S07.E12: Potential

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; Amanda, by far my favourite Potential, love her to bits, the way she talks is rather reminiscent of Dana Scully from the X-files. She comes just ahead of Vi who is also great (so nice to have Felicia on Dollhouse), they both remind me of season 1 Willow. Great stuff from Dawn too, fun training scenes and the final scene with Xander is too wonderful for words.

The Bad; Spike attacks the Potentials? What about his chip? Well I guess he doesn't hurt them?

Best line; Xander; (to Dawn) "You're not special. You're extraordinary" (how true!)

Women good/men bad; Andrew refers back to the female legacy of Eve. Actually we'll soon see

Spoiler

where the real legacy of the Slayer began and it's not too empowering for the girls in question.

Jeez!; Amanda wants to unleash the vamp on the marching band?

Kinky dinky; During the training session Buffy ends up straddling Spike and feeling him up beneath his shirt. The Potentials comment that 'That's hot' and ask if they're expected to make out with the vampires? They also wonder how Buffy knows that Spike's crypt is comfy and seem to be peeking at Xander whilst he's in the shower at the Summer's house. What a load of saucy minxes! Amanda thinks that a guy who picks on her is quite cute. A sadomasochistic fondness for bad boys who make her miserable? All the makings of a Slayer RIGHT THERE! She just needs to get tied up and slapped around a few times. Buffy obviously thinks the same as she draws a comparison between Amanda and her tormentor and her and Spike. Rhona says she likes the feel of wood in her hand (Joss gives 15 year old girls this kind of dialogue? Worse than Dawn's 'Meat party in my mouth' line). Andrew says he hate's his free will. Dawn may have injured 'something she'll need later in life' whilst climbing into the school. She considers Xander's army training sexy and get's a kiss from him at the end (awwwww!).

Captain Subtext; The obvious subtext here is that Dawn finally has a house full of girls of her age but they're all special because they're Potentials and she's not, Buffy is spending all her time with them and giving them her attention and she's excluded even though she's already killed a vampire and a demon. So close but so far. Dawn admires a girl in her gym class as a 'glamazon', interesting phrasing! She also seems to enjoy Amanda helping her through the window and considers being a sailor as she likes the water, well you know what all the nice girls like? Vi says the demon bar is like a gay bar, has she been to many? Clem once again resembles Buffy's gay best friend whilst Xander is referred to as the one who sees which will have greater significance later in the season. Buffy and Spike getting closer and closer.

Guantanamo Bay; Buffy and Spike lock the girls into a crypt with a vamp, awfully like the Cruciantenam? But 5 to one with weapons and Spike and her waiting just outside

Kills: Spike kills a Bringer as does Buffy. 1 vamp for Amanda and 1 vamp for Kennedy (although that's more of a group effort)

Buffy: 118 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot

Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human/1 god.

Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.

Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie

Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans

Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1 a demon, 2 humans

Anya: 1 vamp and 1 a demon

Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons

Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons+1 human

Buffybot; 2 vamps

Tara; 1 demon

Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire

Amanda; 1 vampire

Total number of scoobies: Add Amanda so 13. HOWEVER where is Chloe this week? (doesn't look good for her) Or Molly?

Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Chloe, Rhona, Amanda

What the fanficcers thought; No shortage of Dawn the Vampire Slayer fics out there. Also Dawn and Amanda are a pretty popular slashfic couple, try The Circle

Buffy and Dawn more than sisters? Anya comments that Dawn and Buffy share the same blood.

