S01.E05: Vincemas

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Vince and Matthew are excited to bond with Michael on their annual camping trip and the Champions staff are excited to celebrate Vince's absence with a secret party they call Vincemas.

[iMonrey]

How dumb were they to have the party right there in the gym? Couldn't they have had it at one of their houses?

I'm glad to see that Michael is becoming a somewhat more reasonable/human character and didn't just go along with the kids clubbing. And that he and his father were able to compromise on the camping thing. Truth be told I wouldn't be into camping either. There have to be other ways to bond.

[SmithW6079]

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

How dumb were they to have the party right there in the gym? Couldn't they have had it at one of their houses?

I'm glad to see that Michael is becoming a somewhat more reasonable/human character and didn't just go along with the kids clubbing. And that he and his father were able to compromise on the camping thing. Truth be told I wouldn't be into camping either. There have to be other ways to bond.

Vince didn't just pull camping out of his ass. He explained that it was a family tradition, a way that he and his father had bonded. Michael was his usual bitchy, dismissive self.

And maybe that's why he doesn't have any friends. Maybe no one wants to hang out with a pretentious, condescending diva wannabe. Especially one from Ohio, when everyone else is from New York.

If this show lasts, they need to figure out Vince's character. The brother is pretty, but dumb. The gym characters are caricatures, but at least they're consistent. Vince was a popular jock in high school, no, he was an outsider. He was a free-wheeling semi-pro athlete, no, he's a no-fun hardass. He's promiscuous, no, he only started sleeping around when word got out he had a son. 

I hated how he got treated by the kids at school. 

Either way, this show still sucks. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by SmithW6079

[biakbiak]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

dumb were they to have the party right there in the gym? Couldn't they have had it at one of their houses?

But that was the point of the party to specifically do all the things he wouldn't let them do in the gym as a carthetic fuck you.

[Tosia]

The kid's nasal voice is killing me. 

Like the adult characters SOOOOO much more than snotty, unfunny kid;  the actor or writers are not making me care at all about him.  

[JasmineFlower]

Well, I think the most positive thing I can say at this point is that I think the show is getting better. So, while I'm not completely sure of why I'm still watching, it's becoming more entertaining and Michael is becoming a tad bit less annoying than he was those first few episodes when I wanted to just strangle him.

Felt confused by this episode on many fronts, but it was better in some ways too. Think it helped to show that Michael's problems are not tied up in Vince and being in a new place like he sometimes acts is the problem. We kind of knew that before, but this felt like it really introduced some new information unless I missed it before. He's 14 I think, and he's spent his entire life up until now in Ohio, and he has no friends there? Say what?

But color me surprised that he was not into the clubbing with the popular Indian kids idea. They were going to be dancing to music in fashionable clothes. I don't exactly get the writing here because from everything they've showed us, that feels like it would be a more positive and fun experience for Michael. This group cares about what they are wearing, likes music and dancing. It's not theatre music and dancing on stage, but I didn't get Michael's reluctance. If it was about drinking, he could go clubbing sober. If they had said he was uncomfortable with the money or sneaking out when talking to Vince, then I'd have gotten it more, but that didn't seem to be the issue.

Maybe it's just me, I sometimes had this problem with her on Mindy Project too, but a little Fortune Feimster (Ruby) goes a long way. I'd be completely on board with the supporting character distribution shifting greatly with less Ruby and more from actors Yassir Lester and Ginger Gonzaga. I think both of them have been shown to be some of the funnier characters on here, but especially in the case of Yassir, is being under utilized. I laugh way more at their like 5-10 lines than anything that Ruby says in her multiple scenes.

[possibilities]

On 4/13/2018 at 12:44 PM, iMonrey said:

How dumb were they to have the party right there in the gym? Couldn't they have had it at one of their houses?

I'm glad to see that Michael is becoming a somewhat more reasonable/human character and didn't just go along with the kids clubbing. And that he and his father were able to compromise on the camping thing. Truth be told I wouldn't be into camping either. There have to be other ways to bond.

I'm sure none of them have a house. The brothers who OWN the gym share an apartment. The staff probably all have TINY apartments. NYC rents are insane. But also, I get the feeling they are only "work friends" and wouldn't want to bring what was a work-related catharsis event into their homes, where they may also have family or roommates who don't share their need to vent about the job, and wouldn't really get the inside jokes. And the brothers never seemed to come home early after many years of taking the trip, so it probably didn't seem like that much of a risk.

Michael has been kind of squeamish about "lawless" behavior two weeks in a row. It surprises me, but I think it's one of the more interesting and unexpected things about him.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

. It surprises me, but I think it's one of the more interesting and unexpected things about him.

Yeah I think the writers might be going for the idea that he is putting on this facade of what he thinks is a sophisticate but when it comes down to it he is a sheltered kid lonely kd raised in Cleveland so hasn't actually been exposed to much.

