S05.E08: Shadow

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; Glory's minions are hysterical. The giant snake is a lot better than what we see in Graduation Day 2 and Band Candy. All the Buffy/Dawn/Joyce scenes are fantastic beyond belief.

The Bad; Not much although you continue to feel for Riley.

Best line; Willow; "Tomb-go-boom!"

Women good/men bad; Riley cheats on Buffy.

Jeez!; Not an ep for you if you suffer from Ophidiophobia

Kinky dinky; Riley get's some vamp action/snuff. Spike takes his stalking of Buffy to a new level, sniffing her sweater and stealing a pair of Buffy's skimpy pink frilly undies as Riley kicks him out. Dawn tells Riley Buffy cries a lot less with him about, she means well but this isn't what he wants to hear. Giles appears quite taken with Glory, can't blame him with her in that red leather dress. Xander also gives her the once-over

Captain Subtext; Check out the little look Willow gives Xander when he eyes up Glory, there's still something there. When Xander and Riley have their heart to heart Xander asks Riley "What kind of action are you looking for?" Ohhh matron! Dawn is quite the screamer (she could have been a Classic Dr Who companion) and one could say that this is Buffy protecting her virginal teenage sister from the threat of a huge phallic snake? Sitting astride it and restraining it with a chain.

Scoobies to the ER; Buffy needs an ice pack after Glory smacks her around.

Apocalypses; 5,

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 3 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 1 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1 Xander; 1 Dawn; 1

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy: 15 Giles: 10 Cordy: 6 Xander: 8 Will: 5 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 3 Faith: 1 Joyce: 3 Wes: 1 Anya;1

Kills: Riley kills Sandy, Buffy kills the snake demon Buffy: 86 vamps, 31 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 5 vamps, 1 demon Cordy: 3 vamps, a demon Will: 4 vamps Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 5 vamps, 2 zombies, a demon, a demon Anya: a demon Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons

Scoobies go evil: Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 2 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 3

Alternate scoobies: Buffy: 6 Giles: 3 Cordy: 1 Will: 2 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 3

Recurring characters killed: 9 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara

Sunnydale deaths; 83;

Total number of scoobies: 7 Giles, Xander, Willow, Buffy, Anya, Tara, Riley

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?) Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot: Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4 Riley; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: Should we count Riley and Sandy as a sexual act? Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes? Cordy: 1? Buffy: 3 confirmed; Angel, Parker,Riley, 1 possible, Dracula(?) Angel: 1;Buffy Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?) Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara Riley; 2; Buffy and Sandy

Questions and observations; Aleister Crowley was a famous British occultist/satanist who coined the phrase 'Do what thou wilt shall be the only law'. Xander refers to Riley as Captain America who was also a government supersoldier, Joss directing him in The Avengers. Joyce has a cellphone, about time one of the Sunnydale Scoobies did. The Sunnydale Zoo again. Another lovely Xander/Riley scene. Note when Riley goes to see Buffy after being with Sandy he wears a high necked sweater to cover the bite marks.

Marks out of 10; 7/10

[lembergwatcher]

9 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Riley cheats on Buffy.

I don't think we can call it "cheating".
 

9 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Spike takes his stalking of Buffy to a new level, sniffing her sweater and stealing a pair of Buffy's skimpy pink frilly undies as Riley kicks him out.

Another wasted opportunity to turn Spike into a pile of dust. I mean, Riley, you of all people, shouldn't be that shortsighted!!! The Scoobs, they could be blind enough to repeat the freakin' mantra about Spike's seeming "harmlessness", but a soldier boy? Why should he act like some pacifist hippie wannabe?..
 

9 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Check out the little look Willow gives Xander when he eyes up Glory, there's still something there.

Of course, there's still something there! And always will be no matter what.
 

9 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Dawn is quite the screamer

Well, at least I partly understand why they introduced little Dawnie in that season, Someone had to take Cordelia's vacant throne and be crowned with "Scream Queen of Buffyverse" crown.

Edited September 18, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Joe Hellandback]

5 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

I don't think we can call it "cheating".
 

Another wasted opportunity to turn Spike into a pile of dust. I mean, Riley, you of all people, shouldn't be that shortsighted!!! The Scoobs, they could be blind enough to repeat the freakin' mantra about Spike's seeming "harmlessness", but a soldier boy? Why should he act like some pacifist hippie wannabe?..
 

