comatoast

I watched this part of the reunion again because reading here I realized I must have dozed off big time. Not a good sign. (Another not-so-good sign about this episode is the fact that a good number of the posts here have nothing to do with it.) Anyway, something I missed the first time around was the absolutely awesome way in which Luann handled Aviva's attempt at shit-stirring with regards to Lu looking for dirt on Carol. Just. Awesome. Speaking of the hilariousness that is Sonja, what the hell was that exaggerated yawn about?

If that's the case, she still needs to be off the show. Not just for herself and for the rest of the cast, but for the viewers. She's not fun to watch (even though I was LMAO right along with Lu in that last scene). I hope Bravo doesn't misinterpret the higher ratings as Aviva love.

Also, if you have a need, and you have a person who is helping you with that need and is kind to you, are you going to pay much attention to her behavior on a trashy reality show? Especially since she probably spins it as "it's just for show." I'm talking about the amputees themselves, and not just the organizations.

Ah, there's that fabulous circle of friends! But no Lindsay Lohan Daddy?

For her benefit and for the benefit of everyone else in the cast, she needs to be off the show!

Extreme admiration....obsessively reacting... The extreme and obsessive degree of her actions and the extreme way in which she turns on people don't sound to me like just a spoiled person having a tantrum because she didn't get her way.

It could be because of the reflux. But then she asked for wine, and I believe wine is an issue for people with reflux also. More contradictions.

I missed that, but I'm so glad she did! Maybe this was when Ramona was giving her two cents worth about how insulting it is and I was just rolling my eyes too hard to be able to pay attention.

I'm clapping now!! Yeah, Ramona's a crazy bitch, but damn, she's an entertaining one (unlike Aviva)! I think she may need to be downgraded to a friend of, but I so want her around next year. It was so disappointing that they all viewed being older than 50 as an insult. Carol should have said that whether she was 50 or older, it doesn't matter one bit because she is damn proud of who she is, of what she's achieved in her life, of not being a bitter asshole in spite of whatever heartache life has thrown her way, and that at 50 (or older), she looks and feels great, which certain younger women can't say.

If Aviva is simply a mean old bitch, then of course she should be treated as such. My point is that Carol herself has said it's not that simple because she believes Aviva has a mental disorder. What I think is that if you suspect someone is not all there mentally for whatever reason (again, she is not doctor and has no clue what is going on in that head, but she suspects something), you should not engage and/or behave just like that person. Not just out of kindness, but because it is simply the smart thing to do. Perhaps I expect better from those who present themselves as better. And yes, Carol, to me, is among those who present themselves as better. I know we disagree about whether Carol's behavior reached a point where it was as bad as Aviva's, and my points aren't convincing any of you, nor are your points convincing me, so this is just feeling repetitive now and I'm going to stop here with this discussion. Overall, I like Carol and hope she comes back, even though I don't think she will. I do think she can be condescending and well, the aforementioned issue, but no one is perfect. I love how accomplished she is. I liked her silly pranks this season. I liked her walking dress, as ridiculous as it was. I liked her party and her talking head about turning fifty (just wish she was as confident as she says she is). And I like her friendship with Luann. It says a lot about both of them. Oh, I also liked how she talked to Kristin when she was upset (Montana trip) and that she picked up the leg and gave it back to Aviva. I don't like her as a blonde, though!

If I wasn't clear in my post, I didn't mean to imply Munchausen makes someone a mean bitch nor is it related to general bitchdom. I was agreeing with you that maybe Aviva is one. But whether she is or not, it was Carol who said otherwise so she should be treating her differently. As for the rest, clearly we disagree, but I do want to say that I like Carol.

I believe Carol crossed a line as well. Future opportunities for Aviva may also be affected. It's not like the days of mental illness and stigma are long gone. While I would hope that a person's actions have more impact than the possibility of that person having a mental condition, no one can say for sure that Aviva's asshole juvenile behavior on a trashy reality show will be more detrimental to her reputation and life than having her name associated with a specific mental disorder. There's absolutely nothing wrong with holding people accountable for their bad behavior, but Carol took it a step further. She didn't stop at telling Aviva that she was lying. No, she called her out as possibly having a very specific mental disorder that will now be associated with Aviva so long as the footage exists. (And she did in fact say "She has Munchausen syndrome" when they were having dinner in Montana. No "I think" there. )The question of whether she does or doesn't is out there. Just as the question about Carol using a ghostwriter is out there. Maybe Aviva is just a mean bitch. Ironically, Carol is the one who thinks she has a mental disorder so she should treat Aviva accordingly.

