Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Maherjunkie]

God help me I always think Gillian Booth sounds like Elmer Fudd when she says "room" in Dramma Giocoso".

[WendyCR72]

Never noticed. But in that episode, the "poor sweet mother" bit with Logan and the lady doc, while amusing - even without naming names! - seemed to break privacy issues all over the place. Lady doc had a big mouth.  :-P

[Maherjunkie]

I thought so too.  I think she wanted to do him.

[WendyCR72]

On 12/26/2016 at 10:05 PM, Maherjunkie said:

I thought so too.  I think she wanted to do him.

Well, she definitely seemed to warm to/be amused by Logan!

[Maherjunkie]

Ah what woman isn't...

[WendyCR72]

Wishing those that lurk and post here a Happy New Year! May 2017 be fabulous with lots of happiness. Stay safe tonight.

[Maherjunkie]

The only danger at the moment is Jo Gage.

[WendyCR72]

23 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

The only danger at the moment is Jo Gage.

Yeah. Hee. What an episode for WE to usher in the new year with, creepy times a billion. Said this before, but Madonna's baby daddy #1, Carlos Leon, actually did a decent job in that one (as the guy in the beginning who got dumped by the victim). He appeared 3 times, actually. S2, S6, and S7. All different roles.

[Maherjunkie]

And the mothership.  Not a bad actor.

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

And the mothership.  Not a bad actor.

Funny, I don't remember hm on the Mothership! Of course, that has a lot more episodes to remember! Do you remember any seasons/titles?

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Funny, I don't remember hm on the Mothership! Of course, that has a lot more episodes to remember! Do you remember any seasons/titles?

Most memorably IMHO he played Rafael, one of the brothers from "Couples" in Season 13. He was also in the SVU episode "Wildlife" which is memorable in a totally different way...

[Maherjunkie]

How so?  I don't remember which ones but I thought he always played a thug convincingly.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Most memorably IMHO he played Rafael, one of the brothers from "Couples" in Season 13. He was also in the SVU episode "Wildlife" which is memorable in a totally different way...

Oh, God. No wonder I blocked him out in "Wildlife"! Monkeys in basketballs?!

[WendyCR72]

Apparently, Kathryn Erbe appeared on the dead-show-walking, Conviction, a few weeks back. I don't watch that show, but good to know she's still popping up on some shows.

[Maherjunkie]

What exactly is the premise?

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

What exactly is the premise?

Basically, folks trying to clear the wrongly accused, but most of the characters are unlikable or something. (I've never watched this Conviction but watched the L&O-universe show of the same name in 2006.) Apparently, the ratings aren't good.

[WendyCR72]

WE is showing "Dramma Giocoso" again, and the blood on the victim looks so...fake. But that seems to be an issue for all such shows. In this day and age, no one knows how to simulate rust-colored (drying) blood? (I know, I sound so macabre. LOL!)

As an aside, who knew Rodgers would be such a huge opera fan?  :-) Mentioned this, but I love the little aside that Lennie took her to the opera. Although Briscoe didn't seem like the opera-loving type, either. Eh, maybe it was a favor to Rodgers.

[Maherjunkie]

Yeah, that always surprised me too.

[wknt3]

22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

As an aside, who knew Rodgers would be such a huge opera fan?  :-) Mentioned this, but I love the little aside that Lennie took her to the opera. Although Briscoe didn't seem like the opera-loving type, either. Eh, maybe it was a favor to Rodgers.

I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the opera Lennie was interested in. Although we do know that he likes musicals...

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the opera Lennie was interested in. Although we do know that he likes musicals...

Really? Lennie and Rodgers? Hmm... I don't know. But I think it would have been interesting to see them in play, so to speak. I never really understood the whole Ross/Rodgers...thing. Made even murkier by "Betrayed" and the whole Kathy Jarrell thing in the mix.

Still, as I said prior, CI seemed to like to give Rodgers a few extra crumbs ("Blasters" another example), so that was usually a plus.

[wknt3]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Really? Lennie and Rodgers? Hmm... I don't know. But I think it would have been interesting to see them in play, so to speak. I never really understood the whole Ross/Rodgers...thing. Made even murkier by "Betrayed" and the whole Kathy Jarrell thing in the mix.

Yeah Lennie pretty clearly had a thing for Rodgers. Until CI there was nothing onscreen to indicate that she found his interest anything more than amusing. She certainly did shoot him down viciously like she did Munch on SVU , whom she told that she wouldn't go to dinner with him as long as she could feed herself, but there was some flirting going on. There were a number of exchanges like when they found the body of the sorority girl.

Rodgers: Don't look at me. I didn't even learn how to apply lipstick until I was 25.
Briscoe: Well, it looks like you got the hang of it now.
Rodgers: Thank you, Detective.

