Season 10: Goodbye, Adam Schiff!

[Xeliou66]

46 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

It’s a really good episode. I do wish that they had tied it to Ellen Pompey’s first role in Law & Order when she hired her boyfriend to kill her mom over pretty much nothing and let her dad almost go to prison. At the end we see her arrested but not what happened after that. I think it could have been an interesting twist if we find out her dad had gotten her a good lawyer and she either got off or was sentenced to minimum time as a juvenile. She gets out her and the Dad move, change their names to get a fresh start. The Dad remarries and then this case is about her and her psycho boyfriend killing her stepsister. We find out that she’s the real instigator behind it all and is still just the same ruthless, shallow, greedy bitch she was as a teenager.

That would’ve been an interesting twist, but it’s doubtful that she could’ve gotten out that quickly - she would probably be tried as an adult for her role in her mother’s and brother’s deaths. But it would’ve been an interesting concept for an episode. 

[andromeda331]

I've only watched that episode once because the murderers freak me out. I'm glad they ended up going to jail. Also, it was pulled from a real case in Canada. How no one noticed they or the real life couple were psychopaths I don't know. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by andromeda331

[Xeliou66]

Season 10 is on Sundance today - I love this season, all 6 of the main cast are great and there are many stellar episodes.

Surrender Dorothy is one of my favorites from this season, it was on a little while ago - the psychiatrist who drove his daughter in law to suicide with his controlling, manipulative behavior was such a ghoul, and then he smugly thought he could beat the manslaughter charge by claiming he murdered her. What a piece of shit. Jack was awesome in this episode, I loved him telling the defense lawyer that he wasn’t going to back down, and his closing was awesome - laying out for the jury how it was clear Dorothy was driven to kill herself by the defendant’s manipulative behavior, and laying out all of the facts (the suicide note, the forensic evidence, the victim’s behavior, the defendant’s daughter’s testimony) to get the jury to see that it was suicide and the defendant drove her to it and was more concerned with protecting his reputation than anything else. The doc seemed stunned when they found him guilty, he really thought he could get away with his despicable behavior. 
I liked that his son/the victim’s husband immediately turned on his dad when he realized what had happened, I felt for him, he had been living under his dad’s thumb his whole life and his marriage was basically set up by his dad to be a test case for his “surrendered spouse” theory. The sister was kind of sympathetic as well, she shouldn’t have helped cover things up but she was screwed up by her dad’s manipulative behavior and I was glad she saw him for what he was and testified against him. 
Skoda was great as well, explaining how bad the doc’s behavior was and how he manipulated things, and helping the daughter see who her dad truly was. 
Lennie had some awesome quips in it, and the investigation was very good as usual for a Briscoe/Green episode. All in all a terrific episode. 

Narcosis is finishing up now, this is a pretty good one as well, a lot of twists and turns in it with the victim being one of the more unsympathetic ones in L&O’s history given her involvement in human trafficking and other illegal activity. I loved the rage Lennie and Ed had when they found the trafficked girls living in the storage container - Lennie rarely showed anger but he looked like he was about to punch the guy who was guarding the containers. Then it turns out the actual killer is the dad of the kid who was addicted to the porn site the victim was running. The judge shouldn’t have allowed the jury to convict on a lesser charge, I felt like the judge was letting her personal feelings get in the way of her judgment. She basically allowed a compromised verdict, just because the defendant was more sympathetic than the victim. The victim was a bad person and the defendant was somewhat sympathetic, but he still deserved to be convicted of murder. There was a lot crammed in to this episode because of all of the unsavory activities the victim was involved in, so it was kind of all over the place, but it’s a good episode.

High & Low is starting now, then Stiff and Vaya Con Dios, very good finish to season 10. The first 2 episodes of season 11 finish up tonight’s marathon. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Y'all Remember "Loco Parentis"? I'm fuzzy on whether the dad (Robert Clohesy) was indeed found guilty and sent to the slammer along with his murdering son, but life imitates art!

Just read that the parents of the kid who killed and injured classmates in the 2021 Oxford murders, both got 10-15 years each. The murdering son got life.

 

[buttersister]

Parents found guilty of manslaughter.
 

