Spartan Girl January 9, 2015 Share January 9, 2015 Honestly, that bigot's whole family seemed like one big shit heap: the dad for being an abusive jerk, the mom for cheating and yet not even having the guts to take the kids and leave the abusive jerk...honestly, for all that the big seemed to "idealize" his mother he seemed to think it was acceptable for his dad to beat her up because "couldn't do it to the Jew." Poor Claire (Bigot's daughter) probably would have to spend the rest of her life in therapy. Link to comment
WendyCR72 January 9, 2015 Author Share January 9, 2015 Honestly, that bigot's whole family seemed like one big shit heap: the dad for being an abusive jerk, the mom for cheating and yet not even having the guts to take the kids and leave the abusive jerk...honestly, for all that the big seemed to "idealize" his mother he seemed to think it was acceptable for his dad to beat her up because "couldn't do it to the Jew." That whole bigot family was creepy. It made Goren's almost look sort of like Leave It To Beaver which, in itself, is no small feat considering how fucked up his family life turned out to be. Onward with tonight's ion marathon, though... Link to comment
Eolivet January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Hadn't seen "The Gift" in years, but I found it pretty strong on rewatch. I like the layer of humanity they added to Julian (Bobby Cannavale, full of sleazy charm), agreeing to a plea if Sylvia would get help. I also enjoyed how I went from thinking Sylvia was horrible for manipulating Susan (?) to really feeling for her at the end. And wow, the image of a mother leaving the trunk of the car open because her adult son is afraid of the dark, even in death, is quite powerful. I liked how the episode played against type in a couple of respects: the sleazy "priest" actually cared about his sick protege and the sleazy husband wasn't actually having an affair. Really good writing. 1 Link to comment
Maherjunkie January 12, 2015 Share January 12, 2015 Yes, though I wanted to smack Susan for being an idiot on so many levels. Bang Michael Nouri, be happy, and don't give in to hucksters! Link to comment
WendyCR72 January 12, 2015 Author Share January 12, 2015 As a whole, I think the first half of CI (S1-5) was better at the twists and turns, and "The Gift" is a great example. 1 Link to comment
Eolivet January 14, 2015 Share January 14, 2015 I don't know if Ion skipped these early S3 episodes or I just missed them on rewatch, but they're really strong. "But Not Forgotten" is another twisty one. Alicia Coppola is brilliant -- that whole scene at the end with her and her dirty cop husband as the sweet veneer falls away and we realize she knew all along about her first husband's criminal activities. For a while, the ep was looking just like that super creepy Mothership episode where the woman marries her stalker (who killed her first husband in an accident in Central Park). But the fact that Isobel wasn't entirely in the dark just elevated this episode. Fantastic denouement. I'm still a little fuzzy on what actually happened (mob cases always trip me up), but I do know is it was an extremely compelling story. 1 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 January 14, 2015 Author Share January 14, 2015 Oh, Alicia Coppola was great, I agree, @Eolivet! (And for the record, ion skipped a LOT of S2 and most of S3 [started with the Bishop stuff there] a couple weeks ago. Maybe it had something to do with the move to Friday, although I've no idea why.) But yeah..."But Not Forgotten" was cool. The "played" wife playing her dirty cop hubby all along was a brilliant move. To answer your question, though, all I recall was the first hubby was a hitman who was (per the wife) trying to get out. And I think hubby #2 killed hubby #1 to have Isobel. 1 Link to comment
Eolivet January 14, 2015 Share January 14, 2015 Yeah, I figured as much -- either he killed Hubby #1 to have Isobel or on orders from the mob because Hubby #1 screwed up and killed the wrong lawyer who spoke out against the mob boss? But why Earl/Hubby #2 killed Freida is still fuzzy to me...because she was looking into Hubby #1's bad tax returns? I still don't see how Freida would've found out anything about Hubby #2 from that, or why Freida would've been a threat to him or why the non-existent companies would implicate him somehow. But I had to watch "The Torrents of Greed" seven times (I counted) on the Mothership before I got all the connections. And how the Chinese baby figured into it was a head-scratcher for me, as well. But hey, still a brilliant performance and smart writing (so smart, I couldn't follow it, LOL). 1 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum January 14, 2015 Share January 14, 2015 I watched "Stray," and I'm still scratching my head as to how the guy got the death penalty, but not Tamara, who was basically the one who set all of the murders in motion. She should've been just as accountable. Was it because she didn't actually touch the people who were killed? Also, even after watching her episodes all the way through again, I'm sorry, @WendyCR72, but I still don't see the alleged "being annoying" of Bishop. I mean, yeah, Samantha was definitely a bit stiff for her first couple of episodes, but I could definitely see her start to relax in her last few and come off at least a bit more natural. By the end, I could not only see that she'd gotten comfortable with Vincent, but that Bishop had gotten comfortable with Goren, and even he with her. I still was happy to see Eames come back, though I'm a bit confused as to how Kathryn came back so quickly when I'm almost positive that she should've gone on maternity leave. And NYC maternity leaves are, unless I'm wrong, four or more months long. