grandemocha

Go Pamela! She's still one of my faves, and I love how she handled herself. Although her dad didn't kill JR, he is still a BIG part of the reason why her babies are dead. That's unforgivable. Didn't see Hunter's death coming, too bad, I love Fran Kranz. Still don't care about Elena or her liar of a mother. Carmen can keep herself in that hotel room forever. I really really don't care about Mexico or anything to do with Nicoquin, but I think it's here to stay..

Well damn, I really liked Dash and Ingrid together. Thought there was some real potential there. Guess that's over! So Freddy's girlfriend is going to be the conduit for the grandfather ?

Why? Like did she think Elizabeth was just saying "Hey, stay away from this drug dealing criminal" for shits and giggles? Just to be a big old meanie? Maybe I attended one too many D.A.R.E talks in the 90's, but I always always kept it in my head to not screw with drug dealers, contrived tragic back story or not. I also understand that in the eyes of the law and in America, there is "adultolescence" now, where even physical/legal adults are treated by and behave like teenagers with their parents, but to me, 17 is so close to 18. It's time to grow up. Kids can't stay kids forever, and need to learn the consequences of their actions. Carter overreacting and running away was a bad choice, she makes alot of bad choices that should probably be examined in therapy, but this is MTV....

Seriously though, was Crash supposed to be on some kind of drugs? He was so twitchy for most of the episode and behaved erratically,

Unless you wrote, edited, produced, or acted in this show, you really don't have the right to suggest that someone else is watching the show "wrong". My perspective is just as valid as yours and so would anyone else's. We all obviously have different opinions and can agree to disagree, but no one on this board really has any special insight that makes their interpretation of the characters and story more valid than others. But yes, obviously we're just going in circles here, so agree to disagree. Not even remotely close to what I said. But okay. I do not and I never have liked teen characters that are brats. Carter is a brat. It is understandable because of the kind of psycho that raised her, but it will not excuse all of her shitty choices or hateful actions. If the show wants to convey that Carter is struggling over her kidnapping or traumatized, then they need to do a damn better job than they are. The idea that a 17 year old teenager should NEVER be punished, or held accountable for her actions is ludicrous and only reinforces the terrible behavior. Carter needs to learn not to RUN or get defensive every time someone says or does something she doesn't like. That is life. Sometimes your parents will do something you don't like or understand or get mad over. But, guess what? Most of the time they have a good reason for doing so. I've enjoyed my fair share of teen shows, but in all of them, I've always disliked the requisite snotty teen character. That's me and my thoughts. I'll continue to see it that way Taylor's behavior reminds me of the sister character in that old book series "Face on the Milk Carton", the main kidnapped girl had a biological sister and family that she discovered later. The kidnapped girl's siblings all changed and had to grow up fast because of what happened to Janie.

This is a very teenage way of seeing it. I'm sure I would have thought the exact same thing when I was 16 or 17 like "OMG, my mother totally doesn't trust me. How dare she have me followed". Getting older allowed me to gain experience, maturity, and perspective on the situation. An adult can see that it has nothing to do with whether or not Elizabeth trusts Carter or not, it has to do with Elizabeth being scared as hell that Carter's kidnapper was running around free and would happily take away Elizabeth's daughter again if she had the chance. Having that cop guy there gave Elizabeth a tiny piece of mind. But again, I can see that and understand it because I am no longer in my teen years. I guess I probably should stop watching teen shows, because 9 times out of 10 I usually sympathize with the parents and understand their actions far more than I do of the teen characters.

