vanarnd1

I thought there were some really good moments in this episode but it was very frustrating at the same time. The writers give us all of these meaningful Ichabbie scenes and highlight their chemistry during the episode, just to do the Betsy Ross twist at the end? I actually thought they did a good job with Betsy Ross for most of this episode because I thought they were completing the character arc, but to bring her back like that at the last second is just ridiculous. They just can't help themselves in trying to put more things in the way of any chance of Ichabbie getting together. This is bad even if they had assurances for a season 4, but if the future of the show is uncertain, going this route is a slap in the face to the fans. As for the rest of the episode I did like the Erza reveal, but the plot was kind of scattershot. Like others said there was this sudden sense of urgency with the hourglass, but Abbie & Crane were taking their time in the Catacombs and it didn't feel cohesive. Danny's integration to the team wasn't really smooth, although it will be interesting to see what happens with the reveal of the evil FBI director. I have mixed feelings about Joe dying, I thought it was well acted, but now there will be the emotional aftermath to deal with and it kind of undoes the entire season of Joe/Jenny getting together and getting closer. Plus I don't know how all of the sudden the HO could turn Joe into a monster when supposedly it had been removed from him. I am still looking forward to the next week to see how they wrap things up, but I am not happy about having to go watch the Danny/Abbie and Ichabod/Betsy moments in what could be the last episode of the series.Even if the show is renewed, I am going to feel very ambivalent about watching another season since it seems like the writers didn't learn from Season 2 and are still insistent on teasing the fans while not actually delivering. Maybe next week will be really good and will change my mind, but TPTB are using up people's last bit of patience at the worst possible time.

Yeah exactly. Unfortunately I think TPTB have been opportunistic and used the potential of Ichabbie to try and draw in viewers during the middle part of the season while never intending to get them together. It is a shame they would do that to the fans especially after what everyone went through in Season 2, but either they have some creative aversion to bringing them together, or they want to stretch it out as much as possible for financial gain, which are both bad reasons. I am not sure about anyone else, but when Abbie told Ichabod in the museum she needed to tell Danny so they could be in a relationship, I was really caught off guard. It came out of nowhere and for her to say it casually in front of him, makes me wonder if I was watching the same show the writers were all this time.

Like other people, I don't have as much of a problem with the idea of Danny/Abbie as I do with the execution and timing of it. i mean earlier in the season they seemed to be clear that Abbie had past feelings for Danny but that she wanted to move on and not complicate their working relationship. Then starting from the midseason premiere after Abbie came back from the catacombs, they began to tease Ichabbie, and now out of nowhere Abbie definitively wants to start a relationship again with Danny. The timeline and pacing doesn't add up, and to do this in what could be the last few episodes of series is just misguided when TPTB knows how invested their audience is in Ichabbie. And it is further compounded by the lack of screen time and dialogue Danny has gotten. If they wanted to go this route, why didn't they do it earlier and give more backstory on their relationship in Quantico so the audience could become invested in them? It seems like they are doing what every other shows does, using the main character's chemistry to tease the viewers, but not being willing to actually put them together. And it is a shame because a lot of the episode was good. Pandora was great separating herself from HO, Joe/Jenny were better with more reasonable screen time, I actually liked the Betsy Ross tie in with the plot in what ironically could be the last episode we see her, and it was more fast paced action/supernatural than we have seen for much of the season. I am not sure what to make of Erza Mills yet, it is odd how he shows up uninvited constantly but at least they are trying to give more backstory on the Mills family. I am not sure what their plans are with Danny/Abbie to end the season, like others have said, it will prob involve the evil FBI guy and maybe they are going for the emotional beat by killing off Danny in the finale, but either way the writers are sending a clear signal that Ichabbie isn't going to happen. And if they really felt so strongly about not going there that is fine, but to write the season the way they have and to get everyone's hopes up just to do a sudden U-turn right at the end is very disappointing to say the least.

