KingOfHearts

When Emma and Hook tell Rumple they messed with the timeline, he won't be happy. He doesn't know what was alternate and what was reality. For all new Rumple knows, they could have stopped him from saving Bae from dying. I'm just saying Rumple isn't a fan of changing destiny. I honestly don't want to get into a time travel logic conversation, because with this show, logic debates never turn out well, lol. Marian is going to be a victim of final destination, to my speculation. We haven't really seen Marian's character do much or her backstory, so I can't really predict what she'll do or how she'll die. The writers may have a plan for it that goes way back, or at least how this situation will get resolved. I highly doubt Regina is going to go all apple turnover on her. If Regina ever hopes to win Robin or Henry back, she can't act like that. She would never kill or hurt Roland's mom, either. I really hope there's more to the puzzle.

I'm not saying Rumple is right to think that. I'm saying he would. He's a crazy villain, not a Doctor in a TARDIS, lol.

The very fact the timeline's been tampered with at all means it's not straight. That includes the present and the future. Rumple will always defend fate. He revolves himself around it - he's the one always chanting magic always comes with a price. Marian used magic to get to the future. There's going to be a price. He may not know if her being in the future will cause a negative effect, but even in the alternate timeline EF, Rumple was working hard to make sure nothing changed.

He had other ways to get to Bae, but he used the dark curse because he prophesied it as destiny. He programmed it all, foresaw Emma as the savior, and knew how it was going to play out. He's so obsessed with fate and destiny that he killed a seer for her powers. He might even kill Marian just to set the timeline straight. He's a villain, after all. I'm not rooting for him to, but that would definitely be in his nature. He's going to hear the news that Marian is from the past, and Regina is going to hear the news he married Belle. Can't wait for that moment. Hope they're both alone in a room.

Putting Regina and Outlaw Queen aside, it's my theory too that Marian is going to die. The whole time travel thing was breaking the laws of magic. There's got to be a serious price for that. This show has taught the lesson that fate is fate. Zelena's defeat was fate shown in the records book, and it happened. Marian living breaks the "dead is dead" rule, too. In a show about moving on with your life, Robin getting his past back doesn't really fit into the show. He finally let Marian go, and moved on to Regina, then all that moving on turned into nothing. He got his old wife back. I don't think Mr. Gold is going to be happy that someone messed up destiny. He's big on that stuff.

Emma and Rumple have a very unique relationship on the show. I love watching them work together. They get crap done. While everyone else is debating morality and/or getting emotional, Emma and Rumple go at it. They're usually the straight-talking voices of logic, which is a very serious need on the show. Even if the solution is sordid or murky, it's not a problem for them. I also like them working together because they're so similar to each other. They were both given up as children and grew up in poor conditions. It made them street-smart with a "trust no one" attitude. In a world of fairy dust, princesses and munchkins, a bottom line cynicism keeps things held together. Rumple seems to have a special platonic liking to Emma. He shows her favor in his deal-making, and he's more willing to work with her than a lot of other people. Most people who work with Rumple get turned into snails, but he seems to like having Emma on his side. She is basically the only one who isn't afraid of him, which makes their relationship all the more fascinating and enjoyable.

One of the reasons I believe she's redeemable is because she wasn't always evil. Before the Stable Boy and her meeting Rumple in We Are Both, she was a kindhearted person. Although brief, she had a "big sister" relationship with Snow. Regina was happy to save Snow's life, and made sure she didn't know about Daniel's true fate out of sympathy. She hated magic and wanted to avoid it at all cost. Her relationship with her father was also deep and loving. At one point in time, she knew better. Of course it may have just been bliss from being in love with Daniel, but she recognized the light and lived in it. She wasn't always a psycho, and this is why I think she's capable of being normal.

She was already a psycho before that, though. She was mass murdering villages. Sorry, I should have been more clear - I meant when she transformed from a harmless teen into a bloodthirsty nutcase. It could possibly have been in The Doctor. Still, the reasoning the writers have is bizarrely inorganic.

Why did Emma never question the circumstances of Graham's death after the curse broke? He was just "collateral damage" apparently. I'm a firm believer that Regina can fully redeem herself, but that starts by saying sorry and admitting your wrongs. I'm curious why Regina said sorry to Cora, Henry, and Belle before saying it to Snow. Regina says she wanted to be redeemed, and the writers want to convince us she already has been, but they don't show how she got there. Emma said "she's changed", but when did she change? Robin was just a boy toy to Regina. There's no way he changed her heart. When did Regina snap and become EQ? In which moment did she decide to be good? Retcon. Retcon. Retcon.