What would you have had her do though? Hope Carter comes to her senses and comes home? Just accept that her child was gone again? Pray day and night for a postcard that might come 3 years later? Or never again? Carter overreacting and running away with Crash led to Elizabeth having to put out that Amber alert. Yet again, poor decision making on Carter's part. I get the feeling that if Elizabeth had been out in her car hunting Crash and Carter down, she would have been criticized for that too. Carter isn't 16. She's 17 years old. Almost a legal adult. It's Crash's fault that he is a "statutory rapist", he chose to have sex with a minor. (Which, I don't even know the laws concerning sex with minors in whatever state the characters are in, but whatever) It's Crash's fault he's a kidnapper. He made some very bad decisions in his life that led him to his current situation. Also, the thing is to me...."appearing distraught" over what happened to Max doesn't mean much. Just because Carter cries, it doesn't mean everything is okay or fixed. ETA: I feel like I might be nuts, but were we supposed to see Crash as being on some kind of drugs during this episode? I swear it seemed like he was high or tripping out in some of the scenes.

No one has called Carter a monster for not listening to Elizabeth. No one is asking for subjugation from Carter. And I fucking APPLAUD her for that choice. She absolutely 100% should have done that. Any mother who had just gotten their kidnapped child back after 13 long years would have done exactly the same thing, or more. In fact, it's surprising that Elizabeth even let her leave. Like is it so hard to understand how a kidnapping of over a decade could really screw with your psyche and make your paranoid that you'd lose your child again? I do expect Carter to show Elizabeth some fucking decency and kindness. It's like pulling teeth to get Carter to be nice to Elizabeth 80% of the time. It should not be that hard. I do not understand what is so confusing and hard about showing respect to your mother. This damn show is so half assed that I sometimes scoff when I hear all the bad shit Carter does excused because "she was kidnapped". The show only lets me see Carter struggle with that a small amount of the time. No therapy, no Carter asking ANY questions that a real human being would ask, nothing. It's about respecting an adult who has not physically, mentally, or emotionally harmed you and has shown she cares on more than one occasion. I do NOT care as much about Carter feeling conflicted because she has only known about her kidnapping for 3 months tops and most of the time acts like it's no big deal.. Elizabeth, Taylor, and the rest of the family have suffered for 13 years. The majority of my sympathy lies with them. By the logic that I have seen expressed, that Carter should get a free pass for all the shit she pulls because "wah wah she loves her kidnapper and that's why Elizabeth should let her go free and not capture her crazy ass for Carter's sake" then Elizabeth should be given a free pass for her affair: because she was traumatized from losing her baby daughter and she had a terrible husband, Grant and Taylor should start acting like disrespectful snots and be automatically forgiven because they lived for years with not knowing what happened to their sister and so on.

No one is saying or has said that Carter needs to be prosecuted or sent to prison. No one has hinted at that. In my opinion, Carter needs to wake the hell up, buy a clue, and cut ties with her shitty friends and Crash. He is too damaged to be fixed a by a clueless teenager who won't even own up to her own mistakes. Crash is not misunderstood, or unfairly judged, or the cute/troubled boy next door. He has now committed a crime and needs to go to jail for it. Accident or not, he needs to own up to it. Carter made some VERY bad choices this past episode, and Max got hurt in the end. Elizabeth was absolutely correct about Crash, but Carter refused to see that. She's so busy with her righteous indignation and spending her time being a hypocrite that she can't see what's right in front of her. The question is: Will Carter finally learn from her mistakes and stop running away every time shit gets tough, or will she make excuses for Crash shooting Max and continue to be an idiot. But then have it excused because "Oh, I was kidnapped and I'm only a teenager. A teenager who shouldn't be held responsible for ANYTHING I do wrong because I'm young". 17 year old Carter is almost 18 and then the kid gloves will come off. Having a cop for a mother has probably helped her ass more than she deserves. BLESS YOU! Yes. Exactly my thoughts. There are so many kids in the real world with abusive, psychotic, and hateful parents and Carter continually shows disrespect to a mother like Elizabeth. It's so stupid to me. It would have been hilarious to see Carter go on the run and see how hard life can REALLY be when there's no parent to save your ass at every corner. To fix your mistakes. To bail you out.

They got a Season 2 so it will probably be covered then.