She also went to Haiti to help somehow, didn't she? She was never a favorite of mine, but I hate to think what season 3 would have been without Kelly.

Oops. I had started a topic for talking about past seasons, but since it seems to happen here, I just sent Lisin a PM to delete mine if she wants. Back to cringe-worthy scenes, wasn't there an equally horrifying scene with Alex and Simon at some point in that season?

That was during the "ramontic (Ha! That typo stays!) scene," right? Poor Avery must have been mortified when it aired. I don't remember some of the other stuff so I definitely have to watch it again. You're making it sound pretty funny!

I just don't see how saying on national TV that you think Aviva has Munchausen syndrome is any different than Aviva claiming on national TV that Carol used a ghostwriter. Both hit below the belt and both can be detrimental for a long time after the season is over.

Just to say something positive about her, she did seem to do a good job with her girls. I also liked that in spite of being a model, she didn't seem as absorbed with her face/body as the others. She had her contradictions about diet, but she always worked out. I thought that was key to a healthy attitude about food and body image.

In my opinion, when someone who does not have a medical degree and does not have access to a person's compete medical history feels the need to chime in with labels of actual disorders, then that someone is, at the very least, playing doctor. Throwing out Munchausen syndrome is not like asserting an opinion that Aviva is a crazy bitch, and if anyone in this cast should know that, it is Carol.

Yes! Like if she was modelling in a Pantene commercial! Love that scene. I don't generally like Kelly, but she has made me laugh a lot. At her. Sasha206: I remember thinking season 4 was the fakest and the most team-oriented ever, but you're really making me want to give it another chance. Do you think it's better than seasons 5&6? About the same?

I think that was in response to Jill saying she was going to knock him out (when they were discussing the tennis match).

Not snowbound at all, but I'm totally up for watching it again with others so lets us know when you start! The only season I never bought was 4 because I found them all to be insufferable that season, particularly the brunettes. Even if it was the highest rated season, to me, that is the season that destroyed RHONY. That was great! One of the few highlights of that season for me. I think that was also the episode in which Jill featured her Squeez Couture but didn't invite Ramona to that because she blamed Ramona for messing up her deal with Kodak. Bitch, please! Had you been a good spokesperson you would have responded to Ramona's questions with all the reasons why people should use Kodak.

From Carol’s BuzzFeed interview (talking about Andy): CR: I think he had heard about it. And he knew I was upset about it. He was very smart, though. He said, “Rely on the intelligence of the audience, Carole.” I was, like, “I can’t do that! That’s slander! And this is insane!” And you know what? He was right. That sums up my opinion of BookGate. Just because we watch idiots doesn't mean we are idiots. In Buzzfeed she talks about Aviva's condescending attitude...I think they both were quite condescending. If Carol would have jumped off her high horse she would have given the audience, her readers, her publishing company and her peers more credit than she did during the show. And the small minority on Aviv's side consists of people who would not have been inclined to purchase Carol's books anyway. They would have welcomed anything anyone said about Carol’s writing, plain and simple. There are always people like that and those aren't the people Carol needs to worry about. I think this will only add fuel to the crazy fire that is Aviva. Personally, I think Carol needs to cut off the attention Aviva continues to get by not even acknowledging her. Enough with the snarky comments, etc., she needs to be laser focused on the truth about her work and only give simple statements with facts and nothing more. If she must reference the scenes with Aviva, she should say things like, "one of my co-stars said/did, but the facts speak for themselves," and never use her name again. Aviva will continue to unravel and reveal herself as someone who is untrustworthy, ridiculous, vicious and desperate without Carol's help...unless Carol is also somehow benefiting from the extra attention. Not trying to stir the BookGate pudding here, but I do have a question: at what point does one become a real writer? Carol was a producer/writer at ABC. She didn't write book-length manuscripts until What Remains. Aviva had two published writing credits before even being cast as a housewife. Who's to say she couldn't have landed a book deal at some point without RHONY and couldn't have written it herself? (I know she didn't.) She certainly has a compelling story to tell, and there was enough interest in it to include her writings in two books, not to mention the articles written about her before RHONY.

Anyone know if Alex ever actually booked any modelling jobs?

By the looks of it, Mario hooked up with the homeless Irish girl.

Johan face, candy moocher. Johan face. That season really was a home run for them. After the reunion and Kelly's anti-bullying BS, plus seeing her in the tabloids doing fine, floating around with hotties, knowing nothing seems to penetrate Kelly Land, I don't feel guilty anymore about enjoying the hell out of it!