S05.E06: The Icicle Cometh

[tvduser93]

Explanation: 

'Simple dna' Caitlin would have lead to als route.

'Cryo-dna' Caitlin would have lead to ice powered malignancy route. (Like her father. Dual personality right here just means "accessing powers mode" and "not accessing powers mode")

Dark matter affected 'meta-dna' Caitlin would lead to ice powered stabilized route. (Current state. Dual personality right here just means "killer frost" and "medicine woman")

Season 3 team ( = Barry and Cisco) rejects "killer frost" side. 
Season 4 team monitors "killer frost" side.
Season 5 team co-operates with "killer frost" side.
Hence her season arcs.

Edited November 26, 2018 by tvduser93
Grammar

[Kate45]

15 hours ago, tvduser93 said:

Explanation: 

'Simple dna' Caitlin would have lead to als route.

'Cryo-dna' Caitlin would have lead to ice powered malignancy route. (Like her father. Dual personality right here just means "accessing powers mode" and "not accessing powers mode")

Dark matter affected 'meta-dna' Caitlin would lead to ice powered stabilized route. (Current state. Dual personality right here just means "killer frost" and "medicine woman")

Season 3 team ( = Barry and Cisco) rejects "killer frost". 
Season 4 team monitors "killer frost".
Season 5 team co-operates with "killer frost".
Hence her season arcs.

This isn’t actually true. The show has already shown us that Caitlin had these powers before dark matter was released into the atmosphere. Even if we say the powers had to do with the PAE, why did it happen YEARS later? The altered FP timeline had changes, but the timing of the PAE seems to be about the same, so that’s out as a possibility. 

All of the metas on the team have been shown to “access powers” and “not access powers” and not gain a different personality in the process. 

The issue is that the show wants to have its cake and eat it, too. They are essentially telling us that Caitlin with powers isn’t interesting enough, so they give us this strange hybrid character to try and make it more interesting. Even if it changes the basis of powers on this show to make it happen (ex: your powers don’t change who you are, it just makes you more of who you are!). 

For the record, I have no problems with the show creating these theoretical frameworks. I just want them to create the rules of the framework at the start of the storyline to make it consistent in the season itself. 

Also, in season 3, despite Killer Frost trying to kill multiple members of team flash, they never rejected her. She left willlingly each time on her own accord, and every time they accepted her back. When she didn’t want the powers, the team helped her to suppress the powers. The only wish they didn’t grant was allowing Caitlin to die in 3x18. In season 4, they didn’t monitor Killer Frost, they welcomed and befriended her which never made a lick of sense to me. While we didn’t see much of it, it is clear that at least Cisco, Ralph, and Harry viewed Killer Frost as a friend and hung out with her. It was the basis of the plot for Caitlin not feeling good enough without Killer Frost. When she lost Killer Frost, they rallied around Caitlin to help her get Killer Frost back.

[tvduser93]

Flashpoint for Caitlin just means that her 'cryo-dna' has transformed/manifested into 'meta-dna' earlier than it would have in that other timeline.

 

Just because characters want there to be a true dual personality case (like firestorm was) for their own reasons/justifications, doesn't mean one really exists in her case.

Edited November 26, 2018 by tvduser93
Grammar

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Kate45 said:

The issue is that the show wants to have its cake and eat it, too. They are essentially telling us that Caitlin with powers isn’t interesting enough, so they give us this strange hybrid character to try and make it more interesting. Even if it changes the basis of powers on this show to make it happen (ex: your powers don’t change who you are, it just makes you more of who you are!). 

It's the wanting it both ways that frustrates me. But the thing is, I think they could have done both things (have sassy, supervillain KF, AND team member CS), just not at the same time like they've been trying for the past 2 seasons. First, they'd have to commit to Caitlin giving in to the 'dark side' for a while* and go full villain; then start her redemption arc and work her way back to being a part of the team. Or they could have done more with Caitlin struggling with this dark side of herself, instead of the switch to her being friendly, and missing this (now) other person that has assaulted the team and been the enforcer for a couple of supervillains.

