AustenChick

I kind of wish they just had Samantha have a husband -- a guy that has already been a father to William. Then Oliver would be torn about being a father to William himself or leaving his kid in a happy family away from his world. In this way, I could see Oliver stepping back and leaving William alone and not telling Felicity. I also think it might have been slightly more interesting. But well, whatever. But anyway, I was ticked Oliver lied, but for some reason, I always want to defend him. I think back to the Lost Souls episode when Oliver tells Felicity that this entire relationship thing is still new to him and how he's still new at it. Look, if we're honest, Oliver has been like the perfect boyfriend for 7 episodes. But since he's still new at this relationship thing, I can see how he's going to eff up. I mean, the dude really hasn't ever had a fully functional loving relationship. Oliver has lost almost everyone that he loves. From the premiere of this season, I think they've set up Oliver being insecure about their relationship. He wants to marry her, but finds out she wasn't all blissed out with happiness when they were away. He sees her working way too much and doesn't know how to reach her so he reaches out to her mom without telling her so Donna can Felicity figure stuff out. Oliver says, "I don't know why she chose me." I think he's still that way. Unsure she wants to completely be with him. Yes, she's told him time and again how much he loves him, but since Oliver has never really had that kind of love before, he questions it. They've known each out for three years or more, but they've only been together 6 months. I mean, that's still young in relationships. Even one as epic as theirs. I've been in a relationship for 15 years so that's how I can say this. But the first year of the relationship is always the hardest, especially for someone that's insecure as Oliver. I was the insecure one in the relationship and I kept mucking it up because I didn't know how to function in a relationship. Oliver isn't perfect. Felicity isn't either. The difference is that Felicity is more able to open up when Oliver presses her to. They've already shown how she's the one person he can't stand to lose. Therefore, he'll do anything to keep her. Even lie. As dumb as the lie is. I just wish they've let Oliver and Felicity be like the Eric and Tami Friday Night Lights couple of the superhero world. A solid relationship that has emotional ups and downs that don't include lying about secret children.

I said this awhile back but reading through all this -- I'd like to say it again -- I think Oliver and Felicity should be the Coach Eric and Tami Taylor of the comic book world for s4. They're the steady couple you can count on with real relationship issues and problems. If you think about it -- they're already kind of there -- besides Diggle, Felicity and Oliver have helped nurture and encourage all the new masks. I'm not saying they'll be the mom and pop of the comic book TV universe -- cause that would be weird -- but the steady rock they people can count on (like Diggle has been for Oliver and Felicity). The two of them have both helped Barry, Laurel, Roy, and Ray all find their way in the hero world.

I'd like to state that I'm a comic book fan. I've read and love GA comics and I thoroughly love Felicity. I see the comics and TV show as two different entities and Felicity is a creation that is from the TV show. She's a character that works in this interpretation of the Green Arrow and she has great chemistry with the cast. I think that in the TV show, she's the love interest that has always made the most sense to me for Oliver -- comic canon or not.

So, I've been reading a lot about what people have been saying on this ep. Yes, this season did have problems and the character arcs were at times a bit fuzzy, but I will say what Arrow tries to do is what I admire about it best - it always tries to go big or go home. it's one of the most ambitious plotted shows out there (IMHO) and that's why I give it a pass for any stumbles on this ep or this season. I wonder in general if people are kind of not into love stories on action shows in general -- is that why this ep is getting a bad rep? Because it's Olicity heavy? I mean, I'm a romance gal so I loved it, but I do wonder.

Also, it's not like this is the first time they drugged Oliver. Remember in last season -- City of Blood? Oliver was planning on giving himself up to Slade and committing suicide, but Dig, Felicity and Laurel decided to tranq him and drag him back to the lair to stop him. Kind of the same situation really. Oliver thought he had no choice, no agency, have given up -- but Dig, Felicity and Laurel wouldn't let him -- even if it meant drugging him.

It is funny that the ONLY person I've seen Laurel have chemistry with -- like romantic chemistry with -- is yet another one of Sara's lovers -- Nyssa. Were they trying to go for the sexy vibe? Because Laurel's passionate defense of Nyssa felt, well, more than just "we're friends that train and beat other people up."

