Orion

This was my second least favorite episode of the season (Time of Death was my most hated). It was right in the middle of the Lance Drama marathon where Sara was everywhere and when she wasn't there, Laurel was. It was the, "please save Oliver" episodes and that Felicity got 4? lines of dialogue that whole episode, combined with the horrible fur coat that Felicity went brooch crazy with ( that bothered me I have no idea why.) It was mainly already known filler and all set up for Slade planting cameras around the mansion for the Unthinkable pay off. It was also right in the middle of hiatus, show, 2 week hiatus, show, show hiatus so the Lance drama and the lack of Felicity and Diggle was exacerbated. After having watched them OOC everyone in TOD (ymmv) and smother me with Laurel in BOP and her addiction arc by the time this episode was over I was seriously deciding whether or not I wanted to keep watching Arrow. Even during re watch I find myself zoning out for the majority of it. For all the times the writers speed through story the one time they decided to stop and have characters moments I was wishing for a time machine to get me to the next episode where maybe something new would happen.

It's not so much what we, the audience, know but do the characters know the answers to those questions. That those are the questions they are asking themselves this year (inner monologue questions). And what each of their journeys will be to get those answers. Diggle already pointed out that Oliver refers to himself in the third person, implying that Oliver still isn't a real person to himself. He's more comfortable as the Arrow. The person he had to become in HK. He had to stop being Oliver Queen. Now his journey will be to combine those two personalities. To find a way to balance the life the man wants with the goals the Arrow wants. From the trailer we know that Oliver is trying to push Dig out of the team something that he could do if Diggle was his sidekick. But if this has truly become Digs mission too, then he has a right to be his own man and decide what risks he is willing to take and if one of those risks is that he would die and leave his kid without a Dad, than he is willing to accept that for the greater good of the mission. Felicity is similar. Finding a balance between Team Arrow and personal connections outside of the lair. Is she going to let Oliver's fear for her safety keep her locked up in the lair or does she explore a life out in the field and away from him. Quentin, they gave away a bit at Comic Con with him struggling with being forced behind a desk and feeling more like a pencil pusher than a police officer. I'm assuming that will lead him to further embrace the Arrow's cause in an attempt to feel useful again. Thea's choice is the only one up in the air and going by what SA said at Comic Con that will be something that will take up most of her arc. She'll be battling am I a Queen (Good) or a Merlyn (Villain) I have no idea about Laurel. None.

IA the EPs seemed to have figured out if you want a character liked you stick them with Felicity and have her like them Sara, Roy, Lance, Walter, Nyssa (to a certain extent) or have Felicity not like them (Isabel, Moira) and you have instant characterization. Which is why I don't think they will let Felicity anywhere near WildCat if he is Laurel's love interest. The last thing they need is for everybody to compare chemistry or to go, "Wow, he's great with Felicity!" to another one of Laurel's love interests.

I can go back and forth with it being a nightmare/hallucination. If Oliver is dosed at dinner and hallucinates Felicity injured and in the lair that makes sense because if a restaurant is bombed he wouldn't need to take her back to the Arrow Cave to give her medical attention, the reason they handle the their medical care in the lair is because hospitals are required to report gun shot injuries, medical help at the scene would expect to handle people injured in the explosion no need for secrecy. They could also go further with it and Felicity actually dies in Oliver's hallucination. There is a scene in the trailer where Oliver is bathed in blue light and his eyes/reaction to Vertigo talking to him look a slightly drugged. The problem beyond that is that when Oliver wakes up it removes all the tension. Yes, a vision of Felicity dying would be scary for him, but in the end, it is just a dream. She's safe, Oliver can go back to believing he and Diggle can protect her. It removes a lot of the tension between Vertigo and Oliver too. There is no reason for Oliver to flip out at Vertigo if it is only a dream. Pissed he got dosed and pissed he had to dream about Felicity being injured wouldn't equal the same about of emotional pain. Also, I can't really see a drug induced hallucination forcing them to have a "raw" discussion. I'm leaning more toward dinner gets interrupted by Diggle or Roy calling about Arrow business and they have to leave to go back to Verdant. An explosion happens when they are close enough to the lair that Oliver brings her there. We know that Oliver's brain tends to short circuit when someone he cares about is hurt (collapsing after Moira and Shado die) He hands her care over to Diggle who takes her to the hospital while Oliver goes off to kill the person responsible. There is just a lot more juicy plot to be had if her injuries are real. I'm thinking the explosion is the first shots fired between Vertigo and the Arrow and the will power drug will be played out in another episode or in a different part of the episode when Oliver goes to get him and that's when Oliver sees a vision of himself that scares the shit out of him.

