S04.E04: Black As His Purpose Did The Night Resemble

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

A total blackout in London sparks chaos. Willow’s feelings for Robert grow stronger. Eleanor opens the palace to the public and Jasper finds himself in the middle of a riot.

 

 

[Locutus]

Robert has turned out to be just what the series needed at this point. The audience knows he's an evil master manipulator, yet all the characters (save Liam and Cyrus perhaps) believe him to be saintly. And the introduction of Jasper's father, the Italian Count, is sure to be fun, especially if it means more Duchess "Alexis". 

[Misstiny111]

This episode was so much fun. Watching Eleanor being on charge and working with the Badass Team was amazing, and I felt super proud of her that she finally settled down and it's now playing her role as a princess.

As we know, Robert created the blackout, and clearly wanted to use it to gain the people's favor. I don't know if it's me being crazy or he just did it so well I ended up loving his move. I actually saw how a plan can actually go extremely well.

Willow finally has decided to speak the truth and tell Robert she wanted to be on the list, and I can't be more happy. Althought I'm a little worried that everything good it's happening in the beginning and I know that from now on it will only start to get ugly.

[emjohnson03]

Robert is one master manipulator and I'm all in. I think he's the most fascinating character right now because you don't know how good or bad he is. There's soft moments and then there's those moments he's pretty all evil.

The music was also very good!

Still here for Willow and Robert so I gotta ride it out and see what goes down. It's probably gonna make me throw the remote at some point but ugh, they have great chemistry together and I hope it becomes something more than used. 

[phoenics]

Well I thought I was out - but I'm in. 

Long live King Robert.

I'm so glad they've dropped that stupid "Robert killed dad" storyline (I hope - I'm hanging on by a thread about that).

I know I'm supposed to be mad and angry that a diabolical Robert pulled this stunt, but I'm not.  Any chance to see Max Brown act Kingly I eat up with a spoon.  It never resonated quite right with Liam being all earnest - it's awesome to see Robert do it and not be sure if he's sincere or not because Max Brown is just a powerhouse actor.  I'm perfectly okay with the show NEVER revealing this, lol.  Totally unrealistic but whew...  How can he be machinating right in front of my face and I still don't give a flying fig and melt when he gives grand speeches and has tender moments with Len and his mom?

I've ... never reacted to a "villain" this way.  Why can't he be the Chuck Bass to Liam's Dan Humphrey?

My only sadness is that the show probably won't have a 5th season so if they "bring down Robert" that'll just be the end and at this point I'd literally watch a spinoff of Max Brown machinating in prison to take control of it, lol.      

Robert x Willow - OMG I screamed "Noooo!" when their kiss was interrupted.  I think I have an unhealthy crush on Max Brown.  

I just can't make myself care about Liam.  I feel halfway bad about that but I just don't care.  I hope Katherine comes back with HIS baby and takes him away somewhere.  Not Robert's - I want him for Willow.

If Jasper doesn't immediately out his con of a father, then he deserves everything Robert throws at him.  It's completely stupid if he remains silent.  Just out the man and if Duchy still wants him, so be it.  Jasper's dad is skeevy as hell though.

I do think that Eleanor is going to eventually end up Queen.   

OMG I just realized who Robert reminds me of and why I love him for all of his devious glory and charm - JR Ewing!  Like a young, dapper, british royalty version of JR Ewing. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by phoenics

[EarlGreyTea]

I nominate "Shut up, Scar" as the best line of the series. Making Joan Collins the villain a few seasons ago was such a stupid move. She was really good as a foil to Helena and as a doting grandmother to the twins. Speaking of, has she even acknowledged that Robert is alive? I hope they just kind of handwave the murder away (and it looks like they have) and keep her on.

I feel bad for William Moseley. He may not be the best actor ever, but we really don't know how he would be if given scenes against stronger actresses as his love interest and a decent storyline. Eleanor has Jasper and even Robert has Willow, both of whom give their counterparts something to work with. Moseley hasn't had a decent actress to play off since Ophelia. And he's been sidelined since Robert came back. I wonder if the writers have made Brown the lead because of his superior acting chops.

I liked Jasper's father more than Jasper. It's a bad sign when I like the person clearly designated to be the heel. Jasper is so whiny and woobie-ish. The dad is a prick, but an entertaining one.

