maddie965

If I have to watch a very old episode to remember who a supposedly important character is, the writers are seriously fucking it up. I hate what Orphan Black has become. I couldn't care less for all those old plots that never made sense anyway. I couldn't care less about the Others and their stupid monters. I hate that MK's death had no purpose at all. I hate that Art has become a puppet and we don't know how or why. I hate how fabulous Felix is just a distant thought now. I miss the times when I could follow a whole episode without feeling pissed or sad or both. I watch for Tatiana. That's all

Loving the discussion about Toby. I can see everyone's point of view. I guess the only thing that bothers me is when people assume boundaries are the same for everyone. They're not. What is pushy for you might not be pushy for me. Everyone is different. And context matters. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't hate anyone on this show. I love Jack and Rebecca equally and with all my heart. I like Miguel a lot. I love Sophie. I just adore this show and all its characters, flaws and all. They feel real to me. I believe them. And that's all that matters to me.

My turn. I love Toby. I once had a Toby in my life and I loved him. I wish I could have another one now. My point: everyone says that Toby is bad because he doesn't respect Kate's boundaries. But hey, are boundaries really that great? Not from my point of view. When you're shy, or you have self-esteem issues (for any reason, not just weight), sometimes you create all those rules for yourself. And you follow those rules for so long, you start believing the rules represent who you are. And then you build walls so thick and so high, they become impossible to destroy. Unless someone helps you, or grabs you and helps you jump over the wall. I was very shy until my late twenties. So I said to myself I didn't like to dance. I didn't like to sing. I didn't like boys very much. I didn't need friends, or attention, or anything really. Just to be left alone. Then this boy comes along and disrespects all of my boundaries. He takes me to the dance floor, and I love it. He makes me sing at karaoke parties, and I love it. He takes me to trips, introduces me to a lot of people, and I love it. He encourages me to get a better job, one where I can shine, and I do it. He tells me that my rules are stupid all the time. I protest a lot. "Don't make me do what I don't want to!" "Hey, boundaries!" And he ignores me, bless him. Until I realize all he did was uncover everything I already was, but didn't know I was. My point: when Toby disrespects Kate's old boundaries, he's doing her a HUGE favor. She needs to break all the walls she has built for herself, and she can't do it alone. Toby is helping her destroy all of them. Of course he could be a little more gentle or subtle about it. And sometimes he does go to far (football episode, spa). But it doesn't matter because, in the end, no one ever did for Kate what he's doing for her. Do they belong together? Not sure. Will Kate be a happier person because of this relationship? I'm sure of it. I hope we get to see them together for a long time.

I just binge-watched the whole thing and would love to discuss the first season as a whole. Is there a place for that? Thanks.

I binge-watched the whole season in two weeks and was reading this board every day, but didn't dare post until I finished it. And the first place I wanted to post was here. I adore Kevin. I love everything about him. I adore the actor. I adore Kevin's relationship with Kate, with Randall, with William, with Sophie. Every time he's on the screen, he puts a smile on my face. Two of my favorite scenes have Justin on it: the one where he explains the whole concept of the show to the girls and the one he comforts Randall. Justin is amazing in those two moments. I love him so much! I would rather lose Randall than Kevin. There, I said it! Hopefully we can keep both, though. :)

I love Quinn as much as any poster (more, probably), but he threw that woman down the stairs, risking serious injury. He shot against a crowd. He attacked, disarmed and imprisioned a Swat operative. He would be in so much trouble in real life... Of course, since this is Homeland, I expect him to be back (and hopefully in Carrie's arms) by next episode. I loved loved loved when Carrie risked her life (again) to save him. I have no doubt she would have taken a bullet for him. As Quinn would happily take a bullet for her. Their friendship/romance is so fucked up, I love it! I guess Dar's ultimate goal is to make the U.S. go to war - and, in the process, get more power to himself. Now that sounds a little too much like real life to me... Love the comments about the housekeeper. Now SHE should be the real villain behind all this!

I want Connor and Oliver to marry and have tons of babies and come live in Brazil. Please? Michaela and Asher can come too. Asher would love Rio. Frank and Bonnie should go to Alaska. The cold weather would soothe their frozen hearts. Annalise should go to NY to be with Eve, her only true love.As for Nate, he should become a supermodel and make a fortune doing naked pictures. Annalise and Eve would buy all the magazines and have crazy sex while loking at the hot pics. And Laurel should die a painful death, so she could be reunited with the guy she loved for 10 seconds. THE END