The other day when I was searching for the Lois and Clark quote for a post I was doing I accidentally stumbled on this Huffington post article and I'm finally getting around to posting about it. This was really interesting to me. I wasn't follow Arrow stuff online until Season 2 so I never read up on it. (I stopped watching the show after Episode 2 because of Laurel but ended up catching the first Vertigo episode in Season 1) Guggenheim almost makes it clear in this article that they knew they were dropping Laurel/Oliver before 1X21 aired. The acknowledgment of the chemistry from Guggenheim especially floored me. The whole article is interesting just to see what they were teasing and how they were framing the upcoming episodes back in Season 1. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/arrow-olicity-felicity-oliver-emily-bett-rickards_n_3144718.html I never believed that the EPs realized that the Laurel/Oliver pairing wasn't working that early on in the show and that they viewed the hook up at the end of 1X22 as an ending point for them. That might explain why someone thought Radioactive was a good song to play when a couple got together. My apologies if others have seen this article, it was new to me.

I just looked up Bex on Twitter. Nothing saying she shooting or that she was going to Vancouver. She tweeted that she was going to bed 5 hours ago and RT someone saying "Stay with me" always gives them feels. And now I feel like a twitter stalker. ;D

I'll add my guess. In the premiere something happens that makes Oliver realize he can't be in a personal relationship with Felicity but she's still his teammate. In episode 3x02 something tragic happens to Sin and Oliver sees how Sara takes loosing a friend and he further freaks out. Oliver decides that he can't go through that with Diggle and Felicity and kicks them both off Team Arrow. Diggle and Oliver fight over it and the fight they have is for the soul of Team Arrow. Roy is a loner so Oliver will want to team up with just him. Doesn't Felicity go to Flash in the third episode? Getting confused with all the spoilers we've gotten.

They could kill Sara early in the season and the 5 episodes the EPs are referring to she would be in flash backs only. I just think Sara is here for the long haul, at least in the background, for contingency plans.

Colton said in an interview that something horrible happens that brings Sara and Roy closer together. He also said he has read scripts up to 3X03. Something tragic happening in 3X02 makes sense in that timeline. Heads up Sin!

I watched Emily Owens and I remember him not being a very memorable character. He had the affair with the chief surgeon - they broke up, before the show started and they brought him in to try to develop tension between him, the Chief Surgeon and her husband. I remember him being pretty... bland. Angry and snarky at times but the romantic scenes with her and him were just flat. To be fair the other two men, Micah and Wil had charm oozing out of them so maybe it was just in comparison to them he was flat. Do two characters that have negative chemistry create positive chemistry together?

I think the reason they are holding on to Sara is because they are hedging their bets with Laurel. If at the end of this season when they remove her from toxic Lauriver, give her agency in the A plot, have her in the know about team Arrow and interacting with the Team, and give her a love interest and that character is still the one the media points to as the problem she'll be gone. Personally if I have to sit through a Laurel romance arc I'm really hoping the writers go toward a Scarlett O'Hara/ Rhett Butler or even Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew with Petruchio and Kate. A relationship where Laurel is snotty, spoiled, jealous and Wildcat makes fun of her, teasing about. I could at least tolerate that storyline if he treats her like the flawed character we know she is. If Felicity is the voice of the audience for Team Arrow than let Ted Grant be the voice of the audience for Laurel but he would be doing it because he cares about and wants her to be better. In Guggenheim's interview above he brings up Laurel and tries to tease her becoming the BC. When he says that people will be really interested in her story he looks away, a good tell that someone is lying. He almost tries to lead the interview toward, "Come on ask me about Laurel" and the interviewer goes right back to Thea. Guggenheim almost looks annoy, he sighs - face tightens, then he smiles and moves on. If they keep getting the "lets talk about anyone other than Laurel" from the media I think Sara will be the BC going forward. Or that they are at least holding on to that possibility.