So not Jack’s depraved indifference murder. Someone at court mentioned that 10-15 was a lot at their age. More life/art.

[Xeliou66]

Sundown is an awesome episode, really strong case with good stuff for each character. I particularly love the scene at the DA’s office with Anita, Abbie, Skoda and ME Rodgers - it was very unique to have those 4 in a scene together. Interesting case about the old guy with Alzheimer’s who killed his wife when he discovered her affair - he was a nasty mean old asshole, I didn’t feel much sympathy for him - he didn’t kill because he had the disease, he would’ve attacked after discovering her affair whether he had Alzheimer’s or not. I liked how Skoda got him to show his true colors when he was questioning him. Jack’s final argument was spot on - he was sane when he murdered his wife, and it would be wrong to let him go just because they felt sorry for him, he was right that it the 8th Amendment didn’t apply because they weren’t inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on him, he would get the same treatment as everyone else. I was glad the judge didn’t dismiss the case. He had to be held accountable and he wasn’t legally insane - the DAs were right to work out a plea where he could live in a more humane place but he had to be punished for the murder. 
The con artist who was scamming women in support groups was an interesting suspect, and I liked how the investigation progressed until they discovered the husband did it, I liked Rodgers showing them the key clue of the ring impression. 
The guy stealing hospital food was a really funny plot point, and Rodgers “free javelins” line was great as well. It’s one of my favorite episodes.

Loco Parentis is good as well, it was interesting how Adam wanted to hold the dad criminally accountable for his son’s criminal acts. I think Adam was right, the dad was enabling his son’s violent acts, he knew his son was a bully and he encouraged it and bought his son illegal weapons, one of which he used to kill someone. I was glad his wife turned on him. Adam was funny when Jack said maybe he should try the case and Adam said “oh ho ho, do I have to do all the work around here?” just the way he said it was great. It was interesting to see Abbie do some of the questioning at trial. The defense attorney going after Lennie because of his daughter’s death was kind of a low blow, maybe the DAs shouldn’t have put Lennie on the stand, I guess they never considered the defense would bring that up. Regardless Lennie did good by replying he didn’t give his daughter drugs or teach her how to sell them. 

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Sundown is an awesome episode, really strong case with good stuff for each character. I particularly love the scene at the DA’s office with Anita, Abbie, Skoda and ME Rodgers - it was very unique to have those 4 in a scene together. Interesting case about the old guy with Alzheimer’s who killed his wife when he discovered her affair - he was a nasty mean old asshole, I didn’t feel much sympathy for him - he didn’t kill because he had the disease, he would’ve attacked after discovering her affair whether he had Alzheimer’s or not. I liked how Skoda got him to show his true colors when he was questioning him. Jack’s final argument was spot on - he was sane when he murdered his wife, and it would be wrong to let him go just because they felt sorry for him, he was right that it the 8th Amendment didn’t apply because they weren’t inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on him, he would get the same treatment as everyone else. I was glad the judge didn’t dismiss the case. He had to be held accountable and he wasn’t legally insane - the DAs were right to work out a plea where he could live in a more humane place but he had to be punished for the murder. 
The con artist who was scamming women in support groups was an interesting suspect, and I liked how the investigation progressed until they discovered the husband did it, I liked Rodgers showing them the key clue of the ring impression. 
The guy stealing hospital food was a really funny plot point, and Rodgers “free javelins” line was great as well. It’s one of my favorite episodes.

I agree the murderer a horrible person. He didn't care about his wife or anything else except how it affected him. Their daughter seemed to side completely with her father. Enabler. I felt bad for the wife. Skoda's question was good. I suspected he was an asshole despite his Alzhemier's it was great to see it confirmed.

Quote

 

Loco Parentis is good as well, it was interesting how Adam wanted to hold the dad criminally accountable for his son’s criminal acts. I think Adam was right, the dad was enabling his son’s violent acts, he knew his son was a bully and he encouraged it and bought his son illegal weapons, one of which he used to kill someone. I was glad his wife turned on him. Adam was funny when Jack said maybe he should try the case and Adam said “oh ho ho, do I have to do all the work around here?” just the way he said it was great. It was interesting to see Abbie do some of the questioning at trial. The defense attorney going after Lennie because of his daughter’s death was kind of a low blow, maybe the DAs shouldn’t have put Lennie on the stand, I guess they never considered the defense would bring that up. Regardless Lennie did good by replying he didn’t give his daughter drugs or teach her how to sell them. 