But I've said all this before; I'm over it all now. TPTB are determined to keep Panabaker/Caitlin/Killer Frost around, just keep them away from the main storylines that matter.

*(which, again, they started that at the end of Season 3, then chickened out)

[Kate45]

54 minutes ago, tvduser93 said:

Flashpoint for Caitlin just means that her 'cryo-dna' has transformed/manifested into 'meta-dna' earlier than it would have in that other timeline.

 

Just because characters want there to be a true dual personality case (like firestorm was) for their own reasons/justifications, doesn't mean one really exists in her case.

I’m not sure what you are talking about at this point. 

Flashpoint has nothing to do with Caitlin or Thomas being metahumans as both has powers before the PAE happened. Even Todd (the show runner) said that Caitlin’s powers had nothing to do with with PAE. Also, when young Caitlin appeared in season 4, she looked about 8 or 9 years old, which means that was before the “fixed event” of Barry’s mother’s death when Barry was 11. Didn’t Thomas just acknowledge that he gave her these powers to stop her from getting ALS (instead of the MS diagnosis in previous seasons) which she was going to get in the future, according to him?

Finally, I’m not following the dual personality explaination you are giving. Are you saying that everyone with powers has a second personality? How so?

So, then, Barry, Cisco, and Ralph should put the same technology that Caitlin used and see if some other voice starts talking to them. Even so, everyone else seems to be able to control this other personality or powers, which means they have no other personality, just powers. That’s how it makes sense to me anyone. 

I seem to only recall one other person with a split personality with powers was Magenta in 3x03, but she also had a history of trauma and multiple personalities. I don’t recall them ever saying that Caitlin has a similar history with multiple personalities. 

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

It's the wanting it both ways that frustrates me. But the thing is, I think they could have done both things (have sassy, supervillain KF, AND team member CS), just not at the same time like they've been trying for the past 2 seasons. First, they'd have to commit to Caitlin giving in to the 'dark side' for a while* and go full villain; then start her redemption arc and work her way back to being a part of the team. Or they could have done more with Caitlin struggling with this dark side of herself, instead of the switch to her being friendly, and missing this (now) other person that has assaulted the team and been the enforcer for a couple of supervillains.

But I've said all this before; I'm over it all now. TPTB are determined to keep Panabaker/Caitlin/Killer Frost around, just keep them away from the main storylines that matter.

*(which, again, they started that at the end of Season 3, then chickened out)

...Taking my response to the Cailtin Snow thread...

Edited November 26, 2018 by DearEvette

[wingster55]

On 11/24/2018 at 11:49 PM, BkWurm1 said:

I've never had a problem with CP's acting but I also don't think DP is as bad as people say.  She isn't fabulous but I've seen so much worse in the Arrowverse including an actress that literally if she's not the focus of the scene sometimes just shuts down like a robot in the background, frozen in place.  For the most part I feel like DP gets what Caitlin is feeling across and her choices make sense for her character.  Now her storylines and what she often is supposed to sell have been nonsense so I'm not sure I hold it against her when DP can't sell it.  But few could I think.  The actresses on BL are all consistently good.  

Overall, the arrowverse the actresses throughout the 5 shows aren't very strong, albeit they've gotten stronger with the addition of BL women and JKP on the Flash. DP, all women on Arrow, CL and MB to a degree are all various shades of weak on the acting side tbh.

 

On 11/25/2018 at 12:07 AM, BkWurm1 said:

I get the frustration, Laurel in season three went from some self defense skills, a couple months of boxing lessons and a couple WEEKS lessons from someone from the League of Assassins into supposedly a super bad ass fighter that could hold her own with the best of the best.  It beyond strains the credulity but it's what the show wants to sell.  

Hey, if they want to show that the on and off training Oliver got over 5 years (mostly off) is enough to beat Nyssa every single time, then Laurel getting training from Ted and then Nyssa should be enough to hold her own. 

I digress though.