Without A Trace - General Discussion

[GHScorpiosRule]

I looked and didn't see a topic for this show, and since I've discovered it airing on Escape, and I know that those that are watching that network as well, I thought I'd create a topic.

I'd forgotten how much I missed this show. And before I start talking about the show as a whole from the characters we met in the first few seasons, I just watched "White Balance" last night, where VIOLA DAVIS was the mother of the missing teen boy. The other missing teen was a White girl. While I enjoyed the episode and found it hitting close to home how the media will always focus on the pretty white teenager when it comes to missing or kidnapped children, I hate the cliff hanger ending, where we didn't learn if it was the white girl who died or Darnell. I suspect it was the girl, since the highers up took away all the support that Vivian had when trying to locate Darnell, and the girl (whose name I'm blanking on), had Sam, Martin and Elena working on her case, because it was Elena who told Jack over the phone they were sure and got a positive ID. Yet at the end, we see Jack walking to both mothers, and the screen fading to black, without the audience learning which kid survived. But since it appeared Darnell hadn't been kidnapped, I don't understand why he didn't just go home after he found his dad. And no way will I believe that snot nosed spoiled, and ENTITLED white boy could get the best of him and kill him. While I do believe the rapist found the girl and killed her after she got away.

And for some reason, I don't remember so many of the missing people dyng/getting killed. But so many aren't found alive. It's quite depressing.

But I will say that I continue to hate/loathe Talia Balsam, who played Maria Malone, Jack's wife/ex-wife. She ALWAYS plays the bitchy woman. And Maria was no exception.

So, who else is watching? @shapeshifter?

[Dr.OO7]

I never realized how much I liked this show until I started catching the reruns on Escape and Pop.

Eric Close/Martin is so friggin cute! He's got that boyish look I love.

Sometimes I wish the writers had just "gone there" with Martin and Danny. There were times the HoYay between them was off the charts.

I really hated that Martin and Samantha never got back together.

[ForReal]

I used to watch this show regularly and I tune in from time to time when I see the reruns now. It's like catching up with an old friend. Yes, Jack's ex-wife (the first one? Did he marry the second woman he was with, before Sam?) was mean, mean, mean. I didn't like it when he ended up with Sam, though. Just didn't work for me. I did like her with Martin (who, yes, is so friggin cute). 

I liked the episode when Jack finally found that man's son who had been kidnapped, the man who kept checking in with him. That was a good episode.

[GHScorpiosRule]

26 minutes ago, ForReal said:

I used to watch this show regularly and I tune in from time to time when I see the reruns now. It's like catching up with an old friend. Yes, Jack's ex-wife (the first one? Did he marry the second woman he was with, before Sam?) was mean, mean, mean. I didn't like it when he ended up with Sam, though. Just didn't work for me. I did like her with Martin (who, yes, is so friggin cute). 

I liked the episode when Jack finally found that man's son who had been kidnapped, the man who kept checking in with him. That was a good episode.

That was Anne Cassidy, played by Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, and I believe they broke up after she miscarried. Season five has started so that will be coming up in my queue.

That was played by Charles Dutton. I wish I knew how old Sean had been when he was kidnapped. It seemed he was old enough to have remembered what his parents would look like since he could talk more than just toddler babble. But from the ending it was clear he’d forgotten and that’s why he didn’t tell him he was his dad.

Sam is someone I really can’t stand. I have no logical reason for it. 

I thought the two parter, ” Doppelgänger” with Tony Goldwyn playing twins was really good.

The show really had some really good guest stars. But again, I hate the cliffhanger episodes where we don’t learn the truth, or where they don’t show the reunions with kids and their parents. Like in ”Taken”, where Brian/Max, tried to help a kid who his “father” kidnapped to molest, and they learned that Brian had been kidnapped seven years earlier himself. And at the end, they didn’t show the mother and son reunion, so I felt cheated of the emotional payoff.

[Dr.OO7]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:34 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

That was played by Charles Dutton. I wish I knew how old Sean had been when he was kidnapped. It seemed he was old enough to have remembered what his parents would look like since he could talk more than just toddler babble. But from the ending it was clear he’d forgotten and that’s why he didn’t tell him he was his dad.

Talk about a bittersweet ending. The man finally finds his son after SIX years. . .but his parents marriage has fallen apart and because he was a baby when he was taken, he doesn't remember them.

On 2/6/2019 at 8:34 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

But again, I hate the cliffhanger episodes where we don’t learn the truth,

I hate the one when they're looking for the father of the death row inmate. They find him AND the real killer, but all we get is the team sitting around the office, waiting for a call. We never know if it was in time to stop an innocent man from being executed.

On 2/6/2019 at 8:34 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Sam is someone I really can’t stand. I have no logical reason for it. 