Of course, there's still something there! And always will be no matter what.
 

Well, at least I partly understand why they introduced little Dawnie in that season, Someone had to take Cordelia's vacant throne and be crowned with "Scream Queen of Buffyverse" crown.

I think Buffy considers it cheating?

[Halting Hex]

8 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Another wasted opportunity to turn Spike into a pile of dust. I mean, Riley, you of all people, shouldn't be that shortsighted!!! The Scoobs, they could be blind enough to repeat the freakin' mantra about Spike's seeming "harmlessness", but a soldier boy? Why should he act like some pacifist hippie wannabe?

What's really annoying about this season's Riley/Spike scenes is that Riley is trained in covert operations.  How difficult would it be to dust Spike and then just shrug and say "I guess he left town"?

As, of course, Spike ought to have done long ago, given that there's a Slayer lurking about and he can't fight back.  It's a big wide world, go find someplace safer.  Sheesh.

[Joe Hellandback]

7 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

What's really annoying about this season's Riley/Spike scenes is that Riley is trained in covert operations.  How difficult would it be to dust Spike and then just shrug and say "I guess he left town"?

As, of course, Spike ought to have done long ago, given that there's a Slayer lurking about and he can't fight back.  It's a big wide world, go find someplace safer.  Sheesh.

Then again he has nowhere else to go? Not to mention his Buffy obsession. Point is with Spike no longer dangerous the Scoobs are too moral to dust him. 

[lembergwatcher]

3 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Point is with Spike no longer dangerous the Scoobs are too moral to dust him.

Just because Spike cannot bite or snap necks doesn't mean he is "no longer dangerous". I hope you remember The Yoko Factor or Out of My Mind.

Spoiler

If those eps do not ring the alarm bell for you, then you may also recall later ep Crush from season 5, where Spike calmly feeds off human blood after Dru did the dirty job for him. Then again I don't think it's that exciting or safe to find oneself chained in Spikey's dark crypt like Buffy did.

As for the moral issues, I don't think Spike is the case for someone to have the moral high ground at all costs 

Edited September 19, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Jack Shaftoe]

There is absolutely nothing immoral about dusting Spike. He has betrayed the Scoobs more than once at that point, the chip is an experimental technology which might stop working at any time and which doesn't stop him from being dangerous in other, less direct ways (like finding minions and using their muscles). The only reason not to do it is Spike's plot armor, no need to pretend otherwise when even Sunnydale's "demon community" only lets him off with a beating and a last warning for some reason

Spoiler

and even the supposedly ruthless Watcher's Council wasn't interested in staking this notorious murderer and Riley, in one of the dumbest scenes in the history of television, decided to use a plastic stake on Spike.

Quote

Then again he has nowhere else to go?

Anywhere where there is no Slayer and no Initiative? I.e. any town that is not Sunnydale. But no, Spike, the big survivor, keeps on taunting the people who are supposed to hate him, even though he is (mostly) helpless. It's like the writers weren't content of giving him a plot armor, they had to have him flaunt it because that was oh, so funny.

Quote

How difficult would it be to dust Spike and then just shrug and say "I guess he left town"?

Why even hide it? It's not like Buffy and the rest liked Spike at that point. If Riley had gone "Yeah, I staked that annoying fool" I doubt their reaction would have gone much further than "Whatever, dude". If they were allowed to stay in character, that is, but as we all know this certainly wasn't the case when the issue of Spike came up in these seasons.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Jack Shaftoe

[Joe Hellandback]

8 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

There is absolutely nothing immoral about dusting Spike. He has betrayed the Scoobs more than once at that point, the chip is an experimental technology which might stop working at any time and which doesn't stop him from being dangerous in other, less direct ways (like finding minions and using their muscles). The only reason not to do it is Spike's plot armor, no need to pretend otherwise when even Sunnydale's "demon community" only lets him off with a beating and a last warning for some reason

  Hide contents

and even the supposedly ruthless Watcher's Council wasn't interested in staking this notorious murderer and Riley, in one of the dumbest scenes in the history of television, decided to use a plastic stake on Spike.

