S03.E03: Faith, Hope and Trick

[Joe Hellandback]

Faith, Hope and Trick

The Good; Faith. Need I really say any more? Faith dancing and fighting is great but also the scenes where we get to see her terrified, more vulnerable side. Love the scenes where Buffy is being single-white-femaled by Faith which she takes with surprising good humour. And Angel's back, yay! Love Joyce sticking it to Snyder and the uncoupling scene at Buffy's picnic.

The Bad; The idea of Mr Trick being able to order children online as food is just too horrible for words

Best line; Mr Trick "Admittedly not a haven for the bruthas, strictly of the Caucasion persuasion here in the Dale" just beating Xander's wonderful "People say kids don't learn anything at High School. well I learnt, I learnt to be afraid!"

Tied up; no but presumably Faith was handcuffed when she was arrested

Kinky dinky; Now that Faith is on the scene I expect to have a great deal more to write in this column. She starts off with naked slaying and alligator wrestling and saying Slaying makes you 'hungry and horny'

Spoiler

(of course in 'Get It Done' we discover why Slayers have these sort of feelings). Buffy's fondling of the letter opener is reminiscent of her stroking the crystal in 'Helpless'.

 And of course, the writers find an excuse for nude Angel too. According to Willow, Buffy has a thing she does with her mouth that 'boys like'. Hmmmmm? Xander calls Buffy a slut.  Cordy refers to Faith as 'Slut-o-rama' but also suggests that she dress up as a Slayer and put a stake to Xander's throat, a sex game he seems keen on.

Calling Captain Subtext; Faith obviously hungers for both a mother and father figure, commenting on Giles' 'youth and beauty' and obviously enamoured of Joyce, saying she's really cool

Spoiler

(something I suspect Buffy and Dawn would also think but never say).

Joyce says she likes Faith and Buffy describes Joyce as the 'best mom ever'. Faith's line about her 'Dead mother hitting harder than that' is loaded with not so hidden meaning. Faith has not only never knew her dad but lost her mother and also her female Watcher making her pretty desperate for some maternal/paternal love. So I pronounce this Jaith and Gaith. She also starts putting the moves on Scott Hope, the beginning of a long tradition of stealing Buffy's boyfriends (Buffy is still touchy when Faith mentions Angel). BUT even Buffy describes Faith as 'personable' the beginning of the biggest subtext in the series. Joyce actually refers to marching in the 'Slayer pride parade' again likening being the Slayer to being gay.

Questions and observations; The introduction of Mr Trick and Faith, the series just never looking back from this point. Kakistos seems to not be killable with a regular stake.

Spoiler

Like The Master he seems to be so old that he's devolving into a Turok-Han. Martha Stewart is mentioned as she is later revealed by Anya to be a witch. Giles' subtle efforts to get Buffy to reveal the truth about what happened to Angel (another point against Normal Again, Buffy never knows about this). I know some people think that she was killed during Faith's Cruciamentum which we'll later see in Helpless but that happens when a Slayer turns 18 and Faith is younger than Buffy who is 17 (Buffy refers to Faith as her little sister, at least until Dawn comes along).

There are no leprechauns in the Buffyverse but judging by DB's attempts at an Irish accent and Charmed's efforts in that direction we should be grateful. Faith's dead Watcher was female, the first we've heard about. Giles loves to kayak. Couldn't the Watcher's Council pay for Faith to have a better apartment?

Spoiler

Or couldn't she live with Giles or Buffy and Joyce (Dawn's room isn't being used yet). Presumably Khakisto's scar doesn't heal because Faith inflicted it with some form of enchanted weapon, like Spike's with the Chinese Slayer. Joyce comments on Buffy being an only child and learns for the first time that Buffy died. You wonder what Dawn makes of Faith? She resents her when they first meet in season 7 but what's her attitude on season 3?

 Mr Trick is right, not many visible ethnic minorities in Sunnydale but I've been to Santa Barbara which it's apparently based on and it's a pretty accurate representation. Giles warns Willow for the first time about abuse of magic. You can make fire from ice and it doesn't take magic. 

