Queries, Questions & Quandaries: Aka 'WTF' Stuffs

[ken2esq]

This issue has been bugging me since the end of season 2.  Quentin and the gang are soooo devastated by the loss of magic, and are desperate to restore it, and find some quest that might just accomplish that, and are risking their lives to do it.  I get that.  That makes sense.

What does not make sense is that apparently Brakebills and possibly other magic schools have been around forever, or at least for centuries, churning out class after class after class of magicians.  Plus there are all the hedge witches like Julia.  So far, when Q and the gang meet any of these other magicians, the writers have written all of these others as if they have simply written off magic forever.  Sure, they may be very upset or depressed (e.g., Alice's mother turns to booze), but really?  None of those thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands are actively trying to restore magic, too?  These people who have lived with it far, far longer than Q and the gang?  Does that seem totally unrealistic?

Here is what would REALLY happen if you had a secret society of thousands and thousands of magicians and then, one day, magic stopped working:  They would be meeting regularly and consulting all possible authorities on how to restore magic.  And pooling resources.  I mean, we are to believe the Board of Brakebills decided to sell the school off, like, less than a year after magic ended?  Does that seem ridiculous to anyone else?  Not just that none of them are actively working to restore magic, but that they'd be so quick to assume there was no hope?

The part where this really annoys me is that over and over again, Q and the gang need help from others, and these others are very reluctant, and it is a major ordeal to convince them to give some miserly bit of assistance to this cause.  WTF???  First, Dean Fogg would put the word out right away that a group of students has a line on a way to restore magic and is actively working on the solution, but may need help.  Next, every time Q and the gang need something, they would go to this alumni / magician network.  You need some one released from a mental hospital?  There are probably some magicians in positions of influence there.  You need something from a magical creature who drives a hard bargain?  I'm sure with all magicians pooling their resources, it will be easy to meet that creature's price.  See, the community of magicians would never make it SO FRIGGIN" HARD on the people trying to restore magic, they would be their best allies.

Let's assume the writers do not want to make it too easy on the lead characters.  Do you do that by just pretending that none of the other thousands of magicians are going to act the way any real person in their position would act, so that the entire plot becomes phony and contrived?  Or do you find a reason that Q and the gang are persona non gratis with the rest of magicians?  How about a little effort by the writers to make a story that not only challenges taboo subjects and is raw in many novel ways, but ALSO is smart and does not rely on absurd contrivances to create conflict?  At the very least, for F's sake, when Q and the gang go specifically to a former magician who is lamenting the downfall of their happy magical world, can't they at least that THAT person to help them voluntarily because that person clearly benefits if they succeed in their quest?  Can't we even get that tiny sliver of realism?  No?  And that's what's wrong with this picture.

[KaleyFirefly]

2 minutes ago, ken2esq said:

This issue has been bugging me since the end of season 2.  Quentin and the gang are soooo devastated by the loss of magic, and are desperate to restore it, and find some quest that might just accomplish that, and are risking their lives to do it.  I get that.  That makes sense.

What does not make sense is that apparently Brakebills and possibly other magic schools have been around forever, or at least for centuries, churning out class after class after class of magicians.  Plus there are all the hedge witches like Julia.  So far, when Q and the gang meet any of these other magicians, the writers have written all of these others as if they have simply written off magic forever.  Sure, they may be very upset or depressed (e.g., Alice's mother turns to booze), but really?  None of those thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands are actively trying to restore magic, too?  These people who have lived with it far, far longer than Q and the gang?  Does that seem totally unrealistic?

Here is what would REALLY happen if you had a secret society of thousands and thousands of magicians and then, one day, magic stopped working:  They would be meeting regularly and consulting all possible authorities on how to restore magic.  And pooling resources.  I mean, we are to believe the Board of Brakebills decided to sell the school off, like, less than a year after magic ended?  Does that seem ridiculous to anyone else?  Not just that none of them are actively working to restore magic, but that they'd be so quick to assume there was no hope?

The part where this really annoys me is that over and over again, Q and the gang need help from others, and these others are very reluctant, and it is a major ordeal to convince them to give some miserly bit of assistance to this cause.  WTF???  First, Dean Fogg would put the word out right away that a group of students has a line on a way to restore magic and is actively working on the solution, but may need help.  Next, every time Q and the gang need something, they would go to this alumni / magician network.  You need some one released from a mental hospital?  There are probably some magicians in positions of influence there.  You need something from a magical creature who drives a hard bargain?  I'm sure with all magicians pooling their resources, it will be easy to meet that creature's price.  See, the community of magicians would never make it SO FRIGGIN" HARD on the people trying to restore magic, they would be their best allies.