Perhaps it's her screwing up a happy relationship with a sweet guy who adored her to continue pining away for an emotionally unavailable screw-up?

On 2/6/2019 at 7:52 PM, ForReal said:

I did like her with Martin (who, yes, is so friggin cute). 

He has such a beautiful jawline. The kind you want to just trail your fingers across, followed by soft, light kisses. . .😉

Edited February 9, 2019 by Camille

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Camille said:

Perhaps it's her screwing up a happy relationship with a sweet guy who adored her to continue pining away for an emotionally unavailable screw-up?

Nope, that’s not it. I think it’s the actress. I didn’t care too much about the live lives of the characters until the show decided all of them had to be with each other:

Martin-Sam

Sam-Jack

Danny-Elena

 BAH! Especially since I was more interested in the stories. Even if as the seasons progressed, they did away with any semblance of trying to be realistic regarding the rights of suspects.🙄🙄🙄😒😒

The bigger issue I’m grappling with is how the Feds can start looking for missing adults when they’ve only been missing for a couple of hours! When for most of my life I’d read and seen that people, even teens have to be missing for at least 48 hours, before cops will even start to investigate. Just teevee, I guess?

[ForReal]

25 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The bigger issue I’m grappling with is how the Feds can start looking for missing adults when they’ve only been missing for a couple of hours! When for most of my life I’d read and seen that people, even teens have to be missing for at least 48 hours, before cops will even start to investigate. Just teevee, I guess?

I know, right? Whenever I hear people in real life say the police won't get involved right away, I always think, "Wait, on TV they do!" Perhaps a rare instance when it would be nice to see real life more like TV.

[Dr.OO7]

12 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The bigger issue I’m grappling with is how the Feds can start looking for missing adults when they’ve only been missing for a couple of hours! When for most of my life I’d read and seen that people, even teens have to be missing for at least 48 hours, before cops will even start to investigate. Just teevee, I guess?

It depends on the circumstances of the disappearance. It's one thing if it looks like the person willfully took off, it's another if doesn't. 

Something that the show has cited--I love how we always got a time stamp on how long the person had been missing and it varies from as little as 27 minutes to as much as 4 days. There was often discussion of "Why are we even looking for this person when he/she is probably just off having fun?", vs. "He/she would never have just disappeared in the middle of the day." 

In real life, there's been a lot of campaigning over the years to do away with the time requirement. It certain situations--an elderly person, an ill person, a child, obvious indication of foul play--it doesn't even apply, because it's instantly assumed that the person in question is in some kind of danger, rather than willfully saying "Screw This, I'm Outta Here".

[andromeda331]

I love this show too. I was always surprised at how many missing people they found dead. Usually shows didn't do that. But it was surprisingly realistic. 

I love the team. I didn't like Jack and Sam together I know it happens all the time but I just don't like seeing characters dating when one or both is married. I loved Sam and Martin they were such a good couple. I loved Vivian.

I do love when their look for the teen who had been hiding her pregnancy and Jack finds one of her friends in her dad's office hiding under the desk and Jack just says hi and asks if she wants to come out from under there. 

I love the episode about the paparazzo they were looking for had gone up to get pictures of the CEO after their attempts to help with contaminated failed. Because he knew the photos with his mistress could be useful in a divorce which would end up ruining the company anyways. Or the poor girl who thinks she was kidnapped. The Underground Railroad episode and the one when Martin's aunt's missing although its depressing. 

[Dr.OO7]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

do love when their look for the teen who had been hiding her pregnancy and Jack finds one of her friends in her dad's office hiding under the desk and Jack just says hi and asks if she wants to come out from under there. 

Heh. And then Martin comes next to him and says "Hi" as if it's the most natural thing for a teenage girl to be hiding under a desk.

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 hours ago, Camille said:

It depends on the circumstances of the disappearance. It's one thing if it looks like the person willfully took off, it's another if doesn't. 

Something that the show has cited--I love how we always got a time stamp on how long the person had been missing and it varies from as little as 27 minutes to as much as 4 days. There was often discussion of "Why are we even looking for this person when he/she is probably just off having fun?", vs. "He/she would never have just disappeared in the middle of the day." 

In real life, there's been a lot of campaigning over the years to do away with the time requirement. It certain situations--an elderly person, an ill person, a child, obvious indication of foul play--it doesn't even apply, because it's instantly assumed that the person in question is in some kind of danger, rather than willfully saying "Screw This, I'm Outta Here".

Well yes, in recent years I’m sure there has been campaigning, but within the show’s context and during that time, it was always a head scratcher for me when it came to non-celebrity adults and teens who weren’t troubled. I also didn’t include children in my original comment because we have had Amber alerts for them before this show aired.