Why no commentaries on all these brilliant episodes? Crap like Reptile Boy gets them but not classics like this? Please Joss, if you need a few million dollars to finance your next project just sit down with the cast and do some commentaries for Buffy; Special Edition Bluerays, we'd all buy them.

10/10

[CletusMusashi]

Season 3 will probably always be my favorite, and this is the ep that really starts it.

[Joe Hellandback]

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Season 3 will probably always be my favorite, and this is the ep that really starts it.

Seconded, the first couple of eps are still dealing with the leftovers of season 2, when Faith appears then we're really off and running. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Pallas]

8 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

What I also find remarkable is how young Eliza was at the time. Wasn't she like 17 or 18?

Eliza turned 18 halfway through the season; once she won the part as a 17-year-old, she petitioned for legal emancipation in order to work the show's shooting schedule.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎30‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 6:19 AM, CletusMusashi said:

Season 3 will probably always be my favorite, and this is the ep that really starts it.

Absolutely, the series hits its' stride here and some would say it peaks, never really so good again. 

 

On ‎30‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 10:09 AM, nosleepforme said:

Willow's wonderfully awkward lines are my favorites:

• "Or you can do this thing with your mouth that boys like...no, not that bad thing with your mouth, I mean that little half-smile thing that you do.."
• "Have you ever noticed that when he's angry but too British to say anything, he makes this weird tock tock noise with his tongue...." - Buffy: "Hello Giles" - "Oh hey Giles. Been there long?"

I do like Mr. Trick though. I remember, when I first watched the show, he barely made an impression on me. But nowadays

 

  Hide contents

I wish he had stuck around longer. (Just like I generally wish, the show would have cast more diverse actors)

 

 

For me, Faith will always be Eliza's best role. No offence to Echo.  She was just born to play that part. I like her accent, the way she moves and talks. As well as her dynamic with Buffy. I am still very sad about the fact that we never got a Faith spin off. That would have been heaven. What I also find remarkable is how young Eliza was at the time. Wasn't she like 17 or 18? Yet she was still so good in this part.

 

To be fair, at this point they didn't even know that she was there. But generally, the Watchers Council was never explored very well. Season 5 Spoiler ahead:

  Reveal hidden contents

In season five, when Buffy gains power over the Council and says that she is looking forward to working with the Council again, we actually do never see her working with the council again. 

 

UNPOPULAR OPINION ALERT: I kind of liked Scott Hope.

You can catch K Todd Freeman on A Series of Unfortunate Events these days. Yes, just like SMG this was the role ED was just born to play but both have tried to distance themselves from it ever since, understandably enough. The thing about Echo was she wasn't ONE character, I just wish we'd seen more of her as Tru. I liked Scott too although we perhaps didn't have enough time to really get to know him.   

23 hours ago, Pallas said:

Eliza turned 18 halfway through the season; once she won the part as a 17-year-old, she petitioned for legal emancipation in order to work the show's shooting schedule.

So strange but that's showbusiness and why you get so many twins playing babies/toddlers and 30 year old CC playing a 16 year old. . 

[Halting Hex]

On June 29, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

Buffy describes Faith as 'personable' the beginning of the biggest subtext in the series.

Well, Buffy/Willow goes back to their first scene together, where they don't even speak to each other (the water fountain) so you could give them the trophy for volume, but this is definitely the most blatant.  And Greenwald pretty much makes it canon in the episode, with Buffy and Faith following up the slaying of Cheese Toast by discussing how "hungry" they are.  Not hard to remember the other half of that conversation from earlier on; I guess Buffy's craving more than a non-fat yogurt right now.

The very first B/F fic was written the night this episode aired; I've seen it.  (Unfortunately, I forgot to save it.)  It's pretty simple (Buffy and Faith fuck in the alleyway), but the relationship isn't exactly high art here.

On June 29, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

Joyce actually refers to marching in the 'Slayer pride parade' again likening being the Slayer to being gay.

Also, during this scene you can see a rainbow reflected in one of the glasses, although that may have been no more than a happy accident.