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 January 15, 2015 Author Share January 15, 2015 And how the Chinese baby figured into it was a head-scratcher for me, as well. But hey, still a brilliant performance and smart writing (so smart, I couldn't follow it, LOL). The baby only figured in since Isobel told the officials about changing circumstances, but - I THINK - Isobel told the hubby that China had put a stop to it when it was Isobel. Probably getting ready to drop the bomb on hubby #2 and not wanting the kid with him. Like she said, "I wouldn't raise a dog with [him]!" I still was happy to see Eames come back, though I'm a bit confused as to how Kathryn came back so quickly when I'm almost positive that she should've gone on maternity leave. And NYC maternity leaves are, unless I'm wrong, four or more months long. All I can figure here is maybe KE and the show decided to have Eames come back sooner. Since most actors have trailers and such, maybe she took the baby to work with her with someone to look after him while she worked. (Just speccing!) 1 3 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 How did Isobel, at the end of everything, still get off for her part? Link to comment
WendyCR72 January 15, 2015 Author Share January 15, 2015 How did Isobel, at the end of everything, still get off for her part? I guess it's just like Carver derisively said, as immoral as Isobel's behavior was, what she did wasn't technically illegal, so she skated. And I recall she was going to testify against hubby #2. (Although with her checkered past, I'd think a good defense attorney would go after her with guns blazing, pun not intended!) 1 Link to comment
Eolivet January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 Wow, "Pravda" - another one I hadn't seen for a while. The writing for early season 3 was just so subtle and powerful. The scene with Bobby and Roy (Carl's dad) about Willie Mays and what an angry person he was...gave me chills. It was subtle, but it just made me remember something was off. And that wordless scene with Bobby examining the light and the closet and looking at the chair and getting down on his knees to look at the floor...and having it all come together in another incredible denouement was so compelling! I have no idea how they managed to break the first rule of writing so completely ("show, don't tell") as Bobby narrated the murder-suicide plot -- maybe it was the looks on Carl and Roy's faces, and the subtle shifting in both actors' expressions. It was just SO good. When Judd Hirsch becomes somewhat of an also-ran, that's saying something. And "How could you?" "How could you?" Chills, I tell you. Seriously great episode (even if I don't entirely get why it was named for the state paper in Russia). 1 Link to comment
Eolivet January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Another S3 episode I missed or only caught a little of the first time around: "Happy Family." My goodness, I don't know whether it was because they wrote these episodes with a much bigger Goren part to account for viewers' lack of familiarity with Bishop, but they're downright operatic. Another fantastic confrontation scene at the end -- another case with lots of twists and turns (slight points off for the viewers never actually hearing the victim tell the kids he was going to send them back to the orphanage). The sequence where the nanny convinces the older brother to empty his pockets was quite powerful...wow. Strong performances, very little stunt casting, lots of twists and turns (but not too many) -- the first half of S3 really put on a clinic in great storytelling. It was also interesting to see Goren try to play "the boss" or be in a more "senior" role. He wasn't exactly management material. 1 2 Link to comment
WendyCR72 January 18, 2015 Author Share January 18, 2015 It was also interesting to see Goren try to play "the boss" or be in a more "senior" role. He wasn't exactly management material. Definitely not, @Eolivet, but I do like that Bobby was self aware and knew it. That was consistent from beginning to end. He didn't seem bothered by it. There has to be followers for every leader. 1 Link to comment
