stagmania

I had already seen hints of it earlier on, though they were subtle (her conversation with Ed about baggage, her reaction to Abigail's project). I think I mentioned in my posts on previous episodes that there seemed to be some hinting that Bonnie had a darker past than we knew, and that she was going to be important. And her reaction to Perry was very telling-she knew instantly what she was seeing and her protective instincts took over. Do you mean actually show us the words they said in interrogation? Because I thought they conveyed pretty clearly that the women were covering for Bonnie without us having to hear the dialogue. I thought that Madeline comforting her, the ladies agreeing on a story, and all of them together in the end showed us everything we needed to understand. I loved that little glimpse of Madeline and Bonnie after Perry's death. You just know that Madeline has taken her under her wing now.

Wow. I really loved that, even though nothing surprised me. There was something profoundly moving about seeing this group of women come together to protect each other. I'm going to miss this show.

OMG the cuteness. The actor who plays Ziggy is an American theater critic.

This is amazing. I'm going to try some of these strategies on my friends who are still holding out.

For this assignment I thought it made sense, because the woman he's trying to seduce is weary of any male attention, let alone if it came from a very good-looking man. It was the same with Martha-she felt comfortable with Clark and secure in their relationship in part because he was such a nerdy, nebbishy guy. I think there's something to Sistermagpie's idea that women are generally more cautious/suspicious of overly attractive men paying them attention out of the blue, whereas the male ego thinks it makes perfect sense that Elizabeth finds him irresistible. I wonder how P & E would react if they found out Henry has a skill set that will make the KGB more interested in him. Even for Elizabeth, I think the idea that both her children would be sucked into spy life may be too much, especially if it happens in conjunction with a big operation that's going wrong or is based in bad intel. I don't see why they would. Martha was sent there to live in peace; she's not working for the KGB. I really think that little glimpse of her was thrown in just to reassure fans that her ending wasn't a trick and there's no twist coming where we find out they actually killed her. I don't expect to see her again.

I think this would actually be pretty interesting. They assume sex is the easiest way to develop an asset, but that's not going to work on everyone.

I wonder if her pregnancy is what led them to hold off on the reunion until the last possible episode. Can't really do sexy scenes. I kind of forgot about this show for awhile (the network airing schedule is so erratic and I'm just not used to it anymore), so I binged through the last five episodes this week. I thought it was as solid as ever, and I liked the way they played the Jess/Nick/Reagan dynamic. Nick's constant casual and seemingly unconscious remarks about how great Jess is and how he was deeply in love with her crack me up. Listen to the words coming out of your own mouth, buddy.

Yeah I expected that to lead to something, but it didn't. If Paige actually put it together that her parents have sex with other people for their job, we would see a strong reaction.

I kept waiting for the lightbulb moment in that kitchen scene where Paige would realize that her mom is seducing the scientist. It stretches credibility for me a little that she hasn't figured this out yet; does she really think they just become friends with all these people? There were about three different points in this episode where you could see Phillip stuffing the words he clearly wanted to say back down his throat. He doesn't want them to have to honey trap anymore; it bothers him more than it used to. His effort with the Topeka woman was not his best work. Gabriel knows it, too. He basically dared them to come out and say that they don't want to fuck other people anymore. Such an uncomfortable stare down. I'm kind of surprised to see the Centre overloading them again after already driving them to the brink once before. They're going to burn out their top agents, and all that travel has them gone from home way more than they should be. It makes little strategic sense. Surely there are some other attractive young agents that could handle this without having to fly back and forth multiple times a week. I do wonder if this is where we're heading-a final snap as a result of a poorly conceived mission and the arrival of Phillip's son. I really liked that final bedroom scene, with Phillip seeming a little jealous and Elizabeth looking at him like he was crazy and explaining how she actually felt about her target. She doesn't appreciate his nice personality or likability, she resents it! I always love those moments where you get a peek into her thought processes, because I think we (and Phillip) can sometimes be fooled into thinking she enjoys the work in a way she doesn't just because she's so much better at compartmentalizing than he is.

When I saw that place, the first thing I thought was how easy it would be for him to find her and break in. Too close, too visible, too breakable. But I really like this take, too.

I've always thought the rape and Elizabth's reaction to it is really key to understanding who she is. She was raised to believe it was her duty to give herself wholly to the cause, including her body. For the most part, she seems able to compartmentalize the violence and sex she encounters as part of her job, certainly better than Phillip can. But she was traumatized by what Zhukov did and she carried the pain with her for years. Because she's still a person with feelings and boundaries and vulnerabilities, no matter how much some want to pretend she's a robot. Yes, thank you. I really don't understand this reading of Elizabeth or her sex life with Phillip. We know she barely had sex with him for years! She only began to relax into intimacy in her marriage when she developed real feelings and trust for him. This is the kind of thing that comes back to a determination to erase whole parts of her character, which seems to stem from disgust at how she compartmentalizes her emotions for her job.

I've been thinking about this some more. I wonder if there's some sexual abuse in Bonnie's past, and that's why she seems more zen about Abigail's project than the other adults. Not because she agrees with the way Abigail is doing things, but because she feels strongly about the cause and touched that Abigail cares about it. I feel like there's some mystery around Bonnie still to be revealed. Adam Scott has always looked younger than he is. When he first showed up on Parks and Recreation to play Leslie Knope's love interest, I remember thinking it played like she was into a younger man.