On June 29, 2018 at 3:33 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

Best line

I've always had a weak spot for Buffy's line re Faith: "She's not playing with a full deck.  She has no deck.  She has a three."  The "three" is so nicely random there.  And of course there's this bit:

Quote

BUFFY: [whines about Faith flirting with Scott]

WILLOW:  [sighs, quotes Faith] You really do need to find the fun, B—

BUFFY: [Gives LOOK OF DEATH]

WILLOW: [backtracking] -uffy.

But of course "gives LOOK OF DEATH" isn't really a "line", per se.

The absolute pinnacle has to be the antepenultimate scene, though.  The three best actors on the series (IMO) all at their best and it shines.  From Sarah's apologetic confession ("your spell worked, Will") to her guilt at remembering ("He just held me.  But it was too late and I, I had to.") and then the beautiful poetry of the triplet ("so I told him that I loved him, and I kissed him, and I killed him") and ASH's stoic reaction and Aly's contrasting open sorrow and then the coda after Buffy leaves, when Willow eager-beavers about the spell (and Giles flinches, because he realizes he's going to have to tell her…did he ever tell Buffy, I wonder?) and the simple beauty of "there is no spell" and Aly running effortlessly through that checklist of reactions ("What?" "OH!" "Wow, Giles is so smart!" "Oh, poor Buffy…") without saying a word.  Sheer brilliance.  

The higher emotions of the "I quit" scene in Prophecy Girl make me place that just a little bit higher, but Aly is definitely an upgrade over Season 1 David so, on a scale of 1-to-10, this one doesn't exactly suck.

On July 1, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Eliza turned 18 halfway through the season

There's a lot to be said about a season dedicated to putting 17-year-old Eliza's ass in tight leather pants, almost all of it good.  The only downside is that 

Spoiler

they decided to start dressing SMG in these Junior League outfits and Jackie Kennedy pillbox purses and so on, to show us that she was the "good" one for contrast and all that.  

Which is just wrong;  Buffy should always be the star of her own show in all ways, including sex appeal.  It's her name in the title, after all.  Not Faith is SO Hot (and That Boring Priss, Buffy, Too), ffs.

Just another reason why I grade S2 above S3, with no disrespect to the latter intended.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

7 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Well, Buffy/Willow goes back to their first scene together, where they don't even speak to each other (the water fountain) so you could give them the trophy for volume, but this is definitely the most blatant.  And Greenwald pretty much makes it canon in the episode, with Buffy and Faith following up the slaying of Cheese Toast by discussing how "hungry" they are.  Not hard to remember the other half of that conversation from earlier on; I guess Buffy's craving more than a non-fat yogurt right now.

The very first B/F fic was written the night this episode aired; I've seen it.  (Unfortunately, I forgot to save it.)  It's pretty simple (Buffy and Faith fuck in the alleyway), but the relationship isn't exactly high art here.

Also, during this scene you can see a rainbow reflected in one of the glasses, although that may have been no more than a happy accident.

I've always had a weak spot for Buffy's line re Faith: "She's not playing with a full deck.  She has no deck.  She has a three."  The "three" is so nicely random there.  And of course there's this bit:

But of course "gives LOOK OF DEATH" isn't really a "line", per se.

The absolute pinnacle has to be the antepenultimate scene, though.  The three best actors on the series (IMO) all at their best and it shines.  From Sarah's apologetic confession ("your spell worked, Will") to her guilt at remembering ("He just held me.  But it was too late and I, I had to.") and then the beautiful poetry of the triplet ("so I told him that I loved him, and I kissed him, and I killed him") and ASH's stoic reaction and Aly's contrasting open sorrow and then the coda after Buffy leaves, when Willow eager-beavers about the spell (and Giles flinches, because he realizes he's going to have to tell her…did he ever tell Buffy, I wonder?) and the simple beauty of "there is no spell" and Aly running effortlessly through that checklist of reactions ("What?" "OH!" "Wow, Giles is so smart!" "Oh, poor Buffy…") without saying a word.  Sheer brilliance.  