 

It was a low blow to question Lennie about his daughter. I remember Lennie wondering or thinking in one episode if his daughter inherit being addiction from him. He was an addicted to alcohol and her drugs. But I like his answer. No, he didn't give drugs to her or teach her how to sell them. Even though he didn't say it he did try to help her and wanted her to get clean.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree the murderer a horrible person. He didn't care about his wife or anything else except how it affected him. Their daughter seemed to side completely with her father. Enabler. I felt bad for the wife. Skoda's question was good. I suspected he was an asshole despite his Alzhemier's it was great to see it confirmed.

It was a low blow to question Lennie about his daughter. I remember Lennie wondering or thinking in one episode if his daughter inherit being addiction from him. He was an addicted to alcohol and her drugs. But I like his answer. No, he didn't give drugs to her or teach her how to sell them. Even though he didn't say it he did try to help her and wanted her to get clean.

Yeah the old guy from Sundown was a nasty person, he didn’t even feel remorse about killing his wife or go for help after attacking her. I didn’t get why his daughter so was attached to him. I liked how Skoda got him to show his true colors, Skoda was awesome. It’s a great episode - I liked the investigation of the different suspects before realizing the husband did it and the daughter was covering for him. The guy stealing hospital food was a funny subplot, I love the colorful red herring suspects like that.

Yeah it was a low blow to grill Lennie about his daughter, and I think if the DAs knew the defense would do it they would’ve put Green on the stand instead to avoid that line of questioning. Lennie handled it well though.

I love the cast lineup in season 10 - Briscoe/Green are my favorite detective pairing, Abbie was a good ADA and of course Jack, Anita and Adam are awesome. Season 10 was definitely L&O at its top form.

[Xeliou66]

Surrender Dorothy is a great episode, one of my favorites from season 10, good twists and an interesting plot - the defendant claiming he murdered the victim to try to avoid a manslaughter conviction for driving the deceased to suicide was wild. He was such a manipulative bastard and creep, I was glad his daughter turned on him. Jack’s disgust with him was great and his closing was very effective, laying out for the jury all of the evidence that proved it was suicide and how the defendant’s actions drove her to it - Graham Sr was a master manipulator and controlling creep, nice to see him go down and I liked the ending lines about how he underestimated the jury and thought he could manipulate them as well. 
I liked how Skoda consulted with the DAs about how Graham manipulated Dorothy and his disgust with Graham was good and I liked how he talked with Graham’s daughter. 
Lennie had some great lines, particularly his “take your own advice Doc, surrender with love” line and telling the Mets fan “you better hope your waiter is not a Yankees fan“. I love Briscoe/Green, their investigations are always great. 
Season 10 is an awesome season, this episode is probably in my top 5 of the season, really great plot. 

[andromeda331]

Blood Money is such a good and horrifying episode. The murder victim was a real bastard. As were his fellow insurance buddies. Sure, they felt bad but not bad enough to do anything about it. The insurance guy was stupid to take the stand. How he thought he could explain to the jury why he wasn't responsible for selling insurance to Holocaust victims I don't know. But it was great watching Jack tear apart all his arguments. It was interesting to see one of the insurance guys switch sides after listening to Jordan's testimony because had a son too. 

I also love the last episode Vaya Con Dios except the ending we never find out what the Supreme Court decided. Pantoya was a piece of work. A brutal murder who didn't deserve immunity or the respect of being a "senator". 

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Blood Money is such a good and horrifying episode. The murder victim was a real bastard. As were his fellow insurance buddies. Sure, they felt bad but not bad enough to do anything about it. The insurance guy was stupid to take the stand. How he thought he could explain to the jury why he wasn't responsible for selling insurance to Holocaust victims I don't know. But it was great watching Jack tear apart all his arguments. It was interesting to see one of the insurance guys switch sides after listening to Jordan's testimony because had a son too. 