That scene with Robert walking back to the palace with all his people was badass. For all that we may get Queen Eleanor, and for all the scenes they give Alexandra Park empathizing with her subjects, that one scene of Robert walking gave her a run for her money. Is it any wonder that Willow threw herself into his arms?

[emjohnson03]

8 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

 

That scene with Robert walking back to the palace with all his people was badass. For all that we may get Queen Eleanor, and for all the scenes they give Alexandra Park empathizing with her subjects, that one scene of Robert walking gave her a run for her money. Is it any wonder that Willow threw herself into his arms?

1,0000% agree. 

He has something that I think Liam is missing, not just his own physical attributes but his eyes have much more depth to them. You never quite know what's really going on in that head of his and yet, he has this softness and emotion in his eyes that betray the coldness he has in his veins. And this shows it exactly, he does something so devious and so awful by having the city black outs, and yet, he walks with such grace and elegance. 

And he really needs to have the love to help center him even more. And please let's hope he means it. Because if he doesn't....shucks!!!

[omgsowicked]

Oh, so that's what Robert was up to! I bet Jasper dying would have been the cherry on top of his covert political moves sundae, haha. So I guess that kiss means Eleanor and Jasper aren't a secret anymore? I'd actually like that... I mean, I still don't like them but at least maybe there won't be anymore star-crossed lovers stuff.

I like that Eleanor opened the palace to the people, and not for political gain like Robert but because she's become a good person. I'm enjoying shady King Robert but I'm here for Queen Eleanor in the end.

Robert's so interesting to watch... and I'm glad Willow told him how she feels! Maybe steer him in a less dastardly direction? :P Geez, I really hope he actually likes her. I'm interested to see if he opens up to her about some things, like his sleeping problems (unless that was resolved? I don't remember).

Nice twist with Cyrus' cancer being in remission. Of course he'd be pissed about it. I'm glad we won't be losing him, though, he's another fun character to watch.

So what's Liam gonna do now? He's not pursuing Robert and he has no boring love interest. I think even he realized he's got no purpose right now, lol.

[paisley]

I'm loving Max Brown's portrayal of Robert. There's a subtlety to it that is delicious, it just keeps me wanting more.

Very happy to see Joan Collins again ( her calling Cyrus "Scar" was everything), but Frost the Elder is gonna have to step it up past skeevy con man to play in her league. Jasper needs to out him immediately. It'll be interesting to see Robert's reaction to him after their past collusion.

Inappropriate bride candidate is back. I like her wrongness but I doubt Robert's little head is going to let her run any game on him. He has an objective in mind, he'll manage anything that gets in the way.

I wish Liam could  hook up with someone less insipid than his past choices. Maybe he could get with Robert's Inappropriate Bride Candidate (IBC) and learn a few things. I don't need to see Kathryn or Ophelia ever again.

The Bad Ass Quartet was fun and got things done. Also liked Eleanor and Willow interacting. Perhaps they could even have a scene that passes the Bechtel Test.

I just let it go that as large as London is people managed to find Jasper's ambulance in the middle of a blackout and civil insurrection. I enjoy the ridiculousness of this show so much.

[Kaiju Ballet]

20 hours ago, emjohnson03 said:

He's the most fascinating character right now because you don't know how good or bad he is. There's soft moments and then there's those moments he's pretty all evil.

Totally agree. I loved his courtship of Willow, and her falling for him after seeing the thoughtful gestures he made. And then, of course, after seeing Helena Junior hit it off with him.

I really like the person that Eleanor is becoming. But for me, that makes it glaringly obvious how Jasper’s all wrong for her. In contrast, Sebastian is the one who’s always encouraged her to explore her potential, and be more than what everyone now expects. She’s a long way from the partying, drugged out rebel without a crown that we met at the beginning of the series. Isn’t Sebastian also a prince? And yet he was there, djing at the hospital party and putting up with Jasper’s BS. I guess I should resign myself to Jaspenor as endgame. Or maybe that’s another reason to root for Robert, who is turning out to truly be the Queen’s son, if he does succeed in getting rid of him.