Here is a cute short scene of them from Woman of the Year. Tracy was the goof, for lack of a better word, more physical comedy and Hepburn was more of the dead pan delivery, eye rolling at him. They played back and forth with each other.

Love the line about Felicity- " She is by no means an ass kicker but she's very tough - she has an inner steel to her."

Thank you Statsgirl and Sakura12 I was searching for comic con interviews but I had never heard of that person. I was trying to figure out if he got an excellent interview or it was something to do with comics. You guys cleared that up. I appreciate it!

Oh god, they're going to have her figure out Oliver's feeling for Felicity and give him relationship advice aren't they? O.o Sounds like Sin is in danger and I'm really going to hate if they kill her off. I love Sin. But if they are breaking up Teen Arrow then Roy and Thea have somewhere else in the story to go; Sin is the only one that is isolated from Oliver's plot. @ban1o KC also said she would not be a damsel in distress during the season finale. She made it 8 minutes in before she was tranqed by Nyssa. I don't know if it is a profound disconnect with her character, the writers failing to explain the overall story arc to her or she is just terrible at interviews; really, really terrible. But Roy as a member of Team Arrow would know who is on the team and Colton has a history of oversharing but not being wrong so I'll go with him being right until I see otherwise. :)

@SilverLake0315 I didn't even go that far I just did Travel math for times. http://www.travelmath.com/flying-time/from/Vancouver,+Canada/to/San+Diego,+CA. One of the ladies had a selfie that made me think they were on a private plane but I can't remember where I saw it, sorry! Yep ArrowLimbo, it doesn't matter, it's just more of interesting speculation, at least from my POV, I enjoy when something looks seamless and the PR for SDCC was done really well. My inner PR nerd is celebrating their successful role of it. ITA agree with you that would have been awkward. ;) ETA: Did anyone post this yet? The Emergency Awesome guys breakdown of the trailer for Arrow. He thinks or knows? that when Laurel says, "Did you ever think we would be business partners" it is because she helps Oliver get the funds to try to buy back QC. It also goes into where some of this could go based on his comic book knowledge.

EBR said in a couple interviews during Upfronts that Felicity didn't know why they were at the mansion, so I'm assuming if she was in the on the plan he would have told her about the cameras. I could only find one of the interviews but here it is. http://tvline.com/2014/05/15/arrow-season-2-finale-emily-bett-rickards-felicity-oliver-i-love-you/

The only way I can think to try to figure out if the women were intentionally kept away or busy shooting was to look up flight times. The flight from Vancouver to San Diego is 2 hours and 25 minutes long. If they shot until 4am, even adding in 5 hours for to and from airports and make up and hair once they arrived, there still should have been plenty of time to get them to the panel which iirc happened around 2pm and there definitely should have been time for all of them to be there for the autographs which were around 5pm. Other than that I can't think of anything definite. Arrow is using Felicity as the "beloved character" (I know not everyone loves her but their focus groups must suggest most do) to launch a lot of the new ventures. For example, if you want the new guy or girl to instantly be liked by fans, make Felicity like them (Barry & Sara). Want to pull the Arrow audience to watch the Flash, have Felicity crossover (The EPs saying Felicity would be the glue between the shows). Want to try to get the viewers buying comics, announce the Felicity character is going to be included in the Green Arrow world. She's the audience member on screen most of the time, you need her to continue to be loved (they already learned their lesson about what happens when the romantic lead is not loved), so keeping her as far away from any potential flash points that would anger fans ( the death of ships) just makes sense. Sending SA out to take any potential flack, protects her and he, as the hero, is the person that could easily absorb any anger the fans feel toward those decisions. They would want to keep KC away because 1. she has a problem during interviews to begin with 2. She is not well loved and potential questions directed to her, outside of shipping, could be uncomfortable and 3. she has essentially lost her leading lady status and no one wants to put someone in the position where they have to admit they failed. I know some people won't see her as having lost her lead lady title but when she was hired her character was the one true love of Oliver Queen and the future Black Canary. One of those is definitely gone (at least for the time being) and the other is not without it's detractors. That would have put her in a very uncomfortable position during the panels and interviews, especially if she was seated next to SA while he smiled and teased Olicity going forward and the sinking of the Lauriver ship. All of that is supposition on my part and I suspect beyond educated guessing we will never know since this is all kinda like watching sausages get made, things kept in the background. When PR is working correctly the average person should never know what is going on behind the scenes. But to me it all lines up.