And the one I really remember talking about a victim's tattoo :
Rodgers: Midlife crisis. Some guys get a sports car, some get a tattoo.
Lennie Briscoe: What did you get? (looking very intrigued)
Dr. Elizabeth Rodgers: 27-year-old boyfriend. (exaggerated miming of heartbreak)

And when he finally got a cellphone she was one of the first people he gave his number too. They were both very quippy characters and this was the show that did the whole McCoy/Kincaid relationship without ever putting anything definite on screen, but you could see his interest and that she was flattered by the attention. They pretty much did it all through facial expressions and line readings, but it was there.

[WendyCR72]

15 hours ago, wknt3 said:

And the one I really remember talking about a victim's tattoo :
Rodgers: Midlife crisis. Some guys get a sports car, some get a tattoo.
Lennie Briscoe: What did you get? (looking very intrigued)
Dr. Elizabeth Rodgers: 27-year-old boyfriend. (exaggerated miming of heartbreak)

I do vividly remember this, and I loved it. As I said, I personally didn't catch it, but hey...I wouldn't have been opposed. They were both snarky characters. Funny. I've always heard "opposites attract" but have also heard the contradictory "like attracts like". So maybe Rodgers/Briscoe were the latter.  :-)

[wknt3]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I do vividly remember this, and I loved it. As I said, I personally didn't catch it, but hey...I wouldn't have been opposed. They were both snarky characters. Funny. I've always heard "opposites attract" but have also heard the contradictory "like attracts like". So maybe Rodgers/Briscoe were the latter.  :-)

Personally I think Lennie's interest was definitely there and everything else was open to interpretation. She didn't shoot him down like she surely could have, but she didn't seem to to share his ardor. I think it's still wonderfully vague even with the line from "Dramma Giocoso". If you want to ship them you have all you need, and if you always saw it as more one-sided like I did that's still perfectly viable. Good job by the writers especially since inter-series continuity hasn't always been a strong point in the franchise.

[WendyCR72]

19 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Good job by the writers especially since inter-series continuity hasn't always been a strong point in the franchise.

Yeah, although Bobby did mention McCoy in "Lady's Man" and Branch/Lewin made appearances so...they tried, I suppose? I think the more obvious blunders were less overall franchise (although, as you said, it did have issues) than individual characterization within said franchise. As I mentioned before, Cragen had kids when on The Mothership. They were inexplicably zapped by SVU. And Bobby in S3 made a passing mention of his older brother being a "straight arrow" as their father was on Frank's case, but it clearly didn't match what came later. (I guess it can be rationalized that Dad drove Frank to what he would become, but still...murky.)

And Bobby had told Dr. Dysart in "See Me" that his mother started to hear voices when he was 7 and his mom was 32. Yet when Bobby visited his mom's grave in "Frame", the birth year on her gravestone said 1939, so, even with Bobby's retconned birth year in "Endgame" (as I once saw prop police ID cards on eBay where Goren's birth year matched VDO's) as 1961 (as Brady mentioned celebrating Kennedy's win with Frances in November 1960), when Bobby was 7 in 1968, Frances would have been 29. (Yeah, I think about these little mistakes too much, I know. But I get a kick out of spotting them, is all.) The timeline still wouldn't have worked with Bobby's original birth year, either, though, so...yeah. I always did get a kick out of the fact that, even before we met him, Frank was always said to be the older brother. As much as by three years per "Endgame", yet Tony Goldwyn is actually about a year younger than VDO.  :-)

I do think that the CI writers did a good job with "To The Bone" with the Logan/Olivet scene. It felt very old school, and their bond/complex relationship seemed to be represented well there.

So I guess it could have been better where the franchise was concerned with continuity. But it could have also been worse.

[Maherjunkie]

Ah, Logan and Olivet.  What might have been....

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

Ah, Logan and Olivet.  What might have been....

I was sort of surprised when it was intimated that they did indeed have a little "something" after Max died. But hey, as long as she wasn't his "official" shrink then, whatever! Good for them.

Based on the background pictures in "To The Bone", it looked like Liz had a family, etc., by then.

[WendyCR72]

Hey, @Maherjunkie, was it you that likes "Assassin"? It's on WE at 1:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. I recall Bella wore a pink suit as her brother was shot and got his blood on her (since it would make for good press to her). Makes me wonder if any of the writers were thinking of poor Jackie Kennedy and her pink suit at some point...

[Maherjunkie]

Yes, thanks.  I'd like to think those were here nieces and she was still available to Logan.

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, Maherjunkie said:

Yes, thanks.  I'd like to think those were here nieces and she was still available to Logan.

What were her niece's what? Idea to kill?