Questions and observations; Bloody long teaser, almost a mini-ep in itself. Rhona comments that the 'black chick always gets it first'. Actually one of the points of the Scream series was that black people were very seldom the victims (possibly because most slasher flicks are set in small, middle-class rural towns with an overwhelmingly white population). Buffy once again shows her mettle as a general, her training of the Potentials is masterful. She makes first reference to the big dessert at the end of the meal, believing in heaven and telling the Potentials to expect their big reward, very Christian. Dawn warns the Potentials to be careful with their crossbows hinting at Miss Kitty's fate. Love Dawn's little smile when Amanda says that people say Buffy is a high-functioning schizophrenic, again the Slayer an open secret. Dawn seems very innovative fighting the vamp and the Bringers, she's a regular MacGyver. Dawn seems to remember Oz and gives another little smile when Xander mentions him. Adore Amanda, Sarah Hagan is wonderful (was so proud of myself when I spotted her as one of Ally McBeals childhood friends in a flashback). You should check her out on IMDb, she's really blossomed, looks like Katy Perry now.

Marks out of 10; controversial I'm sure but I love Amanda, I love Dawn, I love the final scene and I love this ep so 10/10 from me.

[Halting Hex]

Eh, I'm not inspired to hit on any new points, and since you're doing copy + paste, why shouldn't I?  From 9/9/09 on TWoP: "

Quote

Amanda thinks that a guy who picks on her is quite cute. A sadomasochistic fondness for bad boys who make her miserable? All the makings of a Slayer RIGHT THERE! She just needs to get tied up and slapped around a few times. Buffy obviously thinks the same as she draws a comparison between Amanda and her tormentor and her and Spike.

I don't know if you're joking here, but the fact that one can even joke about this is why I hate the Buffy/Amanda scene, this season, and Spuffy and UPN in general. Remember the idea that "Buffy is a show about growing up"? Well, this is a journey I don't want to take. JMO.

Quote

Total number of scoobies: Add Amanda so 13. 

I wouldn't count the Potentials as Scoobies; they're essentially civilians the gang has to protect, no different from Callie or Gage. They're not part of the planning, not Buffy's emotional confidants (not that she has many of *those*). Tertiary characters, IMO.

22 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

HOWEVER where is …Molly?

With Buffy, Spike, Vi, Rona, and Kennedy for practically the entire ep. She's the one who's taking notes in the cemetery, for example. Which may prove the point about the Po's being unimportant, if you forgot her.

22 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Rhona comments that the 'black chick always gets it first'. Actually one of the points of the Scream series was that black people were very seldom the victims (possibly because most slasher flicks are set in small, middle-class rural towns with an overwhelmingly white population).

However, the black guy *does* traditionally die in war movies (from Jim Brown getting killed in The Dirty Dozen down to biracial Vin Diesel biting it early in Saving Private Ryan) and "we just became an army", so I think Rona's reference here has merit.

Spoiler

Even if she ultimately avoids feeding that particular cliche herself.

 

22 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Buffy once again shows her mettle as a general, her training of the Potentials is masterful.

Hey, sure Buffy hated that [the Cruciamentum] in S3, but she also was thrown by the locker-search in Gingerbread and now she pals around with the Coolest Principal Ever and reaps the fruit of a "routine" locker search in Help (and goes on to get the kid's cooperation by threatening to beat him up). If she can emulate Snyder, why not Quentin Travers, too? (Coming soon, Buffy sends out a hit squad to kill the Potentials who refused to become part of the Slayer army!  Adolffy, the Vampire Slayer, just the show I always wanted.)

22 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

She makes first reference to the big dessert at the end of the meal, believing in heaven and telling the Potentials to expect their big reward, very Christian.

There's no reference to Heeeeeeeaven and Buffy's tone is sarcastic, simply pointing out that "everything dies, baby, that's a fact" (to quote the Boss). She's not saying death is good, just that the Potentials shouldn't be afraid of it. I see not a single imputation of Christianity in this scene.

Which, thank "God". Because if I thought that the show was trying to force organized religion on us, I would probably break my TV, Kirshner, Joss, or all of the above.