I agree, Possibilities, I think the best comparison for SH is to other FOX dramas, and to focus on the 18-49 rating. The thing that has changed is that other non-rating factors have become more important since ratings as a whole have dropped across the board. For instance, Lucifer, a fox drama, got a 1.2 in its last episode while Sleepy Hollow got a .8 last week. That is a big percentage difference, but how much does that extra .4 in rating matter in terms of advertising revenue to the network? While on the other hand Sleepy Hollow is much closer to syndication and is owned by the network while Lucifer is not. It is hard to tell what is a higher priority for a network. The margins are so small that as you said it come come down to something like the income level of the show's audience. The thing I come back to is does FOX really think they would do better with another show on a Friday? Their schedule is already thin and they are losing American Idol for next season, you would think it would be valuable to have a show that has been steady on a Friday and that has incentives to keep producing more episodes. Unfortunately like last year, we might not find out until after the season as it seems like it is going to be a close call either way

This was an uneven episode for me. There were parts mixed in I liked, but also some underwhelming stretches. Abbie/Pandora and Ichabod/HO had good interactions, Sophie was mixed in effectively enough, but the plot kind of sputtered. We had the very limited COTW with the Banshee, and more HO/Pandora angst with little Ichabbie. Overall not a great formula IMO. And like others I think the amount of screen time for Joe/Jenny is jarring. It is a shame because in some ways the writing for it is really good, they have lowkey, comfortable moments together like at the end, and they show genuine concern when the other is in danger, something I think other procedural/fantasy shows gloss over in order to maintain humor, but the lack of build up and chemistry in their relationship just doesn't sell it to the viewer. And it is unfair, but when you have the lead characters who a lot of people want to see together, it almost feels like the writers are trying to pacify us by showcasing a secondary romance but not going all the way and getting Ichabbie together. I am guessing there has to be a filming time/logistical issue, as this is back to back episodes we have not seen much of Mison and Beharie on screen together, but I hope that doesn't carry over to the last few episodes. I am really hoping for a more clear HO/Pandora split and clear Ichabbie signaling next episode

I am in agreement with other people in this thread who have said the best part of the episode was Annalise and her mom interacting. I was wondering how they were going to wrap up the Hapstall case and it just felt rushed. They had set up so many red herrings that any of the Hapstalls could have been the killer and there were going to holes in the story. Like if Philip was innocent of all the murders, why did he not come forward with the evidence against Caleb sooner and why did he blackmail Annalise? And like others have said having Caleb off screen and than all of the sudden revealing him as the murder and having him die took some of the drama out of the reveal. I suppose they needed to get closure and wrap things up, which is the end is better than stretching it out any further. I thought they really did a good job on the emotional beats with the other story lines, and how the loss of Annalise's baby had so many repercussions. I am interested in seeing how happens with Frank/Wes regarding the Mahoney murder as well. Cicely Tyson was amazing and I appreciated how unlike what might happen in most shows, Annalise didn't reconcile with her father. The family moments in Tennessee felt very realistic and conflicted like a large family gathering would have. The one thing I am hoping for is next season there is more character moments and less focus on an overarching plot. I think there is still so much more room for development and backstory with many of the characters that can carry episodes more than the next murder mystery.

I agree with others this episode didn't hold my interest as much as previous ones. The Danny/Abbie just didn't seem to lead anywhere or have a clear narrative. I think the show uses subtext too much already, but it was especially apparent considering we have gotten very little backstory on Danny as is. And it did seem odd timing to have this episode placed where it was considering they have been building up Ichabbie over the last few weeks. I liked the Sophie/Abbie interactions, but Joe/Jenny are getting overexposed by getting so much screen time. Maybe it was unavoidable because they weren't going to have much Crane this episode, but it just seems like there is no real pacing/spark to their relationship. I am also unsure what to think of the symbol being for good, as it takes away from the build of it possibly influencing Abbie for evil and the conflict that could have. I am happy though that it seems like we are getting closer to a HO/Pandora split, as it has been long overdue at this point. I will give the show a break, as I assume they were hamstrung due to something with Tom's schedule, but I hope things get back on track next week with more plot movement plus more Ichabbie

The hospital and ending montages were great and Viola is amazing. One of the best things about this show is how the characters portray raw emotion, they act as how people would to trauma in real life IMO. I laughed when Bonnie said "we are all bad people, that is the only thing we have in common" it was so on point. Annalise how some funny comedic lines as well. I honestly have no idea what is going to happen with any storyline. We still have to confirm/find out who murdered the Hapstalls, where Caleb/Philip are, what Wes will do about Mahoney, the Oliver/Connor tension, if Annalise will confront Frank about Lyla, if the police will get evidence on them, and whatever we saw Annalise discovering at her mother's house lol. this is going to be a crazy finale

For considering some of Fox's shows get .8 and .9s on Monday through Thursday, you would think having a show that can hold a .7 on a Friday is reasonable A few things to note from Fox, Bones was renewed for a 12th and final season, but it was only for 12 episodes. So I don't think that would negatively affect SH's chances of getting renewed too much as they will still need to fill time during the TV season and for the following year. Also Rosewood, which seems to be in good shape, got a .9 when it aired without Empire last week. It airs the next few weeks without Empire and if it slides anymore, it could potentially open up a slot for Sleepy Hollow. While I still feel it could get canceled, Sleepy Hollow has more of a chance than I would have thought when they announced the Friday move.