This is very melodramatic... Maybe it's really "Carter is God. All must obey Carter. Allow her to do whatever she wants. It is all up to Carter" Fact is Carter was a TERRIBLE person when she humiliated Elizabeth at the mall. Horrible. Guess what? Teenagers need to be held responsible for their actions. Carter does NOT get a free pass because she was kidnapped as a child. Elizabeth and the family have dealt with it for 13 years, Carter is only dealing with it now. If Taylor ran someone over with her car, can I say "Poor Taylor, she's only experiencing latent trauma from having her sister kidnapped". Fuck no. Doesn't work like that. I mean damn, how can it not be seen that there is a BIG damn difference between your silly "Mom is God" and Respect your mother who hasn't done terrible things to you. Everything concerning protecting her that Elizabeth has done was in carter's best interests. I keep seeing "B-but but Elizabeth had Carter followed" ...Like seriously? Who gives a fuck? She should have put a tracker on the car too. This woman JUST got her daughter back. No shit she's going to be crazy and paranoid when that daughter immediately wants to leave the house and drive 2 hours away. You cut Carter sooo much slack because she is 17, not a 6 year old mind you, almost an adult, but none for Elizabeth. No one was talking about subjugation or pure worship, but it's about being a fucking decent person an understanding on Carter's part that Elizabeth has lived through hell for YEARS. Carter is partly responsible for Max getting shot. Like I said before, if Carter wasn't there, then Crash wouldn't have been there. Guess what, sometimes people share responsibility when something bad happens. That is the case here. Carter's selfish actions led her to think it was okay to go see Max when there was an Amber alert out, and put Max once again in an uncomfortable position that led to him getting shot. He was trying to be a damn good friend to Carter's stupid self even at the last moment, which is better than she deserves, and he got a bullet for his troubles. Not to mention the fact that as soon as Carter saw that Crash barely knew how to handle a gun and didn't realize how to put the safety on, she should have realized "Oh shit, I've made a terrible mistake. How do I get out of this safely" not "But Max, Crash is a goood guy, I understand him. He's been treated so badly. I have to be with him" blah blah. Like it would have been so hard for Carter to say "Crash take me home right now. I've made a mistake". This analogy makes no sense and is pretty damn insulting to rape victims to try to compare Carter's dumb ass actions with her drug dealer boyfriend to what happens to REAL victims. Carter was NOT a real victim last night. And actually, Carter could have possibly swayed Crash into making a slightly different decision before they got to Max. Girlfriends can affect what their boyfriends do. Have you never influenced a friend's decisions? I have.

I think I'll stop before I get unnecessarily snarky. I explained VERY clearly how Carter is partly responsible for Max getting shot. How she was a dumb ass for staying with Crash and not doing the right thing and going home. Breaking it down: Carter tells Crash she wants to go home --> Crash takes her home --> Crash/Carter never go to the mini mart to get burner phones from Max --> Crash never shoots Max. If you don't like my reasoning, that's fine. You are entitled to that. Can I call Crash, Carter's fuck buddy then? A piece of trash who she lowers herself to screw? No difference between him and Elizabeth's "sex buddy" as you put it, right? Both guys are men Carter and Elizabeth shouldn't have looked at twice. By the way, he had every right to arrest Carter and put her in jail because Carter's BFF Bird, another loser, accused her of stealing jewelry and Bird's mom pressed charges. Don't put that on the cop for doing his JOB. Respect is something Carter has not learned and hell, I don't blame her considering the psycho she grew up with was crazy as shit. Elizabeth is not disturbed, nuts, a dictator, or whatever ridiculous babble makes it seem like a mother of a kidnapped child is TOO protective. In fact, I'm constantly amazed at the shit Elizabeth lets Carter and her other kids get away with. Obviously it goes on in some families with snotty teens, but I would have never spoken to my mother the way Carter constantly does. Of course this show is about Carter as the main character, so she'll get off scott free and not be responsible for anything. So predictable. I have compassion for the characters on the show who deserve it. Right now, Carter isn't one of them.