JMO. "

And about Amanda

Spoiler

(from discussion of your LJWTM review)

" Has Sarah Hagan had skull-reduction surgery so that the shape of her head no longer resembles the Cat in the Hat's hat? Because I remember her as the most long-faced girl I've ever seen. Off to Google Images to find out…

ETA: Eh, she's tweezed her eyebrows and gotten better hair. Still looks like Morticia Addams's basketball-playing cousin to me. JMO. "

Sorry, SH.  But you've never caught my eye so much, I'm afraid.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

2 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Eh, I'm not inspired to hit on any new points, and since you're doing copy + paste, why shouldn't I?  From 9/9/09 on TWoP: "

I don't know if you're joking here, but the fact that one can even joke about this is why I hate the Buffy/Amanda scene, this season, and Spuffy and UPN in general. Remember the idea that "Buffy is a show about growing up"? Well, this is a journey I don't want to take. JMO.

I wouldn't count the Potentials as Scoobies; they're essentially civilians the gang has to protect, no different from Callie or Gage. They're not part of the planning, not Buffy's emotional confidants (not that she has many of *those*). Tertiary characters, IMO.

With Buffy, Spike, Vi, Rona, and Kennedy for practically the entire ep. She's the one who's taking notes in the cemetery, for example. Which may prove the point about the Po's being unimportant, if you forgot her.

However, the black guy *does* traditionally die in war movies (from Jim Brown getting killed in The Dirty Dozen down to biracial Vin Diesel biting it early in Saving Private Ryan) and "we just became an army", so I think Rona's reference here has merit.

  Hide contents

Even if she ultimately avoids feeding that particular cliche herself.

 

Hey, sure Buffy hated that [the Cruciamentum] in S3, but she also was thrown by the locker-search in Gingerbread and now she pals around with the Coolest Principal Ever and reaps the fruit of a "routine" locker search in Help (and goes on to get the kid's cooperation by threatening to beat him up). If she can emulate Snyder, why not Quentin Travers, too? (Coming soon, Buffy sends out a hit squad to kill the Potentials who refused to become part of the Slayer army!  Adolffy, the Vampire Slayer, just the show I always wanted.)

There's no reference to Heeeeeeeaven and Buffy's tone is sarcastic, simply pointing out that "everything dies, baby, that's a fact" (to quote the Boss). She's not saying death is good, just that the Potentials shouldn't be afraid of it. I see not a single imputation of Christianity in this scene.

Which, thank "God". Because if I thought that the show was trying to force organized religion on us, I would probably break my TV, Kirshner, Joss, or all of the above.

JMO. "

And about Amanda

  Hide contents

(from discussion of your LJWTM review)

" Has Sarah Hagan had skull-reduction surgery so that the shape of her head no longer resembles the Cat in the Hat's hat? Because I remember her as the most long-faced girl I've ever seen. Off to Google Images to find out…

ETA: Eh, she's tweezed her eyebrows and gotten better hair. Still looks like Morticia Addams's basketball-playing cousin to me. JMO. "

Sorry, SH.  But you've never caught my eye so much, I'm afraid.

 

I think the Potentials are associate members of the Scoobs, like Tara, CC and Anya in some early eps or when they're estranged. It's true Buffy is now showing some authoritarian behaviour but I guess that's what happens when you're in charge? I never got any sarcasm from Buffy in that speech, after all, she'd been there.

Frankly Vin Disel was probably lucky to make it off the beach! (sad fact, in real life he wouldn't have been allowed in the Rangers as the army was segregated). Also, Nathan Fillon is in the film as the 'wrong' Private Ryan so link it to Buffy in one. As for the Dirty Dozen they actually lose one of the team in the parachute jump (apparently the actor wanted more money so they wrote him out) so Jim Brown doesn't get it first. Also Ernest Borgnine is in Airwolf with Ian Abercrombie so in 2.

Sacrilege, SH is BEAUTIFUL, hence why so many used to ship Damanda, myself included.

 
 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

It's true Buffy is now showing some authoritarian behaviour but I guess that's what happens when you're in charge?