Brilliant that Liam would turn out to be the “Scar”(ha!) /Cyrus to Robert’s Mufasa/ King Simon. Liam’s character has really been ravaged, hasn’t it? I was distracted by the really prominent veins on his arms—the way they’ve been writing his character, he might as well be green and run around going "Liam SMASH!" I call bullshit on the Palace leaving the decision up to Mr. Hill (whom I love) on what to do with Liam after he pulls a loaded gun on the king and queen.

It also took me way too long to figure out it was Greta and not Katheryn that he visited (did they use the same apt?)

And ewwww on Robert spying on his mother having sex. And making that his new screensaver, apparently. 

That being said, I really did enjoy this episode and I’m hoping that there is another season or two.

[phoenics]

"Shut up Scar!" had me ROLLING laughing.  That was such a perfect line and it stopped Cy in his tracks.

I've fully come to understand Robert as the British, Young and extremely HOT version of JR Ewing with a dash of Bobby Ewing earnestness.  But I also think he has "ideas" about how royalty is supposed to be.  I think that he himself is torn between wanting to be "good" and show that to his people - like he told Willow - and his baser instincts that make him connive to get whatever he wants.  My other theory is that he's trying to create this perfect "image" of a Royal and a Royal family - he's basically obsessed with that.  He didn't like Jasper because it didn't fit his perfect royal picture.  He didn't like Helena with "the help" because it didn't fit his perfect royal picture.  

I think Robert understands that what people see of the royals is just that - an image.  We don't know the "real" royals.  So he's trying to give the people a PERFECT image of himself as a royal... while also carrying out his agenda.  The blackout was basically his response to the Prime Minister disrespecting him - he had to show her what real power looked like and he used the people to do it (by getting them to fawn over him after his displays of "kingliness").

I think he likes being "kingly" like that and he likes the effect it has on people - especially Willow.  And speaking of Willow - he wants her because she FITS the perfect idea of what a Queen would be.  And he knows the people would love her as Queen.  What knocked Kathryn off was that she betrayed him and made him decide that she was "common" for sleeping with him and his brother.  Previously he had her on a pedestal - she's what got him off that island.  Once she betrayed him and lied to his face about it repeatedly he had to strip her of her saintly status.  Now Willow has it.  I'm wondering if Robert has a sinner/saint complex about women now.

I'm gonna need Willow to get her sass back though - Robert will literally run her over.  But if Willow can develop a backbone like Sue Ellen Ewing did, we might have something.

Based on the previews from next week: [/spoiler]He moves in on Willow, but ALSO seems to be moving in on QueenSkank.  Usually men like Robert don't just cheat for the sake of cheating - so my thought is that he has a reason why he's calling QueenSkank.  I hope it's not just to cheat - I just hope it's more that he wants something else and doesn't mind using sex or having sex with her to get it.[/spoiler]

I do think Robert is exactly what this show needs and I don't feel sorry for William Moseley at all - his character has been floundering since the end of S2. After he found his father's murderer, it's like the show didn't know what to do with him unless he was hunting someone else again. But pitting him against Robert just makes him look outgunned, outmatched and outclassed.  I think after the show let Ophelia go, Liam lost his purpose.  The show used Ted to give him something to do for S2, but after that they ran out of ideas and brought Robert back.  And Max Brown just took Robert to such a level that he's literally driving the show right now - love him or hate him, twitter/insta can NOT stop talking about him.

They need to find another purpose for him - what he needs to do is stop trying to topple his brother - or maybe in the midst of that they need to have another major threat come up against the whole family they can fight together.

I do think the show is gearing up for a "Who Shot King Robert?" storyline (just like Who Shot JR) - if the show was smart, they'd make it some kind of shadowy organization that forces the family to all come together to fight it.  Because they wouldn't just stop at Robert - they want to destroy the whole family.

The show made a mistake killing the Domino storyline so fast - they should have broadened it and made it deeper and more insidious.

[EarlGreyTea]

14 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

Totally agree. I loved his courtship of Willow, and her falling for him after seeing the thoughtful gestures he made. And then, of course, after seeing Helena Junior hit it off with him.