The MOMENT Carter saw Crash bought a gun, and it was loaded, AND that he was clearly losing it, she should have gone home. Immediately. Or at the very least told him to take out the bullets. She already knows this guy is a drug dealer, has a criminal record, is NOT a good person. Doesn't matter to her. She's so infuriatingly stubborn and acted like Elizabeth was wrong for how she acted toward Crash..when she was the only one who treated him like he should be treated. Carter came to see Max and asked him for things she should not have. Two burner phones she didn't pay for. Yet AGAIN, she put him in a terrible position by having to give something to Lori, her kidnapper in case some have forgotten, made him stop before he could do the right thing and call Taylor. Carter is at fault here. She may not have pulled the trigger, but she's partly responsible for the sequence of events that led to Max getting shot. Max made it perfectly clear to Carter that he not want to keep playing messenger between her and her kidnapper anymore. Not to mention it is also utterly moronic to go visit someone everyone knows is your friend while you are a fugitive. Seeing as how the preview for next week's episode has her telling Crash he needs to turn himself in instead of telling that trash to fuck off and that Elizabeth with the cops will hunt his ass down, she won't change. Someone else wrote this, but this is absolutely correct IMO. Carter keeps making stupid decisions, and made excuse after excuse for Crash in this episode long after she should have cut his crazy ass loose. Her stupid decisions hurt other people who don't deserve it, but when the heat is turned Carter's way, she runs because she can't handle it. I somehow thought crazy Lori was going to pop up and Carter would go with her.

I can't decide if I hope he goes to prison for a long time or if he offs himself. Trying to think which option would result in Carter treating him like a poor, misunderstood martyr who didn't mean to be so messed up.

Christ, Carter is stupid as fuck. What an idiot. She will never learn. It is partly HER fault that Max got shot. Sad thing is, he's such a good guy that he'll probably forgive her stupid ass. I want consequences for this shit. ETA: And every time she has to hear a hard truth, she can't handle it.

Haven't seen the episode yet, but: Did anyone, anyone at all call Elena out on her hypocritical bullshit attitude? Or even get in a good insult? Is her stupid "dios mio" mother still employed by the Ewings?

I will absolutely rage if it's some ridiculous crap like Elizabeth used to snort cocaine and drink vodka before being abusive to baby Carter so Lori felt she had to save her from mean! Elizabeth. That'd be awful

I like both characters, but i could really happily go without seeing another Max and Taylor sex/makeout scene again. Was awkward for some reason. Carter still needs extensive therapy. Bird and the rest of her "friends" are losers and not the type of people Carter needs to hang around. Crash is still nuts. Would it really be that easy to put Carter in jail? All it takes is Bird's word that Carter stole the jewelry? I think I've spent too many years watching Law & Order, because in the last scene..I was wondering why Elizabeth didn't immediately return to duty as a cop and put out an APB for Crash, his car, and her daughter. Hunt their asses down. Two dumb teenagers will eventually make mistakes and slip up allowing themselves to be found. It's not that hard..

I couldn't. They're just both so whiny. I am glad Drew is dead. He and Elena both sucked when she helped him run away from facing justice for his crimes. Not like Mama Ramos cares either. To them, the Ewings suck, but their own faults are no big deal or non-existent. The mom, Carmen I think?, is one of those classic parents who are in denial of all the shit their kids can pull. Her Drew was obviously a terrible person, but she ignores all evidence of his crimes.