For a supposed "rebel" with an "anti-establishment" attitude it was a) strange and b) OOC somehow for Buffy to emulate late Principal Snyder. At least we can understand and get a totally new perspective on people in charge (like Snyder) from now on. And, lest we forget, the Stupid Little Troll was officially appointed as the Sunnydale High's new Principal, while Buffy's so-called "leadership" was largely due to consensus among close friends and fellow fighters (and thus wasn't forced upon them by some higher authority). Blondie had to keep that in mind IMO. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Jack Shaftoe]

The only thing I remember from this episode is Xander's dumb speech and only because people just won't stop citing as an example of how much he had "matured". To me it's absolutely ridiculous and make me wonder if the geniuses in charge even remembered the previous seasons of their own show. Xander is jealous of Oz's superpowers? Since when? He was vastly more useful than Oz ever was, and Oz's superpowers were regarded by everyone as a liability for good reason. He also claims Anya ("a demon" refers to her, I guess) being more powerful than him never mind she didn't have any powers when she actually bothered helping Buffy. Last but not least, Willow's powers didn't exactly bring her happiness, did they, so what the hell Xander talking about? Never step in the spotlight? Buddy, you have saved Buffy's life more times than all her superpowered friends and boyfriends combined or at least something close to that. What a silly retcon.

Quote

Buffy once again shows her mettle as a general, her training of the Potentials is masterful.

Yes, they will be really useful from now on thanks to this masterful training.

Spoiler

Or not.

[lembergwatcher]

15 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Never step in the spotlight? Buddy, you have saved Buffy's life more times than all her superpowered friends and boyfriends combined or at least something close to that.

True. Though he rarely got the credit he deserved and everyone take him for granted. And since the Monks of Mindfuck messed with the Scoob's minds two years earlier we don't know for sure whether Xander actually remembers his own achievements. What if Xander thinks it was, say, Dawn who gave Buffy CPR in Prophecy Girl or confronted Angelus in Killed by Death? I doubt the "geniuses in charge" remembered anything from the previous seasons but I also do know the main characters' memories were altered in order to introduce Key!Dawn. 

[Halting Hex]

4 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

we don't know for sure whether Xander actually remembers his own achievements.

Well, we know he remembers at least one of them…and hasn't been shy about mentioning it.  From So Little Time, So Many Contrivances: 

Quote

BUFFY: We've heard the crayon speech a lot. I mean, it's great, of course... 

XANDER:  I saved the world with talking! From my mouth. My mouth saved the world. 

So even within the DawnVerse itself, even if you think the MonkFuckery has wiped the memory of Prophecy Girl from Xander's mind (although technically it was his lungs saving the world then, not his mouth) that "never step into the spotlight" crap is just crap.  The exact same Dawn Summers he's telling this "I'm a silent hero" stuff to was visibly bored by his droning on about his yellow-crayon heroics, just nine episodes previously.  Sheesh.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

20 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

For a supposed "rebel" with an "anti-establishment" attitude it was a) strange and b) OOC somehow for Buffy to emulate late Principal Snyder. At least we can understand and get a totally new perspective on people in charge (like Snyder) from now on. And, lest we forget, the Stupid Little Troll was officially appointed as the Sunnydale High's new Principal, while Buffy's so-called "leadership" was largely due to consensus among close friends and fellow fighters (and thus wasn't forced upon them by some higher authority). Blondie had to keep that in mind IMO. 

Buffy was the girl in charge but her training had an urgent purpose and it was measured and realistic, not the meaningless ritual of the council or pedantic tyranny of Snyder.  