The issue here is the writing and the inconsistencies portrayal. In S1, Regina is full-on Evil Queen with the Mayor Mills rampage. There is absolutely no doubt about it - she's the villain. In S2, she's a totally different character. She immediately wants to redeem herself because of her "love" for Henry that was never shown before. The Charmings are super friendly to her, even though she killed Graham, framed Mary Margaret, and attempted to seduce David just episodes prior. Emma was hostile to Regina for all of S1, but in the first part of S2 it was all "We need to save her!" Then Cora comes to town and starts poisoning Regina's brain again. Even Rumple gave her really bad influence. The whole failsafe plot with Henry totally erased all the progress she had made in S2. And here in 3B, they've done it again with Marian. Why do they like building Regina up only to knock her down again? In S3, she's portrayed as a strict non-abusive mother who has a history with the Charmings. It's like night and day from S1 to S3. They've rushed her redemption with zero remorse for really no good reason. She's more popular being evil, so I don't understand the push to redeem her and whitewash her past. My point: she's two separate characters. S1 Regina doesn't even compute with S3 Regina. It's the worst character incoherency on the show right now. If Regina is a hero, she needs to move on, not just call herself one.

Marian is just a bad situation all around. I hope it gets downplayed from its unpopularity, like Greg/Tamara in the S3 premiere. Here I thought Outlaw Queen was going to play out all Missing Year and have its wedding crashed by the dark curse!

Well, it's not that they didn't do anything, but from a logical perspective they weren't absolutely necessary. There could have been a million other alternate ways Neverland could have played out. Adam and Eddie gave them small things to do, like Lost Girl pep talks, but they only wanted them in Neverland to keep the main cast together. They weren't integral to the plot at all. The dreamshade plot was really dumb, in my opinion. It was just for angst. It was solved with ease because of another contrivance involving "redeemed" villains. (AKA Rumple with his heal-all dreamshade elixir.) Now if Charming actually died from it or stayed on the island with Snow, it would have held more weight. But since we can't lose main cast favorites, that was off the table.

Belle probably has more integrity at this point.

Was Robin in an unhappy marriage with Marian or something? If Robin and Regina were married after being together a long time, I could see him choosing to stay with Regina. But they haven't, so I don't get it. I don't see this "madly in love" vibe from Outlaw Queen. They're not exactly inseparable. Lana wanting Regina to be evil again... ugh. This show is never going to go anywhere if that happens. We'll be prisoners of time in the eternal Evil Queen curse, experiencing the same over and over again. Her character needs to move on into new territory already. I was really hoping Marian was going to be a turning point for her. We'll just have to see if the writers have a different plan!

Wasn't the only mention of Cinderella's stepsisters in Storybrooke "she has two stepsisters she doesn't talk to"? Perhaps, with the fake memories, they thought Anastasia lived in another city. In regard to Regina/Rumple being OP and the heroes being next to useless, I noticed they never really struck a blow to Pan in Neverland. Pan was always on the winning side until the contrived Tree of Regret let Regina win. I know Emma convinced the lost boys, but if it weren't for Regina and the tree it wouldn't have helped at all. The only reason Regina even won against Pan was because Pan was in shock by her ability to escape the tree, so it took him by surprise. He couldn't run. The heroes might assist Regina/Rumple, but they almost never win against the villain themselves in S3. They don't pull a punch at the enemy, they just push Regina/Rumple a little further toward their contrived victory. I don't think Charming or Snow were needed in Neverland at all. Hook was the transportation, Regina was the brute force, Rumple was the brain, and Emma was the leader. Snow and Charming really did nothing but argue over the dreamshade poisoning. They've always been drama magnets, really. S1 was full of Snowing drama, then Snow being framed, being apart in S2, Cora murder guilt, having a baby that Zelena wanted, being fooled by Zelena, etc. I predict the "splitting heart" thing will add some drama in S4 as well.

It looks really fun. I would have loved to have been there and met a cast member or two. To pricey for my taste, though! (Showing off famous people seems to be a lucrative business!)