I wonder what it is that earns him the name Green Arrow. At first I thought it would be in response to Roy or Thea joining him and taking on the name Red Arrow but I'm wondering if they are not aiming for more of a character moment. SA keeps mentioning Scorcese-esque scene in the premiere, in at least 2 comic con interviews, and IIRC it is linked to Felicity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Scorsese So everyone guessing that he flips his lid at Felicity getting hurt, this could be supporting that. IMDB seems to imply that Taxi driver has a story where a girl gets injured and the protagonist goes on a rampage after that.

I know it's tempting to believe this is to good to be true but remember what Guggenheim said, "they love each other" and what SA said that, the premiere is always a microcosm for the that season. So we already know enough about the first episode and what the producers have said to know what the theme is, Identity- Can Oliver be both the Arrow and Oliver Queen. "How much of his humanity does he want back. Does he want a love life? Does he want his company back?" The answers to those questions have to be yes by the finale or Oliver's season long arc will be a failure. This season is about Oliver wanting things he thinks he can't have. So by the end he has to see that, yes, I can be both my superhero and man. Now that doesn't mean by the end of the season he will have those things; but it does mean that he will want those things and acknowledge that he is able to have them. Last season Oliver would have never, under penalty of torture, admitted that he loved Felicity and allowed her to see how he feels. Oliver Queen is the king of compartamentalization, here is your box and please stay in it because I feel safer that way. This season he's going to give Felicity a peak inside and then try to send her on her way to a happy life making the noble sacrifice. Basically we are moving from one TV trope to another. But at least we are progressing. So last years TV Trope was - It's not you it's my enemies This year it will be either - I Want My Beloved to be Happy or the Celibate Hero http://tvtropes.org (warning this website is like a bag potato chips, don't start reading unless you want be there for a few hours or until you hit the bottom of the bag.) ;) These are all very normal romance tropes and steps that the hero has to take as well as ways to keep up the will they/won't they. My trust in the writers was destroyed during that terrible middle of Season 2 and further tested by the I love you in the finale, I didn't mind the I love you because I always believed he meant it but I am still not over that Oliver didn't clue in Felicity to the plan before they got there. I can fan wank it but it still makes me angry. But as soon as Guggenheim, one of the more pro-Laure/Oliver producers confirmed they love each other, that ended the debate for me. They are going full in on this or it would corrupt the hero's journey. That said, Oliver and Felicity won't be together at least until the end of the season.

If Oliver tells Felicity that he can't control himself when it comes to someone hurting her, I can see her pulling back. She wants him to be the hero, she feels guilty for him killing the Count for her and putting him in that position. She was the only one at the end telling him that no, he could still beat Slade without killing. EBR said at Upfronts do you risk it all for love or do you stay friends and teammates. I think he will lay it out there that he loves her but he can't be a the hero when it comes to her safety and she will step away so he doesn't become the killer he once was in her name. That they can stay friends and teammates. Sorry, I've read so much of the threads the past couple of days, I can't remember who said that Oliver is going to try to kick her and Diggle out of the team this year. I agree with that. Maybe that's why she goes to talk to Barry in 3.04 ETA: "Literally see's a vision of himself that scares the shit out of him." Looks up from beating the hell out of Vertigo and sees himself in mirror/window?