20 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

The only thing I remember from this episode is Xander's dumb speech and only because people just won't stop citing as an example of how much he had "matured". To me it's absolutely ridiculous and make me wonder if the geniuses in charge even remembered the previous seasons of their own show. Xander is jealous of Oz's superpowers? Since when? He was vastly more useful than Oz ever was, and Oz's superpowers were regarded by everyone as a liability for good reason. He also claims Anya ("a demon" refers to her, I guess) being more powerful than him never mind she didn't have any powers when she actually bothered helping Buffy. Last but not least, Willow's powers didn't exactly bring her happiness, did they, so what the hell Xander talking about? Never step in the spotlight? Buddy, you have saved Buffy's life more times than all her superpowered friends and boyfriends combined or at least something close to that. What a silly retcon.

Yes, they will be really useful from now on thanks to this masterful training.

  Hide contents

Or not.

I LOVE Xander's speech, Oz's lycanthropy may not be much use to the Scoobs (Lover's Walk aside) but it did make him special. This moment between Dawn and Xander makes me smile and tear up at the same time. 

Yes it will as I'll point out in later eps but remember, any one of these girls might have to step up at any time. 

15 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Well, we know he remembers at least one of them…and hasn't been shy about mentioning it.  From So Little Time, So Many Contrivances: 

So even within the DawnVerse itself, even if you think the MonkFuckery has wiped the memory of Prophecy Girl from Xander's mind (although technically it was his lungs saving the world then, not his mouth) that "never step into the spotlight" crap is just crap.  The exact same Dawn Summers he's telling this "I'm a silent hero" stuff to was visibly bored by his droning on about his yellow-crayon heroics, just nine episodes previously.  Sheesh.

But he only gives this speech once and it is SUCH a winner. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Oz's lycanthropy may not be much use to the Scoobs (Lover's Walk aside) but it did make him special.

Only in the sense of "special needs" which can ruin one's life, though.

Quote

Yes it will as I'll point out in later eps but remember, any one of these girls might have to step up at any time. 

Or it could be

Spoiler

one of the thousands of other Potentials that Joss pulled out of his ass in Chosen.

[illdoc]

11 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Yes it will as I'll point out in later eps but remember, any one of these girls might have to step up at any time.

There is a book that came out a couple of years before Season 7, the plot of which is Spike & Dru try to kill off potentials (in WW II) for a demon. At one point, all the potentials gather in the Watchers Council building. The demon (who has given S&D orders to not kill the current Slayer) attacks them. Unfortunately, S&D disobey and Dru kills the Slayer. As a result, we have scenes of a potential saying "It's me! I'm the new Slayer", getting killed, then another potential saying "Now it's me!", etc. Again, this book came out a couple of years before Season 7. So much for "originality".

[Halting Hex]

That's probably Pretty Maids All in a Row by Nancy Holder.  I haven't read it, but people discussed the similarity of the plot while S7 was airing.

[Joe Hellandback]

17 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

That's probably Pretty Maids All in a Row by Nancy Holder.  I haven't read it, but people discussed the similarity of the plot while S7 was airing.

I never really got into the Buffy books although they were very successful, over 60 published. I remember reading 'Oz into the Wild' which I got free with Buffy magazine but gave up halfway through. 

[lembergwatcher]

On 17.11.2018 at 7:36 PM, Halting Hex said:

Well, we know he remembers at least one of them…and hasn't been shy about mentioning it.

Of course, he hasn't been shy about mentioning the yellow crayon scene. Why should he? Since everyone else acted like nothing happened, someone had to remind about the whole deal at least once. Though Willow's attempt to destroy the world was mentioned several times before, any references to Xander's role in preventing the Apocalypse were always omitted AFAIK.  

Edited November 20, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

7 minutes ago, lembergwatcher said:

Of course, [Xander] hasn't been shy about mentioning the yellow crayon scene. Why should he [be]?

I never said he had to be so; I simply noted that this contradicts your theory that Xander doesn't remember having ever saved the world, his possibly-altered memories of Prophecy Girl/Innocence/The Zeppo aside.

[lembergwatcher]

Xander's problem is either (possibly) altered memories or his low self-esteem. Since saving his friends in those episodes you mentioned presumably didn't improve Xander's self-confidence, how is "yellow crayon speech" supposed to do it? 