I just took it as an easy joke about how obsessed with Adele suburban moms are, and a shorthand way to underline Madeline's relative squareness next to Bonnie's effortless cool. Given that Madeline lives with music obsessed Ed and Chloe, I don't know that I seriously buy she wouldn't know that wasn't Adele, but even the best shows will occasionally undermine characterization for a quick joke. That's a fair point. I don't have a very strong opinion either way on whether Ziggy knew what the song was about or was connecting with it, but I do think it's totally plausible that he's into an old song, and that Chloe is a classic music nerd. They do exist, and some children have too sophisticated an ear for Kidz Bop. :)

I thought Lena Dunham did a wonderful job with that scene. You just know a tiny part of her wanted something from him, and then him barely remembering her and basically shrugging off her life-altering news was brutal. I really felt for Hannah there. That's why I love it-this is exactly the kind of awfully conceived musical that springs up every couple years these days. The basketballs were an amazing touch. I didn't really see that one tiny scene of her leaving Desi a decent message as a sign that she's had some kind of profound epiphany. Marnie strikes me as that kind of selfish narcissist that can never really change deep down, but she can have moments of lucidity. Yeah...they are very different mediums, and not everyone can move seamlessly between them. Jasmine Cephas Jones was great in Hamilton. That's an incredibly narrow view of what is attractive. I doubt Paul Louis not keeping in touch had much to do with any of this; he has a girlfriend and likely forgets about every girl he has random hookups with. And I'll echo everyone else who said that what she does with her pubic hair is her choice and it matters not at all what any man thinks of it. I'm officially putting out an APB on Shoshannah.

Their nanny definitely knows something isn't right. I recall in the first episode that she was giving them an odd look when Perry was pawing Celeste out on their deck. Maybe she just has good instincts, but she seems weary of Perry.

That would be Chloe's parents. Ed appears to have a whole sound system/karaoke set up in their home. I don't know, I feel like Ziggy is smart enough to understand and relate to lyrics like: 'Cause that was the day that my daddy died I never got a chance to see him Never heard nothin' but bad things about him Momma I'm depending on you to tell me the truth He may not get the gist of the whole song, but that right there is pretty obvious. I wouldn't be surprised if he told Chloe about his dad questions and she told him she knew the perfect song. He's going the CBS sitcom route. :/

Thank you for articulating this so well, because it is absolutely a big part of this dynamic some viewers have with Elizabeth. There was a strong preference for Martha (a far more traditional type of female character) and resentment of Elizabeth that necessitated completely distorting the story in front of us in order to justify it, and it really ratcheted up as Martha was leaving the show. There was a pervasive idea for awhile that Elizabeth is the cold, evil bitch who Phillip is stuck with, and Martha was his sweet, loving wife who he could really be himself around. As if he ever did any such thing. @qtpye that's a really interesting way to look at Elizabeth's characterization, and I totally agree that she fits a certain type of old school woman really well. I just don't think it's a type we're used to seeing much in pop culture.

I don't understand this either. I was checking to see if she had any jewelry on that could've cut her, but she was only wearing one flat ring. Are we supposed to think she jabbed her eye with her finger or something?

Where would they even fit that revelation in with only one hour to go? What would be the point of it? Her comment about the BBB was facetious; she was calling Celeste's bluff. I think this is key to understanding why she's being pushy with Celeste. She can feel the big escalation coming and seems to be genuinely afraid for her life. We don't see the whole therapy session onscreen, so I assume there was a lot more to their safety plan discussions, including all the details you mention above. Given her clear understanding of the legal defense that would be used against Celeste and the few suggestions we did see her make, I think we can infer that she's well aware of the dangers and logistics of trying to stay safe when leaving.

While I certainly don't think all or even most bear misogynistic attitudes toward Elizabeth (and certainly not people willing to spend so much time discussing the intricacies of her characterization in a separate forum!), for me it's impossible to miss the way it permeates discussion of the episodes on a near weekly basis. Regardless of what actually happens in a given episode, some segment of discussion is always about what's "wrong" with Elizabeth and the ways she fails in traditional gender roles (mother, wife, etc). There are viewers that seem to truly hate her with such vitriol, and it's nearly always paired with willful misreading of what we see of her onscreen. It's the kind of hate I have only ever seen directed at female characters.

I don't think they're going anywhere with it-I was just asking a clarifying question because I couldn't tell, and her affect was not particularly shouting that she was surprised or also just finding out. And I don't think that her being less alarmed about it would necessarily make her a bad person. It's just an interesting reaction that may speak to some of Bonnie's character and past that we're not as familiar with.

Truly. I hope we're done with the evil Ed theories. He's exactly what he appears to be: a sad dork whose wife isn't that into him. I got the impression that Ed knows, and would prefer not to hear any details or really confront his knowledge at all, thus him asking Madeline to stop confessing. But you're right that it may still bite her in other ways-Abigail is unpredictable and I don't put it past her to use it against her mom when the opportunity strikes. One thing I'm unclear on-did Bonnie know what Abigail's project was all along? I wasn't sure if she'd only just found out herself when she told Nathan. Regardless, I found her affect when she told him a little too blasé and disaffected. I get the feeling that she kind of agrees with Abigail and isn't that bothered by her idea, but knows it's not socially acceptable and so goes along with the necessary parenting steps.

I really appreciate the Jane/Renata detente, and that Jane was generous enough to go to Renata and offer her compassion. It was nice to see another side of Renata come out as soon as she felt someone was on her side. I sincerely hope Robin Weigert will be getting an Emmy for this show. Her recitation of Perry's future legal defense was chilling. There's so much that has to happen next week! I'm going to feel bereft when it's over.

Yeah, I thought of the BB parallels, as well. Audiences are so rough on female characters. And agreed, that interpretation makes a lot of sense to me. Elizabeth and Phillip are super spies, but they're also just people. They both seek comfort sometimes, and not always in healthy ways. I definitely believe everyone here with more knowledge of the language that the show got this wrong. But it is definitely coming from the show, not posters (press reviews are spelling it that way, too).

I'd have to go back and check, but I think they spelled it with a "C" in the subtitles...