[SmithW6079]

4 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Yeah I think the writers might be going for the idea that he is putting on this facade of what he thinks is a sophisticate but when it comes down to it he is a sheltered kid lonely kd raised in Cleveland so hasn't actually been exposed to much.

I think something that nuanced is giving the writers too much credit.

[Couver]

On 4/14/2018 at 6:28 PM, biakbiak said:

Yeah I think the writers might be going for the idea that he is putting on this facade of what he thinks is a sophisticate but when it comes down to it he is a sheltered kid lonely kd raised in Cleveland so hasn't actually been exposed to much.

This is my impression as well. It makes sense that a 14 year old trying to find himself would have some or a lot of put on behaviors. I also think we're supposed to see Michael and Vince change based on their exposure to each other. I just think the show could have done this more quickly. Right now it is a slow build and I don't think that works for a sitcom like this. I do like that Michael is improving in how he treats other people though. That was probably my favorite part of this episode. He wasn't rude to anyone. Maybe Vince but Vince had it come with some of his cultural insensitivity.

Agree with those saying Vince's character is the most all over the place. I thought what they set down in episode 1 made sense. But then they changed it a lot in subsequent episodes.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Couver

[Guest]

I'm having trouble finding Michael believable still.  He likes being outrageous in nearly any setting but then acts like a shy bumpkin when it suits the story?  I think the kid that could be all 'screw you, new dad, I'm not picking up my towel' would be able to tell his new Indian friends 'I'll pass on the booze, thanks.'  

Did they ever have a line explaining the 'clubbing' lines, with high schoolers?  These kids look 15, they're not getting in any NYC clubs, parents' credit cards or not. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Vince didn't just pull camping out of his ass. He explained that it was a family tradition, a way that he and his father had bonded. Michael was his usual bitchy, dismissive self.

I think that's a little harsh. Not every kid is into camping, tradition or not. What if Vince had a daughter? Would he expect her to like roughing it outdoors, sleeping on the ground, going fishing, etc.? What if she simply wasn't into that type of thing? How is it different just because Michael is a boy? He's supposed to suck it up and do it anyway because that's the only way his father knows how to bond? That's not bonding. Bonding is finding something they both enjoy. 

[Guest]

That Vince didn’t assume Michael would hate the idea of camping is kind of stupid. He’s met Michael.  

[SmithW6079]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think that's a little harsh. Not every kid is into camping, tradition or not. What if Vince had a daughter? Would he expect her to like roughing it outdoors, sleeping on the ground, going fishing, etc.? What if she simply wasn't into that type of thing? How is it different just because Michael is a boy? He's supposed to suck it up and do it anyway because that's the only way his father knows how to bond? That's not bonding. Bonding is finding something they both enjoy. 

Are you suggesting that girls can't like roughing it outdoors, sleeping on the ground, going fishing, etc.?

Vince was sharing something that was important to him; Michael dismissed it out of hand, so no, I don't think I'm being harsh.

[biakbiak]

4 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

Michael dismissed it out of hand, so no, I don't think I'm being harsh.

But he didn't. He was going to go, all be it reluctantly until he thought Vince was being racist by not wanting him to hangout with the Indian kids.

[possibilities]

On 4/17/2018 at 3:38 PM, iMonrey said:

What if Vince had a daughter? Would he expect her to like roughing it outdoors, sleeping on the ground, going fishing, etc.?

I bet he would have. Why not?

I think it was obvious that Michael wasn't a "roughing it" kind of person, but Dad and Uncle wanted to share something special to the family, so they let their enthusiasm take over and figured they'd expand the kid's horizons, and Michael, like many a kid before him, was reluctantly going along with it, because that's what you do. You give it a try.

They've dialed the spoiled brat element way back, which I'm grateful for. The adults have been growing, too, and becoming less like spoiled self-absorbed teens themselves.

None of this growth has really been explained that much, it's happening awfully fast actually. But I find it less annoying to watch people get a clue than to watch them be horrible, so I'm going with it.

[Couver]

On 4/17/2018 at 12:38 PM, iMonrey said:

I think that's a little harsh. Not every kid is into camping, tradition or not. What if Vince had a daughter? Would he expect her to like roughing it outdoors, sleeping on the ground, going fishing, etc.? What if she simply wasn't into that type of thing? How is it different just because Michael is a boy? He's supposed to suck it up and do it anyway because that's the only way his father knows how to bond? That's not bonding. Bonding is finding something they both enjoy. 

Which I think the episode did well to get to at the end. They still went 'camping' but they added Bollywood films to it. So a new tradition that includes everyone. The heart to heart Michael and Vince had on the couch about finding a middle ground was also good.

That is what I'm hoping we see more of with the show. Funny bonding moments.

[wayne67]

I'm getting tired of all the straight white man digs, it's not clever or funny and the gay kid is mostly obnoxious and unbearable.