[Joe Hellandback]

4 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Xander's problem is either (possibly) altered memories or his low self-esteem. Since saving his friends in those episodes you mentioned presumably didn't improve Xander's self-confidence, how is "yellow crayon speech" supposed to do it? 

It did, he saved the world but like most things it was actually a group effort, especially with Giles. I should also add I did read the novelization of s7 which was ok, I liked the bit in Him where we hear Buffy's thought processes when screwing Dawn over. 

[lembergwatcher]

In the span of a few years we went from Buffy being the One Girl in all the world, the one with the super powers, unique in so many ways to... Xander being the One Guy in the gang, the one with no super powers or supernatural heritage, and thus unique in his own way. Even though Xander's speech might sound dumb when it comes to his significance for the cause, he's indeed right regarding the lack of both special abilities and mystical roots. He's not a Slayer, he sucks at magic, he wasn't a demon for over thousands of years and he sure as hell wasn't created by the bunch of reckless monks. The guy who fixes the windows, right. Someone completely different. I guess it had to be his show from then on.

I mean, back in 1997 Buffy was the only one in many regards and that was the beauty of it. As of 2003 Buffy is just one of the super-powered. Willow is stronger than her in many ways, Dawn exists solely due to the interference of the mystical forces, even Giles and Andrew aren't your average Joes. And there's an army of the potentially powerful warrior girls waiting at the door... So what is so unique about Buffy, what places her above the rest in the realities of 2003? Only the fact that she's been slaying for far too long?..  Xander is different, nohow. Although I do hate the idea of "the everyman among the superpowerful".

What seems to be pulled out of the writer's ass is this:

Quote

I see more than anybody realizes because nobody's watching me.

Since when does Xander see anything if portraying him as either superficial or oblivious used to be the "party line" for several consecutive seasons?

Edited December 20, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

Quote

I see more than anybody realizes because nobody's watching me.

Well, yes, if you're entirely unobserved, then nobody will realize that you're seeing anything, at all.  You could spend 98% of your time working on the crossword puzzle and the remaining 2% checking out Andrew's ass, and that would still qualify as "see[ng] more than anybody realizes", under those parameters.

[lembergwatcher]

We offer you another edition of Dumbest Lines from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Quote

XANDER
You thought you were all special. Miss Sunnydale 2003. And the minute you found out you weren't, you handed the crown to Amanda without a moment's pause. You gave her your power.

The crown? Oh really? I'm not sure we can talk about some imaginary "crown" here. Rather the one way ticket to early death 

Spoiler

which turned out to be literally true in Amanda's case.

Giving another person an "opportunity" to, you know, die a premature death (in your stead), what could be more altruistic than that?

Spoiler

They were probably trying to "test the water" regarding the upcoming X/D relationship, but they failed to let Xander express his adoration for Dawn (yuck!) in a less clumsy fashion.

[Joe Hellandback]

18 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

We offer you another edition of Dumbest Lines from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

The crown? Oh really? I'm not sure we can talk about some imaginary "crown" here. Rather the one way ticket to early death 

  Hide contents

which turned out to be literally true in Amanda's case.

Giving another person an "opportunity" to, you know, die a premature death (in your stead), what could be more altruistic than that?

  Hide contents

They were probably trying to "test the water" regarding the upcoming X/D relationship, but they failed to let Xander express his adoration for Dawn (yuck!) in a less clumsy fashion.

True but she gets to die a superhero. All of the Scoobs essentially accept they live on borrowed time although Buffy regards Dawn as the exception as

Spoiler

the events of the penultimate ep show. 

