S06.E04: Mr. And Mrs. Teacup

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

However, Elizabeth isn't an American and lacks the habit to say things swiftly and automatically only because it's civil to say them. Just because a person says something, doesn't mean that she really means it.  

The scene happened in the middle of the night, Elizabeth was dead tired and (most importantly) Henry wasn't present, so her words could have showed rather that she was disappointed that Philip had failed to handle things that he had promised to do. 

I really think everything else in context strongly says the opposite. She expressed no disappointment, only disinterest. (And it's not the first time this season her habit of speaking the truth led to her expressing that same disinterest or disconnect.) I don't think this is supposed to be out of coldness toward Henry. I think her trying to have a conversation with Philip at all comes from her missing feeling connected to him at least, and Henry and Philip are linked in that. But she doesn't seem able to feel connected to Henry (who's completely American and far removed from her life) any more than Stan was able to feel connected to Sandra and Matthew in season 1. It's not that she doesn't care about him, but she seems completely estranged from him as a person or even as a concept of a son.

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

All in all, I think it's decisive how Elizabeth behaves with Henry. If there are no scenes between them, the writers have given Elizabeth the role of the traditional father concentrating only on the work whereas Philip has been given the role of the traditional mother who is the nurturer inside the family.

But first, that's a new thing--Elizabeth in the past obviously thought parenting required nurturing by her and worried over this stuff.

But also this very scene shows that that's not what's going on because Philip is also the one taking on the traditional father role since he's the guy paying tuition. Elizabeth's work is unrelated to the family and always has been--she's always seen the two things in conflict. That was most explicit in season 1 and now it's back. She's continued parenting Paige by calling it "training" and making it part of her spy work. (She's just not actually handling her like a real recruit.)

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think that, however happy and relaxed Philip seems in linedancing, his failure in business shows that he also longs for work that isn't done just for earning more money but has a deeper meaning.    

Absolutely. I think both of them are finding that when they choose only one thing or the other they're empty. Elizabeth's more obviously robotic and dead inside, but I think Philip in his own way is just as lost and he's certainly not very happy if he's happy at all. Him cutting himself completely from wanting to make a positive difference in the word isn't any more natural than Elizabeth cutting herself off from the domestic side of her life. They're both telling themselves they don't want those other things but that's never been the way the partnership worked or the way they work.

Edited October 20, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

52 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Absolutely. I think both of them are finding that when they choose only one thing or the other they're empty. Elizabeth's more obviously robotic and dead inside, but I think Philip in his own way is just as lost and he's certainly not very happy if he's happy at all. Him cutting himself completely from wanting to make a positive difference in the word isn't any more natural than Elizabeth cutting herself off from the domestic side of her life. They're both telling themselves they don't want those other things but that's never been the way the partnership worked or the way they work.

Except, Philip isn't really allowed to step out of the KGB box and even TRY to be himself, do something he would enjoy, say teach, or coach Hockey, or any of hundreds of other jobs he might want.

He still must maintain their KGB cover, the Travel Agency.  Yes, he made (common) mistakes, expanding too fast for example, but that doesn't make him a failure as a businessman or capitalist or mean that he would fail in anything else.  He's still trapped by Elizabeth's choices.

I think Philip, with his people skills, could succeed in several other US jobs, and be happy.  He has never had that choice, which is part of the reason he wants his children, both Paige and Henry, to have the freedom of choices.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

40 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Except, Philip isn't really allowed to step out of the KGB box and even TRY to be himself, do something he would enjoy, say teach, or coach Hockey, or any of hundreds of other jobs he might want.

Realized my answer to this would cover more eps past this one so putting it in the Philip thread.

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Realized my answer to this would cover more eps past this one so putting it in the Philip thread.

Yeah, but in this episode specifically, showing Philip unhappy and stressed?  HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH capitalism or the United States or him giving up the KGB.  Simply because he has not been allowed to really give up the KGB at all, or to even thinking about exploring what jobs he might love and excel doing.