And considering this show premiered shortly after 9/11, in real life, the Feds were more involved and concentrated on global espionage cases. Then again, Jack’s team was specifically for missing persons. So I guess my entire post is moot.😜

[Dr.OO7]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:34 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

thought the two parter, ” Doppelgänger” with Tony Goldwyn playing twins was really good.

I like the part in Part 2 when Martin shows up at the homeless shelter and the guy asks him, "Did you lose your job? Do you need a place to stay?" and Martin smiles and says "That's funny." in a tone of voice that clearly means, "Fuck you, asshole." 

[MarylandGirl]

Love this show! And glad there's a thread for it. Just watched Eating Away--did I miss something, or did they not determine who killed Ivy's pimp?

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 2/12/2019 at 8:30 AM, MarylandGirl said:

Just watched Eating Away--did I miss something, or did they not determine who killed Ivy's pimp?

Nope. I think they thought it was the prostitute, but they didn't have any proof? This show just got so Lazy in the fifth season--leaving the end on a cliffhanger, so that the viewers don't know what happened to the victim. Like in "Primed" where the missing person was involved in causing the death of a friend, or actually a girl they were messing around with, and she fell off the bridge. Patrick J. Adams from Suits was clearly the "killer" but the last scene of him was him smirking, while Sam had a flashback to her childhood, and the team never found the missing person. And the show just kept going on to different episodes and is slowly becoming the Sam Spade show, because you know, only her issues matter. And I wanted to snatch her bald for ditching her sister, and acting as if her sister had betrayed her when they were kids, and it turned out that her sister was being raped and SAM killed the rapist, and her SISTER was the one traumatized and who went away because the rapist got her pregnant. Not to say that Sam wasn't also, because she did kill the guy, but the way Sam was acting toward her sister, it made it seem like her sister was a druggie or had problems and that Sam had to pick up the pieces, and that was NOT the case at all.  God, I LOATHE Sam. And it's also clear toward the end of the fifth season that Poppy Montgomery is pregnant.

[Dr.OO7]

48 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And it's also clear toward the end of the fifth season that Poppy Montgomery is pregnant.

Shows do such a terrible job with the "Hide Your Pregnancy" trope. I wonder if that's why they decide to write in so many actresses Real Life pregnancies even when their characters situations make no sense. I never found it plausible that Sam--someone who had previously expressed ambivalence about having kids in the first place--would opt to keep a child conceived from a one-night-stand. Would it have killed the writers to hurriedly write a reconciliation with Martin or Jack? 

Speaking of Martin, I was watching the episode where he gets shot and. . .

Danny's in love with him. I'm sorry, I can't come to any other conclusion after seeing the way he reacts. He's even more upset than Samantha!

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Nope. I think they thought it was the prostitute, but they didn't have any proof? This show just got so Lazy in the fifth season--leaving the end on a cliffhanger, so that the viewers don't know what happened to the victim. Like in "Primed" where the missing person was involved in causing the death of a friend, or actually a girl they were messing around with, and she fell off the bridge. Patrick J. Adams from Suits was clearly the "killer" but the last scene of him was him smirking, while Sam had a flashback to her childhood, and the team never found the missing person. And the show just kept going on to different episodes and is slowly becoming the Sam Spade show, because you know, only her issues matter. And I wanted to snatch her bald for ditching her sister, and acting as if her sister had betrayed her when they were kids, and it turned out that her sister was being raped and SAM killed the rapist, and her SISTER was the one traumatized and who went away because the rapist got her pregnant. Not to say that Sam wasn't also, because she did kill the guy, but the way Sam was acting toward her sister, it made it seem like her sister was a druggie or had problems and that Sam had to pick up the pieces, and that was NOT the case at all.  God, I LOATHE Sam. And it's also clear toward the end of the fifth season that Poppy Montgomery is pregnant.

I hated Sam's attitude towards her sister. Why the hell is she so upset? It really seemed like we were going to find out she was druggie or drunk all the time. Sam kept acting like she was expecting find out just that and completely rude to her sister's husband. But then we find out what happen and her anger makes zero sense plus Sam comes off as an even bigger bitch for being so angry at her traumatized sister. I wish we had seen her sister go off on her. She was so horrible to her when she came to visit and we later find out the only reason her sister came was to ask her to check and see if she's a match for the baby she gave up. Who treats their sister like that after what she went through? 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Camille said:

Shows do such a terrible job with the "Hide Your Pregnancy" trope. I wonder if that's why they decide to write in so many actresses Real Life pregnancies even when their characters situations make no sense. I never found it plausible that Sam--someone who had previously expressed ambivalence about having kids in the first place--would opt to keep a child conceived from a one-night-stand. Would it have killed the writers to hurriedly write a reconciliation with Martin or Jack? 

Speaking of Martin, I was watching the episode where he gets shot and. . .

Danny's in love with him. I'm sorry, I can't come to any other conclusion after seeing the way he reacts. He's even more upset than Samantha!