I liked the episode overall, as others have said the subtle Abbie/Crane moments had very good acting from Nicole and Tom and we really saw a change in Abbie's demeanor, a realization that she needs help. This is the kind of episode that really highlights the Ichabbie chemistry and how they could be as a pairing. I was liked Leeds as a villain, he had more personality and backstory than most of the MOTW we had seen. He could have been interesting as a recurring bad guy if they had gone that route. I wasn't as much into the other parts though Like has happened over the last few weeks, the HO/Pandora was not made either character look good. I am hoping we see a split between them soon. And the Joe/Jenny stuff felt forced and took up too much of the episode. I think they could have fit in Daniel/Sophie to balance things out a bit. next week's episode looks intense though and hopefully will move the storyline along.

The thing I have always liked about this is the confrontations and honest conversations the characters have. The Annalise/Eve and Annalise/Laurel arguments were some of the highlights of the episode. The exchanges are a lot of times hurtful but they feel honest and realistic. And I am looking forward to learning about how happened to Annalise's baby/ the Ohio Case plus the Hapstall case. I think having both plots at once helps keep the episodes engaging. The suspense in that ending scene is how of the draw in this show as well. I didn't see it coming that Philip would be there and it raises an interesting question of why he is in Wes's apartment. And it was interesting that everyone is almost accepting of their fate, from Frank and Bonnie to Michela and Connor, it feels like a house of cards that is going to tumble down at some point. I am looking forward to what they do in the last two episodes.

Yeah I agree. All of the characters acknowledge she is going through something, but we don't really see anyone asking for specifics on how she is doing. I guess they are setting up for a reveal in the next few episodes, but it made a lot of the dialogue seem kind of clunky. The episode was solid, I like the reveal at the end with the evil FBI guy and what will happen with Abbie. Nevins was a better change of pace for a villain, but the secondary character stuff didn't work for me as much. It seemed kind of abrupt for Jenny.and Abbie to meet their father, considering he was in Sleepy Hollow and could have contacted them if he had wanted to meet. And it is also a little cliche how Danny as the boss is in the dark about so much, it seems like a plot contrivance at this point. I agree with others, the way they were able to defeat the monster was too easy, but that is likely just unavoidable with a show like this. I think kind of like last week and for parts of this season, they are building toward something big but the episodes it takes to get there are a little clumsy IMO.

I am not sure if they are nesscarily retconning Frank. Didn't we see in the Season 1 reveal that Sam called him on a payphone and demanded that frank kill Lylia? I agree he didn't seem too remorseful while he was doing it, but we could learn that Sam was holding something over Frank that would explain his blackmail comment. I thought this episode worked better having Wes and Laurel separately from the rest of the group, it allowed each storyline to breath more. I kind of feel conflicted about where they are going though. I mean teasing that Wes might have killed his Mom upon everything else is just so much, even though I do find the storyline interesting. And with the Philip/Hapstall case, they have lied so many times it has gotten so deep and hard to keep track of. I actually felt bad for Caleb in this episode with how easily he was misled. It seems like it will stay this way for the last few episodes of the season, but I hope they find a way to make the show less dark next season.

I agree, I still enjoy the show a lot but I could see how it can get to be too much for viewers at some point. And I don't really know what the show does from here. They are teasing the Annalise/Wes backstory, but how long can Wes really remain on the show considering he is pretty much at a breaking point? The problem with making all of the characters do bad things is that at some point they reach a point of no return. I feel like there almost has to a reset at the end of the season, but what they really have a different murder next season with new characters? It seems like the limits of the show's premise are starting to show themselves.

I didn't enjoy watching this episode as much as the previous two, mainly because there was a lot of Zoe/Betsy Ross but plot and less character interaction. I did find it interesting where it ended up though. I think the conversation between Abbie and Daniel was for him to resolve his feelings toward her and move on, and like others said, Ichabod had a chance to officially resolve and break things off with Zoe, essentially setting the stage for Ichabbie. It will be interesting to see how they set it up over the next few weeks especially since they are showing Abbie dealing with the after effects of what happened to her. I don't think this episode did a good job with the other characters though. I agree with others that I thought Joe was inconsiderate trying to pressure Jenny into seeing her father, he seemed to be projecting his feeling of regret onto her, which is not the type of advice you should give something you care about. The Pandora/Zod dynamic hasn't made either character look good IMO but it seems like they are keeping with the same trend of her being weakened to prop him up. And it seems like Sophie's main role is just to be the go between for the supernatural and FBI, but I am not sure how they will use her now that Abbie is back working. I am hoping that next week's episode is smoother now that they have tied up some loose ends.