The higher emotions of the "I quit" scene in Prophecy Girl make me place that just a little bit higher, but Aly is definitely an upgrade over Season 1 David so, on a scale of 1-to-10, this one doesn't exactly suck.

There's a lot to be said about a season dedicated to putting 17-year-old Eliza's ass in tight leather pants, almost all of it good.  The only downside is that 

  Hide contents

they decided to start dressing SMG in these Junior League outfits and Jackie Kennedy pillbox purses and so on, to show us that she was the "good" one for contrast and all that.  

Which is just wrong;  Buffy should always be the star of her own show in all ways, including sex appeal.  It's her name in the title, after all.  Not Faith is SO Hot (and That Boring Priss, Buffy, Too), ffs.

Just another reason why I grade S2 above S3, with no disrespect to the latter intended.

 

I must say I didn't get that impression from the first Willow/Buffy meeting and I'm normally pretty up on subtext with being an old Xena fan. Buffy/Faith however it was there from the beginning. Unfortunately I was not online at the time and missed a lot of the reactions to the series at the time (didn't hit the Bronze until the last 4 eps of season 6).

Good call on the rainbow and the outfits, especially apparent at the end of Revelations, they even comment on it in the commentary.  As for ED's booyiliciousness just wait to see what they have 

Spoiler

Dawn wearing 

by late season 6.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Halting Hex]

So…do with think that Mr. Trick saying Sunnydale's death rate "makes D.C. look like Mayberry" means that he's actually from our nation's (murder) capital, or he just followed the news?  The idea of Trick snacking on some of those lobbyists on K Street isn't exactly unappealing, IMO.

[lembergwatcher]

We can only guess, 'cause the writers failed to provide Mr. Trick's backstory. Though I choose option one.

[Joe Hellandback]

9 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

So…do with think that Mr. Trick saying Sunnydale's death rate "makes D.C. look like Mayberry" means that he's actually from our nation's (murder) capital, or he just followed the news?  The idea of Trick snacking on some of those lobbyists on K Street isn't exactly unappealing, IMO.

I don't think so, I think he was just linked in on that new fangled internet. From his accent I doubt he's from Washington, he reminds me of Sportin Life from Porgy and Bess. 

[lembergwatcher]

He might live in Washington for some time, but could have been born elsewhere.

[Halting Hex]

From a Digital Spy "things you didn't know" list:

Quote

 Joss Whedon didn't intend for there to be lesbian subtext between Buffy and Faith, and was initially irritated when fans raised the subject on message boards. "I was like 'You guys see lesbian subtext behind every corner, you just want to see girls kissing – get over it," 

Oh, bullshit.  Joss said that he wasn't going to an arc for Larry in late-S2 because he was doing "a gay arc about Buffy", what with "coming out" to Joyce.  This very episode has Joyce's "Slayer Pride Parade" remark, and most famously, Faith's remarking about how slaying makes you "hungry and horny" and Buffy denying it…and then after they slay Kakistos, Faith asking if Buffy is hungry and Buffy going "starving".  Meaning that she has conceded Faith's point, and that she is therefore also really horny and that this horniness is something that the Slayers share because of their (almost) unique nature.  Nah, that's not gay at all.

Surrrrre, Joss.  Surrrre.

[Joe Hellandback]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

From a Digital Spy "things you didn't know" list:

Oh, bullshit.  Joss said that he wasn't going to an arc for Larry in late-S2 because he was doing "a gay arc about Buffy", what with "coming out" to Joyce.  This very episode has Joyce's "Slayer Pride Parade" remark, and most famously, Faith's remarking about how slaying makes you "hungry and horny" and Buffy denying it…and then after they slay Kakistos, Faith asking if Buffy is hungry and Buffy going "starving".  Meaning that she has conceded Faith's point, and that she is therefore also really horny and that this horniness is something that the Slayers share because of their (almost) unique nature.  Nah, that's not gay at all.

Surrrrre, Joss.  Surrrre.

If I recall he said that Fuffy wasn't deliberate but when he went back and watched it he realised the subtext was there all along, Doug Petrie was always keen to push it according to the commentaries as was ED.