Shows are the worse at it. I'm not sure why its so hard. But I'd rather the hide the pregnancy then shows writing in a pregnancy that makes no sense for the character. So many of them make no sense. Sam randomly getting pregnant from a one night stand didn't make sense. Then again I might not hate it so much if she didn't end up with him. They didn't know each other, she didn't remember his name, and the only thing they had in common was with their son. There was nothing there and no reason to put them together except shows always do. They easily could have gone with the rarely used joint custody and co-parenting.  If they were going to go with her getting pregnant by Martin and Jack, I'd rather they go with Martin since Jack already got unexpected pregnancy with Anne. I'm not sure if it would be fun to see him going through that storyline again this time with Sam.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Camille said:

Shows do such a terrible job with the "Hide Your Pregnancy" trope. I wonder if that's why they decide to write in so many actresses Real Life pregnancies even when their characters situations make no sense. I never found it plausible that Sam--someone who had previously expressed ambivalence about having kids in the first place--would opt to keep a child conceived from a one-night-stand. Would it have killed the writers to hurriedly write a reconciliation with Martin or Jack? 

12 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Shows are the worse at it. I'm not sure why its so hard. But I'd rather the hide the pregnancy then shows writing in a pregnancy that makes no sense for the character. So many of them make no sense. Sam randomly getting pregnant from a one night stand didn't make sense. Then again I might not hate it so much if she didn't end up with him. They didn't know each other, she didn't remember his name, and the only thing they had in common was with their son. There was nothing there and no reason to put them together except shows always do. They easily could have gone with the rarely used joint custody and co-parenting.  If they were going to go with her getting pregnant by Martin and Jack, I'd rather they go with Martin since Jack already got unexpected pregnancy with Anne. I'm not sure if it would be fun to see him going through that storyline again this time with Sam.

Actually, They did a decent job of hiding Poppy's pregnancy--I just knew that she was pregnant by her face being fuller and all of a sudden Sam is holding folders in front of her belly, and she's sitting down behind the table. She had the baby in December of 2007--that would be season six, and I can't remember if they had Sam get knocked up by her one night stand Brian, played by Adam Kaufman, who was her real life boyfriend and father of her baby at the time, then, or if it was in the last season, seven? Poppy was around three or four months when season five ended.

Then there was Sam's bitchy attitude toward a missing person's ex, or someone. I can't recall if it was Vivian or Martin who asked her what was up with her attitude. It could have been in "Primed" though I can't recall.

And all this stuff with her sister, and Sam being the one who killed the rapist is such a retcon. Because we knew from season one that there was no trauma in Sam's past; and we saw her call her mom after that one episode where the single mother had been murdered because her "friend" stole one of the drug/cocaine packets she was to deliver. We saw Sam have flashbacks to when she was a kid and then she called her mom at the end of the episode. So I'm not buying this estrangement from her mom.🙄😒

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Shows are the worse at it. I'm not sure why its so hard. But I'd rather the hide the pregnancy then shows writing in a pregnancy that makes no sense for the character. So many of them make no sense. Sam randomly getting pregnant from a one night stand didn't make sense. Then again I might not hate it so much if she didn't end up with him. They didn't know each other, she didn't remember his name, and the only thing they had in common was with their son. There was nothing there and no reason to put them together except shows always do. They easily could have gone with the rarely used joint custody and co-parenting.  If they were going to go with her getting pregnant by Martin and Jack, I'd rather they go with Martin since Jack already got unexpected pregnancy with Anne. I'm not sure if it would be fun to see him going through that storyline again this time with Sam.

EXACTLY

[GHScorpiosRule]

I had TOTALLY forgotten that this show had a cross-over with CSI! Grissom!!!!!!! "Where & Why" is the episode, which aired today. This was before he went all bearded and turned into a depressed character.

[Linderhill]

yes, it was interesting to me because Billy Petersen was so very resistant to appearing or supporting any of the other CSI shows.  Seeing Jack in Las Vegas was a bit jarring I remember.  Of course I only vaguely remember anything about the plot of the crossover.  I do remember being disappointed that it was only Jack that visited.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, Linderhill said:

yes, it was interesting to me because Billy Petersen was so very resistant to appearing or supporting any of the other CSI shows.  Seeing Jack in Las Vegas was a bit jarring I remember.  Of course I only vaguely remember anything about the plot of the crossover.  I do remember being disappointed that it was only Jack that visited.

And of COURSE the first parter was on CSI. Yeah Petersen never appeared on any of the franchises, but they appeared on the mothership as Backdoor pilots.

And Samantha is a MORON. It’s 2007, abortion is legal in New York. She acts as if this is an unwanted pregnancy and is being forced to carry the baby to full term. Even though in real life, Poppy was in her third trimester, Sam is just over her first-13 weeks.