Nicole Beharie's acting in this episode was amazing. She did a great job showing a range of emotions both verbally and non verbally and really made it believable to the audience what Abbie was experiencing. It can be hard having to pull that off mostly talking to yourself but she knocked it out of the park. And they really hammered home how Ichabod and Abbie are in tune and compliment each other with how they solve problems. I agree with others I had mixed feelings about the reunion scene. It kind of reminds me of what happened in shows like Bones and Castle, where they would have the main pairing get so close and go through a life or death experience, but then find a distraction or a reason to pull back at the last second. I wish they would just go for Ichabbie right now because there could only be 8 episodes left and I think if anything people would be more interested to see them in a romantic relationship rather than teasing for the next several weeks. I thought it was somewhat clumsy how they introduced the Jenny/Sophie conflict. As others have said she seemed to suddenly be the expert and acting as if she has been on the team the whole time. I can forgive it for one week because they needed to fill time with Abbie/Ichabod separate from the group but I hope that gets balanced out in the next episode. And the Zod/Pandora continued to go in the wrong direction IMO. Maybe it will turnaround and Pandora will turn on Zod, but right now it kind of cheapens the whole build up of Pandora in the first half of the season. I think this episode showed how the acting of Beharie and Mison can elevate the show, I just hope the writers can do them justice the last half of the season

A .9 exceed my expectations, I was worried the new time slot would cause a big drop. The fact that FOX renewed Scream Queens, which was getting a .9 rating in the Tuesday slot in its first season has to mean Sleepy Hollow has a chance to be renewed if can remain stable. I just hope FOX hasn't already made up their mind by the fact that they switched it to Friday because last night showed there is still interest in the show

I liked the episode overall. It had a different feel to it, but I liked the emotional beats.I could see why people thought Joe/Jenny happened quickly. but i thought it was character development for Jenny to show vulnerability that we hadn't seen previously. And I thought Sophie/Ichabod had good working chemistry and that helped to carry the episode. The writers did a good job of showing a sense of urgency and despair over if they would find Abbie which helped bridge the gap for an episode that didn't have her on screen. I am not really liking the direction they have taken with Pandora. As others have said she is all of the sudden taking orders and being threatened and it has diluted the aura her character had early on in the season. I am uncertain of where they really go from here with dynamic And while I did like Ichabod's desperation to find Abbie, it was a bit much to have it tie back to another flashback. Maybe there was no other way to do it, but we have seen him talk about his crisis of conscience during the revolutionary war many times already it seemed like overkill along with giving screen time for Betsy ross All in all I enjoyed the episode but like others have said, lets have Abbie back on screen ASAP

Yeah I think the issue is once Irving was no longer the police chief there was not really room for him in the overall story . I liked the dynamic of him, Abbie, and Crane working together in Season 1 but sticking him in Tarrytown for a large portion of last season was a mistake, and I am not sure how he could have been used even if they brought Orlando back considering he would have being an accused murderer to deal with. I think in the end the show did the right thing in having Abbie,Crane, and Jenny as the only holdovers from Season 2 and pretty much starting over otherwise

This episode was mixed for me. I liked the emotion of the episode and the acting (especially by Nicole) was really good, but the way things played out left something to be desired. I appreciated how much Abbie wanted to be there for Jenny, but I didn't like how she ended up sacfricing herself similar to the Season 1 finale. Also I wish we have seen her be a little more conflicted about her job. Not that she wouldn't do what she needed for Jenny, but just show that she would have some pause about potentially losing what she worked so hard for. I would have liked to see Abbie and Jenny have gotten more scenes spaced out over time to discuss their issues, because the way they did it with the big moment at the end of the fall finale just seems to always leave Abbie carrying the burden and having to take on things herself. And in a similar way based on that CC interview if they are really going to push Ichabbie in the second half of the season, they could have paved the way during the first half by allowing the witnesses to have deeper conversations instead of giving us Zoe taking up screen time. I think things will end up working out, Abbie be back likely in the spring premiere, and I am assuming she will get her job back (especially with that phone call Reyonlds had), but I feel like there were some missed opprotunties in how they set the stage for this episode and some emotional beats that were rushed or not really fleshed out