Eolivet January 19, 2015 Share January 19, 2015 (edited) Finally watched the entire "Pas de Deux," which I always confused with "Folie a Deux" and kept wondering how this woman robbed banks while looking for her kidnapped daughter... That's so eerie about the actor playing the suicidal guy committing suicide himself, like when they cast Griffin Dunne as a guy who strangled all those women and his sister had been strangled in real life? A little too much life imitating art, or vice-versa. Overall, it was a good ep, but I really dislike the whole "and now here's a piece of information you never knew that totally turns the whole case!" with Donny's green tea and trips to the bathroom...it just seemed a little convenient. I much prefer piecing together odd pieces of physical evidence as opposed to "the startling 11th hour deduction!", both starring Bobby Goren. However, I enjoyed the return of Bobby's dance moves (unseen since "Jones"!) and the choreography of the interrogation room scene where he "danced" with Donny. How he pushed that table and kicked the chair aside was so fluid. Made me wonder if VDO has stage/dance training. Edited January 19, 2015 by Eolivet 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 January 19, 2015 Author Share January 19, 2015 However, I enjoyed the return of Bobby's dance moves (unseen since "Jones"!) and the choreography of the interrogation room scene where he "danced" with Donny. How he pushed that table and kicked the chair aside was so fluid. Made me wonder if VDO has stage/dance training. I wondered the same thing. Either way, VDO does seem like a pretty good dancer. And I always made the eerie Griffin Dunne analogy but not the one with Charles Rocket which makes me feel dumb. But that is very, very creepy. And I also do get confused with the similar titles of "Pas De Deux" and "Folie A Deux", so it's nice not to be alone there. :-) 1 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum March 26, 2015 Share March 26, 2015 I think it was in this season, as I vaguely remember Bishop being with Goren, for some reason, but which episode ended with the daughter who'd committed a murder and was going to be hauled off to spend her birthday in lockup, with neither of her inattentive parents seeming willing to go down to see her after she was arrested in front of both of them? Link to comment
Maherjunkie March 26, 2015 Share March 26, 2015 Shrink Wrapped. It was an Eames episode. Link to comment
WendyCR72 March 26, 2015 Author Share March 26, 2015 Shrink Wrapped. It was an Eames episode. Yeah, those "parents" were a piece of work, complete with the hubby (I think it was him) urinating on the wife's desk. Charming. 2 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum March 26, 2015 Share March 26, 2015 Yeah, those "parents" were a piece of work, complete with the hubby (I think it was him) urinating on the wife's desk. Charming. Oh, they were still married? I also vaguely remember them being exes. Link to comment
WendyCR72 March 26, 2015 Author Share March 26, 2015 Oh, they were still married? I also vaguely remember them being exes. Nope, they were still married. Remember the scene when they came home from some opera or play and their daughter was trying to talk to them and they kept taking potshots at each other? And there was the scene where the hubby wanted wifey to have him locked up on a psychiatric hold because he was a suspect, and she told him she couldn't sign the papers because she was his wife. But they should have been exes. Maybe their kid would have had a chance to be normal then. 5 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum March 27, 2015 Share March 27, 2015 (edited) Nope, they were still married. Remember the scene when they came home from some opera or play and their daughter was trying to talk to them and they kept taking potshots at each other? And there was the scene where the hubby wanted wifey to have him locked up on a psychiatric hold because he was a suspect, and she told him she couldn't sign the papers because she was his wife. But they should have been exes. Maybe their kid would have had a chance to be normal then. I pay little attention to the one-pair seasons, so no, I don't remember those scenes. Edited March 27, 2015 by Donny Ketchum Link to comment
WendyCR72 July 1, 2015 Author Share July 1, 2015 Awww. :-P Watching F.P.S. on MyNetwork and there was the "Eames would have known" bit to Bishop and then throwing the paper in frustration at Eames' empty chair. Glad the show did show Bobby appreciated her, even if that was rare. Link to comment
Maherjunkie July 1, 2015 Share July 1, 2015 I thought he was being a B to Bishop. Of course she's not gonna know, dumbass, she doesn't know your history. 4 Link to comment
WendyCR72 July 2, 2015 Author Share July 2, 2015 I thought he was being a B to Bishop. Of course she's not gonna know, dumbass, she doesn't know your history. Well, yeah. :-) But Bobby is odd on a good day and I think he was just glad Eames "got" him, so his frustration mounted since no one else did. Not to say he wasn't being an ass, but at least I got why. Also felt kind of badly for him at the end of "Mad Hops" right after, when he told Bishop that he lost his love of basketball because he didn't get what he wanted/needed (i.e. his father [the guy who he thought was his dad, anyway] to take an interest in him). While I was glad to have Eames back, it's funny how no one mentioned Bishop at all in those first few episodes upon Eames' return. Just...one episode was Bishop...the next is Eames. Then again, no mention was made of Falacci once Wheeler returned either, right? So I guess that was typical of the show. 1 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum July 4, 2015 Share July 4, 2015 (edited) I thought he was being a B to Bishop. Of course she's not gonna know, dumbass, she doesn't know your history. I remember when Goren put together the perp's motive: "He misses his partner." Yes, it referred to