I agree wholeheartedly with all of this. This is an old thing. Connor has been carrying guilty and shame for a long time, and the Keating murder only made it worse. I also agree with the poster who said Connor is the most interesting character of the K5. He's the only one who can't live with the idea that he participated in a muder. It's killing him inside, and he'll do everything to make people punish him for it. I feel so much for him, every minute of every episode. I want to hug him and tell him to stop being so cruel to himself (but he would probably lash at me too, LOL!). Someone said Oliver is the key to everything, the one that will bring them down. Maybe Connor and Oliver are the key. They are the heart of the series. Oliver will realize that the only way to save Connor from himself is turn them all in. And then he'll do it, out of love. And maybe Connor will finally find some peace. Question: am I the only one who thinks the show revealed the killer in the final minutes of the episode? First, Bonnie tells Frank: "They are saying Wes died in the fire, and it's not true. Come here, I need you", or something like that. How can she know for sure? She knows for sure because she knows exactly what happened there. She and Frank planed the whole thing together. Then, Frank confesses, because he can't stand to see Annalise in prison. But we know Frank is lying, taking a guilty trip, because, well, that's what he does these days. So this leaves only Bonnie. She did this. She killed Wes. Am I alone in thinking this?

They sound very different in Spanish. And in Portuguese, my language. But yeah, knife through the heart was a little too much, LOL! I love Hopkins reaction to Ford being killed. It IS beautiful, and it brings a sense of closure to the history. Love everything about the finale. I'm all for the hosts killing the humans. Makes sense in the narrative and it's so damn satisfying. I also love Felix. I agre with whoever compared him to the abolitionists. That's it exactly. Go Felix! Free them all!

Thank you. My mother's (and my grandmother's) name is Dolores, so everytime I see her name misspelled, it's like someone put a knive to my heart. I haven't read all the posts yet, but this is killing me. Does anyone think that Arnold might not have existed AT ALL? That it was all Ford, all of the time? Something about double Dolores telling her "It was always me..." But I'm probably wrong. So, in the present Ford decided to go with Arnold's plans and shut down the park. What took him so long? 35 years to realize Arnold was right???

Although I do prefer Bonnie with Frank (please, more of that), I wouldn't object to some Annalise/Bonnie action. I guess any interaction between those three is GOLD to me. My thoughts on Wes: 1. He commited suicide; 2. Frank and Bonnie killed him. Connor was nowhere near that house, IMO. And now that Oliver knows the truth about the Keating5, hopefully our damaged boy can find some peace in his arms... Never thought I would fall in love with Michaela, but I just did. Well done, writers!!!

Yes it is. And that look she gave Bonnie makes me believe there is something sexual between her and Bonnie . Not romantic, but sexual, in a weird "You belong to me" way. Her minions are her slaves in every way. How dare they have feelings, or worst, sex with each other? Some people said the writers killed Wes for the shock value. Hey, shock value is the reason I watch this show. I need for it to be shocking , outrageous , fucked up. Otherwise what's the fun? Wes commited the ultimate crime on this series: he was boring. Now, Dead Wes is so much more interesting! Not as interesting as Alive Frank , but hey, that's tough competition there. Only Bonnie and Annalise are more fascinating than Frank...

Yay, Wes is dead! Frank is alive! I love this show. #verylate

I think that, somehow, putting all the blame on Frank makes Annalise feel better - because she can lie to herself and imagine her life would have been so much happier if she had known the truth. Suddenly, her losing the baby, fighting with Sam, living a miserable life, all of that is Frank's fault. But of course that's a fleeting fantasy created by her delusional mind. If he dies, she'll hate herself (and her life) even more...

Now that would make an interesting show... LOL I don't know why I watch. Guess I should visit the Doom Clinic Where Rejected Doctors Go and see if Never Going to Jail Alex gives me something for my addiction...

You're right, of course. Those are very damaged, messed up people, living very messed up relationships. Which is why Bonnie is right when she says Frank can't kill himself. "She would never survive this. I would never survive this." None of them can't survive without the other two. They're so fucked up, I love it.

Am I the only one who finds the "Frank killed my baby" narrative incredibly contrived? I mean, his actions led to someone deciding to crash on Annalise's car, and that killed the baby. I would argue that Mahoney killed that baby, unintentionally or not. He is responsible. Frank made a mistake , but in no way he's the murderer here (although he is responsible for other crimes). So for Annalise to shout that he killed her baby and that he should kill himself to atone for it seems like a gross exaggeration . She should be mad for all the lies and betrayal. But egging him to kill himself? Ouch! My take: she feels guilty (because tsking the Mahoney case led to the death of his baby) and is transfering all her guilt to Frank. And he's taking it because, well, he's Frank. I so hope he lives. I need more Frank & Bonnie in my life. About Connor: the more damaged, the better. I just love him.

But if she wanted to soothe Wes, make him calm, would she tell him Laurel is pregnant? Why? That would make him freak out even more. It doesn't make sense to me.