Still dissecting Regina and her writing. Hiatus does this to me. It's plain to see Regina is written, at least as of S3, as a misunderstood villain. It would help tremendously in the storytelling department if she struggled with good and evil, as she did before Frankenstein failed to resurrect Daniel. If, as reigning queen, she was only after Snow White, it would be a different story. Killing masses for fun, to me, was really out of character. All her life growing up she knew she didn't want to be like her mother in that way. As traumatic as the events are of The Stable Boy, it wasn't enough to create a psychopath. Regina was generally a good person like most of the heroes as a teenager. The other heroes of the bunch have gone through stuff as, if not more, devastating than the Stable Boy, and they didn't go off the edge. Regina wasn't a sociopath pre-Evil Queen, either - her problems surmounted to a controlling mother. I'm still looking for the point Regina truly cracked. Rumple might have corrupted her more than what we saw onscreen, but it still doesn't add up for me. You'd think Regina's conscience would have bothered her during her Evil Queen days. It did in Storybrooke - it spoke through both Jiminy and Henry. Being the Evil Queen should have started to wear after a while. Anyway, the writing problems are strongest with Regina. She's one of my faves, so I hope the writers make a decision and stick with it. Regina needs to stop hopping the fence back and forth. She needs to redeem herself already. These unnecessary roadblocks like Marian don't help. A slow redemption arc would have worked, but so much ground has already been covered. It wouldn't make sense to backtrack this late in the game. Let someone else be evil - most of us are tired of EQ. Leave the snark - ditch the witch.

Even when Rumple and Regina save the day, they hadn't actually got any crap done before their hero moment. Rumple didn't help anyone in Neverland until his contrived shadow-gives-dagger moment at the end in Going Home. Regina didn't do anything in 3B until Zelena's contrived light magic weakness was revealed and Henry cheered her on in Kansas. Rumple/Regina only won at the last moment because of contrivances and conveniences. Only Rumple and Regina could have gone to Neverland and won. Snow, Charming, Emma and Hook weren't even necessary to saving Henry. In fact, they slowed things down by opening the doors to drama. If Regina and Rumple can just use overpowered magic with an arsenal of location, teleportation, killing and morphing spells, why were the Nevengers even necessary? Witch Hunt brought some criminal investigation back to the table that harkened back to S1, which I loved. Seeing Team Hero work as a team to find Zelena was great, but none of the investigation actually helped at all. They didn't uncover Zelena until Rumple told them plainly who she was. Then when Emma was supposedly the one to save them all, she isn't - it's Regina. I'm still at a lost why Emma even feels the need to be in Storybrooke. It seems everyone (minus Hook) is getting along just fine without her. It's either there's a pay-off without a strong arc or a strong arc with no-payoff. Outlaw Queen had an entire half-season, only to be bulldozed in the finale. Emma decides Storybrooke is her home in the finale, but with little to no build-up. I'd like to see what the season finale would have been about to top that. What's more shocking or concluding than breaking the curse?

A large part of what makes Once popular is the candy factor - the dragon, the Wicked Witch, Snow White and Prince Charming, CGI, New York, etc. It's all like candy to viewers. It's everything you've ever wanted to see growing up, all mashed up into one epic. I do enjoy scenery chewing, but I also love the deep relationship dynamics the characters have. You can have candy, but you need some veggies too! Casual viewers will happily gloss over the plot holes if there's enough Disneyfication on screen. Regina is a prime example. People love watching her as the Evil Queen because she's a big-time Disney villain, but they don't care how she got that way or why she hasn't changed. Outlaw Queen is definitely a Disney-style romance, so it gets all the fawning over as well. Frozen is going to be an entire factory of sweets.

Oz has so much lore from the original thirteen books that could have worked so well in the Once universe. Even the Wizard of Oz MGM movie had more Ozian detail than what was shown on the show. There were four witches in the books, all with different personalities and backstories. On the show we have two extras, Blue Fairy 2.0 and Zelena. Dorothy was accurate, but was written blandly. I thought for sure she'd have a bigger role in things, turn up in the Land Without Magic, or be revealed to be one of the main cast. Oh, and Dr. Whale should have totally been the Wizard of Oz. This was my original theory: Emma was Dorothy as a kid in the foster system. She was living with foster parents in Kansas. After her adventure in Oz, no one believed her. She ended up surmising it was only a dream, and forgot about it growing up. Oz was untouched by the Cora-Dome, and Zelena's pendant gave her agelessness. Once Zelena comes to Storybrooke, Emma begins to have flashbacks. In these flashbacks, she finds out how she can defeat Zelena.

What I'll miss most about Neal is how his character affected other characters. I never found him entertaining, but I still think he was a valuable asset to the story being told. He brought an ingredient of cynicism to the show that even surpassed Emma's in magnitude. While the show was on a fantasy high, he brought it back down to earth in some moments. He was a "real world" buddy to Emma, who she could relate to. OUAT is about our world and fairy tale land colliding, but as time goes on there's less and less from our world. Emma is in the book and beginning to embrace her identity as a fairy tale character, so that reality cynicism is slowly drifting away. I used to dislike Neal, but the more he's gone, the more I realize his character was needed.