I agree, I think the issue is the show has spent a season and half giving us backstory on these characters, but now at this point how can they all stay around? With Wes they just gave us a tease into Annalise's involvement in his childhood, but how can he even co-exist on the show at this point? Are they somehow going to have him work on Annalise's cases even though he shot her in the chest? How would Connor go back to working for Annalise at this point? The circumstances have gotten so far out of control that there has to be a shakeup of some kind, but changing too much could damage the show as the cast is really great overall. I was floored by last night's episode, but I am worried how they plan to keep things going in the second half of the season

It is possible they are saving that until the spring premiere. We saw flashforwards with Nate and the Keating 4 in the car driving away as well as Frank in the hospitial that would be presumably in the future as well. The whole episode was insane, but the scene with the gun, the desperation of Annalise was played so well by Viola, I haven't ever seen a moment quite like that

I thought this was one of the better episodes of the season so far. We got forward movement on the main story line and got good interactions with main 4 characters. I liked the more personal moments between the respective pairs of characters (Jenny/Joe, Abbie Jenny, Joe/Crane etc.) and that there was a good mix of seriousness and humor. The lack of SBR and Zoe allowed the episode to breathe more IMO. I am glad they raised the stakes at the end of the episode and it seems like there should be a lot of action in the midseason finale. I am interested in seeing the result of Sophia being an undercover agent. There will likely be a lot of conflict between Daniel and Abbie as they both were secretive about their actions. I hope there is more of a continued focus on Abbie's career as seemed to be teased tonight. The Jenny/Joe stuff came up kind of suddenly, but I am guessing there will be a little bit of a reset with what is happening to Jenny. And the Crane/Abbie interactions were sweet, but like Indi said it is the same dynamic where Abbie is the one comforting Crane, and I would like to see more of him returning the sentiment in the future. Overall though I liked the episode and hope we see a continuation of this next week and going forward the rest of the season.

I don't think really think you can say that Season 3 creatively or fan reaction to any event caused the show's decline. Looking back on it, Season 2 really did end up being the show's demise, even if they got 18 extra episodes after it. This season premiered to a 1.0, which is partly because FOX didn't go out of their way to promote but I think a lot of it just people checked out of the show because of the CFD in Season 2 despite the late improvement in the last 2 episodes. Even if Season 3 had been perfect, TPTB were fighting an uphill battle from the start and it was just too much to overcome. Now despite that, in a lot of respects CC and company did not do themselves any favors with the some creative chocies plus how they engaged the fans. They still insisted on giving Ichabod a past and a present love interest despite what happened with Katrina, and the show hasn't really changed the dynamic where Ichabod is shown as being the more promient character (either through his role as witness or the more in depth focus on his relationships/emotions) even though Abbie often times props him up, and they were aloof and dissmissive of fans concerns, including not addressing/notcing potential racist tropes. And in regards to shipping, I think people were annoyed not as much by not doing Ichabbie right away, it is that they would tease the audience by dropping the idea of a possible relationship, while not really having the intention of doing it. I think fans reacted to that CC interview because they are tired of being strung along and I can't really blame them. I mean even in Season 2 they would use Ichabbie cold opens to tease the fans while giving Ichabod his true love story with Katrina, and I think they are doing similar things now. And I think people would even be happy if they weren't together but they gave Abbie's love life as much of a focus as Crane's but that has not been the case. I think if there is something to take from this, its that showrunners and people in charge need to actually listen to fans. There were warning signs from the fallout from the Season 1 finale, there was very clear outrage for most of Season 2 that could have been addressd much sooner, and Campbell could have taken more lessons of what not to do from Season 2 but has fallen into similar patterns as Goffman. The show realistically couldn't maintain the momentum from Season 1, but with better management the whole way through it could have hung in for longer than 3 seasons. Hopefully at least other shows can take lessons from SH, and espeically in regards to diversity as LydiaMoon1 said.

I agree and I think the problem is Campbell and company have acted like Season 2 didn't happen and they were coming in with a clean slate. They thought just because Katrina is gone fans would be happy and they wouldn't have to address any other issues. And they acted so surprised that fans didn't like the idea of Betsy Ross when the character was spoiled, and I just don't think they understand their audience much at all. They still preach patience but don't take into account that fans have been hearing that for over a year and that the issues in regard to Ichabod and Abbie are still repeating themselves to an extent this season. I like the show more this season, but you can still see the flawed mindset that Ichabod needs to have his romantic life focused on and be the driving force of the show. Since they seem hopelessly stubborn on that front, at the very least the writers and everyone involved in the show should stop trying to argue/justify things to the fans and just take a break from social media as you said.