the perp, but it referred to his own frustration of Eames not being there, too. Something I'd have found touching if Bishop weren't sitting right there with him, looking very hurt and sad, to boot. So I agree with @Maherjunkie that Goren was being a major asshole in that moment. I'm sorry, @WendyCR72, but he was. Full-on. Edited July 5, 2015 by Donny Ketchum 1 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 July 5, 2015 Author Share July 5, 2015 I remember when Goren put together the perp's motive: "He misses his partner." Yes, it referred to the perp, but it referred to his own frustration of Eames not being there, too. Something I'd have found touching if Bishop weren't sitting right there with him, looking very hurt and sad, to boot. So I agree with @Maherjunkie that Goren was being a major asshole in that moment. I'm sorry, @WendyCR72, but he was. Full-on. Eh, it's cool. :-) Funny how I never noticed that parallel, though. Sometimes I wonder if KE had decided to be a full-time mom if maybe Bishop would have remained and Bobby would have softened. But can anyone picture Bishop dealing with S6-8 Bobby as well as Alex did? (Obviously I'm glad Eames came back, so glad. But I do wonder if anyone else could have connected with Bobby since he was so odd and non-linear.) Which makes me wonder: Why did he choose to be a cop since it seems to require teamwork and isn't a solitary career? Then again, as I've said before, Early Bobby seemed fairly together. Why change that? So both CI and SVU could revel in dysfunction junction? (I can just see Goren, Stabler, and Logan in group therapy with Eames, Benson, and Wheeler along for the ride. With Huang or Gyson needing help themselves before it was all over!) Scared yet? :-) 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 August 1, 2015 Author Share August 1, 2015 "A Murderer Among Us" is on ION now, and Lena, the victim (who was Jewish and was trying to frame her Anti-Semite hubby due to crimes he did commit)...I realize the show said she offed herself, but the amount of blood always did make me wonder just what the hell she did to herself. But the body was especially bloody for a frame up. (But I do like the crazed pipe swinging.) Link to comment
WendyCR72 August 26, 2015 Author Share August 26, 2015 I still don't know whether to feel sorry for or creeped out by the boys in "Happy Family", considering one could kill their father so easily. Link to comment
cooksdelight August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 The kid never would have killed his father had his mother not been lying to him. Saying Daddy would send them back to the orphanage. I lay all the blame at her feet. 5 Link to comment
Spartan Girl August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 The kid never would have killed his father had his mother not been lying to him. Saying Daddy would send them back to the orphanage. I lay all the blame at her feet. Seriously. She KNEW they were psychologically messed up from that orphanage. Even if she was just scaring them so that they'd be on her side, who fucking does that to children?! 4 Link to comment
cooksdelight August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 Or telling them that the cell phones their dad gave them so they could call him would give them brain cancer (or whatever it was she told them to make them throw the phones away). Link to comment
WendyCR72 August 27, 2015 Author Share August 27, 2015 Seriously. She KNEW they were psychologically messed up from that orphanage. Even if she was just scaring them so that they'd be on her side, who fucking does that to children?! Well, their horror of a mother, that's who! I guess it was supposed to be karma that she had a terminal illness in the end, but she really messed those kids up. And how ironic: When she passes, the kids will once more be orphans. 2 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum August 27, 2015 Share August 27, 2015 I guess it was supposed to be karma that she had a terminal illness in the end, but she really messed those kids up. And how ironic: When she passes, the kids will once more be orphans. Wait, wait, wait. Been a while since I've seen that episode. She mentioned having a terminal illness? What was it? 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight August 27, 2015 Share August 27, 2015 She had cancer, but told the maid and the kids it was just anemia. The detectives figured it out based on the meds in the small refrigerator in her bedroom. 2 Link to comment
Spartan Girl August 27, 2015 Share August 27, 2015 She had cancer? I must have missed that. Oh well, if anyone deserved a slow painful death, it was her. 2 Link to comment
cooksdelight August 27, 2015 Share August 27, 2015 I think it was bone cancer, which was why she had trouble going up the stairs and why she could never have been strong enough to kill her husband. The meds she had were to counter the effects of chemotherapy. And something to help with her blood count. My late aunt had the same thing so that's why it sticks in my mind what meds she was taking and why. 1 Link to comment
Maherjunkie August 27, 2015 Share August 27, 2015 She had a great head of hair for someone so sick. Link to comment
