reaction to learning Sansa had immediately betrayed his trust was so frustrating. And you're right, it does feel like the show artificially constrains characters from reacting reasonably to Sansa's manipulations. This is what's driving me nuts about Tyrion's arc and why his ending ultimately does not sit right with me. He's been wrong about everything and proven to be a terrible strategist for the last three seasons. Where are the consequences for that?

I think they’ll use Bran not being fully human, not “wanting” as the justification and just leave it at that. After the last few weeks I wouldn’t expect them to lay out any kind of coherent argument for this.

These are the spoilers that have fully borne out. A few of the items are grouped together in slightly misleading ways, but all of it happened. And they were originally posted MONTHS ago. Seems clear this will be the ending.

If they’d had him say a few comforting words to her, or attempt to take care of her even as just a friend in this ep, they could have gotten it across. But he just seems wary of her, not worried about her. I think if GRRM ever finished writing the books, this ending would be different not only in the lead up and character arcs but also in the execution of the key moments. No way in GRRM’s version does Dany just decide to kill women and children without us thoroughly understanding her motivations.

Seems like she really upped her game to try to elevate the material where she could. It doesn’t seem like Jon actually does love her, as family or otherwise. If they mean for us to think he does, it’s another storytelling failure. All I get from him is ambivalence and exhaustion.

You’re not alone. Disappointingly executed like most things this season. The only nice thing I have to say about this episode is for Emilia Clarke. She did her damndest to sell the shit material she was handed. I hope she wins an Emmy for the pain.

Holy shit, that was so much worse than I even imagined. They literally offered no motivation or explanation for Dany to lose her shit and try to kill everyone. Once the battle starts she’s just a mostly unseen monster flying around causing mayhem. The core heroine of the show, completely character assassinated by these writers.

Welp. The spoilers are all true. Can’t wait to tune in next week to see Jon kill the crazy bitch, install a council of shitty men and put an end to all these emotional women trying to rule.

I thought Jon dying so Dany/their baby could live was a lock - it’s definitely what season 7 seemed to set up with the love story + quickening womb anvils + frequent reminders of his resurrection. But season 8 has in many ways felt very discordant with where season 7 left off, like they didn’t really have the whole trajectory figured out back then.

I can’t believe nothing has leaked. Really wanted to go into this one prepared for the full scope of awfulness.

One of the filmed endings supposedly involves Jon finding the white walker symbol again as he wanders the north, the implication being that they’re not really gone. Please don’t frame people’s disappointment and anger at this unearned, misogynist ending for Dany as irrational stanning. She has never been my favorite, but I’m absolutely incensed at the way these writers are treating her and it’s putting me firmly on her side. The show has dropped the ball on Bran’s story in numerous ways. They skimmed over his 3ER training and they’ve never been comfortable with his magic or figured out what it means. They’ve turned him into a virtually emotionless blank slate. If he’s really been the endgame ruler all along and they knew that for years, their failings in developing his character become an even bigger betrayal. The Bronn stuff is one of the things that convinces me D&D really just don’t take this seriously. They think people will be happy with a bro council ruling Westeros, a couple fan favorites getting nice endings they absolutely did not earn, and Sansa ruling the north as their one nod to “feminism.”

Here's a theory that pulls some of the leak threads together and offers a reason for Jaime to kill Euron that actually makes sense: "Euron will find out that Jaime is the father of the child, he will be the one who stabs Cersei. Jaime tries to save Cersei and is mortally wounded in the process but kills Euron. Jaime dies in Cersei's arms and they both die together."

You're probably right and GOOD GOD. He killed Rhaegal! That is Dany's revenge to take, or maybe Yara's. But apparently Dany will be too busy going randomly insane and killing innocents for no reason.