3A had a sharp contrast with S2, in that it had a strong arc that stuck through the entire half-season. It was slower paced, character focused, dialog intensive, and darker/less cartoony. In fact it got so slow, it was almost too much of a good thing. Unlike all other antagonists on the show, Pan wasn't in your face or scenery chewing the whole way. He was subtle and mysterious. Neverland was out of everyone's element, so it tilted the playing field - especially where magic was concerned. Even Rumple was daunted before ever even setting foot on the island. 3A also introduced a few new characters that I actually liked. (Pan, Tinkerbell, and Ariel) I thought all the main cast had an equal and fair amount of time in the spotlight. My only big beef with the arc was being away for Storybrooke so long. Storybrooke was only featured in 4 of the 11 episodes. The finale episode was one of my favorites of the entire series. And here comes 3B. In no way, shape or form was it as bad as S2. Thankfully, the story consistency 3A had was continued on with the ongoing Zelena threat. This half of the season sat on a very grand scale, reaching all the way from New York to Oz to Enchanted Forest to Storybrooke. The Wicked Witch was so iconic, as was Oz. There's an elegance to Oz that brings the story to a new level. I sensed an essence of whimsy the show hadn't had since S1. The fatal flaw to 3B was the character development, or lack thereof. All characters on the show, including Regina and Zelena, were victims of bad character writing. Heck, even the new disposable secondary characters suffered. (Rapunzel, Lumiere) However, what I loved most about 3B was the premise. The setup Going Home gave us had my mind going for a long time. I only wish the execution was closer to what fans thought it would be. Except for the character issues, I enjoyed most of S3 and found it much more memorable than most of S2.

The most glaring problem that Season 2 was the incoherent story arcs. In S1, there were only a few major storylines, but they all fit together perfectly. (Top 3: Curse, Snowing, and Emma vs Regina) But in S2, the arcs were all over the place. You had Storybrooke post-curse and Team Princess going at the same time for nine episodes. Then, after that, it was the Cora in Storybrooke. Then the Nealfire in Manhattan storyline came up while the Cora story was still going, and after Cora died, it was Greg/Tamara for the rest of the season. (Plus a couple of irrelevant stupid plots like Lacey and August) S1 had a giant story arc covering the whole thing. S2 was the complete opposite - it remained totally random throughout its run. If Cora had lived through the whole season as a Big Bad, with Regina slowly beginning to realize her real enemy was her mother, then S2 would have kept viewers watching. Cora would have easily been the drive for the rest of the season. In my honest opinion, she was killed off too soon. In 3B, Zelena was Cora the Sequel, but I didn't find the sinisterness in her as I did with Cora, nor the scale of epicness. S2 was a major opportunity for character growth. You had Emma reuniting with her parents, Regina without power, Rumple finally finding Bae, and Emma with her mom in the Enchanted Forest. It just writes itself. Thankfully 3A fixed the incoherency issues for the most part, aside from the lack of Storybrooke. Bleeding Through with Regina and Snow, and Hook and Emma in the vault in There's No Place Like Home. Amazing moments... why don't they see that as interesting? More stuff happened there than a dozen action sequences.

If Regina goes to the good side, someone else needs to go to the bad side. My vote is Rumple. He's supposed to be the freaking Dark One, master of dark arts and evil, but he's just honeymooning with Belle while having dagger trust issues... really? His son, which he centered his life around, just died. He has to crack eventually. If he went straight-up imp in Storybrooke, he'd be more entertaining to watch. With all this "happy families" stuff, the bottom has to fall out somewhere for somebody.

I'm really interested in seeing what happens to the character writing in S4. None of the characters are in good positions, development-wise. The writers have backed themselves into a corner with every one of them. The only storyline that has a positive outlook right now is CaptainSwan, and maybe Emma's life in Storybrooke. Snowing is busy with a baby, Regina is stuck in the Marian issue, Henry is probably going to be coaching Regina, Neal is dead, and Emma is caught in the awkward Marian situation as well. From most angles, it doesn't look good or hopeful. The Frozen plot may help pull it out of the water this season, but that remains to be seen. Things need to get very shaken up to give these characters somewhere to go. Best case scenario: The main cast gets a load of relationship/family work done. Worst case scenario: Marian plot lasts multiple episodes and Frozen takes over as Adam and Eddie's newest cartoony extravaganza.