[Maherjunkie]

No, that they were Olivet's, and she had no husband, and could therefore be free to do Logan.

[WendyCR72]

On 2/4/2017 at 9:27 PM, Maherjunkie said:

No, that they were Olivet's, and she had no husband, and could therefore be free to do Logan.

Ah. Did Olivet mention nieces before? Funny how she was on the Mothership enough, but I barely recall any details about her private life. Was it ever discussed (beyond her rape storyline) that you remember?

I wouldn't have been opposed to Logan/Olivet as long as they aren't doctor/patient, but that CI scene just smacked of "very old friends" to me!

[Maherjunkie]

I remember her as a blank slate.  I thought you could argue she was crossing a line.  He needed a woman with a decent IQ.

[WendyCR72]

On 2/7/2017 at 6:44 PM, Maherjunkie said:

I remember her as a blank slate.  I thought you could argue she was crossing a line.  He needed a woman with a decent IQ.

Well, early on, I think a case could have been made for no relationship - when Logan was more cop than friend and Olivet was in official shrink mode. Like around the whole Max thing.

But in CI, even though Liz was kind of shrink-y, I think that was just two friends there. But maybe I'm wrong. Hee. In any case, I do think Logan/Olivet had a good vibe to them. Logan seemed...softer with her, you know? And she seemed to smooth out some of Mike's rougher edges.

Assuming you agree here. :-)

[WendyCR72]

Hmm...Channel Island, where Connie and his little groupie girls killed those boys; Broad Channel in S9. Channels everywhere in NY, it seems. In the latter, I still thought the actor playing Jackie [Nichols' nemesis] was even creepier in "Shibboleth" as the guy who killed women in their bras and panties as he tied their one leg.

Amazing how much the guy aged in just 5 seasons!

[WendyCR72]

With the blizzard - a real one - outside my window, the whimsical part of me was thinking of the failed 3-way event that was discussed in the SVU thread. Would have been fun to see how all 3 shows dealt with a blizzard in NY while trying to solve a crime.

Hey, if NBC could do sitcom crossovers in the '80s with a hurricane, it could have done this!

[wknt3]

On 3/14/2017 at 4:08 PM, WendyCR72 said:

With the blizzard - a real one - outside my window, the whimsical part of me was thinking of the failed 3-way event that was discussed in the SVU thread. Would have been fun to see how all 3 shows dealt with a blizzard in NY while trying to solve a crime.

Hey, if NBC could do sitcom crossovers in the '80s with a hurricane, it could have done this!

L&O: Briscoe grumbles about being called out in the middle of a blizzard during the opener and makes a quip. Later Briscoe and Green complain about it and Van Buren tells them to buy a pair of warm socks and shut up. The defense lawyer tries to use the blizzard as a defense and Serena wonders if maybe it really is a reason for leniency.
SVU: Munch and Fin make snarky comments about all the snow. Liv realizes that the scene was staged and the killer used the storm and snow removal efforts to hide forensic evidence and frame the initial suspect. Stabler pushes the perp into a snow bank.
CI: Goren explains the meteorology of blizzards to anyone who will listen. He uses a witness's description of the snow to determine that they are really the killer, but Carver insists that isn't probable cause. Later he realizes that they have a deep seated psychological trauma related to snow storms and uses it to elicit a confession.

Edited March 16, 2017 by wknt3
correcting autocorrect

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, wknt3 said:

L&O: Briscoe grumbles about being called out in the middle of a blizzard during the opener and makes a quip. Later Briscoe and Green complain about it and Van Bruen tells them to buy a pair of warm socks and shut up. The defense lawyer tries to use the blizzard as a defense and Serena wonders if maybe it really is a reason for leniency.
SVU: Munch and Fin make snarky comments about all the snow. Liv realizes that the scene was staged and the killer used the storm and snow removal efforts to hide forensic evidence and frame the initial suspect. Stabler pushes the perp into a snow bank.
CI: Goren explains the meteorology of blizzards to anyone who will listen. He uses a witnesses description of the snow to determine that they are really the killer, but Carver insists that isn't probable cause. Later he realizes that they have a deep seated psychological trauma related to snow storms and uses it to elicit a confession.

We have a winner here! And the CI part is so funny because I can totally see Goren dissecting the "anatomy of a blizzard", as it were! Too bad you couldn't write for the franchise, @wknt3.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 2/4/2017 at 4:39 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I was sort of surprised when it was intimated that they did indeed have a little "something" after Max died. But hey, as long as she wasn't his "official" shrink then, whatever! Good for them.

Based on the background pictures in "To The Bone", it looked like Liz had a family, etc., by then.