The thing is, she tells the person on the other side of the line: "You have to trust me on this", and the way she says it is tender, intimate. There are only two people she would treat this carefully, and one of them is in jail. That leaves only Frank. God I hope he's alive!

Maybe this is nothing, but why does Michaela's mother tell her "You are in shock" and offers to go with her? Is she saying that because of the news on TV? Or did something else happen that we're not aware of? Funny, I spent two seasons hating Frank, and now I can't stand the idea of him dying. I love the tragic figure he turned into. And I love the twisted romance between him and Bonnie. I want more of that. Please, show, don't make me say goodbye to Frank! Now Connor, I've always loved him. Maybe it's the actor, but I'm crazy about him, always was. If he goes, it will be very difficult for me to keep watching. Never cared about Wes, never will. Such a waste of time and space. Most of his scenes creep me out - don't even get me started at that "love" scene with Laurel! DNW. Please let it be him under the sheet!!!

I guess I'm coming here from a completely different place because, for me, what matters is how the hosts feel. Because they do feel. Whether they are becoming sentient or not. For them, what they do every day is real life. They know nothing else. They get up, they interact with the people they know and love (for them, the love is real), they fight, they get hurt (and they feel it in their bodies), they see loved ones die (and they suffer for it), they die (in pain, like a human would). For them, everything is real. And I don't care it if was programmed or not, they don't know that. From their point of view, they are living REAL lives. Think Blade Runner here. For me, it's the same thing. So, for me, guests who fail to treat them as human beings are ethically wrong. Those are not people I would respect. In fact, I would despise them. I don't care what the law says, they would be wrong in my eyes. And yes, for me it would mean that they're capable of doing those horrible things outside the park as well. I see no difference at all. They are ethically and morally wrong, and a disgrace to the human race. For me, anyway.

Frank and Bonnie made me cry. Twice. I want to watch their show.

One of the problems I've always had with Grey's is that it's not an ethic show. Ethics or honesty or decency don't really matter here. It seems to me the authors don't really know the difference between right and wrong, and they don't care. Their characters can do pretty much anything, and there are no consequences - or there are only consequences for the actors/characters the authors dislike. So doctors can refuse to treat patients for any reason (he's a criminal, he's annoying, he's cute, he's ugly). Doctors can commit fraud on medical trials and it's OK. Mothers can put their children at risk or submit them to stressing, traumautic situations and it's OK. Surgeons can cut open patients in corridors with no justification at all and it's OK. So yeah, Alex can beat up a guy for NO REASON at all and it's OK. I mean, of course he's upset. Poor guy is working at the clinic. It doesn't matter that he could have taken out a life, or that he hurt the person he used to love most, or that he used violence so brutal none of us would stand it in real life. He's cute, right? Let him get away with it. Why not? April, darling, if you're bored, take your baby elsewhere, but not inside a hospital full of sick people. You know better. Amelia and Maggie, you're not Meredith's sisters. In fact, you're no one. Just disappear, will you? Authors, it seemed to me the real story of that episode was the relationship between the walking dead mother and the prodigal daughter. So how about a scene where they finally reunited? Was that too much to ask? ETA. Sorry, didn't mean to sound so angry. I do love Alex, I do love Justin, I still (kind of) love Grey's. But it seems like they forgot how to tell a good story. Or what a good character looks and sounds like. God how I miss Cristina! Wonder what Sandra Oh is up to these days...

I thought that was one of the worst episodes of GA I've ever seen. I see nothing remotely real about the way they are handling Alex situation (he should be devasted by guilty and not able to talk to Jo at all), or DeLucca situation (he should be traumatized and talking to people about what happened), or Jo situation (she should be feeling guilty and scared, not just angry). And that triangle is just a (bad) joke. I wish Maggie would die, so I wouldn't have to listen to her voice ever again. And I wish Meredith would have mindblowing sex with Riggs and then send him away for good. End of story. The only good scene was with Alex and Bailey. Very realistic, I thought. Until I heard Bailey ask Alex if he wanted to get fired. Did I dream this, or did Cristina give Alex her share in the hospital society, a long time ago, when we were told the doctors owned the hospital? How could he be fired if he's a partner? Or are we supposed to forget that it happened at all? I swear, this show...

That actually makes sense. And I did like the humanization of Sarah - my favorite episode is the one where she goes into autodestruction mode. I guess I don't like when she's just being bitchy (most of her scenes with Felix) or plain stupid (going to the island alone to save Cosima). And I missed her being around the other characters more - the interactions usually soften her personality. But yeah, I guess it was intentional, so I can live with it. It's not like I don't have many characters to love. (LOL that, for a few seconds, I thougth that Tatiana, being the producer, wouldn't want Sarah to be unlikable, since she is the actress playing her. And then it hit me...)