I also love the last episode Vaya Con Dios except the ending we never find out what the Supreme Court decided. Pantoya was a piece of work. A brutal murder who didn't deserve immunity or the respect of being a "senator". 

Blood Money is a very good episode, the victim was an unsympathetic scumbag and it was a wild plot how his son shot him but the other guy who was hired to steal the book stabbed him too. Complex case and I liked how they charged the insurance company. The testimony of the elderly guy who survived the Nazi concentration camp and lost his family was chilling and memorable. Adam seemed to take more of an interest in this case than normal, you could tell it affected him and it was one of the few times his Jewish heritage was alluded to. Interesting that Adam went to work on Holocaust reparations in his retirement in the next season.

Vaya Con Dios is a great episode as well, and it was interesting how they left the ending open. Only time in the show’s history until episode 16 of the current season that they did that. It was Adam’s last appearance although it wasn’t known at the time, in the previous episode he mentioned he was thinking about retirement.

Season 10 has a lot of great episodes, what are your favorites from it?

[andromeda331]

Blood Money, Vaya Con Dios, Patsy, and Justice.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Blood Money, Vaya Con Dios, Patsy, and Justice.

Interesting. 
Justice is a great episode, it was nice to see Jamie again and it was an interesting and complex case and I liked how they were able to nail the perp. I hope that the publicity from the case was enough to end Judge Wolinsky’s career even if he couldn’t be held legally accountable for sending the innocent guy to prison.

Patsy is interesting in that the main characters were dead wrong about the case all the way until the last minute of the episode, it was only at the end that Jack and Abbie realized the comatose woman had likely killed her sister. I thought the DAs were being too stubborn about it, anyone crazy enough to fake an attack on themselves and wind up in a coma doing so just to frame someone else is crazy enough to kill their sister.

I think my favorite of the season might be Sundown, that’s a great episode with the investigation first into the con artist then realizing the dementia ridden husband did it - it was an interesting case and I liked how Skoda got the husband to show his true nasty self, he was a mean old guy. I also liked Jack’s argument at the end about how the guy was sane and rational when he killed his wife and had to be legally punished for it.

Other episodes I love from season 10 are High and Low, DNR, Surrender Dorothy, Trade This and Collision. 

[andromeda331]

Those are good episodes too. That's why I love Patsy for once the main characters were wrong. They did such a good job showing it looking like she was stalked by her dead sister's boyfriend and he was such a jerk that it really seemed possible. Then the slow reveal that she set the whole thing up. Doubt starts when she moved to NYC after he did and then asking the prostitute to get the condom for her. Then attacking herself to frame him. Damn. That's insane.

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Those are good episodes too. That's why I love Patsy for once the main characters were wrong. They did such a good job showing it looking like she was stalked by her dead sister's boyfriend and he was such a jerk that it really seemed possible. Then the slow reveal that she set the whole thing up. Doubt starts when she moved to NYC after he did and then asking the prostitute to get the condom for her. Then attacking herself to frame him. Damn. That's insane.

Yeah it’s a crazy episode, some wild twists, I just thought Jack and the other main characters were too stubborn about their belief that the boyfriend killed the sister, I mean anyone crazy enough to stage their own rape and acquire someone’s semen to frame them is definitely crazy enough to kill their sister, it seemed like they just ignored that. It was only at the end that they realized the defendant was almost certainly innocent. I liked the defense attorney Garnett in that episode, he was always a worthy adversary.

If I had to pick a top 5 of season 10 I would say it would be 

Sundown      
Justice      
Surrender Dorothy      
High and Low                  
DNR 

That’s probably my top 5, but it’s an excellent season so it’s hard to pick. I honestly think season 10 has the best cast in L&O history - Briscoe/Green are my favorite detective duo and Adam was still DA here and Abbie is one of my favorite ADAs and of course Jack and Anita are great. Plus a lot of great recurring characters were in this season - Skoda, Rodgers etc. It is a top 5 season of L&O for me, maybe top 3

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

That’s probably my top 5, but it’s an excellent season so it’s hard to pick. I honestly think season 10 has the best cast in L&O history - Briscoe/Green are my favorite detective duo and Adam was still DA here and Abbie is one of my favorite ADAs and of course Jack and Anita are great. Plus a lot of great recurring characters were in this season - Skoda, Rodgers etc. It is a top 5 season of L&O for me, maybe top 3

They had the best main characters for season 10. 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

They had the best main characters for season 10. 