She told Jack, But is being a jerk to Danny when he gave her that adorable t-shirt; AND she’s drinking coffee. I think maybe pregnant women are allowed a half a cup? But my understanding is NO CAFFEINE! But the look on her face, her defiance, not to mention attitude, why is she having the baby?

[MarylandGirl]

I hated Sam getting back together with Jack, then hated her ending up with the baby's father. I would have preferred that she'd ended up back with Martin, even though they had their issues. And Danny and Elena? Ugh. But that's mainly because I always liked Danny and never liked Elena.

Actually, I never liked any of Jack's relationships--his ex-wife, Sam, Anne. Especially Anne...in rewatching, realizing how quickly they got together after her husband died. They always just seemed sad together, never happy. (I guess there was the tie stuff? Maybe that was supposed to seem positive?) And then, with Jack, she loses the pregnancy, then basically ghosts him? It was a loss for him, too...

[Linderhill]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And Samantha is a MORON. It’s 2007, abortion is legal in New York. She acts as if this is an unwanted pregnancy and is being forced to carry the baby to full term. Even though in real life, Poppy was in her third trimester, Sam is just over her first-13 weeks.

She told Jack, But is being a jerk to Danny when he gave her that adorable t-shirt; AND she’s drinking coffee. I think maybe pregnant women are allowed a half a cup? But my understanding is NO CAFFEINE! But the look on her face, her defiance, not to mention attitude, why is she having the baby?

I fully agree.  Samantha was such an unpleasant character all around.  I think I even started to prefer Mumbles Degado, the designated Danny girlfriend there towards the end of the series.  And that's saying something since I couldn't stand Elena and found her a completely unnecessary character, screaming of the producers wanting a "sexy" woman on the team.   Samantha was always so unpleasant and obviously a favorite of the show runners.  

I remember being so annoyed when the Viv storyline got sidelined by the Writer's Strike and became AllAboutJack, again.  Viv was a criminally underused character.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yeah. Right after having the D&C I think it was because she’d lost the baby-she just ups and leaves. She contributed to the miscarriage because she couldn’t wait for maintenance or whoever to strip the carpet and decided to do it herself. Which caused her to have pains. Did she ever go to the doctor to make sure everything was done okay? Not that we saw. And it’s not as if they had a one night stand, she got pregnant and so they decided to have a relationship. They had been dating for nearly a year.

But I’m glad she’s gone because having her character on the show was so STOOOOOPID. Like the Feds have a lawyer on standby, telling them what they can or can’t do DURING the investigation or questioning.🙄🙄🙄

[andromeda331]

28 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

I hated Sam getting back together with Jack, then hated her ending up with the baby's father. I would have preferred that she'd ended up back with Martin, even though they had their issues. And Danny and Elena? Ugh. But that's mainly because I always liked Danny and never liked Elena.

I hated that too. She gets back together with Jack then just suddenly falls in love with her baby's father. I'd prefer her end up with Martin too. I did like Danny and Elena. I didn't like Elena at first but she grew on me. 
 

Quote

Actually, I never liked any of Jack's relationships--his ex-wife, Sam, Anne. Especially Anne...in rewatching, realizing how quickly they got together after her husband died. They always just seemed sad together, never happy. (I guess there was the tie stuff? Maybe that was supposed to seem positive?) And then, with Jack, she loses the pregnancy, then basically ghosts him? It was a loss for him, too...

I didn't either. I really don't know why he was with any of the three. I never really saw why he loved Marie or Sam or Anne. Although I did like Vivian calling him on out on the first to relationships when she was mad at him coming back and taking her new job from him. Jack got all annoyed with Vivian's 'tude and she goes off on him.

Viv: It means you screwed Samantha and dumped her like garbage, you go back to your wife but you don't really try and make that work, you recommend me for a job then take that back, and you come along and say sorry like I'm supposed to go back as if nothing has happened. Well, you know what, you need to take responsibility for the things you do, Jack, and grow up.

[MarylandGirl]

I will admit that on rewatch, Elena has grown on me a bit...

[Dr.OO7]

On 2/23/2019 at 4:14 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And Samantha is a MORON. It’s 2007, abortion is legal in New York. She acts as if this is an unwanted pregnancy and is being forced to carry the baby to full term. 

The dreaded Good Girls Avoid Abortion trope. No matter how unfavorable the circumstances of the pregnancy, no matter how much the woman clearly doesn't want the baby, she will keep it, complaining all the way.

On 2/23/2019 at 4:24 PM, MarylandGirl said:

I hated Sam getting back together with Jack, then hated her ending up with the baby's father. I would have preferred that she'd ended up back with Martin, even though they had their issues.

Same here. Martin was gorgeous, had no issues, was single, and adored her--she outright told him "You make me really happy"--much better for her than Jack.