I'm wondering how people view the Oliver/Malcolm relationship. One of the things I'm trying to wrap my head around is why Merlyn does just face Ra's himself. Does Merlyn actually think Oliver can defeat Ra's even though Merlyn trained under Ra's? If he did, I guess it's a valid POV as Oliver did beat Merlyn.

I like Arrow and don't mind how the storytelling is now. I just miss humor. I think they're trying to use Roy in the group dynamic to fill in the gap. But I miss Felicity and Oliver's quipping. It just made things a little lighter. Now, it's just Roy. Kind of.

I'm going to say Olicity been handled fine this season. (So I'm 7? 8?) Here's how I look at it - someone used the word transference when describing Felicity and Ray. That Felicity was often transferring feelings re: Oliver to Ray. Flip that thought around and apply it to Ray. Ray couldn't save Anna, but now Felicity is there. He was able to save her. When these two people look at each other, I think they like each other as people, but I don't think they really see each other. Felicity is seeing the Oliver she wants in Ray and Ray is seeing the Anna he can save in Felicity. By going by this logic, I can understand why they seem to be reaching for each other -- they're seeing what they want to see in each other. But does Felicity really know Ray? Does Ray know her? Not really. Felicity's speech re: Ray to the business people in Draw Back Your Bow is really sounding like she's talking about Oliver. Also, she's coming up with that speech right after she checks in on Oliver's reaction after she mentions her dinner with Ray. She also says that speech after Diggle tells her Oliver is upset she's spending time wiht Palmer. Look at Left Behind -- Felicity got upset at Ray because Oliver was gone -- she wasn't speaking to Ray, but the Oliver that was no longer there. If you think back to Felicity's interactions with Ray, they are really all in reaction to stuff that's gone down with Oliver. I didn't see that Ray was doing the same thing until in Left Behind when he got pissed at Felicity re: her saying what Anna would have wanted. In the next ep, Midnight City, he's able to save her from Brick and his crew. Then he tells her that he's not doing this for Anna, but now to protect her. It's all about transerference. Or, that's at least what I'm telling myself until Oliver and Felicity get over their issues and make out properly.

Happy times 20! That's how I feel about this ep. I loved loved loved Felicity being front and center. I thought the opening montage highlighted just why so many people love Felicity -- because she's not about ass kicking. She's all smarts and heart. It's something an every day person can be. I loved her back story and how it deepened her and Oliver's relationship. I also think it's super interesting that Oliver is the more emotional of the two. First two years, all emotion went to Ms. Smoak, but now we have Ollie saying "And you know how I feel about her." Love love love! We know Felicity is the one holding herself back right now and it's just such an interesting reversal.

If they are committing to F/O (and I think they are), I do hope the show won't go down the same old path of together, apart, together, etc. I just finished Friday Night Lights. Totally different show, but is it weird to hope F/O become the Tami and Coach Taylor of the superhero world?

Merlyn himself gave a reason for Oliver to keep him alive -- not just for Thea or Tommy, but Merlyn knows the League, was built from their cloth and knows the enemy. Also, Oliver seemed to really believe his theory that the League could be behind Sara's death.

I was thinking about why Oliver/Dig/Felicity work so well as a dynamic. I think it's because the three of them are really all different and come from different walks of life. I know that Sara, Laurel, Roy have their own unique origin stories, but the end result is being a fighting badass -- just like Oliver.(Although I think Sara did work well in the group -- Roy is all right, Laurel is still working on it) Something torturous (or many things) happened to them, and they decided to train and fight back. What makes Dig and Felicity so great with Oliver -- is their origin story with the Arrow is so simple -- they became part of the team because of Oliver's implicit trust in them and because of friendship.I think there's just something to that. Dig and Felicity bring something different to the Arrow team table than the fighters like Roy -- Dig brings his info re: weapons/war/wisdom from an older perspective and Felicity brings her tech/humor/smarts to the table.

After seeing Felicity on The Flash tonight, when Felicity says her remark about "the quiet dreams you keep to yourself," I just realized how Oliver and Felicity both saw Oliver's "Don't ask me to say I don't love you" in different ways. To Oliver, he's essentially he loves her. To Felicity, she's thinking he doesn't REALLY love her because he doesn't choose the challenge of being both the Arrow and Oliver Queen, which therefore would allow them to be together. Oliver is feeling hurt because he feels like he's told Felicity how he feels and she walked away from him (even though he initiated the break). Felicity's hurt because she doesn't think Oliver can see what she sees -- the dream she has of them together. She thinks it could be great, but thinks that Oliver doesn't believe in that dream.