WendyCR72 August 27, 2015 Author Share August 27, 2015 She had cancer? I must have missed that. Oh well, if anyone deserved a slow painful death, it was her. As evil as this may sound out of context (ha!), I agree. If she hadn't used her bitterness against her ex to poison their kids against him, there likely would have been no murder to begin with. She had a great head of hair for someone so sick. The magic of illness, TV style! Come to think of it, Goren's mom didn't look so bad in S6, either. But at least it did look like Rita Moreno did lose weight for the role. 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight August 28, 2015 Share August 28, 2015 When my aunt had the bone cancer (cannot remember the exact name of it, the type, it was what Robin Roberts had and survived), she never lost any of her hair. Everyone's different, I guess. Link to comment
WendyCR72 August 28, 2015 Author Share August 28, 2015 When my aunt had the bone cancer (cannot remember the exact name of it, the type, it was what Robin Roberts had and survived), she never lost any of her hair. Everyone's different, I guess. First of all, I'm very sorry about your aunt, cooks. And I have also heard that there is a percentage of people who do not lose their hair during treatment. It's rare, but it happens. Or doesn't, as the case may be! 2 Link to comment
cooksdelight August 28, 2015 Share August 28, 2015 "Pas de Deux" was on WE today. I didn't know it was Charles Rocket's last role. He played Johnny, the cancer-riddled bank robber mastermind. He was found dead in a field near his Connecticut home on October 7, 2005, his throat had been cut. He was 56 years old. The state medical examiner later ruled the death a suicide. 1 Link to comment
Spartan Girl August 29, 2015 Share August 29, 2015 How eerily ironic... I still cannot stand that idiot ninnybitch Margie. I still can't believe that when Goren asked her why she left her husband to be a criminal, she had the gall to say "That's between me and my husband" after she left him and kids without so much as a note. It ain't between the two of you when he has no idea what's going on, lady! 2 Link to comment
WendyCR72 August 29, 2015 Author Share August 29, 2015 How eerily ironic... I still cannot stand that idiot ninnybitch Margie. I still can't believe that when Goren asked her why she left her husband to be a criminal, she had the gall to say "That's between me and my husband" after she left him and kids without so much as a note. It ain't between the two of you when he has no idea what's going on, lady! What's even worse is her husband got her an attorney! Screw that. Whether they had a kid or not, he should have let her fry. Makes him look like a bonafide wimp. Maybe they deserved each other. Makes me wonder how their own kid turned out! 1 Link to comment
Spartan Girl August 29, 2015 Share August 29, 2015 Well, since we all like to imagine that the wife of the douchebag that basically let landsharks kidnap her and their daughters took the kids and left him, maybe we can imagine that Margie's husband kicked her ass to the curb once the dust settled. 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight August 29, 2015 Share August 29, 2015 Margie's husband struck me as Mr. Milquetoast, and I doubt he changed. It's why she was so bored, depressed and empty. 2 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum August 30, 2015 Share August 30, 2015 (edited) I always just assumed that her husband (was he ever even seen in that episode, at any point?) sympathized with her or at least rationalized her actions as being brainwashed by the guy (and when you think about it, she kind of was), and that was why he was willing to forgive her. Edited August 30, 2015 by Donny Ketchum 2 Link to comment
cooksdelight August 30, 2015 Share August 30, 2015 Yes, he was in the episode. Goren and Eames first met him at his office, and asked him about the purse she was carrying, among other questions, about her dance classes (which he scoffed at, said she'd never do something like that). Later, they came to the home and searched through their bedroom, finding the brochures for Mexico and that she'd taken her suitcase. The husband said she told him she'd bought the purse at a church yard sale. Then they searched the van and found the chemicals, asking the husband if his wife gambled (the rolls of quarters in the console) or if they had a cat (the ammonia smell). He was a balding beige-looking guy. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 August 31, 2015 Author Share August 31, 2015 Yes, he was in the episode. Goren and Eames first met him at his office, and asked him about the purse she was carrying, among other questions, about her dance classes (which he scoffed at, said she'd never do something like that). Later, they came to the home and searched through their bedroom, finding the brochures for Mexico and that she'd taken her suitcase. The husband said she told him she'd bought the purse at a church yard sale. Then they searched the van and found the chemicals, asking the husband if his wife gambled (the rolls of quarters in the console) or if they had a cat (the ammonia smell). He was a balding beige-looking guy. Yeah. He seemed too willing to explain everything away. He did seem dismissive of Margie, but he was very bland character wise. 1 Link to comment
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