But even she and Jack would have been better than her baby daddy. At least she KNEW Jack, as opposed to the five minutes she'd known the other guy.

On 2/23/2019 at 4:24 PM, MarylandGirl said:

And Danny and Elena? Ugh. But that's mainly because I always liked Danny and never liked Elena.

I liked them, but there was this uncomfortable air of Token Minority Couple about them.

On 2/23/2019 at 4:27 PM, Linderhill said:

I think I even started to prefer Mumbles Degado,

I cringed every time she talked.

On 2/23/2019 at 4:27 PM, Linderhill said:

Viv was a criminally underused character.

That heart trouble storyline was because Marianne Jean Baptiste was getting pissed off about her lack of storyline and threatening to quit if she didn't get more.

On 2/23/2019 at 5:05 PM, andromeda331 said:

Viv: It means you screwed Samantha and dumped her like garbage, you go back to your wife but you don't really try and make that work, you recommend me for a job then take that back, and you come along and say sorry like I'm supposed to go back as if nothing has happened. Well, you know what, you need to take responsibility for the things you do, Jack, and grow up.

That was an awesome scene. For all his flaws, I thought the Jack/Vivian friendship was one of the best parts of the show. Especially since unlike the majority of male/female friendships on TV, there wasn't any sexual tension.

Things I really hated about Jack:

His hypocrisy. This guy pulls stunts that in real life would get him disciplined/demoted/suspended/fired/arrested, but instantly blasts anyone else who bends or breaks the rules. I love that moment when he's chewing Vivian out for lying to him about Martin's shooting of a suspect and she shuts him up by reminding him of how many times she's covered for HIM.

[Linderhill]

I think the only thing I liked about the Anne storyline was that she was age appropriate which is amazingly rare in television and movies. I remember seeing Elena Delgado/Rosalyn Sanchez in a movie while WAT was still on and being amazed that I could understand everything she said. The movie (something with The Rock being the father of a small daughter, can't remember what it was called) had to have been filmed before or during the production of WAT so the actress couldn't have suddenly learned to enunciate then forgotten how. This leads me to believe that the show production sound people just didn't bother to try to make her understandable. Of course the whole reason Jack insisted on hiring another body was bogus anyway. So Martin and Viv were still recovering from their respective injuries/surgeries, we'd seen in previous seasons the team work with a couple of agents successfully. Nope, it was clearly the PTB deciding that they needed a "sexy" woman on the team. Especially, since one of the earliest episodes had Mumbles posing as a stripper with the obligatory unnecessary extended dance scene.

[GHScorpiosRule]

PREACH! @Linderhill! Thank goodness for my closed captioning, because it was TORTURE trying to understand what Elena was saying half the time. Then all those "Mamis" and "Papis" drove me batshit crazy.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Linderhill said:

I think the only thing I liked about the Anne storyline was that she was age appropriate which is amazingly rare in television and movies. I remember seeing Elena Delgado/Rosalyn Sanchez in a movie while WAT was still on and being amazed that I could understand everything she said. The movie (something with The Rock being the father of a small daughter, can't remember what it was called) had to have been filmed before or during the production of WAT so the actress couldn't have suddenly learned to enunciate then forgotten how. This leads me to believe that the show production sound people just didn't bother to try to make her understandable. Of course the whole reason Jack insisted on hiring another body was bogus anyway. So Martin and Viv were still recovering from their respective injuries/surgeries, we'd seen in previous seasons the team work with a couple of agents successfully. Nope, it was clearly the PTB deciding that they needed a "sexy" woman on the team. Especially, since one of the earliest episodes had Mumbles posing as a stripper with the obligatory unnecessary extended dance scene.

That was true they didn't really need to add a new person to the team. They had been able to handle cases with two or three agents with no problems.  Plus if the actress who plays Viv had to go to the producer, writer or who ever to get storylines for her or she'd quit. Then clearly they didn't need another new person to come up with storylines for. They had five people to come up with storylines and arcs for that they clearly weren't. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

 I just couldn’t concentrate on “Fight/Flight” because of the orange-ish lipstick that was smeared over Poppy’s upper lip.

The missing felon mom was stupid to jump in front of the truck her just as stupid son who thought he could get the money for whatever stolen stuff, by attempting to drive a truck he wasn’t tall enough, let alone old enough to drive. What the hell did he think would happen when he hit the gas while his mother was standing right in front of it? That she was Caspar the Ghost?!😒😒

I was only invested in Viv’s Plot of shutting down the human trafficking ring. I’d forgotten the cute kid from E.T. was the pimp/abuser/boss.

[Dr.OO7]

16 hours ago, Linderhill said:

Especially, since one of the earliest episodes had Mumbles posing as a stripper with the obligatory unnecessary extended dance scene.