Anywhere where there is no Slayer and no Initiative? I.e. any town that is not Sunnydale. But no, Spike, the big survivor, keeps on taunting the people who are supposed to hate him, even though he is (mostly) helpless. It's like the writers weren't content of giving him a plot armor, they had to have him flaunt it because that was oh, so funny.

Why even hide it? It's not like Buffy and the rest liked Spike at that point. If Riley had gone "Yeah, I staked that annoying fool" I doubt their reaction would have gone much further than "Whatever, dude". If they were allowed to stay in character, that is, but as we all know this certainly wasn't the case when the issue of Spike came up in these seasons.

But how? He can't feed, he relies on handouts from the Scoobs, remember? 

10 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Just because Spike cannot bite or snap necks doesn't mean he is "no longer dangerous". I hope you remember The Yoko Factor or Out of My Mind.

  Hide contents

If those eps do not ring the alarm bell for you, then you may also recall later ep Crush from season 5, where Spike calmly feeds off human blood after Dru did the dirty job for him. Then again I don't think it's that exciting or safe to find oneself chained in Spikey's dark crypt like Buffy did.

As for the moral issues, I don't think Spike is the case for someone to have the moral high ground at all costs 

I'm not saying he's not evil but he's neutered. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

But how? He can't feed, he relies on handouts from the Scoobs, remember? 

He can steal, can't he? And I am pretty sure the Scoobs don't feed him most of the time anyway.

[illdoc]

Angel seemed to have no trouble getting blood. It's not like he had a job in Sunnydale. Spike can get "old/expired" blood from the hospital. Wasn't there a scene in Buffy when the vampires were doing just that? Furthermore, have we actually seen that Spike can't hurt animals? We know he can't hurt humans and can hurt demons, but I don't recall a scene where he tried to eat a rat (or something) and couldn't. Angel survived years in NY, eating rats.

[Joe Hellandback]

9 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

He can steal, can't he? And I am pretty sure the Scoobs don't feed him most of the time anyway.

But he can still mooch of them and it's probably easier for him to love in a place like Sunnydale which caters for the supernatural (and would avoid LA due to Captain Forehead)

8 hours ago, illdoc said:

Angel seemed to have no trouble getting blood. It's not like he had a job in Sunnydale. Spike can get "old/expired" blood from the hospital. Wasn't there a scene in Buffy when the vampires were doing just that? Furthermore, have we actually seen that Spike can't hurt animals? We know he can't hurt humans and can hurt demons, but I don't recall a scene where he tried to eat a rat (or something) and couldn't. Angel survived years in NY, eating rats.

Riley says he can't hurt any living thing and Harmony says he can't even pick flowers. Angel had money whilst Spike was always broke. 

[Halting Hex]

9 hours ago, illdoc said:

Spike can get "old/expired" blood from the hospital. Wasn't there a scene in Buffy when the vampires were doing just that?

No, they were trying to steal the fresh blood in The Dark Age.  Angel did have a bottle of blood in his refrigerator in Angel, but I forget if it specifically said "expired" the way his blood in Are You or Have You Ever Been did.

Of course, he can always get handouts from the butcher shops, the way that Angel did in The Prom.  Might need an income for that, but I suppose Spike could steal jewels/cars/whatever and use that money to finance his blood "habit".

As for rats, the Initiative claimed the chip made it impossible for "Hostile 17" to harm "any living thing".  But they were already proven wrong with the demon loophole, and so shouldn't be taken for experts, I suppose.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Halting Hex

[illdoc]

10 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Harmony says he can't even pick flowers.

Harmony?? You're relying on Harmony????

[Joe Hellandback]

14 hours ago, illdoc said:

Harmony?? You're relying on Harmony????

The speed with which he denies it gives it credibility. 

[Halting Hex]

As for Spike's surviving with limited blood, in Becoming Part 1, Whistler posits that Stinky!Angel is eating "a rat, once a month".  (Angel doesn't dispute this.)  I'm reasonably sure Spike could find enough dead cats/birds/whatever to get a sufficient supply.  

He can probably simply deploy rat/mousetraps and live off of the results.  I doubt that loading some cheese into the "bait" portion of the trap would set off his chip, given that there's no "living creature" involved at this point.