Let's assume the writers do not want to make it too easy on the lead characters.  Do you do that by just pretending that none of the other thousands of magicians are going to act the way any real person in their position would act, so that the entire plot becomes phony and contrived?  Or do you find a reason that Q and the gang are persona non gratis with the rest of magicians?  How about a little effort by the writers to make a story that not only challenges taboo subjects and is raw in many novel ways, but ALSO is smart and does not rely on absurd contrivances to create conflict?  At the very least, for F's sake, when Q and the gang go specifically to a former magician who is lamenting the downfall of their happy magical world, can't they at least that THAT person to help them voluntarily because that person clearly benefits if they succeed in their quest?  Can't we even get that tiny sliver of realism?  No?  And that's what's wrong with this picture.

All very true.

And, it irritated me to no end that Dean Fogg thinks that getting meager rations of magic from the library (only after filling out those forms in triplicate!) is better than helping Quinn & Co. just restore magic for everyone. Made no sense.

[Hanahope]

7 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

And, it irritated me to no end that Dean Fogg thinks that getting meager rations of magic from the library (only after filling out those forms in triplicate!) is better than helping Quinn & Co. just restore magic for everyone. Made no sense.

It only makes sense because Brakebills was sold to the woman who enslaved and maimed the fairies and if/when magic returns, because she's still alive, she still owns Brakebills and could put Dean Fogg out on his ass if he didn't work with her (and she probably gets whatever she wants for magic because she got the library its magic back, plus control).  Plus, Dean Fogg is an elitist.  He doesn't want hedge witches to have magic.  He wants to control it as well, and he figured he could work with the library's control requirements, where others could not.

I too didn't get why others wouldn't help.  So many of those Brakebills graduates relied on magic for their jobs (like the bank alarm person).  if they don't have magic, they can't work and wouldn't that be really hurting their income?

[qtpye]

23 hours ago, Hanahope said:

It only makes sense because Brakebills was sold to the woman who enslaved and maimed the fairies and if/when magic returns, because she's still alive, she still owns Brakebills and could put Dean Fogg out on his ass if he didn't work with her (and she probably gets whatever she wants for magic because she got the library its magic back, plus control).  Plus, Dean Fogg is an elitist.  He doesn't want hedge witches to have magic.  He wants to control it as well, and he figured he could work with the library's control requirements, where others could not.

I too didn't get why others wouldn't help.  So many of those Brakebills graduates relied on magic for their jobs (like the bank alarm person).  if they don't have magic, they can't work and wouldn't that be really hurting their income?

Yes, magic provided live of unlimited wealth and luxury for the magicians. They were like the one percent of the one percent. It would really be difficult for these people to get used to living like the rest of us in the real world.

[diebartdie]

If they were the 1% of the 1%, it wouldn't matter if they had magic or not, they would have lives of ease. Think Jeff Bezos, a man who "earns" $52 MILLION A DAY. Amazon could disappear tomorrow and Bezos would still be ultramegadisgustingly rich. Same with any magician who had loads of non-magical money. Those that just had these fantastical lives built purely on magic with no real resources, well then yeah, they would be hurting. I reckon most of them though would have long ago fallen in love with the oldest magic in the world, piles of cold hard cash.

[CigarDoug]

On 5/8/2018 at 2:38 AM, ken2esq said:

This issue has been bugging me since the end of season 2.  Quentin and the gang are soooo devastated by the loss of magic, and are desperate to restore it, and find some quest that might just accomplish that, and are risking their lives to do it.  I get that.  That makes sense.

What does not make sense is that apparently Brakebills and possibly other magic schools have been around forever, or at least for centuries, churning out class after class after class of magicians.  Plus there are all the hedge witches like Julia.  So far, when Q and the gang meet any of these other magicians, the writers have written all of these others as if they have simply written off magic forever.  Sure, they may be very upset or depressed (e.g., Alice's mother turns to booze), but really?  None of those thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands are actively trying to restore magic, too?  These people who have lived with it far, far longer than Q and the gang?  Does that seem totally unrealistic?