Um, in 2.5 latest issue, can I ask why Roy is sedated? He woke up and was cognizant in Unthinkable.

Maybe because he's still lying to Thea -- she doesn't know he's the Arrow yet so he can still play Oliver Queen, big brother. But Felicity knows everything about him -- there's nothing compartmentalized. I think that freaks Oliver out. When Oliver said, "I'm scared what would happen if I allow myself to be Oliver Queen," overtly he's saying he has to be the Arrow and nothing else -- but allowing himself to be a normal person that's loved completely for who they are -- the good and the bad -- Oliver doesn't know how to do that or accept that into his life. With Thea, he's still playing a role -- he's not completely who he is.

Reading your guys' convo about the O/F dynamic and what it's become made me think about how I would react in a situation like this. I'd be on guard and super defensive. I think that may be how both O/F are dealing with the fall out. Especially Oliver.

On the Laurel/Felicity thing -- yeah, their exchanges irritate me because I love Felicity more than Laurel (I'm trying to like her). But also, this show hasn't really shown a great female friendship. Granted, this is Arrow and about Oliver Queen and the people in his orbit, but that's why Sara and Felicity's friendship was so nice and unexpected. Even if we didn't get a huge amount of scenes with them together, in the season 2 ep, Time of Death, we see them bond when Felicity saves Sara. With Felicity/Laurel exchanges, I wouldn't mind some actual connection or conversation in there.

So I enjoyed this ep. Quite a bit. Didn't realize how much I missed Thea and Malcolm. I enjoyed mostly everything. Even Laurel being beat up and in the hospital bed -- KC dialed it all down in that scene and was decent. But a couple of things - Felicity and Laurel aren't favor friends! They aren't friends! Gah! Does Oliver know that Felicity is working at QC? That's not really made clear.

Is it too much to say POI is perhaps one of the most ambitious shows on TV right now? This episode totally convinced me of that. I loved how Samaritan is setting up a new world order and the Machine has to work in secret against it.

Er, that depresses me. A lot. I watch for the D/O/F dynamic. While I like/don't mind Roy in general, he's nowhere near as endearing as Dig and Felicity. And Laurel, well. I'm trying to like her.

Do you remember her speech in City of Blood last year? How she was telling Oliver how you can't just accept things in life? She said something along the lines of "If I'd accepted my life, then I would be a cocktail waitress in Vegas and I never would have gone to college, I never would moved miles away to work at Queen Consolidated. And I never would have believed some crazy guy in a hood could make me believe that I was just more than some IT girl." Felicity's always had an awareness of how smart she is -- but maybe she was just never ambitious with those smarts. She never saw the scope of her talent until Oliver started asking her to do these crazy favors for him.

Yeah, I hope so too. But...I'm thinking we might now. After the big F/O moment in the premiere, there was an odd opening of Oliver walking with Roy and Felicity as Roy and Felicity just argued about setting up the phone system or something. It seemed, I don't know, too soon to go back to normal talk without a "this is how things will be" talk. But I guess maybe those don't always happen? I just feel like they do with F/O though. Um, so my concern is -- are Oliver and Felicity going to not be close now? Even as friends? Their dynamic is my favorite on the show. Also, Oliver's sad "I don't want to die down here" admission -- we're probably going to have to wait awhile for Felicity to realize Oliver feels that way, won't we?

Since this is the hopes and fears thread -- here's my fear -- because of the Oliver/Felicity scene -- does that mean we're about to get a bunch of episodes where they're not connecting even as friends? Because that would be a bummer.

Yeah, as someone who loves Felicity, I didn't like it when she said that, but I think it was good that she did say it. Felicity is one of the most beloved characters on the show -- to many people, there's not much that she does wrong, but I like that they wrote that line because it makes Felicity more real. She needs to have flaws. Ollie has said many hurtful things to Felicity in the past as well -- it's only realistic that she does the same to him. I did kind of wish that Felicity could have tried to comfort Oliver more, but then again, he wasn't really allowing people to comfort him. I guess when he said to her that he's going to die down there like Sara, Felicity saw her own future and didn't want that life for herself.