I really like the person that Eleanor is becoming. But for me, that makes it glaringly obvious how Jasper’s all wrong for her. In contrast, Sebastian is the one who’s always encouraged her to explore her potential, and be more than what everyone now expects. She’s a long way from the partying, drugged out rebel without a crown that we met at the beginning of the series. Isn’t Sebastian also a prince? And yet he was there, djing at the hospital party and putting up with Jasper’s BS. I guess I should resign myself to Jaspenor as endgame. Or maybe that’s another reason to root for Robert, who is turning out to truly be the Queen’s son, if he does succeed in getting rid of him.

Brilliant that Liam would turn out to be the “Scar”(ha!) /Cyrus to Robert’s Mufasa/ King Simon. Liam’s character has really been ravaged, hasn’t it? I was distracted by the really prominent veins on his arms—the way they’ve been writing his character, he might as well be green and run around going "Liam SMASH!" I call bullshit on the Palace leaving the decision up to Mr. Hill (whom I love) on what to do with Liam after he pulls a loaded gun on the king and queen.

It also took me way too long to figure out it was Greta and not Katheryn that he visited (did they use the same apt?)

And ewwww on Robert spying on his mother having sex. And making that his new screensaver, apparently. 

That being said, I really did enjoy this episode and I’m hoping that there is another season or two.

They really have no idea what to do with Liam. His entire characterization and reason for existing since season one was filling Robert's shoes. All of it - the King Liam hashtag, the romance with Ophelia, the cleaning up of his party image - was a direct result of losing Robert and then Simon. For all that Ophelia was disliked by the audience, her departure marked the last time Liam was relevant. The second  Robert showed up, Liam had no purpose and what's more, it was clear he resented that Robert was back.

They could make Liam interact more with commoners and try to become more royal, but that niche has been filled by Eleanor and also Robert to an extent. They could make him a villain a la Cyrus but again, that niche has been filled and would ring false with what we know about Liam. So all that is really left is to give him a meaty love interest but....they haven't. Every single one of his love interests has been a dud with the possible exception of Ophelia and maybe Willow, and she was a nonstarter from day one. Helena is in the same boat to an extent. Since they defanged her and tore the crown off her head, she's had fuck all to do.

AGREED about mixing up Greta and Kathryn. Legit spent a good 5 minutes trying to figure out who she was.

Edited April 4, 2018 by EarlGreyTea

[phoenics]

6 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

They really have no idea what to do with Liam. His entire characterization and reason for existing since season one was filling Robert's shoes. All of it - the King Liam hashtag, the romance with Ophelia, the cleaning up of his party image - was a direct result of losing Robert and then Simon. For all that Ophelia was disliked by the audience, her departure marked the last time Liam was relevant. The second  Robert showed up, Liam had no purpose and what's more, it was clear he resented that Robert was back.

They could make Liam interact more with commoners and try to become more royal, but that niche has been filled by Eleanor and also Robert to an extent. They could make him a villain a la Cyrus but again, that niche has been filled and would ring false with what we know about Liam. So all that is really left is to give him a meaty love interest but....they haven't. Every single one of his love interests has been a dud with the possible exception of Ophelia and maybe Willow, and she was a nonstarter from day one. Helena is in the same boat to an extent. Since they defanged her and tore the crown off her head, she's had fuck all to do.

This is why I still worry that the back half of the season is going to be all about Liam gaining some kind of upper hand and "taking Robert down" for real.  Like, some evidence will fall into his lap and then he'll just "do the right thing" with it and take Robert out.  The clues for this are that Robert is shown openly machinating/devious and Liam is slowly pulling back from the brink.  My issue is that Liam hasn't shown enough growth - he "pretended" to grow last season and let this vendetta go but then it picked it up again.  It's like he's in a loop.

I don't want to see that.  Again and again.

Also - it's a cheap way to give Liam the "win" and elevate him.  He gets the crown because Robert's a douche?  Liam isn't Kingly - he hasn't been since S2.  You know what was awful in S3?  When Liam repeated Cyrus' line about seeing who a man really is when he's in danger of losing?  I was like seriously, Liam?  Cyrus MURDERED a man and has engaged in every kind of scheme known to man.  And Liam thought he was a good man to quote on what good men do?  WTF.

I'm okay with a scheming King (Cy lowered the bar) - plus Helena was a scheming Queen.  Straight rod Simon left his son playing chess outside in the pouring rain, RAISED him to be who he is and then bashed him to his face.  I'll take Robert any day.