And it was just a recycling of the episode where Samantha went undercover as a lower-income woman. Only she gets to wear frumpy, drab clothes, while Mumbles (ha!) gets to wear next to nothing.

16 hours ago, Linderhill said:

Nope, it was clearly the PTB deciding that they needed a "sexy" woman on the team. 

It's like when TPTB of Homicide: Life On The Street hired Michael Michelle because she was "fuckable". (That's an actual quote from one of them.

[andromeda331]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 I just couldn’t concentrate on “Fight/Flight” because of the orange-ish lipstick that was smeared over Poppy’s upper lip.

The missing felon mom was stupid to jump in front of the truck her just as stupid son who thought he could get the money for whatever stolen stuff, by attempting to drive a truck he wasn’t tall enough, let alone old enough to drive. What the hell did he think would happen when he hit the gas while his mother was standing right in front of it? That she was Caspar the Ghost?!😒😒

I was only invested in Viv’s Plot of shutting down the human trafficking ring. I’d forgotten the cute kid from E.T. was the pimp/abuser/boss.

Yeah, that was a stupid way for the mom to die and for her son to accidentally kill her.

[MarylandGirl]

On 2/25/2019 at 10:30 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

 I just couldn’t concentrate on “Fight/Flight” because of the orange-ish lipstick that was smeared over Poppy’s upper lip.

The missing felon mom was stupid to jump in front of the truck her just as stupid son who thought he could get the money for whatever stolen stuff, by attempting to drive a truck he wasn’t tall enough, let alone old enough to drive. What the hell did he think would happen when he hit the gas while his mother was standing right in front of it? That she was Caspar the Ghost?!😒😒

I was only invested in Viv’s Plot of shutting down the human trafficking ring. I’d forgotten the cute kid from E.T. was the pimp/abuser/boss.

Agreed on it being stupid for her to jump in front of the car. I guess she delusionally thought that would stop him?

And I'd totally forgotten about the twist with who the pimp/abuser/boss was--and didn't realize it was the kid from ET!

On 2/26/2019 at 1:56 AM, Camille said:

And it was just a recycling of the episode where Samantha went undercover as a lower-income woman. Only she gets to wear frumpy, drab clothes, while Mumbles (ha!) gets to wear next to nothing.

It's like when TPTB of Homicide: Life On The Street hired Michael Michelle because she was "fuckable". (That's an actual quote from one of them.

Those undercover Samantha episodes were really well done. Not so much the Elena one...

And ugh, don't get me started on Michael Michelle...Homicide is one of my favorite shows of all time, and her coming in kind of ruined it for me (I liked Callie Thorne on it though--wasn't she enough?)

[Dr.OO7]

Escape is jumping around with the schedule again. Starting from today, it's on weekdays 6-8am (beginning with Season 1 AGAIN), and 6-9pm (continuing with what's been airing so far)

PopTV airs it Tuesday and Wednesday mornings (12--3am).

Edited March 1, 2019 by Camille

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm going to have to see if POPTV is available in my area. So sick and tired of Escape going on the fritz on a monthly basis. Episodes 10-13 didn't record because they were down!

[andromeda331]

That's stinks. I don't have POPTV and can only watch it whenever it pops up on Escape. 

[Dr.OO7]

22 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So sick and tired of Escape going on the fritz on a monthly basis. Episodes 10-13 didn't record because they were down!

I was looking forward to rewatching the Season 4 episode where Martin finally admits to his painkiller addiction and seeks help and now I have to wait all over again. Aargh.

I love that final scene where he shows up at the AA meeting and Danny's waiting for him. First of all, as jarring as it is to see him in a skullcap and sweats instead of his usual suit and tie, he still looks fucking hot--not many guys can pull off the dressed-down look as well as the clean-cut one, but he nails it. Secondly, I love that little moment where even though he's finally admitted that he needs help and comes to a meeting, it still takes him a few seconds to work up the nerve to sit down.

Lastly, all the "looks" between him and Danny. Was anyone else expecting them to hold hands at some point? Jeez, those two!

And then the follow up afterwards when he tells him he's gotten a sponsor, etc, and Danny just shakes his hand with this look like "I'm so proud of you, man."

Edited March 2, 2019 by Camille

[MarylandGirl]

22 hours ago, Camille said:

Escape is jumping around with the schedule again. Starting from today, it's on weekdays 6-8am (beginning with Season 1 AGAIN), and 6-9pm (continuing with what's been airing so far)

PopTV airs it Tuesday and Wednesday mornings (12--3am).

I'll need to see if I have PopTV. The other issue with Escape is that they don't always show the episode listed and air them in the wrong order. And I don't think they ever aired Hard Reset but had the stuff after it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Actually they do air them in order, but two different seasons are airing at two different times. It seems they stopped airing season four in the evenings and started season one again. But the afternoon airings are the season six. Episodes 10-13 didn’t air because the stupid channel wasn’t working.