It's a false narrative to say he's not fulfilled if he isn't doing KGB work.

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yeah, but in this episode specifically, showing Philip unhappy and stressed?  HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH capitalism or the United States or him giving up the KGB.  Simply because he has not been allowed to really give up the KGB at all, or to even thinking about exploring what jobs he might love and excel doing.

It's a false narrative to say he's not fulfilled if he isn't doing KGB work.

I agree. The show isn't saying he's not fulfilled because he's not doing KGB work specifically. In this episode specifically I think he's dealing with the stress of his business going badly, and even a person who was totally fulfilled running a successful travel agency would be stressed if it was facing bankruptcy. But I think that in the context of the whole series, even up to this point, Philip's not that guy. He hasn't explored what jobs he might love or excel at doing and found this one.

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I agree. The show isn't saying he's not fulfilled because he's not doing KGB work specifically. In this episode specifically I think he's dealing with the stress of his business going badly, and even a person who was totally fulfilled running a successful travel agency would be stressed if it was facing bankruptcy. But I think that in the context of the whole series, even up to this point, Philip's not that guy. He hasn't explored what jobs he might love or excel at doing and found this one.

Oh I think they did try to do just that, and many fell for it.

He has never been ALLOWED to pursue other jobs.  Elizabeth still has to pretend to work at the Travel Agency, it's still her cover.  Philip isn't really out of the KGB, since he must do that part of Elizabeth's job, and cover for her.

Philip had no options, only Elizabeth made rules for "them."

[Roseanna]

On ‎20‎.‎10‎.‎2018 at 9:16 PM, Umbelina said:

Except, Philip isn't really allowed to step out of the KGB box and even TRY to be himself, do something he would enjoy, say teach, or coach Hockey, or any of hundreds of other jobs he might want.

He still must maintain their KGB cover, the Travel Agency.  Yes, he made (common) mistakes, expanding too fast for example, but that doesn't make him a failure as a businessman or capitalist or mean that he would fail in anything else.  He's still trapped by Elizabeth's choices.

I think Philip, with his people skills, could succeed in several other US jobs, and be happy.  He has never had that choice, which is part of the reason he wants his children, both Paige and Henry, to have the freedom of choices.

I agree with you about Philip having no chance to chose his work and that he could succeed in many jobs.

However, I find it quite unacceptable that Henry (or any child) can't have a good education if parents can't afford it. To me it's not a Socialist idea at all, but a small country can't waste any talented person.

[sistermagpie]

12 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I agree with you about Philip having no chance to chose his work and that he could succeed in many jobs.

However, I find it quite unacceptable that Henry (or any child) can't have a good education if parents can't afford it. To me it's not a Socialist idea at all, but a small country can't waste any talented person.

Henry would have gotten a fine education at his public school. The school he's at has certain advantages, and Henry himself fixated on these advantages, but it's not like there's any reason to think that he couldn't have gotten into Harvard, for instance, from the Falls Church public school system. There are public schools in the US that are not providing the education every child should get, but no reason to think Henry's school was one of them. 

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Henry would have gotten a fine education at his public school. The school he's at has certain advantages, and Henry himself fixated on these advantages, but it's not like there's any reason to think that he couldn't have gotten into Harvard, for instance, from the Falls Church public school system. There are public schools in the US that are not providing the education every child should get, but no reason to think Henry's school was one of them. 

Thank you for the clarification.

[Umbelina]

I also think Henry instinctively wanted to get out of that house.

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I also think Henry instinctively wanted to get out of that house.

I agree. He got to the age when Paige started to see something off and dealt with it by getting to higher ground. He didn't want to analyze it or get into it. The main point of Henry's whole school story, imo, is to show how completely independent he is despite not being fully adult so when the ship goes down, he's not only already in a life raft, he's being hauled into a passing cruise ship.