Agreed completely - a close second character wise would be season 5, but I think season 10 was the best. 

[andromeda331]

23 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed completely - a close second character wise would be season 5, but I think season 10 was the best. 

I agree. 

[MediaZone4K]

I remember being pissed off that we didn't hear the verdict at the end of this

Apparently, (correct me if Im wrong)the ripped from the headlines Luigi Mangione episode is only the second mothership episode without a verdict reveal.

It felt like a very abrupt and unceremonious end for major character Adam Schiff. I know L&O doesn't do grand goodbyes such as when Briscoe left, but it would've been nice to have an acknowledgment.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, MediaZone4K said:

I remember being pissed off that we didn't hear the verdict at the end of this

Apparently, (correct me if Im wrong)the ripped from the headlines Luigi Mangione episode is only the second mothership episode without a verdict reveal.

It felt like a very abrupt and unceremonious end for major character Adam Schiff. I know L&O doesn't do grand goodbyes such as when Briscoe left, but it would've been nice to have an acknowledgment.

Yes Vaya Con Dios is the first of two L&O episodes that ends on an open note - we don’t learn which way the Supreme Court ruled. 
As for Adam’s departure, they addressed it in the season 11 premiere, they might not have known he was leaving at the time although he mentioned contemplating retirement in the previous episode, while it would’ve been nice to have an onscreen goodbye with Adam, they did a good job in addressing it in the next episode when Giuliani introduced Nora. And we even got an update years later when we heard Jack talking with Adam on the phone and found out Adam was in Africa doing humanitarian work - that was awesome! So I was fine with how Adam’s departure was handled. 

[MediaZone4K]

On 4/27/2025 at 12:16 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Yes Vaya Con Dios is the first of two L&O episodes that ends on an open note - we don’t learn which way the Supreme Court ruled. 
As for Adam’s departure, they addressed it in the season 11 premiere, they might not have known he was leaving at the time although he mentioned contemplating retirement in the previous episode, while it would’ve been nice to have an onscreen goodbye with Adam, they did a good job in addressing it in the next episode when Giuliani introduced Nora. And we even got an update years later when we heard Jack talking with Adam on the phone and found out Adam was in Africa doing humanitarian work - that was awesome! So I was fine with how Adam’s departure was handled. 

So Giuliani was on Law & Order!! 

Unlike now where they mayor is a character and not the real life mayor.

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, MediaZone4K said:

So Giuliani was on Law & Order!! 

Unlike now where they mayor is a character and not the real life mayor.

L&O has always alternated between using real and fictional politicians, they’ve had several real life politicians make cameos but they’ll also introduce fictional politicians when they need them for a storyline. Both Mayors Giuliani and Bloomberg appeared on L&O as themselves - Giuliani in the season 11 premiere and Bloomberg in the episodes Nowhere Man and Paradigm, and a couple of other real life politicians have popped up in the franchise, notably Joe Biden on SVU when he was VP, and Chuck Schumer made a cameo on CI. They’ve referenced all of the Presidents that have been in office since the show started in various episodes. But they’ve introduced a few fictional politicians as well - notably Governor Shalvoy in seasons 18-19, he was kind of a stand in for Spitzer and a couple of other scandal ridden politicians, and now they have the fictional Mayor Payne who has appeared 3 times, I’m curious as to whether he’ll pop up again and whether he’ll go down like Shalvoy eventually did. And they’ve had a handful of fictional city and state politicians over the years when they are needed for involvement in a case. 

[andromeda331]

So was his wife Donna Hanover, she had an acting career and appeared on Law and Order as Judge Deborah Burke. 

At the time I thought it was cool to see him and Bloomberg on Law and Order now it's the opposite reaction. I feel bad for Nora who was such a big fan of his it had to be hard with his later decisions. 

[wknt3]

On 4/28/2025 at 7:22 PM, MediaZone4K said:

So Giuliani was on Law & Order!! 

Unlike now where they mayor is a character and not the real life mayor.

They couldn't have the current mayor on. TV shows need to have believable characters...