[lembergwatcher]

I just "love" the way the geniuses running the show cannot decide whether the main story line has to be about the potentials (i.e. preserving the Slayer line) or saving Private Spike. First, there is Showtime:

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Spike's running out of time.

and then Potential:

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So when I kicked its ass, the whole Firsty circus decided to back off for a while. Good news? Means we probably don't have to worry about it pulling Spike's strings for a while

Buffy's obsession with Spike apparently has reached such a level she doesn't consider it necessary to hide that fact from the girls - the ones that have no immortality or superpowers and who stared death right in the face in the previous episode. Shouldn't the SiTs, their safety and survival, be General Buffy's top concern at the moment? Because, they happen to be Buffy's sisters slayers and the world relies on them, not some blonde vampire, and so on and so forth... Besides, the "baby Slayers" have much lesser chance to stand their ground against the season's Big Bad than Buffy's immortal lover. Why not tell the girls something like this:

Quote

So when I kicked its ass, the whole Firsty circus decided to back off for a while. Good news? Means we probably don't have to worry about his eyeless cronies coming for ya, ladies, at least for a while.

Of course, we won't hear any of that

Spoiler

in the course of the season.

Because from now on Spike is supposed to be everyone's center of the universe for some totally trivial reasons. Even though, despite his fans' numerous claims, we have zero proofs of Spike's realibility as an ally or his extraordinary fighting skills either before the events of S.07E.12

Spoiler

or after them.

Therefore I can see no reasons why Buffy's monologue cannot evolve into some sort of "dialogue".

Quote

BUFFY: Good news? Means we probably don't have to worry about it pulling Spike's strings for a while...

ME (as Molly, Kennedy, Rona, Vi and Dawn simultaneosly): Who gives a fuck??

Unlike many in the fandom, I do like the SiTs. Maybe their introduction wasn't that necessary in the Spike-centric world of the final season and they didn't contribute that much to the plot, but

Spoiler

I'd rather watch some Amanda/Molly/Vi/Rona/Kennedy/Chloe-centric ep instead of garbage like Storyteller and Lies My Parents Told Me.

Problem is the writers didn't really know what to do about them all in the long run. The sad thing is that the potentials exist solely to serve Buffy's growing megalomania and strengthen Buffy's fanboys and Whedonites' vision of her as some sort of "natural born leader", the General commanding the "Slayer Army". That's it. Buffy doesn't give a rat's ass about her "sister slayers" and so do most fans.

Spoiler

That's why the tragic deaths of very young girls who haven't even lived long enough and probably never made love or even kissed are dismissed as collateral damage.

They are here not because they are really important in any way, shape or form, not because their lives are worth saving and they can really contribute to the fight, but because their presence makes Bitchy (and her current obsession) look "good" and all the more important. 

[catherinejane]

the thing i find odd is the lack of reference to Faith here. Its been acknolegded earlier in the season to the potentials that she exists.

But no one seems to have asked why she can't help (as she is in prison right now)

and the fact that if buffy dies NO ONE GETS CALLED!!!!!!!!! Its faith who needs to die to call the next one up.

 

[lembergwatcher]

Yes, there is reference to Faith two episodes earlier, in Bring On the Night. 

Either writers decided that one reference is enough or they've simply become too lazy and incompetent to care. 

Or maybe Buffy forgot about her sister Slayer due to lack of sleep and everything...  

 

[Halting Hex]

I suppose the SITs could just be ill-informed (Giles probably didn't publicize their adventures with Faith so much) and Buffy's just fibbing to keep the girls focused.

Be a bit of a disappointment if Buffy dies and nothing happens, though.

Quote

KENNEDY:  Well, that was a waste of time.  Okay, the Gulfstream is leaving for Martha's Vineyard in an hour…can I drop any of you along the way?

 

[Halting Hex]

On 3/12/2019 at 6:41 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Quote

BUFFY: Good news? Means we probably don't have to worry about it pulling Spike's strings for a while...

ME (as Molly, Kennedy, Rona, Vi and Dawn simultaneosly): Who gives a fuck??