I had the same problem with the Harry Potter movies (and I don't imagine the books were that different). There is this powerful magician, who is out to murder school children who are the next generation of magicians. There is NO ONE in the magical community who steps up and says, "Hey, wait, we can't let these children fight this big bad guy on their own"? It would be different if the young heroes some evil magic that no one else knew about, and felt they had to face it alone because no adults would believe it. Everyone in the magic realm knows who Voldemort is.  Yes, it adds an air of mystique for him to be so powerful people don't want to speak his name. But at what point do the grownups in this world say, "He shall not be named is coming to take over whether we speak his name or not. Maybe we should be fighting him too, instead of letting inexperienced children do it."

[Kyanight]

3 hours ago, CigarDoug said:

I had the same problem with the Harry Potter movies (and I don't imagine the books were that different). There is this powerful magician, who is out to murder school children who are the next generation of magicians. There is NO ONE in the magical community who steps up and says, "Hey, wait, we can't let these children fight this big bad guy on their own"? It would be different if the young heroes some evil magic that no one else knew about, and felt they had to face it alone because no adults would believe it. Everyone in the magic realm knows who Voldemort is.  Yes, it adds an air of mystique for him to be so powerful people don't want to speak his name. But at what point do the grownups in this world say, "He shall not be named is coming to take over whether we speak his name or not. Maybe we should be fighting him too, instead of letting inexperienced children do it."

They did.  Dumbledore founded the Order of the Phoenix.   "The Order of the Phoenix is a secret organization in the Harry Potter series of fiction books written by J. K. Rowling, founded by Albus Dumbledore to fight Lord Voldemort and his followers, the Death Eaters."    Even before Harry was born many adults went up against him and died or ended up losing their minds, as in the case of Neville's mum and dad.   He was just too powerful, and as we found out later, Harry was the only one who could defeat him.   I know what you are saying, but I definitely see a difference between the situation in "The Magicians" versus "Harry Potter".  In the Magicians it seems as if NO one else is trying to bring back magic except the students - and it's not like they are facing a very powerful force that is trying to kill any who defy him. (In regards to bringing back magic.)   Also - in Harry Potter, Voldemort and his cronies had no issues whatsoever with killing infants and children.  If the parents knew he was almost impossible to defeat and he would target their children along with themselves, many MANY parents would choose to hide and avoid confrontation.  In the Magicians, children don't exist in that world, unless they are grown.  Seriously - have you ever seen a single child, other than in Fillory?  Ok, that last part was tongue-in-cheek since we certainly would ASSUME that children are around...just out of site when the cast is out in public on the streets.  And for the record, I am glad there aren't kids in this series since writers always have to make them stereotypical ill-behaved brats/whiney.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Kyanight

[Jynnan tonnix]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:29 PM, diebartdie said:

If they were the 1% of the 1%, it wouldn't matter if they had magic or not, they would have lives of ease. Think Jeff Bezos, a man who "earns" $52 MILLION A DAY. Amazon could disappear tomorrow and Bezos would still be ultramegadisgustingly rich. Same with any magician who had loads of non-magical money. Those that just had these fantastical lives built purely on magic with no real resources, well then yeah, they would be hurting. I reckon most of them though would have long ago fallen in love with the oldest magic in the world, piles of cold hard cash.

Maybe...but I would imagine that for many, money would eventually become sort of redundant. Look at Alice's parents - they magicked themselves a very sweet lifestyle in a house which had evidently been hidden from the need for mundane things such as mortgage, taxes, upkeep, etc for years while throwing lavish orgies (or whatever exactly those parties of theirs were). The only people we have seen with what looks like real money are those like the McAllistairs who have their own agendas.

[Melissa56789]

I have a continuity (possible retcon) question regarding Penny (it goes for both Penny23 and Penny40.

What happened to the voices in his head?  

When magic was turned off - (episode 3 season 3) he noted that it wasn't that bad because the radio was off.

But when magic came back...even throttled by the library - shouldn't he have voices in his head again?

Yes - there was that "patch" that blocked psychic interference...but it never turned off the radio completely for Penny.

Just curious if that is an oversight by the writers - or I missed something entirely.

[Melissa56789]

On 3/1/2019 at 1:19 PM, Melissa56789 said:

have a continuity (possible retcon) question regarding Penny (it goes for both Penny23 and Penny40.

What happened to the voices in his head?  

When magic was turned off - (episode 3 season 3) he noted that it wasn't that bad because the radio was off.

But when magic came back...even throttled by the library - shouldn't he have voices in his head again?

Yes - there was that "patch" that blocked psychic interference...but it never turned off the radio completely for Penny.

Just curious if that is an oversight by the writers - or I missed something entirely.

Episode 8 of season 4 - Penny 23 finally displays the ability to sort of read Poppy's thoughts thru her wards....so that is at least something.  :-)