Wow, just wow, this show keeps getting worse and worse. I do not give a flying fuck about Elena or her stupid mother. Kill of the entire Ramos family and be done with them. Elena is such a hypocrite. It's apparently NOT fine to her that the Ewings look after one another, but it was 100% okay for her to help her loser brother avoid prison after he helped cause the explosion that killed Pamela's babies. Also, I realize this is very mean, but it's getting harder and harder to see Jordana Brewster on screen. She's just too painfully thin. It's not pleasant to see. When Mama Ramos was just sniveling and denying the fact that Drew set the fire, I was so annoyed and ready for her to get off my screen. It's just all soo..irritating. No other word for it really. This is DALLAS for fuck's sake. (Most) people watch for the Ewings and to see them fight among each other yet still come out on top. People do not watch to see the Ramos family win. I can easily predict a potential plot point since they made such a point of showing it. Elena and John Ross had sex tonight, her diaphragm still has a hole in it, so I'm betting a season finale surprise is that Elena is pregnant with John Ross's baby.

Elena is so damn pathetic. Someone do her a favor and stake her stupid ass and put her out of her misery. This is hilarious that Elena is the one who said two seasons ago that she wasn't one of "those girls" whose life stopped or whose life revolved around some guy. She really has sunk to a new low. What a pathetic excuse for a woman. Plec and Dries should be ashamed. She'll probably try to kill herself again in the first or second episode to be wit Damon. Not Bonnie, no, fuck Bonnie am I right? It's all about Damon. She really has become Bella Swan. I'm expecting a magical vampire baby by the Season 6 finale now. The message is loud and clear here: Life is NOT worth living without your boyfriend and if he leaves you or you lose him somehow, then you need to do something dangerous and stupid to see him or be with him.

Even victims, like Carter, can act like assholes..which she has. I have sympathy (sometimes) for Carter, but just because she was kidnapped doesn't mean I personally excuse her behavior when she acts like a rude bitch. She's still a person, right? Who knows how to use her brain and be nice and considerate? She just chooses not to. Lori raised her as her BFF, not a proper respectful parent/child relationship where you follow the rules and behave. It reminds me of Lorelai/Rory from Gilmore Girls. What initially stuck out to me in the pilot is that carter was HAPPY and pleased with herself in jail. She wasn't sorry at all or scared or worried about Lori's reaction. Her friends who had actual parents were worried and concerned, but she wasn't.

Uhmm..okay, I obviously shouldn't have used the word "endured" but yeah, that's what I meant. Carter was oblivious for 13 years, and even now with the truth out, she acts like a sanctimonious jerk 60% of the time. There's no scenes of therapy for her, she's probably going to end the season back with her precious Lori through some bullshit plot twist (since the show was renewed for Season 2) and I'll STILL feel bad for Elizabeth.

I get what you're saying, but he still does want to be seen as "cool" dad. Evidenced by the scene where he's a complete idiot and gets the girls a car they can't afford. Then Elizabeth has to go to her mother for the money. Elizabeth has to play "bad cop" at home because David is a sorry excuse for a father. ETA: Unless every stupid action has been a part of a master plan all along to manipulate everyone in his family, twirly mustache style, lol. Carter is 16 going on 17. She's not a young child. I had empathy for her before she started acting like a hypocritical asshole. I completely lost sympathy for her after that cruel shit she pulled on Elizabeth in the mall food court. That was beyond harsh. I have sympathy for Elizabeth. Carter lived 13 years with a kidnapper who didn't hurt her, and pretty much let her do whatever she wanted. Elizabeth lived for 13 years with uncertainty, constant torture and fear about what happened to her baby. Was her child murdered and raped by a pedophile? Was she being pimped out by a monster? She never got closure, never got an answer. THAT is far worse to me than what Carter endured for 13 years.

Yeah. Why didn't David take Grant to school? Or buy milk? I keep waiting for the show to give me anything regarding him being an actual good father, husband, friend..or damn, even person, but he keeps being awful. I get why Elizabeth was upset, the girls promised him they'd pick him up, and they instead spent the day with their boyfriends and got high. It's not their job to parent him, but they needed to stick to their word. Elizabeth is probably always going to be a little bit paranoid regarding her children and unseen threats even though she's calmed down alot since Carter came home.