 

Well, while it's understandable to lack empathy for Spike's being manipulated against his will, Buffy is probably not solely referring to Cheekbones's emotional state.  Since the last thing Spike did while being controlled was to attack one of them (granted, only Andrew, but even so), it's reasonable that the SiTs would be concerned about his doing that again, and Buffy is showing sense in reassuring them.

Where she's showing less sense is by assuming a temporary situation ("back off for a while") is going to give them advance notice if things should change.  Logically, Spike will remain a danger until a better solution is found.

(Even Spike can see this; it's why he continues to chain himself up.)

But that's not say that this isn't an issue.  Spike's fee-fees don't enter into it.

[Halting Hex]

On 3/12/2019 at 6:41 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Problem is the writers didn't really know what to do about them all [the SITs] in the long run.

More specifically, the problem is that there are too many of them.  Three would be just fine (studious Vi, skeptical Rona, cocky Kennedy, for example).  But "we just became an army" requires too many speaking parts.  And I'm sure the staff thought that, since the First wants them all dead, they could get a cheap hit by killing one of them every so often, but honestly, that card is played by now.  So having six actors (assuming we ever find where Chloe went to) occupying what should be at most three slots is just clogging the story.

And we've enough damn problems with that already.  Andrew is a complete waste of space, Anya's only still here because of her contract, and the writers don't even know what to do with Spike.

Even taking the most reductionist view possible, you can justify Buffy (heroine), Xander (comedy), Willow (magic) and Dawn (damsel) having a place on the show.  Giles has enough character history (and can facilitate the exposition) to be used when possible, and there's clearly history and story possibilities for Spike.  But that's 5+ slots already; the most heroes this show has ever carried was 9 and that wasn't sustainable.  Three SiTs should be the limit, and we're at double that, already.

I mean, it's not even too effective dramatically.  The First wants to wipe out the Slayer line?  So say the Bringers kill Kennedy.  Gee, that means there's only Molly, Amanda, Chloe, Rona and Vi left to go. (Plus any others Giles hasn't pulled out of his ass found yet.). Wake me when I need to worry.  Yawn.

[moonshine71]

So many wtf's about this episode. 

How exactly would being a potential be such a big change to Dawn's life. She'll be surrounded by the paranormal and her life wall be in frequent danger? Cause that never happens... 

She is at some risk to inherit a short lifespan IF... Buffy dies? A lot to unpack here. So do the scoobies believe that Buffy's death will trigger another slayer? Did they forget that she just died a little over a year ago for three months, and no other slayer was called? Or, are they under the impression that there was one called that's out there somewhere(it did take them a while to meet Kendra)? If that's the case, why aren't they looking for this third slayer, seems like they could be helpful? I guess it makes sense that the council wouldn't gave bothered to give them any insight in this, they didn't feel the need to give a heads up to Buffy, Giles, Kendra, or Kendra's watcher about the existence if two slayers, because... some reason. But it seems like something Giles would have the intuition to look into, especially once he's forced to travel the globe gathering up potentials. "Hey, witchy coven friends, there wouldn't happen to be a third slayer out there, would there?"

And back to Buffy's death, if they DO believe if will trigger another slayer, Dawn wasn't called when that happened, so why the panic as if she's the odds on favorite now? Sure, the talent pool has been drained a little by the bringers, but not that much. 

[Halting Hex]

I posit the idea is that once Dawn is a candidate, she's bound to be called eventually.  And then it's not merely run-of the-mill mortal danger, but Certain Death.  (Recall, Big Sis is on life #3 at this point.  That's not what happens, generally speaking.)

Of course, this all falls to the ground if there are plenty of Potentials who never get the Call.  We only recently had Kennedy say she thought she was too old (at 19), so who's to say Dawn couldn't dodge the job, too?

That said, the Monks did ensure that the gang acts over-protectively about Precious Dawnie, so perhaps this is only that spell doing its thing.  And, face it, the Summers girls have never been shy about their ideas of their own importance, so that may well have rubbed off on those around them.