[MarylandGirl]

57 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Actually they do air them in order, but two different seasons are airing at two different times. It seems they stopped airing season four in the evenings and started season one again. But the afternoon airings are the season six. Episodes 10-13 didn’t air because the stupid channel wasn’t working.

Hm, OK--maybe it's a problem with my onscreen cable guide then just listing the wrong episode titles. Turns out I do get Pop TV, so maybe can record some there, too. And, it looks like they're showing House as well!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well it looks like the synopsis for the rest of season six are going to be messed up.🙄 since the network was on the fritz last week, the last correct synopsis was for episode 16- “A Dollar and a Dream” about the lottery winner who wasn’t. Though the guide is giving descriptions for 17 and 18, the actual episodes are repeats of the CSI crossover and that other one of that guy who did cage fighting? The stupid network doesn’t even know when it fucked up. And I remember hating this season with its serialized plots like the girl who was stupid to think stealing wasn’t wrong and get herself kidnapped. The rape wasn’t her fault, but the other stuff, just 🙄🙄🙄🙄

And of course the missing episodes were of John screwing Viv again when it came to her task force and now John looks like an overweight bum with his shaved head.

[Dr.OO7]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

now John looks like an overweight bum with his shaved head.

Seriously. Even if you take away all his other issues, WTF did Samantha see in this guy as opposed to a cutie like Martin?

[GHScorpiosRule]

So stupid Escape decided to not air the last two episodes of season 6. This was a short season and only had 18 episodes. Season 7 premiere was today. I’m hoping that over the weekend or maybe this week, they’ll re-air 10-13, which didn’t air because their network was down last week!😒😒 why repeat the CSI crossover and the other one which I’ve forgotten? Now it’s going to bug me.

[Dr.OO7]

Escape is dancing around with the schedule AGAIN.

The latest:

Weekdays from 6-8AM (They're about a third of the way through Season 1 by now)

Weekdays from 11AM--2PM (They're about a third of the way through Season 7)

No doubt by next week it will be something completely different. 🙄

[MarylandGirl]

23 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So stupid Escape decided to not air the last two episodes of season 6. This was a short season and only had 18 episodes. Season 7 premiere was today. I’m hoping that over the weekend or maybe this week, they’ll re-air 10-13, which didn’t air because their network was down last week!😒😒 why repeat the CSI crossover and the other one which I’ve forgotten? Now it’s going to bug me.

Part of a couple episodes I DVRed this week just had a black screen for a few minutes--I guess that's Escape having more issues? And one ("Last Call") was during a rather pivotal scene, too, so I was kind of confused.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

Part of a couple episodes I DVRed this week just had a black screen for a few minutes--I guess that's Escape having more issues? And one ("Last Call") was during a rather pivotal scene, too, so I was kind of confused.

No. The season 7 episodes here all aired normally. When the network is down, we get the vertical rainbow bars.

Season 7 is lousy, and you can tell they were getting tired and lazy. Now the viewers see the missing people get kidnapped, assaulted, etc.😒😒

Jack is a poor shell of the awesome agent he was in seasons 1-4.

Bleagh.

[MarylandGirl]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No. The season 7 episodes here all aired normally. When the network is down, we get the vertical rainbow bars.

Season 7 is lousy, and you can tell they were getting tired and lazy. Now the viewers see the missing people get kidnapped, assaulted, etc.😒😒

Jack is a poor shell of the awesome agent he was in seasons 1-4.

Bleagh.

Weird, must have been some other problem for me then. Agreed re: season 7. I'm only partway through the rewatch, but it also seems like the missing people are overwhelmingly white and fairly privileged--which is also what happened on SVU before I stopped watching a year or two ago. And they seem to be relying too much on the "Oh, whoops, it was an accident." Also they agents seem to shoot a lot more people in the later seasons--I guess trying to increase the action to compete with other shows?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well, the 7th episode, “Live to Regret” about a foreclosure bank manager who learns she’s sterile, so decided to steal money for the child she gave up when she was 16, was on tonight. And 40 minutes in, the screen pixelated and then went dark for five minutes. So we missed why she thought stealing money was a good idea? And it wasn’t worth it because said child/son had been killed by a drunk driver.

And what is it with making Bill Smitrovich a scheming asshole? First it was in Nash Bridges, and now on this show! When for the first six seasons he wasn’t a bad asshole, and I was led to believe he was Jack’s friend. If not friend, then a good boss. But nooooo. He had to be the one to send Steven Weber’s bean counter to replace Jack, and then try to get Martin to be the new chief, because...reasons?  I’m sure it was explained why at the end of season six, when Jack is barely recovered from being shot and beat to shit.😒😒😒