I just watched how Liam acted when Robert came back.  Liam legit thought that Helena was going to agree to let HIM ascend the throne over Robert - who was the rightful heir.  And that was the least offensive thing he did - but it was really, really selfish and delusional.  I couldn't believe it was even a plot point.  Liam's demeanor, dialogue and characterization screams "child".  He's been on that tip since then.  When it was him and Eleanor, etc., and other characters there to help out (usually women), he didn't stand out too badly.  Think about it - even with the Ted Price situation - he only had one real scene with Ted during this where they were directly pitted as adversaries.  And even in that when he pulled the gun, he looked like a child.  Since Robert has shown up - he's become even more childlike and it's glaring.

I do feel like we're on a runaway train to Robert's downfall and Liam's (undeserved and underwhelming) redemption, but I just can't get off.

[EarlGreyTea]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

I do think Robert is exactly what this show needs and I don't feel sorry for William Moseley at all - his character has been floundering since the end of S2. After he found his father's murderer, it's like the show didn't know what to do with him unless he was hunting someone else again. But pitting him against Robert just makes him look outgunned, outmatched and outclassed.  I think after the show let Ophelia go, Liam lost his purpose.  The show used Ted to give him something to do for S2, but after that they ran out of ideas and brought Robert back.  And Max Brown just took Robert to such a level that he's literally driving the show right now - love him or hate him, twitter/insta can NOT stop talking about him.

Agreed on this. I haven't checked Twitter reactions since last season, but even then Robert was being talked about constantly, both positively and negatively. He brought a buzz to a show that had been floundering in a murder mystery for far too long. His character was the entire catalyst for the show in season one, and bringing the golden boy back was intriguing. I loved seeing how the sibling dynamic shifted (although we've seen precious little of it since) and how clearly Helena favors him over the other two.

I probably won't tune out once Robert turns full heel, because I'll be hoping his affection for Willow will be his only redeeming quality. But if they kill him off and we're dragged into a murder mystery again, I'm done.

[paisley]

I would be so disappointed if the writers did a "Who Shot J.R.?" with Robert. Some of us have been there already and no version of it will work for me in 2018. I like the ambiguity in Robert's story thus far, yeah he looks shady af but exactly how shady is he? Most of the crap he supposedly has done can be easily explained away. I think a lot is dependent on what's done behind the scenes with writing staff if they go for another season.

What I can't figure out is what they are going to do with Liam. Can he be evolved from big, whiny baby to manly man in the time left in this season? Why is he the sad sack he is now? Maybe he needs to go on a journey of self discovery like his siblings.

Enjoying the conversation in this forum.

[phoenics]

9 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

Agreed on this. I haven't checked Twitter reactions since last season, but even then Robert was being talked about constantly, both positively and negatively. He brought a buzz to a show that had been floundering in a murder mystery for far too long. His character was the entire catalyst for the show in season one, and bringing the golden boy back was intriguing. I loved seeing how the sibling dynamic shifted (although we've seen precious little of it since) and how clearly Helena favors him over the other two.

I probably won't tune out once Robert turns full heel, because I'll be hoping his affection for Willow will be his only redeeming quality. But if they kill him off and we're dragged into a murder mystery again, I'm done.

They won't kill Robert.  JR didn't die - neither will he.

[Misstiny111]

On 3/4/2018 at 11:13 PM, paisley said:

I would be so disappointed if the writers did a "Who Shot J.R.?" with Robert. Some of us have been there already and no version of it will work for me in 2018. I like the ambiguity in Robert's story thus far, yeah he looks shady af but exactly how shady is he? Most of the crap he supposedly has done can be easily explained away. I think a lot is dependent on what's done behind the scenes with writing staff if they go for another season.

What I can't figure out is what they are going to do with Liam. Can he be evolved from big, whiny baby to manly man in the time left in this season? Why is he the sad sack he is now? Maybe he needs to go on a journey of self discovery like his siblings.

Enjoying the conversation in this forum.

God, you're right! Eleanor and Robert had a self discovery trip (Robert's wasn't planned, but). After Eleanor's, she has become a really cool character. Maybe you're right and that's what Liam needs.