[Halting Hex]

From a general discussion of S3, elsewhere:

Angel's inexplicable return is a bad sign of things to come.

You'd have a tough time convincing a lot of the fans that Naked Sweaty Boreanaz!Ass is a bad thing, though. ;)

Although I can't help but notice that he's summoned by Buffy's leaving the Claddagh ring behind.  So I just imagine the returning Angel landing on the ring and its getting lodged in his bum-cheek.  Ouch!

[Halting Hex]

So…what's the sequence of events, exactly?  If Faith did the damage to Kakistos's eye after he killed her Watcher, why did she stop kicking ass and start running?  Seems as though she could have pressed her advantage.

Or if Faith injured Kissing Toast during their initial battle, why did he waste time doing "they don't have a word for what he did" to her Watcher, instead of to Faith herself?  I grant you that his vision might have been a bit impaired by his injuries, but it still makes more sense to disembowel the girl who hurt you, not some passing tweed-head.

And how does the "big ol' daddy-vamp" in Missouri, who kept alligators as pets (in Missouri?) fit into this?  If Faith was so traumatized by what happened to her and her (late) Watcher that she's running all the way across the country to hide behind Buffy, why would she stop off in the Show-Me State to start trouble with the local Undead-Americans?  Seems as though this would interfere with the "RUN!!!" imperative, there.

Or was that a previous trip that Faith and her Watcher had made to Mizzou before this?  Hell of a side trip from Boston, though.

Or was Khaki Trousers the Missouri "daddy" vamp?  But again, why so far from the Hub?  Yes, Boston v. St. Louis is the only championship matchup to have occurred in all four major sports (although this was before the 2001 Patriots-Rams Super Bowl), but Faith doesn't seem like an ESPn junkie, I wouldn't think.

Any ideas?

[lembergwatcher]

Missouri could've happened before Kissing Toast ended Faith's Watcher.

Or Miss Slut-o-Rama could've fantasized (lied) about the whole thing...

[Halting Hex]

Yeah, but if Faith's telling fibs, that means that the Naked!Slaying story might not be real, either.

And I don't want to live in that kind of world.  😪

[lembergwatcher]

7 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Yeah, but if Faith's telling fibs, that means that the Naked!Slaying story might not be real, either.

Well, there definitely had to be something involving nudity. Not necessarily slaying though 😉

Edited October 21, 2020 by lembergwatcher

[lembergwatcher]

Does anyone know what happened to Buffy's Claddagh ring after Angel returned back to Sunnydale, naked and sweaty? 

Spoiler

Was this VERY important item even mentioned throughout the rest of Buffy series or in any episode of Angel?

What could have happened to the aforementioned gift we first saw in Surprise? Do you think Angel kept it? 

Spoiler

Or did he give it to Cordy or Fred or Gwen or Nina? My version is that it ended up in Forehead's ass. What's your version?

 

[Halting Hex]

A note:  in the script, after Buffy freaks out and drops the Claddagh Scott gives her, we see Scott pick up the ring…and it's not a Claddagh at all.  Buffy's just seeing things because she has Angel-on-the-brain.

I think I would have preferred that version; it underscores Buffy's fixation and it avoids the coincidence of Scott just happening to give Buffy the exact same ring.  Oh, well.

Spoiler

And I say Angel gave it to Lorne.  It seems he'd be the most appreciative.

 

[Loandbehold]

On 12/4/2020 at 6:19 AM, lembergwatcher said:

What could have happened to the aforementioned gift we first saw in Surprise? Do you think Angel kept it? 

I think Angel, who is a pretty large fellow, fell from a great height and flattened the ring. He then used it for spackle to fix a hole in the mansion (a lot of damage was done during the fight.

[Halting Hex]

Quote

FAITH:  So, did you really use a rocket-launcher one time?

But Buffy doesn't get to tell that story, since Xander cuts in to ask Faith about the alligators (in Missouri??), because we're trying to get "poor Buffy!" sympathy for our suddenly self-involved lead character by having all her friends ignore her for the new girl.  As David Hines pointed out, this is the same thing David Greenwalt pulled in his last script, Ted.  The difference is that back then, the gang had an excuse, since they were drugged.  Here, they're simply (and inexplicably) written as gossipy assholes.  Thanks, Greenie!