This is sort of an old post, but in one of the many post-Logan episodes on the Mothership where Olivet shows up to help with a case., Carolyn McCormick was pretty clearly wearing maternity clothes, and she has two kids with her husband. I can't remember the ep title to save my life and I'm at work so I can't look it up, but I have this image of her wearing a large-ish pink top of some kind. That's a ton of help, I'm sure. ;-)

[Maherjunkie]

On 2/9/2017 at 0:17 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Well, early on, I think a case could have been made for no relationship - when Logan was more cop than friend and Olivet was in official shrink mode. Like around the whole Max thing.

But in CI, even though Liz was kind of shrink-y, I think that was just two friends there. But maybe I'm wrong. Hee. In any case, I do think Logan/Olivet had a good vibe to them. Logan seemed...softer with her, you know? And she seemed to smooth out some of Mike's rougher edges.

Assuming you agree here. :-)

Yes, just saw this but that puts it beautifully.

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

This is sort of an old post, but in one of the many post-Logan episodes on the Mothership where Olivet shows up to help with a case., Carolyn McCormick was pretty clearly wearing maternity clothes, and she has two kids with her husband. I can't remember the ep title to save my life and I'm at work so I can't look it up, but I have this image of her wearing a large-ish pink top of some kind. That's a ton of help, I'm sure. ;-)

Thanks for that, @Cobalt Stargazer!  I love the Mothership, but there are a lot more episodes to try to remember there, so some seemed to slip by. I don't recall pregnant Olivet, but glad you did!  :-)  Now I'll have to keep a closer eye on Mothership episodes with her and see if I can spot that large pink top some time.  :-)

[WendyCR72]

Apparently, back when CI first began in 2001, a 3-way franchise event was allegedly being planned. However, due to the terrorist theme, it was scrapped for obvious reasons.

Someone in the SVU thread gave some details about it.

[WendyCR72]

The van that Bobby and Alex did their stakeout in "Silver Lining" looked more like a portable office/disco with the red neon lighting. Just saying.

[WendyCR72]

No clue why, but if you (collective you) watch the WE daytime episodes, it is not being shown this Tuesday. But it is being shown from 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday until 3:00 a.m. (!) Thursday, and the Thursday block from 10:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m. is still on.

Per the listings, the usual schedule (M, T, W, [been showing 3 hours in the morning/early afternoon that day, apparently], Th) resumes the following week.

[WendyCR72]

Just read that, as of now*, the show is returning to ION as of Sunday, July 9th, from 9:00 a.m. until 1:00 a.m., Monday, July 10th.

*I say "as of now" because ION's schedule seems hit and miss.

Edited June 26, 2017 by WendyCR72

[Lizzing]

Speaking of ION, has anyone else seen the promos with VDO?  I swear someone got him with a bit too much eyeliner on the bottom lashes & it just looks strange. 

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, Lizzing said:

Speaking of ION, has anyone else seen the promos with VDO?  I swear someone got him with a bit too much eyeliner on the bottom lashes & it just looks strange. 

 

Hee. Probably depends on who applies the makeup! (I read on another board about The Rockford Files recently being released on Blu-Ray and how., on the Blu-Ray, it looked like James Garner was wearing pancake makeup it was so thick. I guess the Blu made it pop.

[wknt3]

On 6/29/2017 at 2:56 AM, Lizzing said:

Speaking of ION, has anyone else seen the promos with VDO?  I swear someone got him with a bit too much eyeliner on the bottom lashes & it just looks strange. 

 

On 6/29/2017 at 3:16 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Hee. Probably depends on who applies the makeup! (I read on another board about The Rockford Files recently being released on Blu-Ray and how., on the Blu-Ray, it looked like James Garner was wearing pancake makeup it was so thick. I guess the Blu made it pop.

I haven't seen either, but I suspect these are two different things going on. With the Rockford Files it was never intended to be seen in high def on modern large TVs. So he was wearing heavy makeup to look good then that looks terrible now. It could be bad makeup, but seeing as ION seems to be run on as low a budget as possible it's just as likely that they weren't paying attention when they made the promos and whatever filters etc. they used made VDO look weird.

[Lizzing]

11 hours ago, wknt3 said:

It could be bad makeup, but seeing as ION seems to be run on as low a budget as possible it's just as likely that they weren't paying attention when they made the promos and whatever filters etc. they used made VDO look weird.

Maybe they cheaped out on the makeup artist.  The promo bumpers where VDO looks like he's wearing too much eyeline on the bottom lashes was filmed for ION, given that he looks a lot older than he did in S10.   The clips of the series in the promo look normal, it's him alone pontificating on "answering questions" that just looks weird.

[WendyCR72]

To be fair, VDO just turned 58. I haven't seen this promo, but then ION's promos are very hit and miss for any given show...

[Xeliou66]

The ION promos are always rather strange IMO. Always appear overdramatic and oddly filmed.