Thinking back on everything from 2B to comic con it really does make a lot of things make more sense to me now. The lead up in S2 A to Oliver and Felicity begins. Oliver and Laurel break up at Tommy's grave. Olicity starts developing and moving forward, including giving them a romantic theme score. We get the Russia episode and the "Life that I lead speech" Felicity is given all the romantic hero beats with creating his bow and putting on his mask to helping him find another way. ( all stuff others have talked in other threads much better than I ever could) At some point right in there SA goes to the producers and either asks for Olicity or asks to stop hooking up with every female on the show. (maybe after Isabel) The producers decide to go all in on Olicity but they need to 1. put a nail in Lauriver and 2. They still really really want their Black Canary/Green Arrow hook up. We get the hook up with Sara out of no where to fulfill the writers wish list. Then they have that OOC moment where Oliver shows up at the Lance dinner just so he can plainly state he's "done" with her. (re-reading that hallway speech I didn't remember how brutal that was. Especially, "Why don't you go get wasted. Go to Verdant and I'll pay for it." Ouch). They didn't have time to do either of those plot points justice in a more believable way but they had to get them in there. At this point Kreisenberg goes out and makes the comparison between Lois and Clark but most people over look the full quote which goes on to says "But Laurel will always be one of the closest people to him, whether that’s romantic or not. That’s why it’s so powerful to us that, in his darkest hour, Laurel is the one who pulls him out of it." (which is blah, blah, blah about the speech she gives him but it is the first indication we get from the producers that Lauriver might not be their OTP) Moving forward to the finale, the producers thought they were being clear about the "Unthinkable" act that Oliver had to do, sacrificing the woman he loves to save the city. But it wasn't clear and people debated. Did he lie to her about loving her? Did he sacrifice Felicity to save Laurel? That was what all the talk on line and the media the day after the finale aired. They send SA out at Upfronts to all but say it was not a fake out and to reassure people that they would deal with it next season. But people still debate it. The WB, CW, and DC twitters, tumblrs and facebook go all in on Felicity and Olicity all summer long RTing and posting fanart positive Olicity comments and romantic quotes. DC announces that Felicity's character is moving over to the comics and that Olicity's playful banter will be included in that. Then at Comic Con they decide to make it extremely clear where this season is going. They want to pad the landing and prepare the people who aren't into Oliver and Felicity to minimize the upset during the season and like someone said above, reassure the Olicity fans that this is being taken seriously. So SA is tasked with breaking the news that Sara and Laurel ships are done. Felicity is the one woman going forward this season. He's very careful to say Sara and Laurel and Oliver will be together just not together, together. This is backed up in smaller interviews by the EPs. The PR people are very careful to keep the woman out of it. KC and EBR aren't present during any of these interviews, which keeps KC from having to sit through question after question about Olicity (The Arrow panel moderator basically used Olicity to whip the fans up during the whole panel. Imagine if KC was sitting there for that). And EBR is kept away to stop Olicity from taking over all the Arrow talk, reassuring fans that the romance will not take over the show and to make sure that the anger the Lauriver fans feel is not directed at her but confined to the EPs and SA. The ladies are kept out of the autographs line so they don't get questioned on it and the which one of the Lances will be the Black Canary question. The only big event they are all together for, beyond photo sessions away from the public is the large DC panel, which is less likely to break down into a Arrow/Olicity conversation with so much going on besides those issues. In addition the EPs do not announce Sara as a recurring character for this season, they tease Ted Grant, they tease the jacket and "Laurel's journey" and I'm sure they would have done more of that if any of the interviews would have asked. As it was, they had to keep bringing it up when they weren't asked. They give KC the chance to hint at it during the DC panel the biggest event, to further point toward Black Canary. She misses her chance by trying to be funny but they set her up for it. The EPs try to make Laurel fans happy by admitting yes the romance is gone but she will still have an important role going forward. (not trying to be conspiracy theory here. This is just a comment on the PR side and how when I add everything up I really get a clear picture of how this came about.)

Could "Sara" be an anagram play on Ra's al Ghul ? For the people into comics is he ever called just Rasa?

They do, although they really shouldn't need to for a light and fluffy interview like that. It was basic where is your character going question. Something the EPs should have told her what to tease for Laurel well before hand. I didn't see it as deferring, to me it looked like she didn't know what to say. That could completely be my belief that she doesn't understand her character. Lots of ways to read it. ;)

That interview was, um.. painful. No fun, no chemistry. KC gave "the amount of ass" as an answer for what she likes about her character and has she applied it to her real life. She also had to keep turning to Guggenheim for answers about Laurel. Starting to understand why she doesn't allow recording of her cons. Stephen said they were going to have another Trailer tonight that will have different scenes then what was in the trailer during the arrow panel.