Okay, I grant you that Eliza Dushku's underage ass in tight leather pants is a pretty powerful drug, but still. And we shouldn't be surprised that Joyce insults Buffy ("Buffy can be awfully negative") in front of Faith because, well…Joyce.  (Sigh.)  But I expect better of W/X and I'm annoyed I'm not getting it.

Hey, why does Xander change the subject, anyway?  Shouldn't he want to tell the rocket-launcher story, since he was the one who thought up the plan to beat the unkillable humanity-destroying demon, masterminded stealing the weapon from the Army by using his Super-Military powers, and pretty much saved the fucking world?  Seems as though that might be pretty useful for impressing Hot Naked Slayer Chick.

But of course it won't do to remind viewers that Xander is a hero, rather than a random horndog.  And Buffy can't look all pouty if Xander actually answers Faith's question, right?

***********************************************

So, Faith is beating up on one vampire while Buffy is fighting off a vamp with lots of black hair and another with a face like a weasel.  And they've got the advantage on her and Buffy calls for Faith, but she's in her own world, and we go to commercial.

And when we return, Buffy grabs a broken 2x4, smacks black-hair in the face and he falls out of frame.  Then she stands up and Weasel-Face tries to grab her from behind, and she casually reverse-stakes him with the broken wood and goes over to Faith, eventually staking the vamp Faith was pulverizing.

Wait a second:  what happened to the black-haired vamp?  Buffy knocked him down, but she didn't stake him.  Did she just let him wander off or something?  Maybe she shouldn't be critiquing Faith's lack of slayage, then.

Or did Faith chase him down and stake him?  Giles does say that Buffy told him Faith slayed one of the vamps, but we never saw that.  Maybe she was cleaning up after Buffy?

******************************************

When Buffy went to the Crawford Street Mansion at the end, Alley Box wondered where Acathla was.  Good question!

Did Giles and Xander move the statue?  How? Where did they put it?

Why doesn't Angel reappear where the statue is?  He's bound to Acathla, right? That's why Buffy had to stab him, why stabbing him closed the vortex.  So how does Angel pop out of a vortex without Al Franken around to create it?

Yeah, yeah, it's the POWER OF THE CLADDAGH (buy one now!) and Buffy and Angel's looooooove.  But if that's all it takes, how come Angel didn't just materialize in Buffy's bedroom before this?  And why does he only appear once Buffy gets rid of her ring?  That doesn't sound very romantic, I wouldn't think.  Odd.

 

[lembergwatcher]

On 6/21/2021 at 9:05 PM, Halting Hex said:

Did Giles and Xander move the statue?  How? Where did they put it?

1) I guess they did; 2) Maybe they've hired some crew for this; 3) They probably put it back at the museum?

On 6/21/2021 at 9:05 PM, Halting Hex said:

But if that's all it takes, how come Angel didn't just materialize in Buffy's bedroom before this?

You mean naked  Angel in Buffy's bedroom? That could've lead to some bad places... 

[Halting Hex]

I criticized Jenny Trout in the thread for The Initiative, but as she's been known to do, she redeems herself in my eyes by hating on Joyce Summers.

(Am I only posting this to see if Joe is still reading this forum?  Possibly…)

Anyhow…

Quote

 

Quote

BUFFY Plus, at school today [Faith] was making eyes at my not-boyfriend. This is creepy.”

JOYCE: Does anybody else think Faith is creepy?

Whoa there, Joyce. Turn down those gaslights. Buffy’s feelings are not decided by committee, and if she’s feeling displaced in her own life because of Faith’s arrival, that’s her thing. You might not agree with it, but you don’t get to force her to feel something else.

Very true.  And I trust Ms. Trout will likewise stop criticizing Xander for not liking Buffy's boyfriends, right?  Jenny?

Jenny…?

Edited May 8, 2023 by Halting Hex